306 replies to this topic

[Olef]

Just completed a tough bounty. I had composing pots, they had even higher level chest pots. They had incredible stats. It took me a while to figure out how to kill them some of the time. Eventually, I was able to clear. It was a lot of fun and rewarding. Composing pots are fine the way they are. Please don't ruin it by making changes. Thanks 

you used epic skills to beat another player with epic skills, this is the same thing we keep saying

 

Unless Super pots are used against other Super pots it's disingenuous to claim it's challenging to battle an opponent in PvP.

 

for the last month you have been on the ladder with the same setup and always buffed with epic skills (composing) to beat everyone, pvpers with buffs who know how to pvp for years do not stand a chance against a non pvper with epic skills, for one month you are at first place on the ladder because of those epic skills (composing)

nobody stands a chance against your epic skills (composing), look at the pvp rating difference

 

you always use epic skills (composing) with these epic stats

 

for one month you keep farming everyone in your range for prestige (you have 5,029 prestige) and today you hit me again

and when you get posted, the bounties expire because of your epic skills (composing)

 

when I get attacked I always hit back but to beat your epic skills I have to use epic skills too, I am not a composer, I do not care about composing, I pvp but with my buffs at level 175 pvpers will never stand a chance against non pvpers with epic skills who try pvp for the first time, this does not seem right

 

hoofmaster, do you want pvp to be pay to win? where players (even players who do not know how to pvp) with epic skills have the win button in pvp over pvpers who know how to pvp?

or do you want pvp to be how it was before composing? where pvp is determined by understanding which different setups to use and understanding what skills to use?

 

it is your game and you can see how these players have become addicted to their win button and are not willing to let go of it

 

this is my fourth time asking the same question to leos3000 and I did not get an answer, I will use size 24 and orange color for you to see the question, impossible for you to not see it now

 

leos3000, did you use epic skills in seasons?

Edited by Olef, 25 March 2017 - 05:49.

[Gutie]

Actually the bounty I posted of her and the other ones usually get cleared, so no olef, stop making things up. 

[Raku]

you used epic skills to beat another player with epic skills, this is the same thing we keep saying

 

when I get attacked I always hit back but to beat your epic skills I have to use epic skills too, I am not a composer, I do not care about composing, I pvp but with my buffs at level 175 pvpers will never stand a chance against non pvpers with epic skills who try pvp for the first time, this does not seem right

 

 

This part says a lot to me. You chose not to compose or use composing potions then complain when you can't beat someone who does. This is like complaining that I can't beat someone who uses buffs when I chose not to use them. Quit limiting yourselves. 

 

That ladder screenshot you posted. I just looked and four people were sitting in epics. Five people weren't even buffed. You say Misstep is always buffed so it sounds to me like they are the only one making an effort. I bet if everyone else on the ladder made that same effort then it would look a bit different. 

[lapdragon]

This part says a lot to me. You chose not to compose or use composing potions then complain when you can't beat someone who does. This is like complaining that I can't beat someone who uses buffs when I chose not to use them. Quit limiting yourselves. 

 

That ladder screenshot you posted. I just looked and four people were sitting in epics. Five people weren't even buffed. You say Misstep is always buffed so it sounds to me like they are the only one making an effort. I bet if everyone else on the ladder made that same effort then it would look a bit different. 

[mary4ever]

I am grateful to everyone who is trying to promote "fair, strategic and competitive PvP gameplay" (like the OP from wootpk3r) BUT I am most grateful to those who are against it & want EPIC skills (OP Composing) to stay in PvP because their own posts have proven 2 things:

1st)

I know that some of you have become addicted to your win-button and you're not willing to let it go

regardless of the negative effect they have on PvP (PvP Ladder, GvG, normal PvP, BB, relic battles) !!!

 

2nd)

Unless Super pots are used against other Super pots it's disingenuous to claim it's challenging to battle an opponent in PvP.

 

if they really wanted to make a "valid" point / persuade hoof then they would have at least tried to go up with only buffs at lvl 175 against EPIC Skills to somehow try to prove that the one with the EPIC skills does not have an overwhelmig advantage / almost WIN - Button against the one with only buffs at lvl 175 !!!

it really does not take a genius to see that the value 350 - 580 (=EPIC skills) is greater than the value 175 (=buffs) !!!

