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Stat Changing Skill Levels in Super Pots Are Harmful


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Poll: Super Pots (75 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think Super pots are too powerful?

  1. Yes (44 votes [58.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 58.67%

  2. No (31 votes [41.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 41.33%

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#1 sweetlou

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 17:54

Let me first define what a Super pot is: Composing, Ladder and Global pots. I've purposely ignored donation pots because they are used by HCS to earn revenue. I'm against the huge increase in stat changing skills for Super pots. I am not alone. After witnessing repeated threads where players' concerns about the subject are being censored/deleted as off-topic I wanted a thread to DISCUSS the effect these pots have on the game so they can be heard ON-TOPIC. Players leave the game when they are silenced. I'd like HCS to have a dialogue with players, the way they used to, about these pots with the respect customers deserve.

 

These pots have detrimentally over powered all major game aspects; PvE, PvP and GvG. They have greatly diminished equipment's value. Leveling can now be achieved without changing gear for roughly 1000 levels and still 1 hit. Any previous thought of planning to level is now totally unnecessary. In GvG and PvP combat it is impossible to compete against a Super potted player without being super potted yourself. The use of these pots has become mandatory to be competitive. These pots are divisive between players who have them and those that don't. It's relegated the game to potion access, attainment and management.

 

The fact that everyone might be able to attain any of these Super pots is misleading and impractical. Composing is expensive and time consuming hence only a low number of players have access to the best pots. It's allowed some players too strong an advantage. The Ladder Super pot requires 70 tokens to buy, that's 14 cycles of Ladder winning. Ironically to win Ladders oftentimes players need to use the long duration Super Ladder pot in order to win. Lastly, Global event pots are the easiest to collect compared to other Super pots. Managing these pots has become easier with stacked pots however it limits competitive play by how many pots they have and can attain.

 

Not all skills included in these pots are detrimental. I haven't heard a single complaint about Doubler, Conserve, Lightfoot, Anti-d, and so on being too powerful. It's the high level stat changing skills that have been increased to levels exceeding 600+ that have simply become obscene. The increase is devastating compared to the standard 175 skill level players have access to. Why were these pot levels made so high?

 

While I respect the difficulty required to earn Composed and Ladder pots, the high level stat changing skills need to be toned down considerably to more reasonable levels. The skill levels are simply too high. Other non stat changing skills could be increased to compensate for this change. Standard 175 skills against Super pots simply have no chance in GvG and PvP and leveling in PvE is increasingly far too easy. The skill levels are out of control!


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#2 Egami

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 18:02

Thank you so much Lou for creating this thread. As you mentioned, a lot of posts have gotten deleted because of people talking off-topic about the issue. 

 

I know several players have mentioned their concern, so I think creating this post was a great idea. 

 

Kudos! 

 

That said, I'll try to come back later to explain my actual opinion.



#3 Kbyte

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 18:06

What I'm gonna write here is not going to solve this problem but could at least attenuate the discrepancy of standard castable buffs against strong pots on player with hundread of levels of difference.

 

as mentioned before players 1k level lower super potted could easiy beat the target even with castable buffs 175.

 

I would suggest to increase the max level of SOME castable buffs [the pvp ones] till level 225 to reduce that discrepancy a little.

 

This way composing would still be what it is, still considering the efford it is to level up on it and still not letting castable buffs so weak on pvp [as it is nowaday when fighting against sb super potted].


Edited by Kbyte, 08 June 2016 - 18:09.


#4 sweetlou

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 19:20

I would suggest to increase the max level of SOME castable buffs [the pvp ones] till level 225 to reduce that discrepancy a little.

 

This way composing would still be what it is, still considering the efford it is to level up on it and still not letting castable buffs so weak on pvp [as it is nowaday when fighting against sb super potted].

This is a pretty good idea to offset the issue. One thing it does that might be considered is that it allows players to use skill points which are of little value atm because players already have so many skills useful to them maxed out with many extra points and nowhere they want to put them.


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#5 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 19:45

I voted yes, the uber pots are obscenely overpowered.

 

However this horse has been beaten to death, several times over, this thread will do nothing.


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#6 Pythia

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 20:20

You will never convince PvP/GvG  players to give up use of those potions and they have have no adverse effect of the leveler.

