510 replies to this topic

[yodamus]

i am also curious, about the time frame between hits from the same player on the same player..does this need to be addressed ?..i fear that for every gain that players who cant be online 24/7 make..that they will lose all their gains when they go to work or sleep to the players that can be online close to 24/7..get hit every hr while they are gone...and come back to 0 xp and back where they started...after awhile they would stop trying the new pvp...therefore making pvp just for those that can be online all day , every day...how to solve this ?

[Mister Doom]

yodamus, on 26 Sept 2014 - 12:24, said:

i am also curious, about the time frame between hits from the same player on the same player..does this need to be addressed ?..i fear that for every gain that players who cant be online 24/7 make..that they will lose all their gains when they go to work or sleep to the players that can be online close to 24/7..get hit every hr while they are gone...and come back to 0 xp and back where they started...after awhile they would stop trying the new pvp...therefore making pvp just for those that can be online all day , every day...how to solve this ?

 

I answered this question to you on the chat yoda.

If you look at the way gaining and losing 'blood' is set up, it is gained at a much more accelerated rate than it is lost.

Someone would have to not pvp very much, and their opponents would have to work very hard in order to zero them each night.

[yodamus]

Mister Doom, on 26 Sept 2014 - 12:41, said:

I answered this question to you on the chat yoda.

If you look at the way gaining and losing 'blood' is set up, it is gained at a much more accelerated rate than it is lost.

Someone would have to not pvp very much, and their opponents would have to work very hard in order to zero them each night.

ok...thxs for answer doom...i had place this question before i had went to chat...asked on chat..fearing my question would get buried here...sounds good , if that is the case..but when updates go live..some things seem to not quite come out as planned...like the arena update..

[yotekiller]

Mister Doom, on 26 Sept 2014 - 11:16, said:

Not sure why this would need to be affected by a change?
That's the only reason I never made mention of it to be honest.

 

 

Mister Doom, on 26 Sept 2014 - 12:41, said:

I answered this question to you on the chat yoda.
If you look at the way gaining and losing 'blood' is set up, it is gained at a much more accelerated rate than it is lost.
Someone would have to not pvp very much, and their opponents would have to work very hard in order to zero them each night.

No offense, but I'm not really looking for answers on the way you think things should happen with the new system. I'm really wanting the people that will be doing the actual design and implementation to tell us what is going to be involved. I know you are doing your best to help flesh out ideas but until the cows say what is going to happen it's just guesswork and speculation on all of our parts.

[yotwehc]

yotekiller, on 26 Sept 2014 - 14:45, said:

No offense, but I'm not really looking for answers on the way you think things should happen with the new system. I'm really wanting the people that will be doing the actual design and implementation to tell us what is going to be involved. I know you are doing your best to help flesh out ideas but until the cows say what is going to happen it's just guesswork and speculation on all of our parts.

I believe this forum is almost like a brain storming session. We are all throwing ideas around. HCS uses some and not others. That's kinda one of the really cool things about this game. Don't be a bystander awaiting the final word, throw your idea out there!

[Mister Doom]

yotekiller, on 26 Sept 2014 - 14:45, said:

 

 
No offense, but I'm not really looking for answers on the way you think things should happen with the new system. I'm really wanting the people that will be doing the actual design and implementation to tell us what is going to be involved. I know you are doing your best to help flesh out ideas but until the cows say what is going to happen it's just guesswork and speculation on all of our parts.

 

Yep definitely I agree. I actually suggested to Grim that they create an official thread, to give a bit more credibility?

He has made quite a few posts about the new idea lately in the various threads and global chat. So it's not 'all' just speculation, although there definitely is some I'd agree.

As chewy pointed out also though, this thread  is open to all for input and ideas etc etc.

[bleacher12]

Long thread so pardon me if this is a repeat, but can guild mates be hit too? Or is the restriction killing higher level ladders going to remain of not being able to hit guild mates?

From what I've understood so far of the idea of PVPXP it seems to be guild agnostic and built in to make cheating by dressing down for guild mates unrewarding so this shouldn't be an issue.

 

I think this is particularly important for higher level PVPers especially if the attack ranges are going to be limited to to VL as with current PVP.

Edited by bleacher12, 26 September 2014 - 16:04.

[bleacher12]

Also, can we get some clarity from the cows on whether we'll be allowed to simultaneously dress separately for regular XP vs PVPXP?

 

Ideally not, as with the current environment players should need to choose between sitting in stam gear and being easy targets or defending their PVPXP.

[avvakum]

BigGrim, on 26 Sept 2014 - 08:57, said:

 

That sounds promising. Tying the theft to PvPXp level could work. More PvPXP, more gold stolen.