 

ps: I did not quote anyone to avoid any bickering

[mary4ever]

at this point I want to copy & paste (can not quote because the topic there got locked) an excellent post from a well known PvPer (his own experience): (red = hoof, yellow = bilops)

Hoofmaster, on 08 Jul 2016 - 22:28, said:

Note this is just a question based on what I've been reading. Is the main issue here that you feel the high level composed potions have an adverse affect on PvP? And a solution to this would be to restrict (or cap) some of the potions levels when using in PvP?

bilops Posted 03 August 2016 - 17:36

before I start, I am a 60 composer, was one of the first 10 to reach that level, until level 58 I bought my frags from farmers at 80-100 frags / 1 fsp, did global events every time with global booster 863, spent over 15k fsps to level composing, buy frags from farmers and 100s of frag stashes, I had 3 composing bugs that destroyed and took 1000s of my frags and I lost all my SE frags because of this bugs and HCS had to fix the bugs 3 times for me but never returned any lost frags back to me (biggrim can prove this, we talked many times about it)

 

last year after I got level 60 composer I started to pvp

 

pvp ladder band

there was a player who was always buffed with composing pots the whole time for 2 months, he always got first place after reset, I joined the ladder band and used my composing potions, for 1 month I got first place every time, the other composed player did not know how to pvp, only to keep himself with composing potions 24 / 7, I always got first place, he alwas got second place and the others in our band never hit us, they gave up because they had no chance against our overpowered composing skills, they only had 175 buffs lol

pvp activity only increased for me (and the players who used composing too)

for the others pvp activity decreased, they knew they did not stand a chance against our stats

 

pvp

2-3 weeks I hit for gold and prestige, won 100% of my battles with composing pots, less that 5% hit back but everyone lost against my composing pots

pvp activity only increased for me (using composing pots)

for the others pvp activity decreased

 

pvp bounty board

3 weeks there were bounties on me, more than 60 bounties expired, players stopped placing bounties on me because they would expire too, many bounty hunters took my bounties but nobody was able to clear one bounty, all expired, only 1 player started using epic global skills against me, after 20 straight losses he used composing potions too and after 2 hours he gave up, he won 4 times (everytime with 2 or more luck skills activate together), I deleveled many players defending on the BB, I never posted anyone, they lost enough against my composing skills

pvp activity only increased for me (using composing pots)

for the others pvp activity decreased

 

gvg

for 1 month I won all gvg attacks, I hit offline, online, unbuffed, fully buffed, in epics, in pvp setup, did not matter, I hit everyone in my range, I could not lose with composing pots against them and never lost, nobody attacked me for 1 month while I stayed in composing, after I stopped using composing pots gvgers started attacking me again

gvg activity only increased for me (using composing pots)

 

that was the last time I did any pvp, I retired from pvp, a pvp / gvg system where composing players have a win button against players who use 175 buffs, for gvg a composing player can easy win against a pvp setup players with full buffs, reason why many guilds stopped buffing members in gvg, this year and last year I was always attacked by a player with composing pots (ke, sh, coordinated attack, flinch,...........), a pvp / gvg system where there is no challenge

 

mary posted 1 or 2 years ago for composing activate only in pve or maximum level of composing in pvp be at 200

 

Hoofmaster, on 08 Jul 2016 - 22:28, said:

Is the main issue here that you feel the high level composed potions have an adverse affect on PvP?

yes, they do, but not only on pvp, gvg and bounty board too

 

Hoofmaster, on 08 Jul 2016 - 22:28, said:

And a solution to this would be to restrict (or cap) some of the potions levels when using in PvP?

in my opinion it is best to cap the potions at 200, players can have a better and fairer chance when they use buffs at 175 to 192 against them

 

seeing things live would be best for you hoof

look at gvg attacker when they attack, most of them use composing pots because it is safer, defender has no to little chance against them

look at the BB, gvg, pvp pladder when players use composing pots how easy they beat the other targets

 

this forum post is for hoof, answered his question here

how are you hoof, everything alright with you / family / company?

 

------------------------------ END ----------------------

 

the complete post can be found there:

https://forums.hunte...=11#entry966566

[mary4ever]

Its not just about composing.

Composing potions aren't even with the worst offenders in this overpowered potion tragedy, they are just the most easily accessible.

I agree with you BUT because OP Composing are the most easily accessible (like you said) they are IMO the most "dangerous" ones !!!