 

I don't want them changed for that reason.

 

Really people, get yourself sorted and make up your mind instead of asking the admin to do it for you.

 

Either stop using them in the PvP aspects of the game or not.

 

Talk about whining, crying.

 

You put me to shame in that category, and you ripped me good over it.

 

Take responsibility for your own actions and move on.

 

Leave me to mine and in peace. You say I can't have it made to easy, you know.

 

Neither can you then.



#7 Pardoux

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 20:55

You will never convince PvP/GvG  players to give up use of those potions and they have have no adverse effect of the leveler.

 

I don't want them changed for that reason.

 

Really people, get yourself sorted and make up your mind instead of asking the admin to do it for you.

 

Either stop using them in the PvP aspects of the game or not.

 

Talk about whining, crying.

 

You put me to shame in that category, and you ripped me good over it.

 

Take responsibility for your own actions and move on.

 

Leave me to mine and in peace. You say I can't have it made to easy, you know.

 

Neither can you then.

 

I love how, repeatedly, you say "leave them alone", but by your own admission, you have no experience of using the highest level potions and thus no idea of how over-powered they really are.

 

All that said, I agree with Doomie - the horse has long since bolted and been turned into dog-food now, I very much doubt anything will change.


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

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#8 Pythia

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 21:11

If the horse is long gone, do you think they can stop with the necromancer tactics to raise one from the dead?

 

You're right,  I use those potions mostly for hunts and other events, but still, if they work the way they were set up to work. *shrugs*

 

I put in time and stam to get them.. That is my option, and I don't ask anyone to change things  up to make it easier for me.  I quit that after being ripped for wanting an aspect of the game a little quicker.

 

I don't ask for anything anymore, I rarely even post on here because it's mostly unhappy people wanting to go back in time when that's not really going to happen..

 

Harping is a good descriptive word.  It won't change composing though and if it does, I'll probably relocate to the other game.

 

I still think if they have a problem with those potions they should police each other. I have a feeling the bounty board might be busier if they did. 

 

A good strong beat down to keep the wayward ones inline. 

 

Time to move on from here, it will some time before I feel strongly enough about sometime to comment again. 


Edited by Pythia, 08 June 2016 - 21:21.


#9 EpicPiety

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 21:24

I love how, repeatedly, you say "leave them alone", but by your own admission, you have no experience of using the highest level potions and thus no idea of how over-powered they really are.

 

All that said, I agree with Doomie - the horse has long since bolted and been turned into dog-food now, I very much doubt anything will change.

Not worth it man. I would know. Should just drop it lol.



#10 Josh1404

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 21:35

I voted no I shall say this firstly but this issue for me is difficult to gauge.

 

I feel though like these different categories of "super pots" need to be viewed differently though.

 

I returned to play the game some months ago after a long time out. I left as composing was being first introduced. When I came back the very first thing in conversations about the game I was told was to immediately look at leveling my composing. I didn't understand why this was so important and why it was necessary to be competitive in any way. I was taken back by the strength and more importantly availability of these potions. Such huge differences to stats and can be composed by many players now. These potions with any real solid setup are difficult to match even if the level difference is significant.

 

Composing is readily available to almost all players by one means or another whether you buy from guild members or use traveling composers. There is an abundance of these potions in the game and so are the biggest problem when thinking of the issue of overpowered potions. Though I do agree that these potions have done the game much more harm than good I feel at this stage when there is already an abundance of these potions and many players at the latter stages of leveling their composing it is far too late to make major changes. It would be a massive slap in the face to those that leveled their composing to make those exact potions. They invested a great deal of time, gold and effort to get the frags required to do so. To make wholesale changes and completely change the levels of the potions that can be composed will likely get more people complaining than the idea being welcomed. This is not a biased point of view I just want to say as I am level 19 composing. Very far away from being able to compose these potions. Not about me trying to preserve any ability I have to make these OP potions just trying to be fair to everyone in my approach to the issue.

