139 replies to this topic

[Zord]

lets stop catering low level GvGers who have the easiest job in Fallen Sword.. where i could only imagine how many are multi accounts, cheaters, and exploiters.

Yes, we are all multies, cheaters and exploiters...

 

Let me ask back: why do you want to force others to play as you like instead of how they do? Why limiting the game experience of anyone? Would such limitation make new players to stick? Why making this game even more a leveling game in which case it would be difficult to distinguish from other games...? I really dont understant why the limitation is the way instead of enabling...

[wil72]

think this becomes more a hassle then just to make the GvG limit for level 25/50/75+.. why do players under level 25+ have to be open to easy conflict farms? adding a time limit for a GvG protection just makes it POSSIBLE for a very low level player to be farmed. they create account, come back after time limit is up, and can be easily farmed with some facerolls on the keyboard by an experienced GvGer.

 

i don't understand the suggestions for a GvG protection time limit.. a time limit has loopholes. makes no sense since its so easy to level up in the beginning of the game. just make it so you can't attack a player below level 25/50/75+ in a GvG and move on! why make the whole system even more messy with a time limit when a level limit is the most secure way to go.

 

lets stop catering low level GvGers who have the easiest job in Fallen Sword.. where i could only imagine how many are multi accounts, cheaters, and exploiters.

I knew this would be the argument and its lame as poop mate. You say "  it's so easy to level up " well guess what, if a " new player " receives GvG protection then they can do just that, hassle free, probably beyond this farming range gibberish.

 

By the way we are talking about " new players " in connection with all of this not all players lvl 50 and below. If players choose to stay within these levels and are in a Guild then by gum they most certainly are fair game to be hit in GvG.

 

I'm not catering to low level GvGers, the mechanics of the game do. And a GvG protection period for " new players " is ample time to allow them to level risk free beyond the hits of these low level GvGing, as you would have them, monstrosities.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[RebornJedi]

Yes, we are all multies, cheaters and exploiters...

 

did i say all low level GvGers are multies, cheaters, and exploiters?? i said, "i could only imagine"

 

Let me ask back: why do you want to force others to play as you like instead of how they do? Why limiting the game experience of anyone? Would such limitation make new players to stick? Why making this game even more a leveling game in which case it would be difficult to distinguish from other games...? I really dont understant why the limitation is the way instead of enabling...

 

please point out a low level GvGer who is below level 25.. if you find one, suggest to them to come in to the forum and express their thoughts on this limitation. since it will make them level up a handful of levels or almost a dozen more handfuls depending on where HCS decides to put the restriction. seems like the PvP Ladder restrictions went over fine for the game

 

this is a game of MANY levels.. and we are discussing cutting out ONLY the starting 25+ of them from the GvG attack range..

 

why is it necessary and good for the game to have the GvG attack range to be open from level 1-24??? 

[watagashi]

You should also take into consideration that many lower level player do PvP for own fun and also participating in the process of making RPs (this income) for their guild in the way of being a hitter. GvG is actually a teamwork, hitting is just one part of it, and again, if you make a level cap of GvG participation, I wonder what would happen with e.g. the lowest PvP band since it would not be possible anymore to deliver hits within conflicts... So basically they are forced to level up.

 

On the other hand side, I have heard many complaints that why this game should be turned further into a simple leveling game? I think the major incentive in playing this game is the fact that there are MANY aspect to have fun with... Not to mention that a new player can reach high levels fairly quickly in the first days and thus can get out of the reach of those "evil farmers" relatively quickly...

 

As it was mentioned by others, if someone is invited by a friend, he/she will be taken care of, so the "farming" would not be an issue, and also multies does not care much, so only the genuine new player remains an issue. If a player just registers and starts playing without going after what this game offers, I honestly think that the chances that he will feel lost and thus quit is high. On the other hand side, he will mostly stay guild-less, so it wont be possible to "farm" them, so again, I do not see the issue here. If he joins a guild and gets the MINIMUM support from the guild it again I doubt it would make them leave.

