58 replies to this topic

[Anialator]

The recent loss of the game Solarfleet leaves me worried as to the long term survival of our game, especially when it appears we would not be given the source code to continue should it fail here. It is worrying enough that Legacy was relegated to "Other" despite our still reasonable playerbase compared to games with their own forums which, if I understood the page correctly, seem to average only 3 players online.

 

We were told joining HCS would boost our player base, if anything it seems the intention was to get our players to join games already a part of HCS. We are in a situation where there is only one person who may create content for the game, who has responsibilities elsewhere. Additional coders, and there are people on Legacy who would happily create this content, could not only prevent the end of this game, but even give it new life to grow once more.

 

I guess i'm just looking for confirmation that the years that the active players (quick average from online now gives about 5 years though many are at 8 now) won't be lost. Can we get feedback on this?

[HappyDays]

For the future of the game, it would be of benefit to the absolute basic survival of the game if hcs allowed fans to code for the game and keep it alive. I don't think legacy wants to turn into some of the games hcs have shuttered off . It could be of worth to legacy to get an independent site again outside of hcs and not be walled into here and take its chances. Would hcs be open to a sale if the players of Legacy could fund raise enough to get it out. Also anialator probably has a valid point, the populations on your games were not something legacy could benefit from.

[Matty]

I too am worried about the future of this game. When it was purchased, it felt as though new life was to be breathed into the game, however, all we were able to accomplish was 2 new weapons, 2 new misc items, and a lot of promises. Heck I even wanted to see other HCS Staff members playing Legacy, but they did the same thing that all new players do; log in, play for 5 minutes and log off.

 

I've been playing Legacy for about 7 years in total, and its a game that has a very strong, close knit community, and to know that something I've invested so much time into will go for naught really hurts me. I don't blame Zorg, I don't blame HCS, but I do think that the purchase was a mistake. You guys wanted Zorg, and Legacy came as a package deal. Zorg is a terrific worker, but ultimately he is paid by you guys to do other things, leaving Legacy, what is currently close to your most popular game, to the dust. It is unfair to us as players to be treated in this way.

An official response from somebody would be greatly appreciated, as I myself have felt in the dark about all of this.

 

Thank you,

 

EDIT: Also, I would be more than willing to contribute to a purchase of Legacy if it was ever thought of. We have many capable people who can code and design new things.

 

Matty

Edited by Matty, 07 September 2014 - 20:08.

[centurion]

I know the answer to this post from HCS will probably be that the legacy is and will be supported.   I've lived through the death of Sigmastorm 2 and saw what is happening to gothador and still born solarfleet.     i do understand HCS is a business, and need to have revenue and income to stay in business.

 

 

Main issue though is not just support, rather better gaming experience.  The latest updates which were improperly done without lot of testing,  has done more to damage the long term viability of the game than if it wasn't done.   (strictly my opinion though)       I would really wish, the game could become somewhat opensourced. (any new code could be owned by hcs  if licensing is strict))  any new features could be tested on dev before release, like it was supposedly done.     haphazard update should be thing of the past.     overall,  legacy is dying a slow death in its current guise.   not sure bandaid fixes will do much.   I do hope that Hoof and the management can make a firm decision that is transparent to the royal playerbase, that makes sense to everyone involved.

[Noodle]

The recent loss of the game Solarfleet leaves me worried as to the long term survival of our game, especially when it appears we would not be given the source code to continue should it fail here. It is worrying enough that Legacy was relegated to "Other" despite our still reasonable playerbase compared to games with their own forums which, if I understood the page correctly, seem to average only 3 players online.

 

We were told joining HCS would boost our player base, if anything it seems the intention was to get our players to join games already a part of HCS. We are in a situation where there is only one person who may create content for the game, who has responsibilities elsewhere. Additional coders, and there are people on Legacy who would happily create this content, could not only prevent the end of this game, but even give it new life to grow once more.

 

I guess i'm just looking for confirmation that the years that the active players (quick average from online now gives about 5 years though many are at 8 now) won't be lost. Can we get feedback on this?

 

 

I too am worried about the future of this game. When it was purchased, it felt as though new life was to be breathed into the game, however, all we were able to accomplish was 2 new weapons, 2 new misc items, and a lot of promises. Heck I even wanted to see other HCS Staff members playing Legacy, but they did the same thing that all new players do; log in, play for 5 minutes and log off.

 

I've been playing Legacy for about 7 years in total, and its a game that has a very strong, close knit community, and to know that something I've invested so much time into will go for naught really hurts me. I don't blame Zorg, I don't blame HCS, but I do think that the purchase was a mistake. You guys wanted Zorg, and Legacy came as a package deal. Zorg is a terrific worker, but ultimately he is paid by you guys to do other things, leaving Legacy, what is currently close to your most popular game, to the dust. It is unfair to us as players to be treated in this way.