 

 

Just a kind reminder that Master Thief is a small chance to steal all of targets gold. 

 

The whole thing reminds me a heart transplant surgery performed using Google.

 

"We need you to draw seven red lines. All of them strictly perpendicular;  some with green ink and some with transparent.  Can you do that?"

 

Edited by avvakum, 28 September 2014 - 06:47.

[yotekiller]

yotwehc, on 26 Sept 2014 - 15:06, said:

I believe this forum is almost like a brain storming session. We are all throwing ideas around. HCS uses some and not others. That's kinda one of the really cool things about this game. Don't be a bystander awaiting the final word, throw your idea out there!

 

 

Mister Doom, on 26 Sept 2014 - 15:25, said:

Yep definitely I agree. I actually suggested to Grim that they create an official thread, to give a bit more credibility?

He has made quite a few posts about the new idea lately in the various threads and global chat. So it's not 'all' just speculation, although there definitely is some I'd agree.

As chewy pointed out also though, this thread  is open to all for input and ideas etc etc.

  Just so people that don't know me will get an idea of where I'm coming from, I have a Diamond Monthly Top 10 medal and I'm still #11, even after getting into pvp, so I do know a thing or two about the leveling side of the game.  I also really enjoy the pvp side, mostly because it brought a lot of excitement to the game after I grew extremely bored of 1-2-3, rinse and repeat.  It's no secret that I am against changing the current pvp system and I will be the first to admit it's not perfect but it's pretty good.  It's also pretty obvious that I am fighting a losing battle to preserve xp loss in pvp.

 Having said all that, I see a real danger in the way these topics are progressing.  There are a lot of ideas being thrown out, which is good because more input can lead to a better product.  The problem is that there is very little being done to narrow down and fine tune all of those ideas so we are still left with a lot of guesswork about what the final product will actually entail.  We are talking about the single biggest change the game has seen, we should still be in very rough draft mode but I am getting the distinct impression this could be implemented at any moment.  We have a freight train running down hill, gaining speed by the second, and nothing is slowing it down.  How many times have we seen things implemented, only to be quickly changed because the idea was put in place before it could be thoroughly explored?  That's why I'm trying to get things nailed down by the admins.  We still have a huge number of unknowns and what-ifs attached to this change, not to mention any possible exploits the new system may bring about.

 Is there a timeline for these changes?  Will there be discussion about the final product BEFORE the changes are made?  Will there be any way of testing the changes before they are implemented in to the game?

 

Questions I have right now -

 

1)  I'd still like to know about how the Prestige system will work.  Has this even been considered?  It's pretty tough to take something away that people have worked for but if you leave Prestige it will just give an added bonus to those that participate in the new pvp system.  So I make a gold hit, get Prestige, lose no XP (just rating) on the BB and have a bonus when I level up.  Sounds great to me but does my target feel like I was actually punished?  If they are a pvp hater the answer is a resounding no.

 

2)  I saw Grim posted that rating would be converted to tokens on a monthly basis.  Really?  And then what?  Will everyone's rating will be reset to start point?  Those that have earned rating will get rewarded while those that have ignored pvp get a free monthly reset to start point?  How is it fair to the pvp'ers that the non-pvp'ers don't have to work their way back up if they decide later to pursue rewards?  At least tell me players will need to have a positive rating to get tokens but that still brings up the issue of trading for rating.  Resetting everyone to start point every month just makes trading easier.  If you earn rating this month, you should get your reward and keep your rating.  If you lose rating, it stays low until you decide to actively participate enough to raise it back up.  Furthermore, a timed reset was tried and failed on the ladder.  You had little to no activity until the closing moments when everyone tried to get in a flurry of hits to win it all.  Do we really want to go through that again?  In order to make the reset meaningful you will have to randomize the reset, by a LOT.  7-28 days would guarantee enough variance that players would actually engage without being able to guess when a reset might occur.

 

Once again, I really feel like we need to slow things down just a bit to make sure we cover as many scenarios as possible BEFORE implementation.

[BadPenny]

bleacher12, on 26 Sept 2014 - 16:09, said:

Also, can we get some clarity from the cows on whether we'll be allowed to simultaneously dress separately for regular XP vs PVPXP?

 

Ideally not, as with the current environment players should need to choose between sitting in stam gear and being easy targets or defending their PVPXP.

How would this work, exactly?  Please don't confuse Penny, it's mean...

[shindrak]

BadPenny, on 27 Sept 2014 - 01:04, said:

How would this work, exactly?  Please don't confuse Penny, it's mean...