 

So basically the question is fairly simple: should a player, who stays at a certain level range since he/she enjoys it for whatever reason, be punished just because others does not take a little extra step (i.e. giving a little information to a just invited player, explaining how joining a guild could affect his/her gaming experience)...

 

I truly believe that the major root cause of new players losing their interest in the game is that they dont see a reasonable chance/way to improve their characters using in-game resources, so they just feel that they are progressing slowly in the are they like... Enabling players to upgrade their characters is actually what could make them to stick more, and thus any restriction implemented might work in the wrong direction...

Hes got this,, ill just sit back and read now

[Removed19110]

I dont think levels have much to do with it..  

I would think of a tutorial when you start (like in so many other games) to guide you through asking you to do certain things like a conflict,  an arena, a pvp hit  could be intriguing to the new player..  I would even prize the small introductory achievements with a small number of fsp to give the oportunity to the player to feel how it is to upgrade something,  buy a slot, increase max stam etc.. 

it could be that while in their tutorial period players get some basic protection from pvp/gvg hits ..  

Not sure if this is feasible though..  

All I know is it took me 1+ year, 200 badly leveled levels and joining a higher level guild to understand the basics..  

[bigchaos]

I dont think levels have much to do with it..  

I would think of a tutorial when you start (like in so many other games) to guide you through asking you to do certain things like a conflict,  an arena, a pvp hit  could be intriguing to the new player..  I would even prize the small introductory achievements with a small number of fsp to give the oportunity to the player to feel how it is to upgrade something,  buy a slot, increase max stam etc.. 

it could be that while in their tutorial period players get some basic protection from pvp/gvg hits ..  

Not sure if this is feasible though..  

All I know is it took me 1+ year, 200 badly leveled levels and joining a higher level guild to understand the basics..  

I like to see a tutorial in place of protection makes good sense so when a player gets out they have option to participate in all aspect of the game.  I voted yes for protection up to level 25.  Leveling should be easy enough to get to when starting out , since hcs has updated a lot of the quests now.  I hope that all new players that are starting off do come join this topic since it is your voice that is needed the most in this topic.  I wanted to see fs back to a 1000 + player online marker.  I agree gvg does no damage other than gear is an experience and this game is based on pvping, mind set and gvging is stepping stone to this.  I stated in previous post if I was limited on my lower levels not able to play whole game doubt I would have stayed so we as a community need to think more of new player interest and to keep players wanting to come back.  I support the idea of a tutorial to give the experience needed  to understand how game mechanics work.  Yet leaves the freedom of player choice to continue in these areas as a new player. 

[Bluetail]

Make it the responsibility of guild founders to inform their new members of GVG when they join their guild. If the founder withholds this information then they are just hoarding new players and doesnt care to help them further in the game, like a founder should. As for protection, a time limit sounds more fair than a level opt in mainly because players may stay under the level, while other players in the guild GVG. Now in this case only he attackers will be hit back. If you put a level opt in, all members of the guild must be that level in order to start a conflict.

[Windbattle]

After reading some more comments, these ideas came to me.

 

1) IP Ban all the multi account users. Unless they have given you ample proof that they are not a multi, then they need a suspension for review or outright ban.

 

2) Raise the minimum amount of active players needed for GvG. 4 people is a tribe not a guild. I think 10-20 range would be best. Also, guilds that are completely full of multi accounts should become more obvious now / discourages this behavior. So there is a side benefit.

 

3) Its part of the GAME. It sucks to get farmed for GvG hits, but it also gives people the motivation to defend themselves from such attacks.  They will join up with a great guild that can help them with gears / buffs and they won't be hit as often.

 

Also, you don't lose gold or XP from gvg hits. Some gold is needed for repairs .. which its usually a small amount.

