98 replies to this topic

[vlkfenrir]

The black curse potion was discontinued for being extremely powerful but it was before we could get KE and Coord Attack 350 from composing.

 

Not arguing about that just trying to point out some changes in the balance.

 

would NOT like this 1 to be reintroduced anyway

Edited by vlkfenrir, 28 January 2015 - 14:34.

[hades8840]

Throwing them into the Special Auctions for peanuts would work for me in most cases, though you're right that some are not needed.

The Black Curse Potion feels utterly excessive to me.

it is when hoof introuduced that most of the game felt it was ott so it was removed ...

[wil72]

Dark Curse 400 is VERY BAD !!! would render EVERY defensive setup in PvP USELESS !!!

DC400 + distil150 = DC460 => reduces targets defense by 92% !!!!

!!! A BIG NO to DC !!!

 

It doesn't need to be introduced at that level though, just higher than that of Potion of Black Death, high enough for it to be worthwhile. There are already pots available that have a higher level DC than the Black Curse potion.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[Davros81]

Been looking through our potion list and remembered that we actually have a fair few discontinued potions. Generally small scale buffs. Wondering if some of them could be reintroduced as cheap loyalty potions. Not entirely convinced some of them would be worth it though.

Potion of Nature Attraction (Animal Magnetism 175)

Black Curse Potion (Dark Curse 400) I think this one was discontinued for being excessively powerful. 80% reduction to opponents defence?

Super Doubler Potion (Doubler 300)

Greater Potion of Dull Edge (Dull Edge 50) Wee! It's tiny!

Potion of the Crafter (Extractor 35) So's this one.

Potion of Discovery (Find Item 400)

Potion of the Tinkerer (Inventor 45) Another tiny one.

Potion of Double Edge (Keen Edge 150)

Supreme Light Foot Potion (Light Foot 750) Not really needed with a 1250 already there?

Potion of the Golem (Rock Skin 100)

Potion of the Wolf (Savagery 40)

Potion of Entanglement(Shockwave 80)

Potion of Indestructibility (Unbreakable 200) Hmm. Don't need this one!

Thoughts? Opinions? Use em? Leave them gathering (digital) dust?

These are all pointless really as they are superseded either by current loyalty potions or are not high enough to be worth spending tokens on.

[mary4ever]

It doesn't need to be introduced at that level though, just higher than that of Potion of Black Death, high enough for it to be worthwhile. There are already pots available that have a higher level DC than the Black Curse potion.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

currently the highest DC pot you can buy is 225 called "Potion of Black Death" (inventable)

ALL higher DC pots are from EPIC & global chests !!!!

DC225 + distil150 = DC259 => reduces targets defense by ~52% !!!!

 

in PvP that DC259 is already powerful enough, imo a more powerful DC will be almost the same as "sealed" (old version of sealed where it used to negate ALL targets skills if activated which HCS later changed to negate only 2 skills !!!)

Edited by mary4ever, 28 January 2015 - 15:11.

[BigGrim]

It doesn't need to be introduced at that level though, just higher than that of Potion of Black Death, high enough for it to be worthwhile. There are already pots available that have a higher level DC than the Black Curse potion.

It's one I think we don't particularly need I feel. The existing one is powerful enough.

These are all pointless really as they are superseded either by current loyalty potions or are not high enough to be worth spending tokens on.

In general, I agreed wholeheartedly. Again, possibly better to add them to the Special Auctions for peanuts, no?

in PvP that DC259 is already powerful enough, imo a more powerful DC will be almost the same as "sealed" (old version of sealed where it used to negate ALL targets skills if activated which HCS later changed to negate only 2 skills !!!)

I'm inclined to agree that DC is not in need of a boost. It's always worth getting feedback on these things though. See what the Community thinks.

[wil72]

currently the highest DC pot you can buy is 225 called "Potion of Black Death" (inventable)

ALL higher DC pots are from EPIC & global chests !!!!

DC225 + distil150 = DC259 => reduces targets defense by ~52% !!!!

 

in PvP that DC259 is already powerful enough, imo a more powerful DC will be almost the same as "sealed" (old version of sealed where it used to negate ALL targets skills if activated which HCS later changed to negate only 2 skills !!!)

 

Edited, due to Grim's earlier response, no worries mate. By the way mary, there isn't anything wrong with my hearing

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

Edited by wil72, 28 January 2015 - 15:24.

