51 replies to this topic

[Darkbusta]

Before I start, if this thread is in the wrong sub forum or it's already been talked about elsewhere I apologise.

 

So I'm writing this thread today, after wanting to for some time, to bring to your attention a problem within FS, and that is "Unresolved Combat". This topic is mainly GvG based, as in every other aspect of PvP, an "Unresolved Combat" doesn't really affect anything.

 

For example, in a normal PvP attack, you only lose 10-100 stamina, depending on how much you like someone, (100 stamming means you like someone a lot  ), and maybe a little bit of durability in your gear, which may cost 2-3k to fix. BUT, you don't lose any experience, which is good.

 

Same goes for the ladder. You lose stamina, but no experience OR PvP rating, so nothing vital is affected.

 

The Bounty Board is a little bit different. Again you only lose stamina, but an "Unresolved Combat" can lead you to not being the first person to get all 10 successful attacks completed, but the way the Bounty Board is nowadays you'll only usually be missing out on 1FSP at the most.

 

Now onto the annoying part, GvG conflicts. Now I know the attacker should be 100% sure they can win the fight, although sometimes the 2% rule can come round and bite you on the ass somewhat. You should always be aware of the buffs that are on the players you are targeting. But let's say for example the guild attacking you has 50/50 hits completed with no misses, and you get one "Unresolved Combat", you lose the conflict 50-49. Personally I don't feel this is entirely fair, as an "Unresolved Combat" is technically a draw, no one loses, no one wins, so why does it count as a failed attack?

 

This is just how I feel, I know there will be a handful of players outs there who thinks it's a good idea, but from responses I've received a lot of people feel the same way about this as I do.

 

Let's here some thoughts and see if we can get this changed! 

[Undjuvion]

i read your post joe, without any bias here i think it is something that should not count as a loss, i never minded either way though it is true, it is a drawn combat, a victor was not decided, it is no different to a deflected attack, a victor was not established.

 

 

edit: wording says it all UNRESOLVED, there was no winner :-)

Edited by Undjuvion, 06 May 2016 - 14:23.

[BigGrim]

Personally I don't feel this is entirely fair, as an "Unresolved Combat" is technically a draw, no one loses, no one wins, so why does it count as a failed attack?

 

Hey there.

 

It's pretty much as simple as this.

 

Did your attack succeed? No? Then your attack failed. A draw still means you failed to beat your opponent.

 

~ Grim

[Undjuvion]

Hey there.

 

It's pretty much as simple as this.

 

Did your attack succeed? No? Then your attack failed. A draw still means you failed to beat your opponent.

 

~ Grim

 

by that logic BG, did u fail? no, the defender failed to kill you, so... you would have kept swinging till one of you was dead

 

unresolved combat is like saying there was peace talks, though im sure joe doesnt want peace so the defender needs to kill him or die

[sweetlou]

Did your attack succeed? No? Then your attack failed. A draw still means you failed to beat your opponent.

There's a contradiction only a game could justify. A draw doesn't mean failure, it means it's a tie. It should be replayed. The luck buffs with the extraordinarily high percentage they kick has contributed to the unpopularity of GvG.

[Tharsonius]

I agree with BigGrim. One guild managed to make every single attack count, the other guild did not manage to make every single attack count. For one of the combats the defender was so good that (s)he could withstand the attacker.

 

Even if the defender could not win against the attacker (s)he could at least hold him/her at bay. That is not so easy to achieve and should count for something (like it is the case for bounties, which is good the way it is).

Edited by Tharsonius, 06 May 2016 - 14:39.

[Tharsonius]

Additional note: For a guild conflict you choose the *number of attacks* to perform, not the number of kills needed. Both guilds get the same number of attacks and the guild that has more kills with that number wins the conflict. Sounds fair to me.

[BigGrim]

A draw doesn't mean failure, it means it's a tie.

 

Nope. You failed to defeat your opponent. Pretty straight forward.

[Undjuvion]

I agree with BigGrim. One guild managed to make every single attack count, the other guild did not manage to make every single attack count. For one of the combats the defender was so good that (s)he could withstand the attacker.

 

Even if the defender could not win against the attacker (s)he could at least hold him/her at bay. That is not so easy to achieve and should count for something (like it is the case for bounties, which is good the way it is).

 

you are talking about a defending guild getting lucky... as joe said and this can happen TO the defending guild when trying to beat a buffed or half buffed attacking guild, the defender is always at a disadvantage in regards to unresolved combats

[Undjuvion]

Nope. You failed to defeat your opponent. Pretty straight forward.

