130 replies to this topic

[gilby90813]

Grendel you never answered how this would benefit you? I assume you pvp or are in the band...Wouldnt benefit you????

Ranking Player PvP Rating   1st Grendeldog 1,044     2nd Grimmsvold 1,038     3rd sub11ven 1,006   

 

 

... in my view its strategic bountying that way you can take the lead or take someone off. Can you  take someone off your band by deleveling them a few levels not sure if u delevel someone a alot of level if they get kicked off band.

[gilby90813]

No, EVERY pvp hit is bountyable. If you remove bounties, you may as well remove xp loss, and the hourly hit ratio, and then you can call it the pillow fight ladder. So again. My vote is no

+1

[watagashi]

Grendel you never answered how this would benefit you? I assume you pvp or are in the band...Wouldnt benefit you????

Ranking Player PvP Rating   1st Grendeldog 1,044     2nd (that other guy) 1,038     3rd (another guy) 1,006   

 

 

... in my view its strategic bountying that way you can take the lead or take someone off. Can you  take someone off your band by deleveling them a few levels not sure if u delevel someone a alot of level if they get kicked off band.

Actually I did,,, here,,, " It really has no benefit at all to me other than nobody has to wonder if those 5 hits they did,,,once again in a competition everyone signed up for,,will cost me 50 levels when the sore loser loses. In the whole game view of it there are many players who cite this and the abuse its had as a big reason they dont join ladder)"

 

Id like to address this too ,,,  

... in my view its strategic bountying that way you can take the lead or take someone off. Can you  take someone off your band by deleveling them a few levels not sure if u delevel someone a alot of level if they get kicked off band. "

 

 

I could not put it better how wrong, borderline exploit of game mechanics this is and pretty much spot on the reason for this post and,, I believe,, what Grim meant when he came out against bountys of pvp ladder. 

Yes you can take the lead away by calling people not opted into or even in your band to help you

Yes you can delev a player out of your band tho they stay till the next reset

Both exploits have been used to chase people out of pvp ladder, most pvpers agree its wrong, cheating and dishonorable

 

And address this again cuz a couple pages back the majority commented on it already,,,

Maehdros, on 21 May 2013 - 20:09, said:

No, EVERY pvp hit is bountyable. If you remove bounties, you may as well remove xp loss, and the hourly hit ratio, and then you can call it the pillow fight ladder. So again. My vote is no

 

It went far off topic but actually not far off,,, by these reasoning you should bounty GvG hits, arena attacks and monsters should be able to bounty levelers,, it made so little sense it pissed Grim off but really this is how little sense bountying a contest hit is too.

 

Finally after all the changes to segregate the pvper, things put in to make sure the general population was protected from us and we were pushed back into a corner to fight one another in a contest we had to opt into,,, I cannot understand why someone can then call in the rest of the game for help??

 

And while im totally ok with it the other 2 guys in my band may not want the "unwanted attention" your posting their names gives, suggest you edit that out.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT I thought it out a bit and wasnt going to say this but I feel it will not only help people understand our side of it but also maybe help change some minds

 

You do not have smasher or dom medals so im gonna go out on a limb and say you have not tried pvp ladder Its ok everyone has parts they like and parts they arent into

BUT

 

As a leveler how would you feel if the rest of the game made you out as a bad guy who bullyed those poor mindless monsters, imagine if suddenly and just because people wont use the already put in place ways to counter it that its decided you may only attack greenskin types for exp and all other types will only be for gold. In addition if you miss instead of shield imp thats just the times you get posted on board by that idiotic creature. Imagine if you then get attacked and lose exp to creatures 1000 levels above you? How would a monthly top 20 feel if every time you activated doubler you got bountyed and other top 20 then knocked you down the list as "a strategic move" How would you feel if random drops exploded in your face and took off 3 levels?? What if someone fighting you for rank and level could set a trap and if you step on that tile you get deleved?? 

 

Let me take another step into the absurd,,,,,

 

Imagine if you are a plant farmer,, a rival farmer can plant a poison variety of your plants on a creature and if you get one you find out when it poisons 3 levels off you as it drops? Or a pot maker, what if a rival doesnt like your AH price and sets a dirty bottle that blows 2 levels off you when you try and make something? 

Would it be fair if im watching a arena fight and going to lose that I could "tag" a guildmate in gear higher than the arena to finish for me?