I think he doesnt want to lose PVP XP too while wearing epic gears

Edited by shindrak, 27 September 2014 - 04:10.

[Mister Doom]

yotekiller, on 27 Sept 2014 - 00:15, said:

  Questions I have right now -

 

1)  I'd still like to know about how the Prestige system will work.  Has this even been considered?  It's pretty tough to take something away that people have worked for but if you leave Prestige it will just give an added bonus to those that participate in the new pvp system.  So I make a gold hit, get Prestige, lose no XP (just rating) on the BB and have a bonus when I level up.  Sounds great to me but does my target feel like I was actually punished?  If they are a pvp hater the answer is a resounding no.

 

2)  I saw Grim posted that rating would be converted to tokens on a monthly basis.  Really?  And then what?  Will everyone's rating will be reset to start point?  Those that have earned rating will get rewarded while those that have ignored pvp get a free monthly reset to start point?  How is it fair to the pvp'ers that the non-pvp'ers don't have to work their way back up if they decide later to pursue rewards?  At least tell me players will need to have a positive rating to get tokens but that still brings up the issue of trading for rating.  Resetting everyone to start point every month just makes trading easier.  If you earn rating this month, you should get your reward and keep your rating.  If you lose rating, it stays low until you decide to actively participate enough to raise it back up.  Furthermore, a timed reset was tried and failed on the ladder.  You had little to no activity until the closing moments when everyone tried to get in a flurry of hits to win it all.  Do we really want to go through that again?  In order to make the reset meaningful you will have to randomize the reset, by a LOT.  7-28 days would guarantee enough variance that players would actually engage without being able to guess when a reset might occur.

 

Once again, I really feel like we need to slow things down just a bit to make sure we cover as many scenarios as possible BEFORE implementation.

 

1, The answer to the prestige question is fairly simple. You need only tie gaining prestige to the gaining of blood. If you attack a non participant you will gain the bare minimum amount of blood, so simply tie the gaining of prestige to anything above the gaining of the bare minimum amount of blood. That way you would only gain prestige from attacking a fellow participant in the pvp game. (which surely should be more prestigious anyway, and a way for those that partake in the blood game to have a way to not fall too far behind with their levelling) and you have a winner...

 

2, The topic was actually discussed with Grim a bit. The idea is to have a current and a lifetime 'blood' count in your profile.

The current would be used to award pvp tokens and would be the only one to reset, the lifetime one would never reset and it would be the one being used to track your top rated lists etc. (this is actually laid out in the original post however)

Edited by Mister Doom, 27 September 2014 - 08:20.

[suderlon]

hi doom, can you add the option "opt-in" like current pvp ladder system for your system? I do not want to be forced to play that system, current pvp ladder forces nobody to participate, you have to "opt-in" to participate, your system forces everyone

 

this way I could still be attacked for gold like our current system, why force players to play this system if they do not want to, if someone wants to participate in this system then he "opts-in"

 

I am busy in RL and do not have the time to keep my character buffed

this system will bring lots of attacking and since I will not participate in it I will be under lot of attack, bountying will only make it worse for me because I am not only losing gold by placing the bounty, I am losing gold on hand when I get attacked and losing gold to repair my offline setup

 

the "opt-in" option will be perfect to not force players and what is the point in pvp if you hit an offline player for days, I do not have the luxury like some other players to log-in daily for many hours

 

please add the "opt-in" option

[Mister Doom]

suderlon, on 27 Sept 2014 - 08:20, said:

hi doom, can you add the option "opt-in" like current pvp ladder system for your system? I do not want to be forced to play that system, current pvp ladder forces nobody to participate, you have to "opt-in" to participate, your system forces everyone

 

this way I could still be attacked for gold like our current system, why force players to play this system if they do not want to, if someone wants to participate in this system then he "opts-in"

 

I am busy in RL and do not have the time to keep my character buffed

this system will bring lots of attacking and since I will not participate in it I will be under lot of attack, bountying will only make it worse for me because I am not only losing gold by placing the bounty, I am losing gold on hand when I get attacked and losing gold to repair my offline setup

 

the "opt-in" option will be perfect to not force players and what is the point in pvp if you hit an offline player for days, I do not have the luxury like some other players to log-in daily for many hours

 

please add the "opt-in" option

 

The reason there isn't an opt-in is because gaining blood from a non participant will be so low it won't be viable for a player wanting to rank in their blood top rated to attack a non participant.

 

To be clearer though, this system is designed to replace pvp, not just the pvp ladder. You can't have an opt-in for regular pvp.

[suderlon]

Mister Doom, on 27 Sept 2014 - 08:41, said:

The reason there isn't an opt-in is because gaining blood from a non participant will be so low it won't be viable for a player wanting to rank in their blood top rated to attack a non participant.