An official response from somebody would be greatly appreciated, as I myself have felt in the dark about all of this.

 

Thank you,

 

EDIT: Also, I would be more than willing to contribute to a purchase of Legacy if it was ever thought of. We have many capable people who can code and design new things.

 

Matty

 

Can't put it any better than the above posts.

 

Awaiting an HCS statement,

 

Noodle

[Nastasha]

I have grown a fondness towards Legacy over the last 6.5 months, and nearly the whole time I have also had these questions on my mind as well. I see the passion, love, drive, and talent within our player-base. It is clear to me that HCS juggling so many balls ends up with important things left on the floor. In years of searching I have never found a game that suits my needs and desires as much as Legacy does, and were it to fall completely to the way-side it would be sad.

 

Let's face the music, either HCS needs to step it up in a big way (go ahead, steal our ideas!), or players from within your own game may move on to other games outside your portfolio. Worse even your own players may end up becoming your biggest competitors as they venture out and use their talent to their full potential and create their own game(s).

 

Don't give up on us! The ball is in your court!

[Aaron]

First, HappyDays' idea about a buyout. It happened recently with the roliana community - it's not unheard of. I see it as a viable option at this point due to he following I see as sabotage to the game, already done by HCS. Sabotage in the sense that these would be seen as harmful to business on other games.

 

 

Little things like changing "turns" into "energy" because it's common in other games. The entire selling point of legacy was that it was unique - so a move to make it more generic is detracting from that point.

 

On top of that, the "free" offers. I don't want. I don't care. It takes you out of the game so you either have to re-enter through a few clicks, or use the back button. Clunky and inconvenient.

The majority of players feel the same But there's no option to disable. It's an extra annoyance on a regular basis. Players often talk on sidechat about ways to disable it's appearance with the browser and simple scripts. It'd be simple to have a checkbox in options to turn it off. All it'd need do is set the "new offers" check to always no.

The lack of said checkbox means unnecessary player frustration.

 

Then there's the lack of proper testing/balancing on recent updates.

There are multiple people who with basic math have already proven that certain item/crystal combinations have no reasonable counter except to use one of these setups yourself, extremely restrictive.

 eg: a single full acc crystal rift gun directly equals full dodge crystal totals on armour and both miscs (titan/dual infernos). And that's just one....

 

To top it all off, the move to "other" forums here. Yes there's an ingame forum, but without a subforum in the main site the game is already relegated as not as important as the others for someone glancing through. It makes the chances of getting new players through the site itself lower.

 

And neither does going well past deadlines on promised content without notice until well past it. It's just more reassurances that the community already expects to be lies due to a VERY long history of them turning out to be.

 

 

so in summary: lack of sufficient testing/math for balance purposes, more generic, extra player inconvenience, seen as lesser game from external viewpoint, update schedule not held to.

 

 

These moves would all be seen as damaging to player loyalty in any other game. So I ask, why were these moves made?

 

I'll forgive on the balance one as at least it added content, skip that even, but the rest - by what logic? I do not understand any possible benefit to any of those moves.

 

 

I need an assurance. I really do. As do others.

My only note is not to shoot the messenger. These are genuine concerns others are too fearful to voice their opinion of, which is yet another problem in itself.

[Anialator]

I too would be willing to pay in part for independent development of this game, my funds are somewhat limited as I am going to university this month, but I would be willing to chip in up to 50 pounds myself if everyone else would. Individually it's not much but being one of HCS most active games it could be possible to raise the funds required for a legitimate offer.

On the other hand that activity would be a reason you wouldn't wish to sell, when you employed Zorg you got access to a gold mine with Legacy. Your flagship product Eldevin may make a large profit when it goes to Steam, but it comes with the huge risk of the money and time you have spent producing it. Legacy is not graphically intensive and profits can be made from relatively small amounts of investment. (Heck I expect Steven would be willing to single handedly provide all the graphics required) We need a reason to start purchasing platinum again, something that assures us of Legacy's longevity.

Edit: Also as to what Aaron says,

These are genuine concerns others are too fearful to voice their opinion of, which is yet another problem in itself.

I saw this first hand with the creation of this thread, I discussed the contents of the original post with a few others prior to posting and they said it was very likely my thread would be deleted. That any player should feel that level of mistrust is most worrying.

Edited by Anialator, 08 September 2014 - 12:17.