[Davros81]

could add them to the potion bazaar or special auction lists why not does not harm anyone, good idea

[BadPenny]

DC 400 would render a lotr of defense setups useless, however, unless NMV is used in conjunction with a high defense, I usually can overcome one's turtle suit, with a few exceptions at EOC... yeah, they're all Dead Folks

 

The rest, I agree with the room, give them teeny prices and throw them in Specials and the Bazaar

[vastilos]

To be honest, there's more important things in the game to worry about than loyalty potions or inventable potions. The stuff you have in loyalty section are horribly over priced as it is, maybe lower what's currently in there to something more sensable?

Otherwise I would suggest just working on new buffs. Work out what you're going to do with the PvP ladder. Work on finishing up the Epic quests. There a lot to do, stuff in the loyalty section shouldn't even be looked at, thought of or talked about (unless you're going to lower the prices for everything in loyalty section).

[Pardoux]

Add some of the "useful" ones to the specials section, sure, but the sub-level 100 ones ? - just scrap 'em. Remove 'em from the game like the DC400 potion was ...

[BadPenny]

Add some of the "useful" ones to the specials section, sure, but the sub-level 100 ones ? - just scrap 'em. Remove 'em from the game like the DC400 potion was ...

Wait now, there are some <100 pots I think should stay... NMV 80 for example.  I have never seen a reason to use any higher myself, it's quite powerful and effective at 80.... RF and QF are pretty powerful even at lower levels, and cloak, well, it does exactly what it's supposed to do at 30, it just needs to last about twice as long as it does.  These should remain... The rest (including the "enchant item" buffs from the arena) should either have their values raised to give them the power they need, or be scrapped, as Pardoux suggests

Edited by BadPenny, 29 January 2015 - 16:34.

[justinian9]

Hi there Everyone.

Here is a list of possible Loyalty Potions. We're looking for feedback on these as well as suggested points costs.

Anti Deflect 300 ~ Yes.
Super Elite Slayer 200 ~ Yes.
Overkill 300 ~ Yes.
Honor 250 ~ Yes.
Degrade 200 ~ Yes.
Side Step 200 ~ Yes.
Last Ditch? 250 ~ Yes.
Inventor (II) 200 ~ Yes.
Reckoning 230 ~ Yes.
Sacrifice 350 ~ Yes.
Gold Foot 250 ~ Yes.
Cloak 100 (300 minutes) ~ Yes.
Extend 200 ~ Yes.
Reinforce 250 ~ Yes.
Overkill 300 ~ Yes.
Sanctuary lvl 250 ~ Yes.
Stun lvl 200 ~ Yes.
Mighty Vigor 250 ~ Yes.
Ignite/Poison 200 ~ Yes.
Arterial Strike 200 ~ Yes
Spectral Knight 200 ~ Yes
Flinch 200 ~ Yes
Terrorize 200 ~ Yes
-----------------
Treasure Hunter 250 ~ Maybe?
Merch 275 ~ Maybe?
Dull Edge 200 ~ Maybe?
Brewing master 250 ~ Invalidates the recently released Pontius Egg.
Extractor II 200 ~ Yes. Could be a touch higher though. 300?
Find Item 1250 ~ 800? 1000? 1250 makes the 1000 in SA obsolete.
Stalker 300 ~ Maybe. If so, the existing Stalker potions would need to be buffed a wee bit.
-----------------
AL180 and CON180 potions should be updated to 250?

~ The Fallen Sword Team

I like the pots listed... glad to see the cloak 100 / 300 minute listed.  FI 1250 is great also.  I like the range of the pots and that PvP players have a good list of pots also.  I hope the time limit on these buffs will not be short (other then Cloak) ... maybe  offering them at 90 to 120 minutes and keep the BM 250 pot in loyalty area ...

 

If you want to keep the value of the arena cloak pot then offer the Loyalty one at 180 to 200 minutes

 

I am not sure that these pots would make other pots obsolete or Invalidate them as we only get so many loyalty points.

 

I also like the TH and Merchant pots.

 

Nice list and thanks for looking into this early this year!! 

[insaner6]

Please, dont forget to include a higher Doubler potion.

[rowbeth]

38 in attack, and the rest in damage. I've 1 hit for as long as I can remember. That counts for before composing and loyalty "super pots". In 60K+ stamina, I use 1 Imp refill.

 

I'm not sure what you're doing differently, but I haven't had an issue in ages. The only reason my kill streak isn't a ridiculous number is because sometimes I try to kill big things with little weapons. Not like it affects much, anyway.

