Posted 11 April 2014 - 01:34
I know from personal experience that this is simply false. I had it happen to me a number of times and is the sole reason I gave up bounty hunting after only clearing 18 bounties. Maybe things have changed but I am not going to lose another 5 levels to find out.
I will put anything up that there is more to this typical story of losing 5 levels for a 10 stam clear... anything!
[Signature removed]
“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM
Posted 11 April 2014 - 02:52
Having spoken with Hoofmaster, we're seriously reconsidering the PvP Ladder system. We're looking to review it, possibly removing it and replacing it with the original PvP system. We think that might help. I personally think the ladder watered PvP down.
Now this I think is a good idea.. But Counter Bounty needs to stay in the game... Our Guild hit one guy for 40 levels he put all hitters up on the Board we had 6 full pages.... That is why the counter needs to stat... Risk is a big part of bounty hunting... If the no counter gets in the the Game the Bounty Board will be dead...
Posted 11 April 2014 - 03:56
[Signature removed]
“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM
Posted 11 April 2014 - 04:05
I agree +1No offense Grim but I've been waiting weeks to hear some Hoof ideas. While it's nice of you to post yours and relay what's going on behind the scenes, it would be even better to get the big cowmaster himself spitting out thoughts in the forum, like back in the day... He's always been the ultimate say anyways. Enough of all this speculation.
Posted 11 April 2014 - 04:09
Fix it. I've been waiting for years, I haven't given up on this game. Bring pvp back, it was fine once. Watering it down more only hurts everyone. I don't know what else to say that has not been said already. When a road you take doesn't work out, forget the time you wasted on it, just get off. What difference does it make, if everything turns out well in the end? Take us back to how we were. It wasn't broken.
Edited by bunnybee, 11 April 2014 - 04:09.
Posted 11 April 2014 - 04:15
Plus I would love to see PvP go back to how it originally was in the first year this game was made.
I don't mind that BUT things have progressed and surely not even close to what I'd like to see. Oh well, that I can live with. What I'd really like to see is the game become harder, for everyone! PvE, PvP, the whole enchilada. How boring has this game become? The devs need to do something that helps CHALLENGE players of all interests. We haven't seen anything new, which in a way is a good thing, but we certainly can enjoy something old that's been remodeled, extensively.
[Signature removed]
“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM
Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:11
Now I am done. I felt I should give Mzz her reply. Have a great day everyone!
Thanxx for the reply. I still believe it'd cause pvp to fade away though.
I was gonna write a longer reply, but my brain is behaving more like a small teaspoon of jelly than an actual brain atm, so it won't process my thoughts into english in a coherent way... lol... I'll check back later after some sleep.
very good points that you had the clarity to see, as much as belaric may have found truth in the decline of the bb i cant say but i try and stay balanced where possible and i saw that his idea would literally leave some pvpers unable to pvp as much as they were thus giving all the new bounty hunters less to do cos seriously how many less donating pvpers can gain back 50 levels a week or second week if they had the want to hit on enough occassions, honestly it would be limiting and then etc etc.
edit: 17 hits aint much AND id bet thered be 50+ players thatd love to smack pvpers round with no chance of payback
Posted 11 April 2014 - 18:47
I was going to leave this thread alone as I felt I had said everything I really needed to say on the subject, and the matter was in the hands of HCS.
For what it is worth I have advocated trial runs of new PvP changes in future. A month was my suggested time frame to give HCS the time to analyse the effects on the game of any new ideas. I'm cool with that. It depends if HCS can justify coding development time on an idea that may run for a month and then be withdrawn - either to build a version of this idea or to undo coding and recreate the original system - both may be quite labour intensive, and not make sense to do both tasks if only one will be used, unfortunately - I wish it were otherwise, but HCS has to manage their employees time effectively. So we will have to see what they decide to do. We have put our ideas up for consideration.
However when I read this I was reminded of one thing I have not addressed. Victim blaming by the PvP community to justify their act of counter bounty on the board. I think it is reprehensible. So on seeing this I feel I must respond.
I will put anything up that there is more to this typical story of losing 5 levels for a 10 stam clear... anything!
Luis, this is unworthy, and it is not fair.
It is victim blaming.
