67 replies to this topic

[Mister Doom]

So recently (when the new SE's came out) I started thinking about content. Old content future content and how we seem to just be levelling up into infinity. What if things could be a little different though?

So anyway, here's my idea...

As we get closer to level 2,000 we start to hear rumours in our quests about trouble stirring  in the evil ranks. The dreadlord, risen once more and tired of his 'alliance' with the shadowlord is trying to revive one of our old foes. As we proceed we get entangled in the sinister plot and find out he has resurrected the evil SE xinderoth in order to use his control of xind magic, combined with his own necromancy to overthrow the shadowlord and claim the evil throne for his own!

As we ge more and more caught up it becomes clear that this new duo provides much more of a threat to the status quo than the Shadowlord and we are force into a 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' scenario. Teaming up with our arch nemesis to take them down.

Without going into too much detail, our quest would involve killing lots of Se's, finally attaining the 'Fallen Sword' and using it to finally kill the Dreadlord and the resurrected Xinderoth once and for good. Of course the shadowlord would try and take advantage, which would lead to possibly the single most important aspect of my idea.

At the final point in the quest line (at level 2,000) we'd be given an option.
To use the sword in a self sacrificing way, killing the shadowlord but also ourselves. Resetting ourselves back down to level one.

OR

Twisting the power of the sword to cause all of the other evil beings to serve us and bring down the shadowlord for us.
Enabling us to continue on into 'mirror content' where we would in essence run through almost identical content, except from an evil point of view.

In the first scenario. Getting sent back down to level one, there would obviously have to be some benefits. My thought on this would be to remove all of our skills and access to higher skills, but allow us to keep say one tenth of our points? So 500 skill points. Along with 500 LUP points. However having 500 extra LUP at the beginning of the game would render most of the first portion meaningless, so these points would be hard coded into our stats. Eg we'd get 100 atk, Def, Arm, Dam and Hp.

In the second scenario. The mirror content would be the simpler solution for HCS, as they have to rewrite the quests (to portray us as evil) and alter the creature stats, but the realm maps, creature images and main points of the quests could remain the same.

The other thing I'd like to see after completing the 'End of game' quest is a 'Fallen Sword' Epic sword. Well technically two version. A 'good' which would be a level 1 weapon and an 'evil' which would be a level 2000 weapon. Both would obviously have 'battle stats' fitting for their level, however I believe the enhancement and 'gains' should be identical.

There would also have to be some form of reset at the end of evil content too, though that is certainly far enough away as to not have to think of right now.

Edited by Mister Doom, 25 October 2013 - 09:36.

[motherwolf]

very cool idea but i'm a long way from there but something i could look forward to

[aa0007]

I'm pretty sure a cap was suggested at 1000, 1500, and now 2000 ... I personally would have preferred to see this at level 1000, but yeah, I'm all in favor of creating a level cap. Let people run through content as many times as they want . I'm a bit opposed to the second idea (at least, the rewriting of all of the quests). Alternatively what could happen is a name and graphical change for each of the creatures after the fallen sword corrupts them ... so "Corrupted Rat" or something of the sort, with a negative image. I think it would be pretty simple to implement, and would keep people busy for the next 2 years or so. 

[DeadParrot]

+1 for the ascension idea.

 

I've been pushing for this, we can't keep leveling to infinity.  Some benefits:

- an ascension counter on the profile

- a special avi, or dark browser theme for ascended characters

- special "arenas" and mini-games for ascended characters (no elaboration)

- additional enhancements, even if aesthetic in nature

- forum, character badges, etc....

 

again, a great idea for level 2,000.

[midgetmanj]

+1  Be an awesome adition to the game and give people a lot more to do.  Obviously a lot more has to be gone into it but an alright has an idea

[Brinmoth]

Though I personally am probably never going to reach this. I think it's a facinating idea. Would give quite few people a purpose to reach those lofty hights of level 2000 and add quite a bit of  longevity to the game... I approve!

[Anonemesis]

lol love both dooms and dead parrots ideas, though this would have to be really thought out before implemented as midget said, at the very least if the levels do continue pass 2k, at least when all ideas are exhausted this will be a fresh one xD

Edited by xAnonemesisx, 25 October 2013 - 13:18.

[jinks]

Great idea.

