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#81 ecolitan

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 05:24

...at level 208, my psionic powers left my body and I stumbled into a boot camp. I emerged several seconds later changed forever...


I am just as concerned about all the switches to soldier and mutant now as I was with all the switches to purist 100 or so levels ago. I also think it's unfortunate that it might be happening "mid change". Though HCS has been quiet so who knows.

As a soldier, I have leveled 2 levels and completed the new elite mission. I did one level with the soldier HK set. I only repaired 3 times during the entire level with intensifier 3x on. This was about 1/10 the amount of repairs I needed to do on the previous level as a purist. The rest of the time I used a FE en-r22 and level 100 HK helm add-on. I used an unupgraded level 200 soldier set and the level 205 spear. At level 210 I switched to the common rilfe drop. I hunted the elite tonight and completed that mission with this set up. Only 2 upgraded pieces of gear and the standard damage attack boosting soldier buffs + KR and corrode. I killed 25 elites and never repaired. I one hit every time WITHOUT 4 pieces of gear being upgraded. I like this class it is very effective for leveling and elite hunting. I will check out the HK tomorrow when I have more energy, but am pretty sure I can 1 hit it now that I have been able to upgrad the 200 set.


Sorry, but I really don't believe you only repaired 3 times in an entire level with ANY INT on. With INT100 you are basically requried to make 550 kills to gain a level at level 208-210. That breaks things.... You found something NO other soldier has found if you really managed that. Soldiers can go longer between repairs than purists - with both set up as well as we can manage we've figured on somewhere around twice as long with ideal setups (which most in damage is not for most levels as a soldier). As for the Elite someone with most in damage and KR gets a major damage boost over other setups - at a cost in many levels. A purist could 2-hit 27 in a row with a full psi bar atm so there's no difference except the purist could do it in 50-60 level old gear. There are differences on other elites.

I think it is asinine that now that the purists basically got chopped off at the knees that all these other classes (especially soldiers, who are clearly set up as the easiest class now) are so hostile and strongly fighting against the purists request to sort out their class. Obviously these changes do not affect you, so bashing every purist or claiming they are wanting to become overpowered is a joke, especially when it is obvious they are the least power class in the game now. As a purist with the HK set on I would randomly die if I went more than 5 or 6 deep into kills on elites with MS running. As a soldier I can kill 25 level 210 elites with unupgraded gear. How is this balanced?


First, most of the non-purists are arguing for the same thing that some purists are - go back to last week's Attunement skill (and get it working) as well as stacking uncharged shards. Other things are argued on different sides by different people. I can guarantee that purists can easily wade through this elite too. I've seen it. Way more than 5 or 6. In fact 27 can be killed with almost no danger if proper psi management is used - with 50-60 level old gear. The difference is that purists face a cost for MS for the first time. I, and many others both purist and non-purists, have agreed that this was changed too far. So, I'm not sure where you get "bashing every purist". There is a running argument with ONE purist that wants MS AND the higher stats of other classes.... In fact, one of the loudest counter voices to this purist is... a purist....



To all other classes participating in this thread, I say "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all".


No. If I see something as game breaking I'll say it about any class. In fact, I was early in this thread arguing for purists to get some stuff BACK rather than take it away. What I have argued AGAINST is merely asking for statistical equivalence while at the same time maintaining MS. This doesn't work in a general setting because MS also works in normal leveling. Attunement (old version) was created as a way for purists to get "rough equivalence" in Elite and HK hunting when needed while leaving leveling in a situation where more frequent repair (not 10x more frequent) was the cost of safe leveling with MS. The new attunement sucks. I agree. But, making it an always on skill with power anywhere close to other classes becomes too powerful. I have NEVER argued that purists are too powerful as it is this second. I think they have an interesting tradeoff for leveling and a major advantage in most Elite hunting (the 210 is a strange Elite and much safer to play against than some others have been) given the ability to run 27 shields in a psi bar. With current skills HK hunting seems overly difficult for purists but some form of MS armor boost or damage reduction combined with last week's attunement fixes that - it was a purist that got that one removed and replaced with the worthless one.