 

there is no failure if the decision was not seen, there was no end or outcome BG, all that happened was you TRIED to beat your opponent BUT the system rules WONT allow an outcome

 

edit: failure or success was not found 404!

 

edit2: luis cant even tell u whether he failed or succeeded cos none of us got to find out.

 

getting rude now but thats how ridiculous it is when u put thought into it..

Edited by Undjuvion, 06 May 2016 - 14:51.

[sweetlou]

Nope. You failed to defeat your opponent. Pretty straight forward.

I beg your pardon. Let's go to the definition:

 

draw
drô/

noun
noun: draw; plural noun: draws

    1.
    an act of selecting names randomly, typically by extracting them from a bag or other container, to match competitors in a game or tournament.
    "the draw has been made for this year's tournament"
    2.
    a game that ends with the score even; a tie.
    synonyms: tie, dead heat, stalemate
    "the match ended in a draw"

 

I happen to agree with the original post. That's all. Ties are normally replayed where I come from. Ask some kids if you don't believe me.

[Plexus37]

I agree with BG also. Its upto the attacker to be prepared and accept the result.

Maybe just the wording needs tweaking in GvG table to 'Successful' Incoming/Outgoing attacks.

 

Scoring
A score point is only gained upon a victory for an attack initiated by you. If you initiate the attack, and the other player is victorious, "OR IT IS UNRESOLVED, THEN NEITHER TEAM,"  gets a point for their guild.

Edited by Plexus37, 06 May 2016 - 15:27.

[BigGrim]

I happen to agree with the original post. That's all. Ties are normally replayed where I come from. Ask some kids if you don't believe me.

 

I don't need a dictionary, thank you. You have been told how it is decided. If it were replayed, that would effectively be another attack. Now please, drop it.

[leefylee]

if you want to call unresolved combat a draw or a loss, is either here nor there,its not a win for the attacker so it should be a point dropped for attacking guild..

[Tharsonius]

The Guild Conflict page clearly is about a fixed number of attacks and says that a "score point is only gained upon a *victory* for an attack initiated by you" (my emphasis). So what counts is the number of *initiated* attacks and how many victories are obtained from these. A draw may not be defeat/loss but it is neither a victory. Which of the guilds initiated the conflict doesn't really change that notion, or does it?

 

If one guild gets 50 victories with 50 attacks and the other gets 49 victories (+1 draw) with 50 attacks, then the guild with 50/50 wins the conflict.

 

As I said, that sounds fair to me, although this may not be easy for the guild that didn't initiate the conflict (because the initiating guild will likely be fully buffed until the conflict is over). But it's often the case that the defender has a disadvantage, also in plain simple PvP, on the bounty board, on the ladder, ... name what ever you want.

 

Actually, I find this to be a realistic aspect of the game (the attacker is often more prepared than a surprised defender). If we really wanted to even this out (which would be unrealistic) we'd have to let no buffs at all count in PvP; not for the bounty board, not for conflicts, not for the ladder, not for "private" (true?) PvP.

Edited by Tharsonius, 06 May 2016 - 16:22.

[sweetlou]

I don't need a dictionary, thank you. You have been told how it is decided. If it were replayed, that would effectively be another attack. Now please, drop it.

Drop what? I'm only one voice agreeing with the poster in a healthy debate. Why try to silence that conversation?

[Mister Doom]

At the end of the day there are only two outcomes that matter in the confrontation.

 

A win and a loss.

 

Win = You defeat your enemy and the victory is yours.

Loss = Every other eventuality.

 

It really isn't that difficult to comprehend.

[Ringhal]

Agree with OP

 

Nope. You failed to defeat your opponent. Pretty straight forward.

 

At the end of the day there are only two outcomes that matter in the confrontation.

 

A win and a loss.

 

Win = You defeat your enemy and the victory is yours.

Loss = Every other eventuality.

 

It really isn't that difficult to comprehend.

By that logic, a deflected attack should also count as a loss?

[WWWolf]

I have to agree with Grim here...  When you are attacking a creature and the combat is unresolved it still counts as a loss and your kill streak gets reset.  I don't see why PvP should count any different. You failed to hit your opponent with enough force to kill it.  Just because it didn't kill you, it doesn't mean you didn't fail.

[Mister Doom]

A deflected attack = The fight never happened. (It was deflected)

I'm fairly sure deflected attacks don't count as losses since it would add too much uncertainty to the GvG system. Everyone would be purely at the mercy of the RNG.

 

This doesn't apply to the current discussion however.

Edited by Mister Doom, 06 May 2016 - 18:30.