 

4) A better tutorial would be nice. A general understanding that the game has Player vs. Player combat and Guild vs. Guild combat would be awesome.  It shouldn't come as a surprise to them at all !!! Links to information should be provided in case they need additional details as well. 

 

5) Level 20+ to be GvGed, due to the hitting ranges involved with GvGing. Is it really cool for a level 30 to smack a level 5 around for an easy win? A level 20 is probably a long shot to beat a level 45 but I think the difference in gear isn't as drastic. 

[ladyjudith]

seeing as they do not lose any xp in a gvg will be up to the other members in their guild to teach them how to play why change something that is a part of the game that all the rest of us had to learn

[RebornJedi]

1) IP Ban all the multi account users. Unless they have given you ample proof that they are not a multi, then they need a suspension for review or outright ban.

oh how i wish this was real!! 

 

this will need its own thread but i just need to toss this addition in.. if 2 accounts are made on the same iP, temp suspend both, and send out an email to both addressing the issue. if 'both' parties can't provide proof, and i know its just not possible for some(scanning iD's to send in), then make them choose the one main account for that iP that will be used by only one player.  

 

i know this might cut down on some sibling playing, and both might decide not to play all together due to hassle of proofing but ooooh how this would cut down on me not having to report soooo many players lol 

[mitzi86]

Honestly, I'm in a guild that we try to recruit lower level players and help them learn. a lot of players are turned right off of this game when they get hit 50 times. The repair cost at that level is difficult. And I have personally seen more then 30 players outright quit just from getting hit.

[Zord]

oh how i wish this was real!! 

 

this will need its own thread but i just need to toss this addition in.. if 2 accounts are made on the same iP, temp suspend both, and send out an email to both addressing the issue. if 'both' parties can't provide proof, and i know its just not possible for some(scanning iD's to send in), then make them choose the one main account for that iP that will be used by only one player.  

 

i know this might cut down on some sibling playing, and both might decide not to play all together due to hassle of proofing but ooooh how this would cut down on me not having to report soooo many players lol 

So people, who have already proven identification since they are living in the same household should get suspended temporary and send ID scans again?

[RebornJedi]

it would probably be best not to make it retroactive .. will just have to weed out the existing multi's through reporting

[Windbattle]

seeing as they do not lose any xp in a gvg will be up to the other members in their guild to teach them how to play why change something that is a part of the game that all the rest of us had to learn

 

at least 90% of guilds suck at teaching. Relying on player generated guilds to teach players all the basics is not a good idea. Also, that is known as the status quo or do nothing option.

 

@mitzi, so what are you suggesting for a solution?

 

Also, planning the multis is only a fraction of the issue at hand. 

[Kedyn]

This has been an age-old debate, and one that we've been discussing since the original changes to GVG. 

 

I voted yes - as it allows newer players to learn the game first. Granted it does require people to level up to GVG/PVP, but so be it. You can't make everyone happy with every update, but if you can sit back and look at it and say "This could make the game a better place", then that's what I vote for. Lower levels who enjoy the game and want to continue to play will adapt to whatever changes are made. 

 

Those who like to GVG have adapted to the changes that were made before, and will continue to adapt to play the game. Most guilds who care about GVG will gear their members and defend, but I would say that 80% of the guilds out there don't care about the GVG aspect. By bringing the RP items into the game, guilds are going to farm. The change to require 2 people to hit minimum hasn't changed much as those who farm RP, will hit guilds that 90% of the time won't hit back. 

 

Whatever choice is made, players will adapt, but in the end, hopefully it makes the game a better place to bring new blood in. 