You are basically saying "I don't know what happened but I bet he deserved it!" That sounds very reasonable - full of measured reflection. How do you know? What objective grounds do you have? None. Typical story - you admit that this happens with frequency then. Do you assume that EVERY time someone gets hit back on the BB they did something to deserve it? That is self serving self justification of your act to choose to escalate the conflict, CB and get your buddies to hit back. If you are incapable of ever admitting your side can do wrong then where are we?
Victim blaming is wrong. It is an ugly tactic used to justify ugly practices, and should be stopped.
It is self-serving propaganda to justify the act you want to commit - which is to counter bounty people.
Whose rules are being broken? Who is judging whether or not a person should be hit back for taking a bounty? Your rules, your decision, you have all the power, and not surprisingly, you like it that way.
It is the PvP players who make the first hit, who actually have a choice to act. See up thread for why all the choices a Non-PvP player are negative once he has been hit.
They are all negative because of Counter bounty and the ability of the initial aggressor (the PvP player posted to the board) to use it first in every circumstance.
The excuses for using CB have been dressed up in codes and rules, all unwritten and unenforceable. And upheld by people who interest is to preserve their power over the BB, whose interest is in continued hitting. It's what you do.
I'd respect you all a lot more if you just came out and admitted "We like using CB because if we keep hitting people back on the board for taking our bounties or delevelling us, eventually they go away, and we get to do our gold hits/ any hits without fear of retribution. We created our codes of conduct as a smokescreen to justify our naked self interest and advancement of our position within the game." Because that is what your actions add up to. Maybe you have not considered it in that way. But that is how it looks to folk outside of the PvP loop.
If it isn't a 100 stam clear that is wrong, it is a 10 stam at the wrong time. What is the BH'er to do - hit between 6 and 9 eastern standard time, holding a carrot in his right hand while chanting hail mary's? Would that be acceptable? No sorry - should have been the left hand - Counter Bounty time! That is how absurd your justifications are.
Instead we get ever more flimsy excuses to hit back and use counter bounty. Each one tailored to the specific context of the complaint raised, to find a way to blame the bounty hunter for your choice to hit him back. If you can't use real rules to win your argument you invoke your imaginary rules that your community supposedly agrees to. Is there a charter somewhere you sign? Can we see it? Maybe you just want to counter bounty because you are bored and your friends want something to do. Admit that then, but don't try to take some sort of bogus moral high ground and say you are 'punishing' people for doing the 'wrong thing' on the board. The only wrong thing they are doing is hitting you, which you don't like, but you deserve, because you chose to hit someone else first. If you are unwilling to admit that truth either, then again we are at an impasse. The only people who deserve to be on the board are the people who make attacks off the board. You get there no other way. You are there to be punished for that act. The victim doesn't post you so you can have fun dancing the BB, he posts you so you can be punished for hitting him. You should never have been given counter bounty, as whatever fair use it may have been originally put to, there isn't much left.
Ultimately this is not about examples, and individual verbal acts of dexterity to produce a new justification for the act of CBing - though I personally find it hypocritical. Why? Because you reserve the right to 100 stam people when you counter bounty, but somehow it is not okay for you to be even 10 stammed, if you can find some pretext to CB. One rule for you, one rule for the rest of us. Simple straight hypocrisy. Unless you 10 stam folk when you counter bounty them to show them how is should be done??
It is about the game rules. If you have an unwritten rule that says you'd 'never' CB a 10 stam clear, then why do you resist the idea that 10 stam clears be immune from bounty? Why not let the unwritten rule become actual game code?
Because they could be abused in the current system - though it would take a lot of work.
So then, change the current system: remove the BH's choice of whether to 10 or 100 stam, if you make the punishment set by the victim, and the BH the simple enforcer of that punishment with no discretion of his own - most of your excuses for CB go away. You don't have your unwritten rules to get bent out of shape over - there is the crime, and the choice of punishment. 10 stam, 100 stam doesn't matter. This "don't hit me near my bounty expiry time" excuse for CB is ridiculous. And some within the PvP community agree it is a poor argument - which proves you are not a monolithic block of players all in agreement, and do not all follow the same rules. If you do not all follow the same rules, why should we have faith in them at all, or believe that just because one person says they follow a particular rule - that the next guy will have any reason to do so? There is none - because the rules are not real, not enshrined in game code. Your rules mean nothing because there is no way of knowing who will choose to adhere to them, or when. They undermine faith in your community. You have to take your lumps. You made the first hit, you CHOSE to attack someone without warning - they should get their chance to administer punishment. As Mzz said - some people will never want to PvP - so giving them free hits back does not work. But allowing them to set a punishment does - if they are prepared to pay for it. That way they feel they do not remain victims, they become participants.