 

I agree there has to be some limit/goal/end game, and something of this nature will surely peak a lot more interest than just delevelling/relevelling.

 

I like the reset to lvl 1 idea mixed with aa's idea about Corrupting everything, realistically (most) people at EoC wont go for that, too much fsp to lose with no titans, se's, buffs etc etc.

 

However, I dont see any down sides to the above 2000 idea, it will give a new angle on things, without a smaller amount of work from HCS, but something a bit different as players level through everything again.

 

Gotta have a bit of evil now and then

[yghorbeviahn]

I really agreed with some kind of finish to the game.

Your proposals are very nice for the players, but I don't know how will be the guilds. The top ones will lose the relic defenders, the prior source of gxp, donations, etc.

So I believe we need to figure out a better solution than reset everyone to lvl 1 when they hit lvl2000. 

And about you keep the lvls, but you need to go again to the original lvl 1 map, but with lvl2000 mob only visible to players who have hitted the end.

You can receive an Epic item with +6 stamina gain or so and a badge on your profile. (maybe more prizes)

That way HCS just need to recreate the mobs and some quests.

(I'm not sure about the lvl2000 being an end, we're already very close to that, don't know if HCS will have time to figure all that until that, maybe 2200 can be a good number)

[rowbeth]

Have to say that I have absolutely no interest in a level reset. And shadow world from an evil perspective? That's something I wouldn't identify with and at best would just make me lose any pretense of following quest story lines.

 

I think its probably too late to think of a reset like that, and the game would lose more addicted players than it can afford to. Just as importantly, I can't see what in such a plan would encourage senior players to continue to invest real money into the game. To make this work, there would need to be some  new aspect to the leveling that would enable players to develop their characters in a completely new way. But that would really need a new battle system, which would really be saying "make a new game".

[Belaric]

I like the idea of an end of game, but it would be the END of the game, not a step into an alternate/reset/dressed up continuation of the game, all of which sound at this point like far more work for HCS than the status quo, which is more levels.

 

If you propose an end which is just a twist to make diehards either replay the game from 1 with extras, or enter an alternate dimension of evil game play, you have just doubled the amount of work for the cows while halving the number of players who take each option, assuming there was a 50/50 split. That seems entirely unworkable to me, however attractive it may seem initially. I would think if any player chooses to become the Shadowlord then that should be it, game over, (unless the game suddenly morphs into Dungeonmaster) what new challenges should he face other than a bunch of 'heroes' trying to take him down - heroes who would be far more powerful than the old Shadowlord if they are hard enough to challenge the player character - which plainly doesn't make much sense as why then did they not trash the Shadowlord already? That is a plot issue and not really the point.

 

The point is why do you want the game to end? Are there other games you can point to that have ends and work well, and are still going? Rowbeth nailed it with her comment that you are asking for an end to the current game and then the creation effectively of a new game under the FS umbrella. I do not think HCS have the dev power for such an approach.

 

 

So why not stick with more levels? Yep - we'd like them to be more interesting. Yep, levelling is "boring" (I disagree), but if you have an end with a twist and the twist does not work, people walk away anyway. No game has any right to eternal life, and FS has survived longer than many other online efforts. I also like the idea an end of game at say 2500, with 300-400 levels of content with solid storylines and genuine excitement building up to a finale worth playing through. Doubt I'll get that though. The Dreadlord resurrecting Xindy as his catspaw against the Shadowlord is a top plot device. I like a returned Xindy all on his own as a great idea (see my bio blurb), but I'll not get sidetracked for once...

 

What is the incentive for HCS to kill the golden goose by creating an end? If it is not an end but merely the start of a new storyline post Shadowlord, then how is it substantially different from now - there would still be carping about getting the new content of the new storyline out there.

 

I have no problem with an open ended game, if the content remains intriguing. This comes down to plot lines and quests, for me. The replay the game as evil would require all the games quests to be rewritten - why not channel that creativity into having the new content questlines really work well and play out over hundreds of levels to satisfying conclusions? Like the Lishka storyline squared or cubed. That could rock. And have rewards created as part of the storylines, building towards a finale, if it must be done. The starting at level 1 with an epic sword and hardwired stats - how interesting could that be? I'm not thrilled at that idea. I don't know if it would induce me to play again, and what happens when you have run through twice?