 

Global potions are less abundant and serve as rewards for contribution in the global events, I don't feel it is a good idea to in any way "water down" these rewards. Because they serve as the initiative behind a player pledging more kills to the total in order to get those potions. I feel like weakening them will only decrease participation in these events. Much less desirable potions just equates to much less desire to want to participate. I don't think we want this to happen. I know the events seem to be occurring at a much more regular rate than perhaps before, making the potions less of a rare occurrence but I still feel like anything that will decrease the community participation in these events is a bad move. Though I do agree these potions are very powerful and unless matched by equal potion strength are essentially a win button for all that choose to use them.

 

Crystal chest ladder potions are new to me as well and I have to say I like them. The only worthwhile use of PvP tokens in my opinion and at 70 tokens to invent just 1 chest unlike the composing potions they have to be earned. As the original poster said that is 14 resets placing first place in all. That takes some effort even if your using composing potions to do so as the reset is random and the composing potions do not last forever. You need to be both active and still have some basic knowledge of setup at least. Though I will admit it would be made much easier with composing potions. These potions in the chests are powerful but not as powerful as the other chests mentioned though much longer in duration. Difficult to compare their harm overall to the other chests but I feel like because these chests have to be earned and are bound to the player that invents them they are only available through effort and thus they are a worthwhile reward. Unless you wish to invest your time into winning 14 ladder resets you cannot have these potions benefits and so these potions are much less common and available to much fewer people

 

Also these are as I said in my opinion the only worthwhile use of tokens and I know many agree with this thought. It comes down to the same thinking as with the global potions, it is a reward and removing or "watering down" these rewards makes them less desirable and makes people less inclined to get them. Removing reasons to earn tokens only removes desire to participate. This will only serve to decrease the ever dwindling activity in the ladder. A situation none of us want.

 

Only throwing my two cents in here. Just stating my opinion.

 

I have no solutions to offer nor any real feedback on what can be done as a compromise even. Just throwing it out there in the hope a stray bovine may think to read it. Either way I think it's far too late to do anything about it now and I fully expect as many will for this thread to be locked and the stated opinions on these subjects to be shunned.

 

Probably more the fool me for writing this out but meh...

 

Have a good night / day / evening / morning everyone. :D

 

Go on then Egami. Beat this for a wall of text. You can't waffle on as well as me and you know it. :P


Edited by Josh1404, 08 June 2016 - 21:42.


#11 bloody18

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 21:41

I  think HCS should simply add a "BARE-KNUCKLE" ladder .. ( no-buffs)

 

When playing the arena buffs are not factored in ..

 

SO like arena ..

 

Have a 2nd ladder which  uses NO BUFFS or uses only castable buffs which we all have access to ( buff market etc)   .. it will level the playin field for the most part ..

But some players are always gonna have better gear or a bigger brain =)

 

This wont take away from the current ladder system  ...... it will just add another playable aspect to the game. ( ps im pretty sure this has been suggested before ..)

 

 



#12 yotwehc

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 22:49

My 2 cents as well. On my deleveling campaigns, I have seen first hand, where folks 1,000's of levels below me with level 175 to 192 buffs destroy me and my over powered pots. How can this be? Probably cuz I'm a noob but definitely not invulnerable as some seem to claim. I actually have high respect for those that can punch through despite the over poweredness. Kudos to them. I guess people want challenging. But not too challenging. :/

#13 kitobas

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 10:17

You will never convince PvP/GvG  players to give up use of those potions and they have have no adverse effect of the leveler.

 

I don't want them changed for that reason.

 

Really people, get yourself sorted and make up your mind instead of asking the admin to do it for you.

 

Either stop using them in the PvP aspects of the game or not.

 

Talk about whining, crying.

 

You put me to shame in that category, and you ripped me good over it.

 

Take responsibility for your own actions and move on.

 

Leave me to mine and in peace. You say I can't have it made to easy, you know.

 

Neither can you then.

No flame baiting please.


Edited by BigGrim, 09 June 2016 - 11:18.
No flame baiting please.


#14 kitobas

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 11:03

thank you very much luisspamer for creating this forum topic

 

I agreeing with you on composing potions and ladder potions they too powerful and negative for pvp and gvg but for global potions I thinking is ok because we getting global potions 1 time every month

only global potion I would agreeing with you is too powerful and negative for pvp and gvg is dark curse 375 (is dark curse 432 after using distil 150 is removing 86% of target defense) and because we getting 10 potions calling ruby dark sun stash II with this crazy high skill

 

The fact that everyone might be able to attain any of these Super pots is misleading and impractical.