[Tastria]

I'm entering into the debate a little late, but here goes anyway.  After never having joined a guild, I did so at level 248.  Literally 5 minutes after joining I got hit in a GvG.  I was really ticked off, and took it as a personal affront  I buffed and potioned myself to the max, and started trying to hit targets.  I had no idea of what I was doing, having only the vaguest idea of how this new aspect (to me anyway) worked.  I was guided by the GvG info that comes with the attack screen, nothing more.  Apparently I was a quick study because I got my 50 hits in before any other guild members could enter the fight.  Having given my brief, bloody history, what I've found is that most of the lower levels seem to understand GvG, but don't want to work at it.  They'll be glad to try it IF they're given the gear and the potions, but they don't seem to have much interest.  The players that do have the interest, are the ones who seem to instigate the GvGing against guilds with under level 100 players. For example, one of my friends guild has about  15 members between levels 15 and 65.  Of that number only one has any interest, and they're less than enthusiastic about it.  Protection is probably the best solution, but having said that, a brief bit on GvG needs to be out there where it can be found easily by the newbies. Another is for guilds to have listed someplace the way GvG operates.  

   I've sort of rambled here,  but there is a problem, and any partial solution to it will be welcome. 

[Egami]

And so it goes...

 

I'd suggest reading post #31 (not one of mine) on why GvG protection should NOT be implemented. There are several others, most recently one (didn't take the number) by a player that joined their first Guild and supposedly got smacked in the first 5 minutes, only to retaliate and get all 50 out of 50 hits.

 

So let's keep it simple... here's my question for you:

 

Should new players be protected from mobs for the first 25 levels or 14 days?

 

Yeah... uh... well?

 

IM-not-so-HO, you don't learn a game by winning all the time.

 

A lot of complaints have come out from this post and I've yet to see one without a simple and logical solution.

 

I think the most relevant was a response to one of my posts asking if it was "fair" that a level 25 could farm a new player in rat rags. My response would be that the defending Guild has at least two (and I can think of more) benefits from that: 1. With the right buffs, a rag-wearing new player can beat a level 25. 2. I'd love to have that new player as a target in my Guild so I can retaliation-farm.

 

As far as the complaints about multies... Personally, I report them. Multies are prevalent throughout the game... the solution is getting rid of multies in all aspects of the game. Don't cloud the real issue with it's effect on one single aspect of the game.

 

After six years in the game, I am really leaning towards HCS simply allowing players to have more characters... I know it's a sin and would be "unfair" to those of us who have been here forever... But to me it seems to be a major problem with no solution for those of us that actually follow the rules. Allowing multiple characters might actually put some of the rule-abiding players on the same level as those who take advantage of the system's flaws... who knows? Might even increase HCS profit and save on the workload responding to all my tickets ,oP

 

Prosperous smacking FS (o0

[yotwehc]

Apples and oranges. Mobs don't attack you. And to an extent, I think they moved an SE away so that new players don't accidentally attack it and lose multiple levels. The question is really why do you need to farm noobs? And if they don't learn at lvl 1-25:1-50 then you can always farm them at 26+/51+.

As far as your 2nd suggestion of opening up to multi accounts, I am not sure it's a good idea. I would most certainly be getting involved in pvp with a 2nd character and based on my previous experience with pvp, it would not be good.

[watagashi]

If this is the kind of player you are talking about,,, http://forums.hunted...showtopic=56880

 

I would say note the attitude and especially the post about how hes been banned a couple times for naughty messages to people attacking him,,,perhaps the GvGrs arent the actual problem and just maybe many times those "victims" have brought it on themselves?

[yotwehc]

If this is the kind of player you are talking about,,, http://forums.hunted...showtopic=56880

I would say note the attitude and especially the post about how hes been banned a couple times for naughty messages to people attacking him,,,perhaps the GvGrs arent the actual problem and just maybe many times those "victims" have brought it on themselves?

There are problem folks in all aspects of the game. I haven't checked but based on your response to him, he wouldn't be protected? He's lvl 100+. So the "victim" doesn't apply in this case? I'm talking about true noobs. Say you just started playing a new game and your getting attacked left and right. Some will Learn from it, others will quit. I'm just saying lets get them a chance to play (and get addicted) before they get mashed. I probably would have quit as well when i first started but I guess I got lucky and didn't get mashed too badly when I first started.