 

Finally. RJEM's Quest for the Fallen Sword idea is too good to forget. Shards of the sword are found all across the realms (at any level) and must be brought back to the catheral to be remade. When the sword is remade, events happen, but the sword is unstable and shatters, so beginning the process again. This is such a fabulous mechanic I just had to mention it again. This could be used to open end of game content for a limited time, so players who want to have a showdown with the Shadowlord can have a go - they can then finish the game, heave a sigh of relief and be done. Only one player each time, whoever possesses the Fallen Sword when it is remade. There could be a tournament to earn the right to wield the sword, or it goes to whoever found the most shards (FOUND - not bought from finders!), or it could be utterly random, so that the sword could go to a level 5 noob who cannot defeat the Shadowlord... this time. And indeed the first time out the SL may be far too hard to kill, we see his stats, realise we need another 500 levels of stats and sexy gear to be able to nail him, and wait for our next chance. The portal closes, the sword shatters, the Shadowlord is reborn (if killed - for can evil truly die?), the rest of the game goes on as before. There is an end if you want it. The slayers of the SL go onto an all time list of conquerors of the game and there you are. Does that have an appeal? 

Edited by Belaric, 25 October 2013 - 22:34.

[onray24]

reset the game?? why when they could make all the levels a darker mirror levels jack the stats up on all the beasts  and you have 2000 more levels with new gear and quests the chance for more higher titans higher se and le  

[yotwehc]

 (FOUND - not bought from finders!)

So basically an event for anyone at EOC only because found shards for non EOC players would be useless as they can not beat back the boss

 

(unless I read it wrong... sooo many words... soo little brain cells)

[Belaric]

So basically an event for anyone at EOC only because found shards for non EOC players would be useless as they can not beat back the boss

 

(unless I read it wrong... sooo many words... soo little brain cells)

 

The Fallen sword finding is on another thread somewhere, and can be the trigger for all kinds of events, not just ones for EOC players.

 

The Quest for the Fallen Sword mechanism was envisaged as something the community could hunt for, put together and trigger globals, or legendary releases, or spine releases, or mini XP events (like everyone gains 5% extra XP etc.), or open up portals to quango or enchanted forest, in short a random event. The cows could control what happens each time the sword is assembled, and one of those options could be an attempt by one player to try to control the Fallen Sword (via possible methods mentioned above) and take out the Shadowlord, win the game, enter the Hall of Fame and be done playing the game. At least that is how I'd have it done. If you want to finish the game, you are finishing and exiting stage right.

 

In my very long post I merely alluded to the one possible event that could enable players to try to take on the Shadowlord in an end of game content area. So yes it would be for EOC players, which does make sense, unless you imagine the Shadowlord is a jumped up psychic rat with mommy issues that anyone can step on once he is found? If you have no problem with a level 5 finishing the game off by killing the Shadowlord then maybe that could be done as an option.

 

However I have little hope that the Quest for the Fallen Sword mechanism would be used - it got a lot of positive feedback back in the day, but was not picked up on.

[yotwehc]

So yes it would be for EOC players, which does make sense, unless you imagine the Shadowlord is a jumped up psychic rat with mommy issues that anyone can step on once he is found?

Even this is too long of an answer. In your RL job, do you get paid per word? :-p

The trigger for an event is a good idea but making an eoc only player event and kicking winner out doesn't seen like a good idea to me but who knows. And the first winner will be against a smaller pool of players as well. :/

[yotekiller]

In the first scenario. Getting sent back down to level one, there would obviously have to be some benefits. My thought on this would be to remove all of our skills and access to higher skills, but allow us to keep say one tenth of our points? So 500 skill points. Along with 500 LUP points. However having 500 extra LUP at the beginning of the game would render most of the first portion meaningless, so these points would be hard coded into our stats. Eg we'd get 100 atk, Def, Arm, Dam and Hp.

  I don't think this is a realistic option without switching worlds and separating rollover players from regular players.  If you don't, you will have some level 1's with no base stats and some level 1's with mega base stats which would horribly skew pvp, gvg and arena.  If you do rollover to a new world then you are basically re-inventing the game for some players but until the majority of players start rolling over it will be a very lonely existence with none of the same guilds, etc.