To HCS, I can say with a pretty clear perspective, through the course of your updates you have either entirely screwed up on the purist update and made it inferior to the other classes OR you have screwed up on the soldier class (and from what I can tell the other two classes as well, although not as badly) and made them entirely too strong.


Attainable damages are roughly equivalent for soldiers and cyborgs (cyborgs are higher if they get a good crushing weapon but they haven't in a while). Soldiers come with better safety in leveling while cyborgs get more suicide setups. Mutants get slightly less damage but have some damage reducing skills that might matter. In addition, mutants can use core gear other than weapon without losing any benefits. Purists get about the same damage as mutants, maybe slightly less but not much with proper skills, and the safety of MS. In addition, purists can use any gear except weapon without losing benefits. Are soldiers the easiest? Probably if set up properly. But, they aren't as safe in normal leveling or Elite hunting as purists. Purists are currently screwed in HK hunting unless a strange build is out there I haven't seen and to address that - last week's attunement (loved by many purists actually if it had worked).


ecolitan, we all know you disagree with everything said so no need to reply.


uncalled for, unneeded, un....

#82 centurion

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 05:47

Red, I am glad you like being a soldier, it is a good class. and your evolve is decently setup for being a soldier. Purist is more annoying class to play well, but not disadvantaged at all IMHO

only way to play purist is 100 % into dmg. (may be bit into att) total suicide and depend on MS. any other setup really does not make sense. I really liked old attunement, as it gave extra att/dmg which would be perfect for HK kill. Also, you do need full FE gear. keep a high def setup for initial 7 kill. then with MS, it is easy.


when I was purist from lvl 110-150 or so, it was how I played it, and I had no trouble with levelling. but I tend to optimize my stats.

Purist is supposed to be toughest to play well, and it has advantage and disadvantage. disadvantage is that levelling is bit tougher. (still 1 hit almost all mobs, except some in the 80s and 90s, which back when I played was soloable only via cyborg with 100% into dmg/suicide, which was what I ran. maybe soldiers can as well now, but those were tough levels) all other levels can be 1 hit by all classes, except it does require bit more care and good gear, not to mention good distribution of evolve..


here is my stat with all my combat CLASS BUFF running, and acidic with NO BUFFS. ideally, i could gain another 40point using different gear, but I will lose lot of other stats. (hp, armor, def) without MS, I like having decent hp/armor/def, and i consider myself pretty well optimized for all around play.

Posted Image

with KR and fulll class buff, acidic was getting about +140 dmg. vs about 240 for my focused and KR. so net difference is actually only about 100dmg. Normally, I only use class buff to hunt. almost never use KR/corrode, while I would if I as a purist.

Witout KR/corrode , I was hunting down to 70 durability at lvl 210, and I would assume that purist will be somewhere similiar. (if you can hunt your durability down to 90 or so, using repair kit is efficient)


tradeoff is elite hunt. I only normally hunt 2 days levelling and spend 3 week elite/hk hunt. elite hunt as purist is easy now. not bad for soldier though. stacking shard is really needed though to reduce annoyance. :D

#83 BigGrim

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 09:46

We will be increasing the Attunement abilities buff sometime soon, hopefully next week, possibly with the new skills.

#84 MamorukunBE

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 15:25

possibly with the new skills.

Whatever will come your of your boiling cowly minds...prepare to be flamed, gnehehe! :twisted:

#85 ss_teekill

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 17:35

We will be increasing the Attunement abilities buff sometime soon, hopefully next week, possibly with the new skills.

Thanks, hopefully this will balance out the purist with other classes.

#86 PointyHair

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 18:43

We will be increasing the Attunement abilities buff sometime soon, hopefully next week, possibly with the new skills.


I know I keep banging on about this, but is there any chance you could make it work in the meantime?

#87 MaximusGR

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 18:58

We will be increasing the Attunement abilities buff sometime soon, hopefully next week, possibly with the new skills.



Returning it back to how it was would be a good solution, as long as it works eventually :)

#88 ecolitan

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 22:12

We will be increasing the Attunement abilities buff sometime soon, hopefully next week, possibly with the new skills.