[Evisonny]

Taking a look at HCS's userbase and the amount of players on each game.. Legacy should be a big concern to them. We still have quite an active userbase and plenty of older players still willing to invest into the game for new content. The fact that a community is willing to take the game into their own hands and attempt to develop and run the community themselves should show that we should not be tossed into the back like some abomination. Yes, we aren't graphically advanced. But take a look at Fallen Sword. It can be HCS's most successful game and has the graphics of any other mid 2000's browser game. We could easily still be an active and developing community, all it takes is the ability given to us. To allow us to openly suggest, draft, test, and release features.

[Majoras]

I give my support to every point made in this forum so far. I've along with many other players have invested both money and time into this game. Legacy was doing fine without HCS and IMHO I would've rather not have joined HCS altogether. Our community didn't grow like expected , maybe we gained a couple players but to have our game at risk of deletion is something that Legacy as a whole shouldn't even have to think about . We all appreciate Zorgs work and effort into the game and I understand that he does work for HCS now but to have a game that came in from the outside doing perfectly fine and now faces a potential threat of deletion is unreasonable . Our player base is one of the larger of all the HCS games and our voices should and need to be heard by the entire HC community . As it comes too I would be willing to help buyout the game again as long as everyone is willing as well . Our effort needs to be heard, and if you plan on deleting the game anyways why not make a couple bucks in the process and give it to the players of the game and let us do our thing .

Also as mentioned before even looking past the unupdated things that we were all looking forward we still love the game. Updates would be a cherry on top if we would be able to take the game back to our own community.

Thanks,
Bboysilent

[KoKo]

I agree with everything stated above. I have been playing this game on and off since the first version Zorg created back when I was in middle/elementary school and I wish to continue to play it for a good many years to come.

 

I sadly do not believe this game will last to much longer the way things are headed, and currently I don't  think HCS is doing the game any justice.

 

We still have a good amount of players who purchase plat, and that money goes into HCS, so i do not understand how we are seemingly cast aside?

 

Also, I see no harm in allowing players to begin to implement additions to the game, with supervision from HCS/Zorg and having them well tested before being released (Which is why we have DEV Server in the first place) as you as a company are basically getting countless hours of work done for you for free. We have Steven (mentioned above) who already does 99% of the graphics work I'm sure, and many that are worthy coders that could manage the work themselves.

 

If this is not a viable option, I would be willing to front some money with my fellow Legacy members and buy out the game.

 

This game has held a place in my heart for many years, and I would never forgive anyone for its destruction.

 

-Koko

Edited by KoKo, 08 September 2014 - 17:33.

[Ayo]

Legacy Deleted?!?

Been playing for 8 years, i grew up with Legacy, its more than just a game, its a part of my, and many others life. that being said....

 

Duno if wanted to see game owned by community, that might create chaos. I dont think Zorg would ever give up on Legacy, i just guess he does what he is told. But HCS should realize that with Legacy you could make the most buck, if you invest your time and money in it, but all this has been said many times before, and HCS staff have seen our concerns and what we think of our game....

i guess you guys dont have no faith in Legacy

 

Ayo.

[Steven]

I too agree. I have spent years playing this game back when Zorg was enthusiastic about it, we was close to 10,000 active players... 10,000! This shows the true talent of his work when he does get his head down. But as of the last few years, this game has crawled into a pit, lack of updates and stalemate mean players have had nothing to do and just vanished of the map.

 

HCS put together a roadmap back in March... To be completed by the end of April, It is now almost mid September and it is still yet to be completed. When we can't even complete minor roadmap updates it doesn't give anyone much hope hence this thread being created.

 

The best thing is, HCS do not even begin to realise what sort of gold mine Legacy could be for them. The Plat market has soooo much potential to add all sorts of boosts and changes and create a real subscription type package and yet they don't? I simply don't understand the man behind the whole business.

 

As for selling, we have coders, ideas coming out of our arses and artists. I would value Legacy at around £40-50,000, the thing is this is Zorgs baby. He spent countless amount of hours and years on this and I would hate for anyone to take it away from him. If it was for the best of this game though, they should sell. With a few updates and tweeks that money could be made back so easily, and HCS don't even see it. I hope HCS reply to this too.

[ItsMe]

As a long term member in Legacy game, I'd say this game has a lot to offer.

It's a mistake that HCS doesn't take this opportunity and help the game grow, if it does, it will only benefit from it.

 

Even if HCS doesn't want to continue and develop the game, it can create an open-mod scripting for users to commit and for admins to confirm, We have talented players, artists, developers, that want to invest time and effort to reforge the game and help it grow.

Many ideas were shut down and many ideas will because Zorg can't make it on his own (As talented developer as he can be).

[Macey]

I don't know if I have much more to add than what has already been mentioned. I just wish to post and show my support. Legacy was and is still a great game, I have always and will always believe in it until the day it goes offline. Whatever the outcome of the game, we've had a good run

[MVP]

 

I don't know if I have much more to add than what has already been mentioned. I just wish to post and show my support. 