BH should be immune to CB so they can not be repeatedly hit when trying to do their jobs and driven out of the game. I have argued this is what has happened over the years on the BB. The PvP community is motivated, organised and tightknit (look at you all here on this thread!!) - you have worked well together, and defeated all comers, but defeat via CB is crushing - it is who can keep losing 5 longest, and acts as a disincentive to come back, sooner or later. Who is going to keep playing a game where their opponents get to call for back up first and overwhelm them with numbers every time? The dead BB is proof of the disincentive CB has become to try using the BB as punishment for the original off board attack.
So please do not blame the victim here. You are blaming the victim of CB on the BB using your rules and your justifications, none of which are actual game rules, and none of which are verifiable or enforceable. We only ever have your word to take for it, and why should we be forced to accept your word? I'd rather have a clear and objective rule, that is consistent for all, thank you. You can deny anyone ever gets CB'd for a simple clear. People keep saying they did. Who should we believe, the onlookers to this argument? You then try to tell them it was their fault. Their fault for trying to complete a bounty on someone who chose to hit another player. You are trying to make yourselves look good and sound honourable while trying to escape punishment for your original primary act of aggression.
Blaming the victim ultimately makes you look weak. If your justifications for CB were so strong, you would let them become actual game rules - no CB on a 10 stam clear. You resist that. Because 20 people might get together to delevel you using 10 stam hits. How likely is that? You hide behind your ever shifting codes because you just like the ability, and enjoy the advantage of CB.
One more time - victim blaming is ugly, and it is wrong. You should not have to resort to it to justify your behaviour. You should be better than that. It is yet another reason why the wider community has walked away from and does not engage in PvP - if someone is going to be told it is their fault they just lost 5 when they did nothing wrong, they are not going to be inclined to play that game, with those people again - trust is lost. The PvP game community shrinks with each person who decides not to bounty hunt any longer.
The system needs clarity and consistency, not unwritten rules and codes of behaviour that suit the makers of those codes. Doesn't have to be my ideas, could be none of them, I don't care, but the system needs to be clear and fair for all to see, otherwise you will never get more people to willingly participate in it.
No more victim blaming.
Edited by Belaric, 11 April 2014 - 20:46.
Good-bye and hello, as always.
Posted 11 April 2014 - 21:08
It's fricken Fallen Sword, a computer game that ANYONE can turn off and walk away from at any time they are feeling 'victimized'.
Yes, it's a game - and yes, anyone who feels victimized does have the option to walk away from the game at any point for whatever reason.
BUT, given the diminishing player numbers, do we REALLY want players driving other players away ?
(I'm casting no personal blame on you here, I don't know you, so don't take it as a personal dig .. )
Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.
Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?
I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...
Posted 11 April 2014 - 21:22
Do you think any part of this topic is going to help bring in players? It's just a bunch of rants and flaming at this point. Leveling has chased more of my friends out of the game then PvP ever has. Surprising to you, I'm sure. But still true. I started out as a leveler, but if it hadn't been for PvP I'd have quit the game ages ago. I don't judge you for not liking pvp. But that rant just posted by the OP, who I replied too with your quoted comment, is the perfect example of why HCS needs to step the hell in, make a decision, and stick to it!
By the way, I don't take any of this forum stuff personal. I'm nothing more then a bunch of text on your computer screen. There is nothing personal about that. 
Edited by Calista, 11 April 2014 - 21:28.
Posted 11 April 2014 - 21:43
I first want restate that I'm coming at this topic from the POV of the bounty hunter. If this did cause more bounty board (which I very much doubt), it would be a huge stam suck. The average bounty would take 1000 to 1500 stam to complete this is almost 1/2 days stam gain for 1 bounty. As far as the op's contention that the greater rewards would justify this effort, (which I again doubt very much doubt) what happens to all the newbie hunters that don't complete the bounty and have wasted all of there stam for nothing. Please don't insult my intelligence again by comparing tkp's to ticks toward a smasher medal.
I also want to address the added incentive for PVPers to outlast a bounty in form of a new medal. What happens to the extra gold posted as a reward? I assume it is sunk. How much satisfaction does this bring to the poster?