Returning it back to how it was would be a good solution, as long as it works eventually :)


The intermediary version... I hope... and, working.

#89 ss_sirona

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 22:34

@teekill
i'm still completely failing to see your point.

for leveling, your argument is that you can't be flexible because you're bound to psi weapons and sets.. well in general you don't need to be as you have MS and you just need to worry about attack and damage. look at acidic vs. centurion example.. you don't really lack attack and damage all that much.. you'll be fine in many levels with high attack/damage mobs where we'll struggle.. in rare examples where you'll need higher attack to hit the mobs, you have the option to change equipment.. if you lack HP/armor/defense for these levels you can keep your weapon and MS, and change your armor. Now your argument is the assassin bonus but believe me I have had to change and will have to change in the future my class sets to obtain defense/armor setups with core gear many times. I could be suicidal, but that's a choice and a trade-off for the class skills we get. You should realize also that, as a cyborg, if I change into a core-setup I lose the damage/attack boosts provided by my class skills as they work on class items.

for elites, i don't think any lack of damage is an issue now that you have MS working on them again.

for HK, i really don't think there should be a problem as many people did and should in the future (for future HKs) use squads for them anyways. They should not be soloable until many levels after it. And for high profit, the competition is really high around the time when a HK is first released (ie when players are around the same level as the HK). For any practical purpose, I don't see it as an issue as I have always used squads for HK hunting. If you are more interested in HKs then leveling, and want to hunt it "professionally" you may want to choose your class accordingly, because I agree that soloing vs. squading will make a difference if you hunt more than about 100 HKs..

in any case, you should see that i'm not against you/purists.. i do agree that the purists should get a stat boost to some extent but if it's in any way comparable to cyborg buffs, i will criticize it until my last mechanical breath unless

a) it does NOT work when MS is activated
B) cyborgs get defense/armor/HP boosting skills (or a free 150 evo points in HP :) ) comparable to MS.

Now I do not want the option b, as I don't want to see either cyborgs or purists this overpowered.

If you get a buff like the old attunement (which can't be used for all time leveling due to the ammo cost) or some other stat boosts that work *only* against HKs as you suggested, than I'm with you.. :)


@redmariner

please don't judge people depending on what you hear about them from other people.. it is clear from your post that you did not read most of the threads in these forums to have a clear idea about what people do/don't argue for/against. I believe if you do read the forums more, you should have a different and clearer opinion of their attitude presented here.

and yes, many of us non-purists do realize that you guys struggle a lot with damage stats. the only difference in our opinion is that we see it as a trade-off for having MS. most long-time purists however take MS as granted and argue for "equality" by having equal damage as other classes. that's what we mostly argue against, and therefore it looks as if we always argue against any purist, which isn't the case. most of us really do want a balance between classes and will also defend any purist who comes up with a legitimate argument that clearly shows that purists are at a general disadvantage (due to general mechanics, and not just a single, exceptional example). So if you have a concrete idea on what causes you to feel disadvantaged at this point please share it and i'm sure we'll see suggestions as to how it can be corrected. :)

#90 Molehunter

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 22:41

possibly with the new skills.

Whatever will come your of your boiling cowly minds...prepare to be flamed, gnehehe! :twisted:



Better yet change Hooftest into a Purist and let him debug the new skills...

#91 ecolitan

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 01:34

possibly with the new skills.

Whatever will come your of your boiling cowly minds...prepare to be flamed, gnehehe! :twisted:



Better yet change Hooftest into a Purist and let him debug the new skills...


The last time he did that the game broke. :shock:

For those that want the thread relating what happened last time hoof was a purist

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4761&hilit=purist+breaking&start=13

:P

#92 Molehunter

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 02:32

Oh...