Should people be able to hire Ripple and I to finish your GvGs without joining and with no level restrictions???

Should there be a random fail or even better a hex buff and enemy can cast that can cause you to lose 5 if the buff backfires?

 

Thats how crazy bountying a hit in a pvp contest exclusively for pvpers in the same level range is

All ill ask is if you ARENT a pvper think about it this way before you vote no.

[KrypWalk]

I think it was a good comparison Grendeldog made.

If you're a leveler, you knowingly hit and hunted that monster for your xp. (your benefit, compare this to pvp rating. you're hitting for rating) 
Knowingly fulfilling that hit will warrant a bounty back by that creature. (in pvp case, the player you hit could bounty you back) 

You hit the creature 5 times. (in pvp case, you hit the player 5 times) 

Now that creature is able to bounty you 5 times. (in pvp case, the player you hit 5 times is going to bounty you 5 times)

[yotwehc]

I think it was a good comparison Grendeldog made.

If you're a leveler, you knowingly hit and hunted that monster for your xp. (your benefit, compare this to pvp rating. you're hitting for rating) 
Knowingly fulfilling that hit will warrant a bounty back by that creature. (in pvp case, the player you hit could bounty you back) 

You hit the creature 5 times. (in pvp case, you hit the player 5 times) 

Now that creature is able to bounty you 5 times. (in pvp case, the player you hit 5 times is going to bounty you 5 times)

Why would one even play the game?

But make sure you guys take what you are saying and understand why leveler's dislike pvp... you sure are making a strong case why pvp stinks. (sorry off-topic)

[watagashi]

Why would one even play the game?

But make sure you guys take what you are saying and understand why leveler's dislike pvp... you sure are making a strong case why pvp stinks. (sorry off-topic)

You are totally on it man!! Theres a big reason the pvp ladder is basically empty!

I think theres a lot of confusion as to pvping and playing pvp ladder, we are hitting one another to see who comes out on top not hitting people who didnt opt into it or ask to play!

 

Its like,,, and im gonna get lynched by fans of all these,,, pvping is like professional wrestling, you might get bruised and maybe sometime someone breaks a leg doing stunts but for the most part they are taking your money to put on a show of beating one another up.

 

Pvp ladder is like MMA we know how to fight and want to fight fighters we want to beat up each other and leave society to enjoy their life, we take your money by selling licensed tapout merchandise (LMAO cuz its lame to see someone without a bronze dom medal in sekhs gear) and we get hurt fighting real fights

BUT

we dont want to fight someone who can summon a rugby team for help its just unfair o matter how much some people like to watch it XD

[yotwehc]

You are totally on it man!! Theres a big reason the pvp ladder is basically empty!

I think theres a lot of confusion as to pvping and playing pvp ladder, we are hitting one another to see who comes out on top not hitting people who didnt opt into it or ask to play!

 

Its like,,, and im gonna get lynched by fans of all these,,, pvping is like professional wrestling, you might get bruised and maybe sometime someone breaks a leg doing stunts but for the most part they are taking your money to put on a show of beating one another up.

 

Pvp ladder is like MMA we know how to fight and want to fight fighters we want to beat up each other and leave society to enjoy their life, we take your money by selling licensed tapout merchandise (LMAO cuz its lame to see someone without a bronze dom medal in sekhs gear) and we get hurt fighting real fights

BUT

we dont want to fight someone who can summon a rugby team for help its just unfair o matter how much some people like to watch it XD

Ahhh... ok... I agree... regular pvp is against bunnies but pvp ladder is the real deal. Thanks for the clarification. I'm 100% with you and you deserve epic prizes for surviving that blood bath... no outside interference should be allowed. Good luck with that. I hope it goes through.

[gilby90813]

alright fine so im going to use a scenario that happen to me personally i dont care if people 100 stam me or what ever pvp is part of the game whether i want it to be or not i have 3 options i  bounty, hit back or do nothing which is never the case. in my case i just 100 stam the person back every hour on the dot  who cares about a few levels... i had someone bounty me once for every single hit which were alot if i remember right i lost  31 levels after that the guy never attacked me again and  he even put up the pvp protection thingy on. also your saying alot of people decide not to compete in the band because they are scared to get put up on the bb... if it were up to be i would leave it that way free whatever stuff u guys win i seen a few bands there only 3 people which im sure u guys have no problem exploiting.