 

To be clearer though, this system is designed to replace pvp, not just the pvp ladder. You can't have an opt-in for regular pvp.

why can not there be on "opt-in"? it is a new system so there should be no problem adding it

 

I do not want to be forced to play this blood system, I want to have the choice to choose!

 

forcing me to play this system and getting hit multiple times when I do not even want to participate is just wrong

 

even if the blood gain is low from someone like me who does not want to play it, I can get hourly hit

 

if I decide to try and play this blood thing then I will make sure that I have the time to be online wearing a pvp setup and being buffed

in this blood system the players who are more online have a huge advantage

I will be at a disadvantage because of my limited time I can be online

 

only the "opt-in" option does not force me and pvp should not be forced upon anyone

[Mister Doom]

suderlon, on 27 Sept 2014 - 08:56, said:

why can not there be on "opt-in"? it is a new system so there should be no problem adding it

 

I do not want to be forced to play this blood system, I want to have the choice to choose!

 

forcing me to play this system and getting hit multiple times when I do not even want to participate is just wrong

 

even if the blood gain is low from someone like me who does not want to play it, I can get hourly hit

 

if I decide to try and play this blood thing then I will make sure that I have the time to be online wearing a pvp setup and being buffed

in this blood system the players who are more online have a huge advantage

I will be at a disadvantage because of my limited time I can be online

 

only the "opt-in" option does not force me and pvp should not be forced upon anyone

 

You can get hourly hits from pvp as it stands now, you will be no more of an appealing target in the suggestion being made here.

 

Getting hourly hit by someone wanting to partake in the blood system would be pointless, the amounts they take from you in say, a ten hour time period would amount to perhaps one hit from another blood player.

 

I don't think you're quite understanding the idea fully...

[avvakum]

Mister Doom, on 27 Sept 2014 - 09:05, said:

You can get hourly hits from pvp as it stands now, you will be no more of an appealing target in the suggestion being made here.

 

Getting hourly hit by someone wanting to partake in the blood system would be pointless, the amounts they take from you in say, a ten hour time period would amount to perhaps one hit from another blood player.

 

I don't think you're quite understanding the idea fully...

As it stands now, hourly hits can be bountied and the attackers will lose XP/Levels - they will need time to regain these levels at some point. Appealing or not appealing is subjective - if I don't have to spend my time on regaining levels, then all players will be appealing targets to me, even if they hold just 10k gold. 

 

Are you seriously building this "system" on an assumption that hitting someone, who doesn't want to be hit, will be "pointless"? You will make it even worse; unless player's pvp lvl will be his max equip level and attacking range. 

Edited by avvakum, 27 September 2014 - 10:27.

[Mister Doom]

avvakum, on 27 Sept 2014 - 10:24, said:

As it stands now, hourly hits can be bountied and the attackers will lose XP/Levels - they will need time to regain these levels at some point. Appealing or not appealing is subjective - if I don't have to spend my time on regaining levels, then all players will be appealing targets for me, even if they hold just 10k gold. 

 

Are you seriously building this "system" on an assumption that hitting someone, who doesn't want to be hit, will be "pointless"? You will make it even worse; unless player's pvp lvl will be his max equip level and attacking range. 

 

Not at all avvakum. The system is being built partly on the assumption that blood will be worthwhile for people to acquire. And thus they'll not want to risk it for little amounts of gold.

 

However, as this gold subject seems to be a sticking point for some, another solution has also been put forward. Make gold thievery always available, however adjust the amounts so that gold thievery becomes more lucrative the higher the amounts of blood you currently have. This idea seems to have been quite well received by some, including Grim. I just haven't gotten around to including it into the main post as of yet.

Edited by Mister Doom, 27 September 2014 - 10:31.

[Davros81]

avvakum, on 27 Sept 2014 - 10:24, said:

As it stands now, hourly hits can be bountied and the attackers will lose XP/Levels - they will need time to regain these levels at some point. Appealing or not appealing is subjective - if I don't have to spend my time on regaining levels, then all players will be appealing targets to me, even if they hold just 10k gold. 

 

Are you seriously building this "system" on an assumption that hitting someone, who doesn't want to be hit, will be "pointless"? You will make it even worse; unless player's pvp lvl will be his max equip level and attacking range. 

 

Nail. Hit. Head. On! rearrange these words and you have the massive point that has been missed in this system.

 

Furthermore I detest the idea that the new "xp" which is to be transferred be called "blood" it is a horrible idea, truly horrible, please call it Prowess or something less grotesque!!