I did not know Purist is such a jinx. I guess a class based on psi power will make everything about them mental, including the coder... :-)

#93 ss_teekill

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 07:48

Jump in just to make some clarification with sirona, no need eco to reply to this post please :)

@sirona

1st,
About Cent example (screen shot), I had a chat with him (thanks Cent :) ), asked him to change a bit of addons and weapon (HK weapons and addons don't give best atk&dmg), and VISUALLY (from his datasheet), his stats improve a bit, with around 150 points more than the compared purist. However, FOCUS DOESN'T SHOW UP IN DATASHEET! Focus works like corrod, only show in combat screen, and it adds another roughly 150 points in damage!!! The screenshot didn't show this, which is a bit of unintentional misleading I guess.
And you do read that he doesn't use KR & Corrod when leveling right? Only class buffs! No purist can do that!

2nd,

i do agree that the purists should get a stat boost to some extent but if it's in any way comparable to cyborg buffs, i will criticize it until my last mechanical breath unless
B) cyborgs get defense/armor/HP boosting skills (or a free 150 evo points in HP :) ) comparable to MS.

And here was my suggestion:
"+ Imbue (surely this is the most unwanted purist buff for now): change to give psi items boost of 0.25% item atk per point (this will get purist roughly 100 atk for lvl 200 psi). Players can use psi addon, weapon to make it up to around 150 atk."
So my suggestion was to get around 150 points bonus for purist when leveling, plus MS and it will equalize with 300++ point bonus of cyborg. I don't think your "unless" is that much different from mine, right?

For Elite, I am not arguing anything for now ;)

3rd,
For HK, this was my suggestion (back as before means consume all ammo):
"So I think I can refine my suggestion here:
+ Attunement: might want to be back as before, but with 0.3% per point added to atk & dmg. This effect can be limited to HK, Elite only (unlike cyborg skill that can be used everywhere), and around the same as Aug+Int+Overload combined."

I think I had presented my suggestion so poorly, since ... everything you said in your post matches with mine :)

#94 centurion

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 13:37

if you read my posts, I do take calculation of focus into play. please do not take me out of context. you also did not add +50 or so that purist get already from class buff. not to mention extra 40 from KR as well as the difference in set. game is not only about att/dmg. you will not be getting soldier stat with MS. other class cannot play true suicide. only purist can.


the purist set on the average have 150 pt less in armor and def compared to other class, since purist do not need those stat in evolve. not to mention the 150 in hp. so that is your 300pt argument.


MS= 0 DEF+ 0 ARMOR + 0 HP +400 evolve in dmg +96 from KR, set = -75 armor-75 def +150 dmg +50 class buff total 696 dmg

soldier = +150hp +250dmg +60 from KR +300dmg +90 att from class buff. =610 dmg +90 att

hardly the 300 difference about same cbt stat

#95 ecolitan

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 13:54

Jump in just to make some clarification with sirona, no need eco to reply to this post please :)


Why - is this a private forum? Did I miss the "invite only" directions?

(or a free 150 evo points in HP :) ) comparable to MS.


No, it really isn't. At all. In any way shape or form.

Imbue (surely this is the most unwanted purist buff for now): change to give psi items boost of 0.25% item atk per point (this will get purist roughly 100 atk for lvl 200 psi). Players can use psi addon, weapon to make it up to around 150 atk."
So my suggestion was to get around 150 points bonus for purist when leveling, plus MS and it will equalize with 300++ point bonus of cyborg. I don't think your "unless" is that much different from mine, right?


First, .25% per point would almost always generate the 150 (or more) bonus as you've already pointed out that we should "stop talking about purists not using MS". So, can we agree talking about a purist not using a psi weapon is just as invalid?

Second, if all you want is the attack and not damage I have less of an issue (less, not no issue but less). However, all classes face choices of where to place EVO points. Purists, in essense, can choose between only 2 stats. I have never seen a purist in my faction lacking attack in any level for many months.