Posted 11 April 2014 - 21:58
I love how PvP becomes the poster child for population decrease in FS - it couldn't be leveling lacking challenge; or content not being released fast enough (those two are related), or crashing of market on items of high value being suddenly released / breaking someones bank, nope..none of those - it's all due to PvP bullies - such one sided nonsense -and represents opinions. I know as many people who have retired from game for a multitude of reasons -stop riding that horse already , it makes you appear desperate, reaching.
Posted 11 April 2014 - 22:00
I will put anything up that there is more to this typical story of losing 5 levels for a 10 stam clear... anything!
Luis, this is unworthy, and it is not fair.
It is victim blaming.
You are basically saying "I don't know what happened but I bet he deserved it!" That sounds very reasonable - full of measured reflection. How do you know? What objective grounds do you have? None. Typical story - you admit that this happens with frequency then. Do you assume that EVERY time someone gets hit back on the BB they did something to deserve it? That is self serving self justification of your act to choose to escalate the conflict, CB and get your buddies to hit back. If you are incapable of ever admitting your side can do wrong then where are we?
Victim blaming is wrong. It is an ugly tactic used to justify ugly practices, and should be stopped.
It is self-serving propaganda to justify the act you want to commit - which is to counter bounty people.
Bela, now that you have addressed me personally I feel obliged to respond to one of your many novelettes. I, however, will be brief.
So you're clear, yes I do not know specifically the circumstances regarding the player who posted he was dropped 5 for a 10 stam clear. I only said I would wager anything that there was more to the story. If you like you could have a full investigation. I stand by my bet.
What I am absolutely certain is that previous players, like one of your own guildmates, has claimed he was "rewarded" for a 10 stam clear by being dropped 5 levels. Read it here:
http://forums.hunted...e=1#entry847914
His was a false and misleading claim. I know, I'm the one who had him dropped. He deserved it.
Now what you continue to claim, as I understand it, is that players are making up propaganda like a Joseph Goebbels and that the Gestapo is enforcing unwritten rules which appears a bit hyperbolic. Here is why:
#1 This is a GAME. The only victims are zeros and ones.
#2 It is a game that involves virtual conflict between players. If a player is emotionally conflicted cease play and consult a mental health care provider immediately.
#3 A player can now opt out of losing any of their precious xp in TWO ways. First, by purchasing xp lock which lasts forever for 25 dots. Secondly, by purchasing PvP Protection for one, seven or 28 days for the extremely low sum of 2, 10, and 30 dots respectively.
#4 You can actually "fight" back. Play the game! But players want the easiest road - more buffs, automated punishment, and win buttons. Again players need to remember that we play in a virtual game world. If there is too much emotional distress please heed the warning above to seek help at the very least.
And #4 is really the one that I want to address for many reasons but mostly because so many have attempted before you to automate the punishment directed against an attacker. There are a few extreme examples, but for the most part don't carry too much gold and don't talk junk and you will be fine without losing xp. Otherwise, if you don't want to fight back with guildmates or friends post them up on the BB and let whoever wants clear them with 100s or 10s. If the bounty expires it's because the player bountied fought hard for 48 hrs. Anyways, HCS deals with player reports on a daily basis to resolve players who are being threatened or abused. This game has never been about single character play, hence we have guilds and allies, and even enemies. Do players really think guilds are all about free buffs and gear? I beg to differ...
If Hoof wants to abolish PvP, meaning risk and conflict in his game or even use your idea of automated punishment. So be it. I know I can move on. What you're suggesting he do is, in my humble opinion, make it even easier to play when in fact it needs to be made harder.
[Signature removed]
“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM
Posted 11 April 2014 - 22:54
I think that all this thread has proven is that the two camps are, as ever, polarised.
One side wants PvP changing to allow the person attacked more say in the punishment (via whatever means)
The other side wants PvP reverting back to it's "glory days"
And, it seems, never the twain shall meet.
Like pretty much ALL threads on PvP, this one has degenerated into name-calling, trolling and has out-lived its usefulness IMO ...
Edited by Pardoux, 11 April 2014 - 22:56.
Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.
Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?
I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...