 

Here one of my favorite quote from one of my favorite pvper that on there bio

 

Knowing you will lose 5 is the most liberating feeling ever! When you know they will do their worst, you are free to do YOUR worst.

 

for example why are u in the band what do u want out of it

everything comes with a risk and the price for that in the band is the possibility of getting put in the bb

[KrypWalk]

(unrelated note - pvp protection doesn't protect from BB. )
related note -

The BB and ladder should not be related. One is a "punishment" and one is a voluntary opt in player vs player. The BB is to FOR players to punish someone that attacked them unknowingly. The ladder when you check the opt in option and click save, you're asking to join the ladder. You KNOW you're going to get attacked as YOU opted in. YOU chose to go in and in that sense, you shouldn't have bounties in the ladder. Or else it wouldn't be a ladder of pvp, it would just be who can bounty each other out of the band first. 

[Maehdros]

(unrelated note - pvp protection doesn't protect from BB. )
related note -

The BB and ladder should not be related. One is a "punishment" and one is a voluntary opt in player vs player. The BB is to FOR players to punish someone that attacked them unknowingly. The ladder when you check the opt in option and click save, you're asking to join the ladder. You KNOW you're going to get attacked as YOU opted in. YOU chose to go in and in that sense, you shouldn't have bounties in the ladder. Or else it wouldn't be a ladder of pvp, it would just be who can bounty each other out of the band first. 

 

The BB isn't just for *unknown* attacks. There's multiple reasons for a bounty.

 

 

In pvp you attack someone knowing you can possibly be bountied for doing so ( regardless of deflect/ xp loss/ gold loss.

 

Same applies to bounty hunting, you *can* be bountied  ( regardless of stam used or if you completed the bounty)

 

For the ladder, you opt in knowing you can possibly be bountied for any hit done.(regardless of deflect/ xp loss/ etc)

 

 

 

If we change one type of pvp, we change the whole equation. Everythings bountyable. Imo, if we see a change put through on the ladder bounties, we'll soon see players asking for unbountyable 10 stam clears, unbountyable 10 stam pvp hits, etc etc. Leave it well enough alone. Bring out exciting rewards/ events.

 

 

My two cents~  ( again ) 

[RebornJedi]

leaving the bounty every hit system open for an aspect that encourages expected hourly hits isn't a good thing for the game..

[watagashi]

The BB isn't just for *unknown* attacks. There's multiple reasons for a bounty.

 

 

In pvp you attack someone knowing you can possibly be bountied for doing so ( regardless of deflect/ xp loss/ gold loss.

 

Same applies to bounty hunting, you *can* be bountied  ( regardless of stam used or if you completed the bounty)

 

For the ladder, you opt in knowing you can possibly be bountied for any hit done.(regardless of deflect/ xp loss/ etc)

 

 

 

If we change one type of pvp, we change the whole equation. Everythings bountyable. Imo, if we see a change put through on the ladder bounties, we'll soon see players asking for unbountyable 10 stam clears, unbountyable 10 stam pvp hits, etc etc. Leave it well enough alone. Bring out exciting rewards/ events.

 

 

My two cents~  ( again ) 

Well as far as other types of pvp go id be against those and for these reasons,,,

10 stam hits,, you still hit someone who didnt ask you to,,,, in pvp ladder everyone asks to join

10 stam bounty clears, again nobody asked you to clear them (or if they did and still bountyed they are a toerag), by opting into pvp ladder you confirm you want to compete in pvp

 

To me when they put us together and had us opt into it they removed it from regular pvp into a contest You mentioned pvp bountys and ladder together as all things you can be bountyed for them and I agree 100% except,

 

Its generally accepted that pvp lader hits should not be bountyed now that we enter a contest reserved for us to attack one another, and many feel it should have been fixed a long time ago but id like to point out the pros of this as a reason its  agreat time to fix now!

 

Somebody out there doesnt do ladder anymore because someone bountyed him out of 1st I bet there are a few somebodys there.

 

Some players havent tried it because of the base elements of it,,, who is stupid enough to throw out 48 hits on someone WHO CAN POST EACH HIT,,, that change also changed the aspects of ladder in a big way!