For Elite, I am not arguing anything for now ;)


You should. A 3-shot MS shield that allows solo killing 27 Elites from one Psi bar (more if you stretch it with a just a few energy expended) is a problem. Not a gigantic issue for an Elite that many classes can 1-shot kill. But, even if HCS designs an Elite that has massive attack and damage and has the HP(and arm but not necessary) to guarantee a 2-shot kill this will remain true. So, if they do that (why shouldn't we assume it's coming) other classes will be unable to solo yet purist will be able to roll through 27 (or more) on one Psi bar and not even need best gear to do it. This is why I comment on these things. A single MS shield on Elites wouldn't be a disruptive advantage. It would still be an advantage on all current Elites and certainly a major one in future Elites. But it wouldn't be virtually unending. Be clear on this - by arguing that purists should have a 1-shot MS shield on Elites I am arguing that purists should continue to have an advantage in this game going forward. I am just limiting it to something I don't think is game-breakingly unfair.

For HK, this was my suggestion (back as before means consume all ammo):
"So I think I can refine my suggestion here:
+ Attunement: might want to be back as before, but with 0.3% per point added to atk & dmg.


This is one where devs should be able to figure out what will give more equal footing going forward. If the MS shield fails after 1 use on HK and that use either reduces damage some or ups armor some then all that is needed is something that evens out the HK game. Of course, one could use attunement elsewhere but that is less likely. Should that be .3% instead of .2%? From what I could tell .2% seemed to give everything needed to reach the attack and damage numbers of other classes (rough round numbers) and solo the HK just like the others. If it's made .3% instead of .2% while consuming all ammo I have no real issue if it is thought out properly. My opposition to attunement (or any other type of psi buff that ups stats) has always been with the "always on" variety of skills. This disrupts the tradeoff for using MS.

However, if .2% gets the parity on HK (really the reason for attunement - which is kind of a cool way to have the buff, specifically for 1 side-game to even out playing field...) then .3% isn't needed. Now, this needs to be brought forward rather than merely applied to the 190 HK. On the 190 HK the .2% got rough equivalence in result. If it will take .25% or .3% to get that in the future fine. So long as it is an ammo consumer it will keep it from disrupting the cost-benefit from using MS.

#96 ss_teekill

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 18:39

@cent

you also did not add +50 or so that purist get already from class buff

I didn't include Psionic Dart since I don't want to make a big mess out of the addition in calculation of port skills (cyborg), or Marksman and Weapon Specialist (soldier) (pretty sure those cyborg & soldier tiny class buffs still outweight Psionic Dart). I only try to compare the significant buffs. But that's a very nice observation :).

For the KR difference, (this might be a bit complicated, please bare with me), we have core buffs: strike, KR, Internal Reserves, all add 20% (lvl 100) per point to atk, dmg, hp. Hence, as long as player going only for atk (x points), dmg (y points) and hp (z points) ONLY, then the bonus total is:
20%x + 20%y + 20%z = 20%(x+y+z) = 20% * 400 = 80, the same for all classes.
Hence, if we take into account KR difference, then we should take IR into account as well, so the assumption of "150HP into evol point" should be "137HP into evol point, plus IR to make 150HP in evol point"
Enough for maths :), my point here is that the KR difference will be canceled out with other 0.2% buffs (with a WEAK assumption of players only add points in atk, dmg and HP).
And personally I really admire your detail investigation here ;)

the purist set on the average have 150 pt less in armor and def compared to other class

This is the new idea that I haven't really investigate :). I haven't put this into consideration due to the hope of their equality (and my laziness :D). So I have a look at those Elite & HK sets from the Ult. Guide, and ... I am not sure where do you get 150 points!!!!
My observation (item no craft, no engineer, but have the same number of stats, so that's ok, right?), compare on the sum of atk + dmg:
+ set lvl 150, purist (best) beats next best by 50 points
+ set lvl 170, purist (3rd) loses to soldier by 35 points
+ set lvl 180, purist (best) beats next best by 30 points
+ set lvl 190 Elite, purist (best) beats next best by 30 points
+ set lvl 190 HK, purist (best) beats next best by 40 points
+ set lvl 200 Elite, purist (best) beats next best by 40 points
I would assume something wrong about lvl 170 (my calculation or the stats itself), but what I see is the trend of purist sets beat other sets by 40 points. It is not 150 as you claim. Anyways, I am sure that cows know about this and will take this into account when making the new modification.