 

if I may I will try to explain (using my experience), 1st half will be about donation & GE chests and the 2nd half will be about OP Composing:

 

1st) against donation & GE chests

as many know I used to play the PvP Ladder for years without opting-out once during that time BEFORE Composing was released (not during XP Events, Special Events or even to level up, never) !!!

back then it was buffs lvl 175 VS buffs lvl 175, I had many different setups & once a new set was released I had to change my setups to adapt

the only "problem" I faced back then was when a player used a donation chest &-/ or a GE chest !!! the donation chests were not as bad to battle against as the GE chests because the donation chests only had 1-2 EPIC PvP skills (for EXAMPLE: Seafarers Chest with SH 550 & LD550 with a duration of 120 min OR the Thornvine Chest with Berserk400 & LD500 with a duration of 180 min), depending on my opponents setup & PvP experience I could still beat him

it got realy problematic when someone used GE chests (KE525, Flinch525, Terrorize525, SH525, CoA525, CoD525, ...... with a duration of 240 min), hardly any chance to beat those EPIC Skills unless some LUCK skills activate or just hoping the opponent would keep getting deflected until they expire

 

donation chests & GE chests are very limited in numbers ("certain amounts" obtainable during "events" so a player could only hide behind them for a short time !!!

 

2nd) against OP Composing

much later after Composing was released I joined the PvP Ladder again & there was 1 player FULLY composed 24/7 & NEVER changed his setup, he had 1 single PvP setup the WHOLE time, always the same one & always stayed at 1st place !!! I tried to PvP with my measly buffs at lvl 175 BUT I ended up like the other ones in my band, I hardly stood any chance against his EPIC skills, my years of PvP experience had ZERO affect against a player who tried PvP for he 1st time with the help of 1 single setup & OP composing !!!

I knew that composing was giving players an advantage BUT NEVER would I have thought how ridiculously powerful they trully were !!! I had many loses against him & only managed to win 2 times (both due to some LUCK skills activating for me)

at that time my composing was very low so I ordered some from a friend

AFTER I used OP composing too PvP took a 180° for both of us, I kept winning against him because NOW my years of PvP experience actually mattered since both of us were using EQUAL skill levels !!! I took the #1 spot from him easily since he really could not PvP at all & the other PvP Ladder Participants were out our mercy, NONE of them (they kept using buffs at lvl 175) managed to ever beat me once while I was using OP Composing !!!

shortly I opted-out & never returned to the PvP Ladder, for ME this was not PvP at all, from then I did some PvP on the BB & if my opponent used OP Composing then I had to use (or better said was forced) to use OP Composing too to be able to compete against him / her !!!

 

OP Compsing are almost "unlimited" in numbers (many ways to get frags from farming while hunting, LE Events, Chomper Events, ALL Global Events, realm chests, .....) so a player could hide behind them for a very long time !!!

 

as proof: many of us have seen players staying buffed with OP composing 24/7 for weeks, even for months !!!

 

+ let us not forget that those OP skills HUGELY affect PvP Ladder, GvG, normal PvP, BB, relic battles !!!

 

ps: some of you may remember how the skill Sealed worked when it was 1st released (Sealed used to negate ALL your opponents skills during combat), way TOO powerful !!!

the "current" Sealed we know negates only 2 skills during combat !!!

the "old" Sealed used to be called a WIN-BUTTON & thus had to be changed !!!

Edited by mary4ever, 26 March 2017 - 05:13.

[Pardoux]

IF these potions are overpowered in ANY facet of the game, then they're overpowered in ALL facets of the game.

 

 

So, simply,

 

NUKE 'em in ALL facets or leave 'em alone

 

It's really that simple

[Mister Doom]

Well, they ARE massively overpowered Pardoux, so I guess that leaves only the one option then...

Edited by Mister Doom, 26 March 2017 - 09:37.

[Pardoux]

Well, they ARE massively overpowered Pardoux, so I guess that leaves only the one option then...

 

They are - but for those of us that have devoted the time and effort TO get to Level 60 should get something in return - new buff potions, for instance.

 

Then, I'm fine with 'em being nuked across the board ..

[Chooma123]

I think lowering the level caps would be a good start eg keen edge to 250

[Mister Doom]

They are - but for those of us that have devoted the time and effort TO get to Level 60 should get something in return - new buff potions, for instance.

 

Then, I'm fine with 'em being nuked across the board ..

 

Of course, new 'well balanced' composing only potions could be introduced to compensate.

Because players have worked hard to level up composing though, doesn't translate that overpowered stuff should remain. That is equal to saying, "Put enough effort in and it is okay to break the game." Which is a little silly, don't you think?

[Alisa]

I'm not opposed to or against composing what's done is done and we should try to work together to come to a solution.

so after reading all these comments, the only thing that comes to mind is why not have a high-level fist fight skill added to the game? I have used fist fight for defense and offense depending on the situation.

 

this is just my solution and you're free to come up with your own.

 

a high-level Invert is also nice if you're facing someone with these stats.