 

Some players desperately want attention and opt in to bounty everyone and be annoying I actually got a message from a ubernoob who claimed he didnt know he had opted into pvp so since he hadnt hit he just bountyed everyone who did. <----this above anything else has discouraged people from playing pvp ladder

 

I think if you get the stigmata of pvp off ladder,, maybe rename it combat arena?? ,, you will see a change i attitude tward it. if its a place a new player with the cajones can enter a 48 hour intensive combat training experiance maybe they will,, maybe they will like it. But as long as theres a way for someone to blindside you, to cut the quarterback off at the knees, collapse a scrum on you,,, well people arent gonna play that sport!!

[Dulcharn]

You tell em Grim!

 

 

I think my view on the subject is the following. If someone does some unethical farming of PvP rating on the ladder and sends you ugly messages, he needs to be dropped 5 on the Bounty Board. In certain cases, ladder hits should be kept bountyable. But overall the PvPers who play the ladder have a certain ethical decency about them. And these players know not to bounty the hits, even after some farming of rating in a sportsmanship manner. If you get farmed, then farm back. If you feel raped far too many times and the opponent is being unfriendly about it, then drop him/ her on the Bounty Board. It should remain an option, in my opinion.

[KrypWalk]

 

For the ladder, you opt in knowing you can possibly be bountied for any hit done.(regardless of deflect/ xp loss/ etc)

 

 

 

 

So are we opting into the ladder or into a bounty competition? 

[Dulcharn]

So are we opting into the ladder or into a bounty competition? 

You have a point there. I suppose you either play the board, or you play the ladder. If you really wanted to get 'revenge' from a player who has been farming you on the ladder, then you just need to get your own back on the ladder. You could get guildies to help you out on the ladder if it got out of hand. I see your point.

[KrypWalk]

You have a point there. I suppose you either play the board, or you play the ladder. If you really wanted to get 'revenge' from a player who has been farming you on the ladder, then you just need to get your own back on the ladder. You could get guildies to help you out on the ladder if it got out of hand. I see your point.

 

Yes, thank you. If we are opting into the ladder all competition should STAY inside the ladder. There shouldn't be outside sources (i.e. bounty board) to compete on the ladder. If you are losing in a ladder, you fight back! Are you going to bounty every hit because you're losing? That's where we should draw the line. 

[Maehdros]

leaving the bounty every hit system open for an aspect that encourages expected hourly hits isn't a good thing for the game..

 

 

All pvp encourages hourly hits. I mean, the ladder IS pvp , right?

[watagashi]

All pvp encourages hourly hits. I mean, the ladder IS pvp , right?

Actually thats what I think a lot of us are trying to say,,, its not

 

While there is pvp there people seem to be confused about it, the pvp ladder is a contest for pvpers who are opting in to hit one another, not hitting someone who didnt ask to be there or to be attacked (the main justification for the bounty system) and therefore it seems to many to be in poor sport to allow bountys to be done for those hits.

 

In my opinion the pvp ladder is not anymore a pvp hit than a street fight is a sanctioned MMA match, theres a huge difference!

 

I mentioned it earlier and perhaps its a good idea,,, as its more a matchup between "pros" who enter a contest and not regular pvp it should be renamed the combat ladder, fighter arena (not so hot on this as then it would be confused with arena), fighter ladder, or even combat colosseum. 

 

There really is that much difference between attacking someone without prior notice and without them being prepared and hitting someone who opted into a contest where they should expect hits and be prepared for it. Bountys have no place in a contest everyone signed up for!

[Pardoux]

 

I mentioned it earlier and perhaps its a good idea,,, as its more a matchup between "pros" who enter a contest and not regular pvp it should be renamed the combat ladder, fighter arena (not so hot on this as then it would be confused with arena), fighter ladder, or even combat colosseum. 

 

 

The ladder is more a match-up between "pros" ? - LMAO. Maybe a few of the bands are like that, but, whenever I look at them, most seem to be won by 1 hit and reciprocal agreements. A match-up of pros indeed .....

[watagashi]

The ladder is more a match-up between "pros" ? - LMAO. Maybe a few of the bands are like that, but, whenever I look at them, most seem to be won by 1 hit and reciprocal agreements. A match-up of pros indeed .....

This is true too. I would hope this change will fix that and let it be a place where not only can you compete but a great place where you can have it out with another player in a one on one fight

 

Without bountys pvp ladder becomes the place the pros fight,,again