So to cancel out the purist class buff you mentioned, cancel out the KR difference, take into account the set difference, I would say that:
+ purist: MS + 40 (set difference)
+ cyborg, soldier: 310 points from class buffs
So assume you satisfy with 150HP for replacing the MS, I still think about 110++ point bonus for purist :), providing that the purist sets KEEP the trend of more atk+dmg than other class, and no STRANGE thing like lvl 170 :).

@eco
I would advice you to BE EXTRA CAREFUL when quoting:

(or a free 150 evo points in HP :) ) comparable to MS.

Please read again to see who said that!
And why I don't need your input from my previous post? Because I have almost NOTHING new there, I just try to show sirona that his/her idea is almost the same as mine through out this thread. And ALL my previous post have already more than enough of your reply already I must say :). However, I see you have some changes in your thought to agree with my suggestion that previously you totally went against, that's a good sight for me ;)

And here is my list of doom in case you still don't know why MS vs Elite is not my concern now:
+ get purist better
+ purist better? if yes, now get them on par with the overpower soldiers
+ find out how can soldiers be overpowered so much and no one beat them down like eco beating down cyborg & purist :)
+ get eco out of my post as much as possible
+ consider MS vs Elite
(just kidding :P)

#97 RJEM

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 18:48

Teekill,

The vast majority of your analysis is flawed. As a soldier I don't have all my points in HP, Damage and Attack. As a Purist you have less than 30 not in Attack or Damage. How can you seriously say the effects of KR are the same. Internal Reserves is almost never used in most setups. Strike isn't all that needed in this game - damage drops too low before attack does in most cases. To be honest I think you're blinded by your own numbers.

There are problems with the purist class. I've posted about them in this thread and others, and still maintain they need to be changed. As of this moment statistics are not amongst them.

RJEM

#98 ecolitan

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 18:56

[quote name="teekill"]@eco
I would advice you to BE EXTRA CAREFUL when quoting:
[quote name="ecolitan"][quote name="teekill"](or a free 150 evo points in HP :) ) comparable to MS.[/quote][/quote]
Please read again to see who said that![/quote]

You.

Here, among many other posts:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6369&start=54


[quote name="teekill"]And why I don't need your input from my previous post? Because I have almost NOTHING new there,

However, I see you have some changes in your thought to agree with my suggestion that previously you totally went against, that's a good sight for me ;)[/quote]

First - tough, if someone is wrong as often as... Well, I'll keep trying to correct.

Second - I have not changed my mind at all. In fact, I've been saying this for MONTHS not days. My story, unlike some, has never radically changed on this. The VERY first time MS came up I was saying this.

[quote name="teekill"]And here is my list of doom in case you still don't know why MS vs Elite is not my concern now:
+ get purist better[/quote][/quote]

Yeah, I'll ignore the inappropriate part below that.

You don't think MS vs. Elite is an issue because it gives an incredible overpowering advantage to purists. I don't expect you to argue for equality....

As for getting purist better... It was probably one teeny tweak from being on par after the first of the last two changes (allowing MS to work fully for 1 Elite instead of the 10% damage). The problem is you want the purist to be BETTER, not equal. As for "overpowering", cyborgs have the highest attainable damage in the game if they get a crushing weapon. cyborgs have the highest attainable attack in the game. Even if they had .15% on add-ons this would be true (might be about the same in damage but higher attack). Mutants are hard to read with new skills - it's not in attack or damage (HINT HINT HINT there are 2 other stats you seem to think don't matter, that's fine as a purist but don't try to bring that warped logic to other classes) so the impact needs to be looked at in combat results not in the stats. Purist - I've said a million times what I think. Hasn't really changed since June or whenever that was....

#99 ss_teekill

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 19:38

Teekill,

The vast majority of your analysis is flawed. As a soldier I don't have all my points in HP, Damage and Attack. As a Purist you have less than 30 not in Attack or Damage. How can you seriously say the effects of KR are the same. Internal Reserves is almost never used in most setups. Strike isn't all that needed in this game - damage drops too low before attack does in most cases. To be honest I think you're blinded by your own numbers.

There are problems with the purist class. I've posted about them in this thread and others, and still maintain they need to be changed. As of this moment statistics are not amongst them.