Posted 11 April 2014 - 23:21
Posted 12 April 2014 - 00:08
simple solution if both sides could compromise- for levelers- 100 stam hit = 1-2% xp loss, 10 stam hit = .1-.2 xp loss....then for the pvpers - much much increase in gold theft rates..a 10 stam hit takes at least 10% of gold..100 stam hit takes minimum 50% gold and if master theft kicks in- 80 to 100% gold taken...but then compromises are not part of this game evidently- someone will disagree some part of this solution
Posted 12 April 2014 - 00:53
Bela, now that you have addressed me personally I feel obliged to respond to one of your many novelettes. I, however, will be brief.
So you're clear, yes I do not know specifically the circumstances regarding the player who posted he was dropped 5 for a 10 stam clear. I only said I would wager anything that there was more to the story. If you like you could have a full investigation. I stand by my bet.
What I am absolutely certain is that previous players, like one of your own guildmates, has claimed he was "rewarded" for a 10 stam clear by being dropped 5 levels. Read it here:
http://forums.hunted...e=1#entry847914
His was a false and misleading claim. I know, I'm the one who had him dropped. He deserved it.
Now what you continue to claim, as I understand it, is that players are making up propaganda like a Joseph Goebbels and that the Gestapo is enforcing unwritten rules which appears a bit hyperbolic. Here is why:
#1 This is a GAME. The only victims are zeros and ones.
#2 It is a game that involves virtual conflict between players. If a player is emotionally conflicted cease play and consult a mental health care provider immediately.
#3 A player can now opt out of losing any of their precious xp in TWO ways. First, by purchasing xp lock which lasts forever for 25 dots. Secondly, by purchasing PvP Protection for one, seven or 28 days for the extremely low sum of 2, 10, and 30 dots respectively.
#4 You can actually "fight" back. Play the game! But players want the easiest road - more buffs, automated punishment, and win buttons. Again players need to remember that we play in a virtual game world. If there is too much emotional distress please heed the warning above to seek help at the very least.
And #4 is really the one that I want to address for many reasons but mostly because so many have attempted before you to automate the punishment directed against an attacker. There are a few extreme examples, but for the most part don't carry too much gold and don't talk junk and you will be fine without losing xp. Otherwise, if you don't want to fight back with guildmates or friends post them up on the BB and let whoever wants clear them with 100s or 10s. If the bounty expires it's because the player bountied fought hard for 48 hrs. Anyways, HCS deals with player reports on a daily basis to resolve players who are being threatened or abused. This game has never been about single character play, hence we have guilds and allies, and even enemies. Do players really think guilds are all about free buffs and gear? I beg to differ...
If Hoof wants to abolish PvP, meaning risk and conflict in his game or even use your idea of automated punishment. So be it. I know I can move on. What you're suggesting he do is, in my humble opinion, make it even easier to play when in fact it needs to be made harder.
Thanks for the response Luis, I appreciate it, and your calm tone.
This is not about an isolated incident. I was on that thread you'll notice. I wanted at the time for it to be agreed to be done. You believe you were in the right there. I'm not going to dispute your beliefs. Just as I will not dispute my guildmate's beliefs. So we are at impasse. I was and am very glad to let that go. You won't believe me I'm sure, but this thread and that are not in any way linked. I woke up one morning with an idea and it wouldn't go away. I knew it would not go over well, but it wouldn't let go. So I shared it - to get it out of my system. Many posts later here we are.
Don't invoke the nazis - never a good sign. I have used the word propaganda (without ever mentioning Joseph)- because for years non-pvPers have been told about 'risk' and 'choice' and various other useful fictions that justify the current system and that I believe I have shown to be bogus. So there have been years of threads on this forum where mistruths - to my mind, have been peddled, and allowed to go unchallenged. I have, over the course of this thread given a counter argument to them all. This is why it is not short. I think the emperor has precious few clothes on. You can disagree. I'm not going to hash it out again - I believe my words speak for themselves.
#1 I agree it is a game. Time to take a step back and chill.
#2 If they are emotionally conflicted yes. If they cease play because they see no benefit to continuing and have their fun impeded when they may otherwise have stuck around and contributed that is a loss for the game. The two are not the same - do not conflate them.
#3 Yes they can. My point is not about precious XP loss. It is about a sense that The BB is unbalanced and favours one side. It is about PvP players holding all the aces in a conflict, and then wondering why the BB is dead and no-one is using it. And worse still being somehow oblivious that they hold all the cards. XP loss is a consequence of that imbalance. You can and do disagree with my analysis. That is fine.