I agreeing, I explaining long in my last 2 postings that got removing why it not truth that everyone having access to composing

if players not having player in guild who composer then they needing buying from traveling composers and if you hcs looking at prices from traveling composers they very expensive

I giving example:

keen edge traveling composers selling for 2-3 fsps (400k - 600k gold) for 30 minutes

keen edge buff only costing 5k - 10k gold from buff market for more than 120 minutes

 

keen edge buff is many times cheaper and having longer duration and you can getting instant

you can buying keen edge buff 100 times from buff market and it will having same price as buying 1 time from traveling composer, that not normal

 

anyone who thinking that buff level 175 against crazy high composing level 350+ is fair must be very stupid, sorry for saying this but that truth, it simple maths, if you not knowing 350 is higher than 175 then you having serious problems

hcs making composing choice but in pvp you are forcing using composing or epic potions against crazy high composer


Edited by kitobas, 09 June 2016 - 11:06.


#15 BigGrim

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 11:21

Again, we're happy with the Potions that are available. Everyone DOES have access to them.

 

Everyone can partake in the Ladder.

 

Everyone can partake in Global Events.

 

Everyone can level up composing. 

 

~ Grim



#16 Kedyn

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 15:01

Again, we're happy with the Potions that are available. Everyone DOES have access to them.

 

Everyone can partake in the Ladder.

 

Everyone can partake in Global Events.

 

Everyone can level up composing. 

 

~ Grim

 

The major gripe I have about the potions is that it really doesn't make the game more challenging unless you partake in Active PVP (both players being buffed) or in Active GVG (both players online and buffed). Otherwise, it just turns this game into a more mindless hitting 1 2 3 4 or just auto-refresh on the attack player screen (for GVG/Bounty Hunting/PVP). 

 

I understand the game evolves, and with that evolution came the need for players to see bigger numbers with their sets (Coord Attack/Def, Smashing Hammer, etc.). However, in terms of monsters, that hasn't changed much. As Lou mentioned, most hunting can be done 100% if you have high level composing skills. Even at my level of 45, I haven't had issues 1-hitting while also having enough Armor and Defense to purely survive 2-hitting+ in a long time. I think there has been maybe 2-3 levels that I can remember that may have been 2-hit. However, had I had level 60 composed potions, I probably wouldn't even check monster stats anymore. 



#17 Egami

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 18:25

Go on then Egami. Beat this for a wall of text. You can't waffle on as well as me and you know it. :P

I had already decided to like the post a few paragraphs before the end. Really well thought out and well spoken.

 

Then I read that and looked for the "super like" button, lmao.

 

Oddly enough, my plan isn't to text wall this one... but hey, we'll see on Sunday ,oP



#18 sweetlou

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 22:15

Again, we're happy with the Potions that are available. Everyone DOES have access to them.

 

Everyone can partake in the Ladder.

 

Everyone can partake in Global Events.

 

Everyone can level up composing. 

 

~ Grim

You make it sound easy to obtain these pots, with the limited global pot exception. You never want to address the disparity between the standard 175 buffing max level and the 625+ level that can be achieved in these Super pots. The levels are obscene and have broken the game.


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#19 EpicPiety

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 22:45

You make it sound easy to obtain these pots, with the limited global pot exception. You never want to address the disparity between the standard 175 buffing max level and the 625+ level that can be achieved in these Super pots. The levels are obscene and have broken the game.

He already stated he's happy with the current state...broken or not they are happy lol. Explains a lot about the current state of the game. To his their own tho.


Edited by EpicPiety, 09 June 2016 - 22:45.


#20 sweetlou

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 02:26

You make it sound easy to obtain these pots, with the limited global pot exception. You never want to address the disparity between the standard 175 buffing max level and the 625+ level that can be achieved in these Super pots. The levels are obscene and have broken the game.

Can you justify how GvGs are suppose to be defended against Super pots? Super pots vs. 175 casted skills seem disproportional. How does that work? Btw, will Hoof ever appear to weigh in on forum topics any more?


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