 

 

As a longtime player of LEGACY, now on my 2nd MVP account, I have deep concerns as the rest of our community over the future of our beloved game. There were a few things in my life going on that caused me to come to this game. I had no intention of staying and god damn, the community and talent LEGACY has, has kept me coming back for a solid 8 years. Over this time all of the LEGACY community, not just me, has watched the downfall due to HCS not handling it how they should. HCS ruined legacy. I have been able to believe this will be in my life for many years still to come. That can only happen one way though. It needs to be taken out of the hands of HCS and to the community it rightfully should belong to. We pay for plat just to watch it continually be pushed further and further back. Almost every post here I'm sure I agree with if not all. Please, do the right thing and allow us to take control and give the game back the life is truly deserves. WE THE PEOPLE, will have no problem starting something up like a kickstarter or whatever page to bring legacy back home to it's community.

 

#WETHEPEOPLE

Edited by MVP, 08 September 2014 - 22:31.

[TGame]

Like many players have already stated, we're worried about the future of our game. You can call it Zorg's game, but honestly it takes 2 to have a relationship... Zorg and his community he's brought together. And just like he has put countless hours into the game, so have we. Had we all bailed long ago, I'm sure Zorg woulda scrapped the project. Now we have people playing for almost a decade now. Our concern isn't so much that HCS will delete us, it's more that they won't update us.

It's pretty evident that HCS has us on the back burner. We'd appreciate more attention and dedication... especially since things like graphics are already in the hands of the players. It seems silly to have to make a thread begging for updates when players can spend cash on the game.

I know I'm not alone when I say that this game has inspired me. It's fueled my ambition to learn how to code and do the things Zorg does. This will sounds plenty corny but true. This game may have been a part of HCS for a few years, but the memories will last a lifetime. If it's possible, I'm sure us players would buy this game and keep it running, even if it meant some day reaching that point to where even we no longer update it.

[Macey]

I know I'm not alone when I say that this game has inspired me. It's fueled my ambition to learn how to code and do the things Zorg does. This will sounds plenty corny but true. This game may have been a part of HCS for a few years, but the memories will last a lifetime. If it's possible, I'm sure us players would buy this game and keep it running, even if it meant some day reaching that point to where even we no longer update it.

 

Exactly my feelings. I actually was asked in the interview to my job why I got into programming/coding. I mentioned that I had played a small online text based game and wanted to make one of my own and things took off. It's kinda shaped my career. Now I'm a full time "Software Engineer Developer"

 

#WETHEPEOPLE

Edited by Macey, 08 September 2014 - 21:51.

[rollin340]

As you can tell from all of the above Posts, Legacy has a very strong and dedicated community.

 

We have players who help out with this game.

From modding the Forums, to creating new designs and Items, to making some user-end scripts, and some guys who are full-time Staff; those guys do administrative duties and don't even get paid to do so!

 

It hurts us to see this game lag behind the other games HCS develops.

We care. We really do.

 

 

Also, here are some stats directly from your website's counters.

It's about the average amount of active players.

 

Fallen Sword 300 - 600

Legacy 70 - 110

Eldevin 50 - 100

Gothador 1 - 24

Sigmastorm 0 - 8

 

Legacy is technically the second most active game you have.

Yet we don't have our own Forums?

 

Sigmastorm and Gothador, put together in their prime, doesn't even reach Legacy's lowest count.

And if you have read through all of the Posts, we once hovered around the 5-digit player-base.

 

The game can get players.

It just needs the attention it deserves.

 

 

From a business standpoint, wouldn't Legacy be an excellent spot to invest in?

I mean, the players are there, ready and willing to help.

 

Heck, they already are helping.

Now we just want to know, will you save this game or will you let it wither away.

 

I'd prefer for Zorg to always stay with Legacy.

But if that results in the games death, I'd rather have them part.

 

 

So please HCS, update us on where this game stands in your grand scheme.

[Aldo]

A community-sourced Legacy, or if some of us had our way, G3... well, that's an interesting thought. But let's not get ahead of ourselves without even so much as an official response.

 

As Macey's rightly said, not much else to add except I look forward to a response from HCS, but moreso Zorg, regarding this matter. At the end of the day, regardless of what's good for the game and community, this is the product of Zorg's years of hardwork and time investment. A lot of us have been playing since G2 (and quite a few since G1) and so we have a considerable amount of time investment in this game as well, some as Staff, as Guides, as community symbols, but most importantly as players and so I don't think it's that farfetched for some of these very people to maybe one day become part of the leading force behind Legacy's direction. But Zorg was the one who enabled us, and in turn we enabled him.

 

So I'll agree with whatever he'd like to do, if anything or nothing.

 

~Aldo