RJEM


There will be never a correct analysis since each players have their own setup. That's why I have a large margin when assuming 150 HP to compare to MS (most players have less than 100HP in evol points). And talking about def, any class will need def, if you want def so you won't be hit, purists want def as well. No one want to get hit at all!
"Strike isn't all that needed in this game", "damage drops too low before attack does in most cases" --> then I really don't understand why r u against me when I ask atk for my class? Or should I ask for all atk class buffs remove instead? Btw, do you see people suggesting purists to have all dmg setup (mean 0 atk setup)? And you have 100++ in evol atk and then all the buffs? Not sure what you think but it is really funny for me there!!!
A bit copying ahead ^_^ "To be honest I think you're blinded by your own" evolution setup and fail to see the bigger picture of each class!


@eco

@eco
I would advice you to BE EXTRA CAREFUL when quoting:

teekill:(or a free 150 evo points in HP :) ) comparable to MS.

Please read again to see who said that!

You.

Here, among many other posts:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6369&start=54

(edit a bit since "You may embed only 3 quotes within each other.")

Or from here, in sirona post viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6369&start=88
Or you must have paraphrased my words and happened to match sirona's word-by-word accidentally ;) ^_^

First - tough, if someone is wrong as often as... Well, I'll keep trying to correct.

Wow, you try to correct the fact that I am in agreement with sirona, or the fact that my suggestion is similar to sirona's ? Cool ^_^

there are 2 other stats you seem to think don't matter

So nice twist of words for someone that have a big argument with me on armor gears sometimes ago. But yeah, you might be right there. When a soldier or a cyborg have 150 HP in evolution points, there are 2 stats that I think don't matter! HINT HINT HINT: 150 HP 150 HP 150 HP 150 HP 150 HP 150 HP!!!!

#100 RJEM

RJEM

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 20:21

Teekill,

The vast majority of your analysis is flawed. As a soldier I don't have all my points in HP, Damage and Attack. As a Purist you have less than 30 not in Attack or Damage. How can you seriously say the effects of KR are the same. Internal Reserves is almost never used in most setups. Strike isn't all that needed in this game - damage drops too low before attack does in most cases. To be honest I think you're blinded by your own numbers.

There are problems with the purist class. I've posted about them in this thread and others, and still maintain they need to be changed. As of this moment statistics are not amongst them.

RJEM


There will be never a correct analysis since each players have their own setup. That's why I have a large margin when assuming 150 HP to compare to MS (most players have less than 100HP in evol points). And talking about def, any class will need def, if you want def so you won't be hit, purists want def as well. No one want to get hit at all!
"Strike isn't all that needed in this game", "damage drops too low before attack does in most cases" --> then I really don't understand why r u against me when I ask atk for my class? Or should I ask for all atk class buffs remove instead? Btw, do you see people suggesting purists to have all dmg setup (mean 0 atk setup)? And you have 100++ in evol atk and then all the buffs? Not sure what you think but it is really funny for me there!!!
A bit copying ahead ^_^ "To be honest I think you're blinded by your own" evolution setup and fail to see the bigger picture of each class!


I'm quite confused by this rebuttal - my point is that people have enough attack and damage already. Why do you want more? i.e. Which creature have you had trouble 1 hit killing? On another note - Centurion does seem to advocate an all damage setup in this thread. Have a look back. I don't think it's necessary, but hey.

I could quite easily have fewer points in attack by the way - I choose to have them there because I am taking a guess on the way this game will progress differently to Fallen Sword by having tougher to hit creatures, not just more HP.

Look, my basic point is that you have been throwing numbers out in this thread since the very beginning, for no real reason. If anything, you reinforce the idea that all the classes are pretty well set for stats so far. If anyone had any trouble they would be in here talking about it. I don't see them.

The more important issues like attunement being broken and mind shards not being stackable (amongst others) have been swept aside by page after page of flawed, unnecessary statistical rambling from a lot of well meaning players. If you focus on what needs to be done rather than the numberfest that seems to result these days then I think HCS would have a much easier job.


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