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[Pardoux]

I'm not opposed to or against composing what's done is done and we should try to work together to come to a solution.

so after reading all these comments, the only thing that comes to mind is why not have a high-level fist fight skill added to the game? I have used fist fight for defense and offense depending on the situation.

 

this is just my solution and you're free to come up with your own.

 

a high-level Invert is also nice if you're facing someone with these stats.

 

you mean the stats you hit me with, for the DQ yesterday, whilst I was in Epics ? LOL

[Pardoux]

Of course, new 'well balanced' composing only potions could be introduced to compensate.

Because players have worked hard to level up composing though, doesn't translate that overpowered stuff should remain. That is equal to saying, "Put enough effort in and it is okay to break the game." Which is a little silly, don't you think?

 

WE (players) put in the hard work to level up composing to Level 60

Cows broke the game by putting the too-high levels on the pots.

 

As I said, I'm happy to see 'em get nuked to bring some challenge back to the game again - but, on the flip side of that, I DO want something back in return to "compensate" (not the best word, I know), for the time and effort spent getting to EOC when the nuked potions will no longer represent that former EOC.

[yotwehc]

WE (players) put in the hard work to level up composing to Level 60

Cows broke the game by putting the too-high levels on the pots.

As I said, I'm happy to see 'em get nuked to bring some challenge back to the game again - but, on the flip side of that, I DO want something back in return to "compensate" (not the best word, I know), for the time and effort spent getting to EOC when the nuked potions will no longer represent that former EOC.

Challenge? lol. Try pvp. Try taking alisa down. That's a challenge. And to her credit, she took down another fully buffed player. That is a challenge!

Many who harp here about "OP" either don't pvp or want easy pvp with 10 straight 100 stam wins or want to "protect" their offline players from being attacked and easily beat. They don't want the challenge.

The ultimate challenge is a battle between two willing opponents who are both online and ready to duke if out. Dance! That's the most fun and challenge you will ever have in this game alas those who claim to want challenge don't really want this. They want their easy buttons. They want their guilds to fight for them. So please with the "challenge". You don't want it.

[sweetlou]

Cows broke the game by putting the too-high levels on the pots.

Och aye. Faith in a fix is low. Damage is done. Thanks to all involved.

[Pardoux]

Challenge? lol. Try pvp. Try taking alisa down. That's a challenge. And to her credit, she took down another fully buffed player. That is a challenge!

Many who harp here about "OP" either don't pvp or want easy pvp with 10 straight 100 stam wins or want to "protect" their offline players from being attacked and easily beat. They don't want the challenge.

The ultimate challenge is a battle between two willing opponents who are both online and ready to duke if out. Dance! That's the most fun and challenge you will ever have in this game alas those who claim to want challenge don't really want this. They want their easy buttons. They want their guilds to fight for them. So please with the "challenge". You don't want it.

 

My sole involvement in PvP is doing the DQ when it comes up - which I have, every single time.

 

As for the "ultimate challenge" being a battle between 2 opponents who are both online ? - ABSOLUTELY ? - but what, pray, does that have to do with potions being too high of a level ?

 

That challenge remains even if potions didn't exist and buffs were capped at L175 ...

 

And, "I don't want the challenge" ?? - Puh-Lease - don't make statements for me Chewy ... I used to love having to work out setups for hunting and SE hunting in the "good old days" - Now, there is next to no challenge, and it's missed by me and others.

[yotwehc]

My sole involvement in PvP is doing the DQ when it comes up - which I have, every single time.

As for the "ultimate challenge" being a battle between 2 opponents who are both online ? - ABSOLUTELY ? - but what, pray, does that have to do with potions being too high of a level ?

That challenge remains even if potions didn't exist and buffs were capped at L175 ...

And, "I don't want the challenge" ?? - Puh-Lease - don't make statements for me Chewy ... I used to love having to work out setups for hunting and SE hunting in the "good old days" - Now, there is next to no challenge, and it's missed by me and others.

Before the "OP" buffs, did you pvp? Are you saying hunting monsters were harder then pvp? There is your big puh-lease. You don't want challenge or you would be an avid pvpr. If you've engaged in a live battle switching gear and tweaking buffs, you would know that hitting a stationary mob that doesn't do anything is not even close to a challenge from a live player. Big deal that you do DQs. Hitting offline players is just as easy as hitting mobs. Try a live target willing and ready for your attack while cloaked. That's a challenge and one that you probably don't want cause it's too "hard"

The pots make online battles that much harder. No guaranteed wins. I enjoy them tremendously and is the best part of the game. Try it.

[tharzill]

Thank heavens I never leveled my composing skills.