#4 Fighting back is a losing proposition, as I have explained. And what about the players who just want to avoid Pvp but cannot? XP losk is expensive, PvP protection is temporary. I thought we could make more people participate and realise there is nothing to fear. That PvP could be more inclusive. Maybe I overreached - fair enough. If the current system were fairer - you'd see more people fighting back, more people posting and more people bounty hunting. The current system does not encourage fighting back as the person who hits back/bounties is always at a disadvantage. Largely through the device of counter bounty. I have explained why I think this is so already over many novel length posts. I have show how the choices a person faces after the initial attack are all negative - largely due to counter bounty being in the hands of PvP players from the start. You can ignore or discount my logic as you wish. I am not invested in it beyond trying to find a way to improve the game. And I know it is not my game to improve - it is HCS'. They can decide whose argument holds water, how it would effect their bottom line, and what they can do about it. Further - they can analyse what data they have and that we lack to make an informed decision.
Nowhere do I mention or desire automation. Nowhere. I suggest the victim be allowed to choose the amount of XP loss his or her attacker suffers, and pays on a sliding scale for increased XP loss. Nothing is automated, a bounty hunter still has to accept the bounty and try to deliver the required XP loss.
I would argue that the bounty hunter having the discretion to choose how hard to hit is a central aspect of why the BB does not work. If you think removing that choice is automation then we have different definitions.
It occurred to me this afternoon that another way to avoid confusion on the Bb would be to have it impossible to hit the posted player harder than he hit his target. thus 10 stam hits can only be hit by 10 stam bounties, and so forth. I'm sure there would be lots of opposition to that idea too - but removing ambiguity from the BH's actions removes the need for 'codes' that have no basis in game rules, and can be bent and shaped as the faction who controls them wishes in order to justify their actions.
I have repeatedly said that PvP guilds and players have used legal means and played the game well to dominate the Board. The counter bounty is legal, but a bad mechanic that repeatedly gives the advantage to motivated and organised pvp guilds. You can say (and have) - suck it up and fight back - but a rational player or group of players will not do that repeatedly - losing a counter bounty battle or war is an expensive and lasting lesson. Try again once, maybe, and then decide it might not be worth bothering. Have you not seen people who used to play on the BB and who used to fight back disappearing? They must have - because the BB is not active. No-one is there but alejandio - bless him. My point is not sour grapes (though I have no doubt it has seemed that way at times - and things do get heated sometimes when arguing things - even on the internet) that you have won this war and control the board - my point is you have killed the board, all on your own. And might hurt the game if you cause people to leave. And there is no doubt that PvP activity can, and has, caused people to leave. Calling it mental distress is a little strong - could even be victim blaming again!! Or you could call it disincentivising the need to keep playing, when there are lots of other options out there. Again - HCS can look at new player retention, and analyse accounts that fall inactive and see if any in game events seem tied to people walking away. Objective data is key. They have it, we do not.
The attitude that you can then set informal rules of behaviour on the board and punish those who infringe on these rules as you see fit is a sign of your total control. You can deny it - feel free. Denial will not bring people back to the BB. Denial also does not stop me from asking if the BB is dead - what are you doing in game? Are you doing gold hits and not even getting posted? So you are getting to hit for free? IF that were so then the BB then is not properly functioning as it was once advertised to function - as a punishment on those who hit you. I cannot know if that is happening, unless you admit it is, and no-one has been willing to go there on the PvP side. HCS may be able to analyse the data and see how many unbountied gold hits are happening in game. IF there are a lot - the BB needs to be revamped. If not and pvP players are doing other things as PvP is no longer interesting to them due to lack of opportunities - then PvP is moribund and on its way out and we should hold a nice wake .
We are in Hoof's hands. Discussions are being had. we don't even know what is technically possible. I am happy to leave it to him. we have all got our stories of disappointment from changes made by HCS. Many to PvP. Lets hope the next one is not another repeat of that. Given this ongoing discussion there are bound to be disappointed people somewhere - and that is the thing HCS and their bean counters have to make a risk assessment on. Good luck to them.
Thank you again for your considered reply Luis.
P.S. The graphics in thread are very amusing - I had a chortle! thanks for that!
Edited by Belaric, 12 April 2014 - 00:58.
Good-bye and hello, as always.