  While I understand you want something new to attain and challenge you, I don't see any way to smoothly transition players to something else without damaging the existing game.  Depending on participation levels, splitting off a portion of the current players may spell the death of both worlds which would defeat the purpose entirely.

[Mister Doom]

  I don't think this is a realistic option without switching worlds and separating rollover players from regular players.  If you don't, you will have some level 1's with no base stats and some level 1's with mega base stats which would horribly skew pvp, gvg and arena.  If you do rollover to a new world then you are basically re-inventing the game for some players but until the majority of players start rolling over it will be a very lonely existence with none of the same guilds, etc.

  While I understand you want something new to attain and challenge you, I don't see any way to smoothly transition players to something else without damaging the existing game.  Depending on participation levels, splitting off a portion of the current players may spell the death of both worlds which would defeat the purpose entirely.

 

A much simpler solution would be a badge or medal that indicated you have 'reset'.

Simply not allowing pvp/gvg interactions between reset and non reset fixes the 'balance' issues instantly.

 

Although this would really be preferable as it would alienate the 'reset' players somewhat.

New players get true pvp protection at the beginning of the game so the differences at level 1 wouldn't mean much. By level 25 players can equip gear and/or have access to guild/relic bonus too so these 'unbalanced stats' kind of exist already. Perhaps 100 points to each stat is a little too strong, I'm not sure.

LUP don't affect arena so that wouldn't need to be changed at all.

Edited by Mister Doom, 26 October 2013 - 16:19.

[yghorbeviahn]

If the game simply start over, without changing levels, let me explain.

If you need to start at Mountain Path again, but you will only see mobs lvl 2001, the maps would be the same (maybe only changing colours to become 'evil'), but HCS will need to keep creating mobs, quests and gear, but unless they will not need to create more maps.

Everything will stay the same, but no one will be able to see the players/mobs/SEs/titans/etc from 'dark' realm on World, and to change back to 'normal' World you will need to use a new portal on Mountain Path (usable only for lvl2000+ which have finished the end quest).

On lvl2401 you'll see a kind of Xinderoth, on 950'ish a new face of Karthark, that's to not talk about a very pimp lvl 2001 Rat =P

But I believe the early maps will need some work, since the first lvls are pretty messed up.

[abeaudry]

I think HCS should have done something like this long ago. As a new player just starting out in this game I would probably quit or not even start given that without spending money it would take me years to reach end of content.

 

Some other games use reincarnation to effectively reused old content (since we can't name other games on here I can't state any names). So to go on the same theme as doom. When you finish the quest as doom suggests you are given the choice to reincarnate. Regardless of choices cosmetic (etc.) it resets you back to level 1 with benefits for doing so. So in effect the devs would be able to reuse the same content over and over. This would allow them more time to go back through and fix old issues.

 

There are many things they could do to make this attractive. Say you could choose to keep a number of  buffs of any level, extra stats, reincarnation gear, cosmetic changes to the players account to show they have reincarnated, etc.

 

They could add new quests or maps throughout the game that would be only accessable to reincarnated players. So in effect re-leveling up would be completely different then the first time.

[Belaric]

Yeah but reincarnating in other games gives you improved (larger number of) base stats and the ability to build an entirely new character, new classes etc, while retaining old gear and skills from previous lives.... FS does not have those kinds of mechanics.

 

Look, if it can be done in a way that is interesting - great, let's have reset characters. But if it means running through the game again from level 1... I'm not sure I see the excitement. If it is running through the game from level 1 fighting mobs with upgraded stats to 2001+ strength, then why not simply keep going with new content - the pics are already reused, and running through the same content would be dull. If you create alternate realms for reset characters... we are running into this not saving any work for the cows and how is that different from simply adding levels to the top.

 

The comment has been made that "If I joined this game now and saw how long it would take to reach the end I'd not bother."

Surely the other perspective also exists. "I joined this game today and it rocks knowing I'll never run out of content!"

 

If the game had been capped at 1000, I'd have been through the content twice by now. Would I still be playing it through a third time? I have no idea. Seems unlikely, but it is an unknowable hypothetical. Like the two comments above.

 

Anyway - good chat subject Mister Doom, think I've said my bits and pieces on it. It is worth thinking about.