 

You may well be forgetting guild bonuses. More than +12.3% damage bonus (your current guild - though clearly not your only guild during this time) does make a big difference to 1-hitting.

 

I have always found some levels where I need CA to 1-hit. These days they also need wither450. My damage shortfall is never more than 10% on normal creatures, so I wouldn't notice it if I were in one of the top 20 guilds. But not everyone is in one of those guilds.

 

[PS top 20 is a rough and ready round number. Obviously not exclusive, but most in that have empowered structures, while many below that do not]

[rowbeth]

Add some of the "useful" ones to the specials section, sure, but the sub-level 100 ones ? - just scrap 'em. Remove 'em from the game like the DC400 potion was ...

 

(Apologies to Pardoux for using this to illustrate a general point)

 

One of the problems with this thread is that it hasn't really identified its target audience, nor does it really grasp the challenge of interacting with different groups from within this highly heterogeneous family. The other problem is that the discussion has ignored the price/volume effects.

 

For example (unfairly focussing on one of Pardoux's comments) not all new players jump straight into an established higher level community (and, indeed, not all will want to do so); for such people, the chance to access a lowish level buff from high on the skill tree without spending gold/FSP can be a nice treat --- but only if it is costed at 5-10 points so they can do this every day or two.

 

At the other end, there is a lot of discussion about high-level pots breaking the current economy. But this would only happen if lots of people can buy them all the time. If they were pitched at the 500+ level of everlasting and fleeting, I doubt that they will be used in enough volume to seriously damage the rest of the game economy.

 

This last point introduces the question of whether loyalty pots are there to be a necessity or a luxury. Given that the ability to gain these is strongly linked to spending money on the game, I would have thought it should be luxury. I think these ideas have already been used well in some of the existing loyalty pots:

• fleeting potion (at 750 tokens) is not going to be a standard for many people, but the level is high enough to make it feel like a really nice luxury to use if you are doing a movement-intensive task.
•  potion of intensity (doubler 1250) is more nearly an essential buff, especially for large-stam hunts, but it is priced at a level that is accessible to daily token accruals (especially with occasional donations) and is balanced by both GE chests and a not unreasonable lower level version (750) that is easily purchasable (though 1000/1250 would be a better balance than 750/1250 IMO).

I'd be very happy to see new pots included on this basis, particularly in the first (fleeting potion) category.

 

In terms of the  "donators"/"nondonators" debate (though personally, I prefer to talk about buyers/nonbuyers or direct/indirect donators, since (1) the "donations" are really purchases of FSPs and chests, and (2) I spend a lot of time screening videos in the firm belief that this is generating (indirectly) "donations" to HCS)... 

As, primarily, an indirect donator, I have absolutely no qualms about the (direct) donators being able to use a few luxury pots on a regular basis. I also don't mind if they have a big choice to select from either, provided that they are set at a price that leaves (most of) the donators having to choose between them. I also have no qualms about a slightly bigger choice in the second category, provided these don't all get built into the expectations for normal difficulty in the game (e.g. essential for 1-hitting in PVE, or changing the success chances for PVP, or determining the top-rated lists).

[09876r3LDK]

We could do something like with the keys gold or tokens, or either gold into tokens maybe ya know not saying 1 gold per token but on the same ratio as the keys maybe

[BadPenny]

We could do something like with the keys gold or tokens, or either gold into tokens maybe ya know not saying 1 gold per token but on the same ratio as the keys maybe

I agree that all loyalty potions should have a gold value as well.... to me, loyalty is about being here, not what we spend on the game.  We that donate get more tokens, that should be bonus enough.... 

[Pardoux]

We could do something like with the keys gold or tokens, or either gold into tokens maybe ya know not saying 1 gold per token but on the same ratio as the keys maybe

 

 

I agree that all loyalty potions should have a gold value as well.... to me, loyalty is about being here, not what we spend on the game.  We that donate get more tokens, that should be bonus enough.... 

 

Key prices need looking at - for the contents of the chests, the key prices are, not to beat about the bush, ridiculously expensive.

 

Loyalty potions however ? - no, they should remain as token only purchases.  This debate about making them available to all players via gold purchase has been trotted out time and time again, with the same result (thankfully).

 

Are the loyalty potions much good these days ? - for the most part, no (sadly) - but hopefully they'll get addressed and make them more useful (and have uses across all aspects of the game)

 

That doesn't alter the fact that they are called LOYALTY potions - bought with LOYALTY tokens which are given to every player once every day that they log on (or, obviously, as a result of making game donations) - and that should stay as it is.