Veteran
Posted 12 April 2014 - 01:11
Even though this has probably been de-railed, and it's hard to pick out the good posts vs the flaming posts (which I agree usually happens with every discussion versus groups within this game).
However, Belaric, I don't necessarily agree about the bounty board. I don't think most of the suggestions would help make the bounty board a more active place, rather than not having enough bounty hunters. Activity on the board would mean more bounties, which would mean more opportunity for players to test the waters.
The first point - the victim setting the punishment. I can see this, but as with in the past, I don't think this necessarily worked out too well. I believe the amount of gold/fsp necessary to set the limits of what you would need to take 3-5 levels would outweigh the cost that would be required. You could not make this too cheap, as everyone would obviously want to take the maximum amount of levels - as was shown in the past when a player could pick between 10 and 100 stam bounties.
Which leads into the 2nd point - bounty hunting should have a risk involved with it - no matter what. There is a risk vs reward in all aspects of the game, and the risk should not be removed from the bounty board. To put it in a few words, bounty hunting is still Player vs Player, so as with PVP, there should always be a risk involved. Since players do not lose XP while losing to players on the bounty board, then they should still be able to be bountied. There are, and will continue to be some victims on those who bounty hunt, it should be expected to happen sometime. Most of the time, the bounty board is a self-policing part of the game, where those who bounty the bounty hunter for 10-stam clears, should receive 100 stams next time they're on the board. By removing the time limit of the bounty expiration, then you remove the main reason a few players have been complaining about being bountied for 10-stam clears (because it was too close to the bounty expiring). Also, there should never be the ability in the game to 100-stam a player without any repercussions - whether you're the "face of justice" that bounty hunters are or you are the most hated player in the game. I hate pulling RL examples into posts, but bounty hunters in real life take risks whenever they take a bounty. They can be hurt by the other person and still be arrested by the law for not following the law. I just don't agree with taking any risk out of a portion of the game, especially the bounty board. Quite frankly, I'd think that the suggestions may actually kill PVP in general as it's usually risk vs reward when it comes to PVP.
With being able to bounty the bounty hunters still in my mind, I don't see the advantages of guildmates clearing guildmates. I think this could even hurt the game by bringing out a lot of unnecessary drama in guilds - ie when a guildmate starts 100 stamming another guildmate, many people will complain and many guilds may fragment.
Finally, I like the idea of creating the new top rated. I see a lot of ways that they can be manipulated, but just like every leader board/reward, it can be done anyway.
Overall, I think the bounty board works pretty well as it does now. Even though plenty of players don't think it provides enough punishment, PVP players lose minimum 2x the amount of XP they can take from one player per hit. Another possible suggestion is the lower the amount of XP by .5 (maximum of 5% for 100 stam hit and .5% for 10-stam). This would increase the penalty for bountying hits to a minimum of 4x what a player can lose for a 100 stam. Increasing the PVP activity within the game would lead to more players put on the bounty board. Increasing theft rates of gold would be a great place to start.
Increasing PVP would lead to an increased use of the bounty board. The increased use of the bounty board would allow more players to take bounties, which will give more opportunity for new players to try bounty hunting. While this doesn't give players a way to really "learn" about PVP, but just like any other aspect of the game, people should take the time to learn the basics - whether it's an in-game tutorial with NPC type characters to test the skills of players in a PVP type setting without any repercussions
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for reading.
Posted 12 April 2014 - 01:53
i stopped posting due to my input being called "assumptions". when the reason for this thread is based on assumptions...... my " assumptions" are based on my years of experience in this game and knowledge of the LVL'rs and pvp"rs ..... but thats fine.... u tried your best to debunk any constructive input or ideas.... team work was great. thanks for trolling.... should try and be a little more flexible and work with others input.... things would have been more positive.... but no.... i feel its your way or the highway........ thats the impression u have given me reading along with others input to your opinionated ideas.
Posted 12 April 2014 - 01:55
OP, the problem is in a pvp game you need the ability to hit back as many times as needed to achieve a desired result. If this isn't a pvp game, then you have a valid claim. If this is a pvp game then you don't. It's clear the Cows have stated this is a pvp game. If you remove the ability to bounty the bounty hunter, you remove the ability to hit back. This is a pvp game just like it is a leveling game and a titan hunting game and many other 'games.' If I don't personally like an aspect of the game, I move on. Please move on.
Edited by Stoneman, 12 April 2014 - 01:59.
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
