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#1 HuMoR

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 14:48

This thread is not for attacking HCS so do not band wagon with individuals and attack them,this is about suggestions for possible directions the game could head in.

Ok so I would like to start off by saying I am not attacking HCS in anyway and that it is their game so they can choose what they do to do with it. 

But I have concerns for the current state of the game and its limitations regarding templars,mages,even prophets yes and fabled weapon sets and world bosses/pvp.
 

TL:DR classes need to be rebalanced fixed,fabled weapon sets need buffs to be desirable,world bosses,pvp and toc need to be redone,reworked and better rewards.


Templars-regardless of the lvl aggro/threat is a very big problem for most from what I can see,statements have been made on things that can be done adding threat to implale(by  a dev) fixing inciting cry(player base) or even adding extra threat productions onto already existent skills. Why not just do them all? it can't cause any harm unless over done to make it op and not a challenge,do all in moderation to create a larger variety in build possibilities. change or difference isn't wrong I advise it as no one wants everyone to be exactly the same, we need variety.

Mages- what once use to be a great class is now a dead class,has been shadowed for a while but this class is in all honesty dead,the least populated class in the entire game and for a good reason,it stinks now not good at single target dps and not even comparable to other AOe classes,and even has dungeons that decrease its damage making them even more so less effective then other classes. (decent at pvp but as pvp isn't a truly populated area you can see where the problem exists not being good enough for pve and pvp not being fun for it to be used.). slight buffs to its dps or even a decrease to its cd's could be a easy fix just try to balance it out so people actually play it again.

Prophets-great class truly dominant in pvp,but also very limited on what you can actually use. you are forced between 2 choices in all honesty for this class and they are basically identical builds a haste build speced for  healing,or a pure heal build with slow rotations based off pure healing,due to moves not being able to crit for this class(some moves) a crit build isn't a viable option for most. need more variety throughout the classes. 

Sapphires- this again a big problem for the current state of the game is the healing class is detoured to specing into a different styled class as mage stinks so they are forced to spec a different style and regain armor from scratch some leave the game in the process it needs a fix. Sapphires need a nice buff to become even considerably effective,as its current ratio to haste in beneficial scenarios is what, 99-1%? it needs a buff.

new possible gem- as discussed in world chat for a hour today and in private with individuals, this gem should be a haste gem and should be postponed till classes are moderately balanced and fixed nicely. a new haste gem can only help all classes as it gives more variety and possibilities.

Fabled sets- This is a big end game killer at the moment. The set bonuses aren't beneficial enough if at all for classes to go for them at this point in time. few reasons for this are rolls vs gems. I'm not saying to nerf the rolls at all so don't do that lol would kill a economy of its own. But for all the classes there are current builds where fabled set are a downgrade and that's a problem. These sets should be focused on benefiting the class style they represent by what it is not a individual build. These sets are all based off the current offensive status of every class except for templars.

Prophet= 2% extra healing,3 sockets that with perfect gems can be 8% total extra healing and that is at perfect. so losing 18% haste cap for this is very...bad and makes it undesirable.
Mages- this focuses off its only real damage sorcery dmg,and doesn't help on low dmg high haste built classes as they need higher haste or even pure crit builds that focus on crit speeds.
Templars- 2% extra def is kind of backwards as you will lose out on a high block rolled shield and be forced to now buy gems and such for a upgrade to stats that are less then the upgrade to a gem.
List could be continued surely with rangers,warriors and sins but I'm stopping here.

The fabled sets need to be more desirable without making them madly op,if this doesn't happen ascended dungeons will continue to not be ran by more then like 10 people. Most players at end game just say the set bonus isn't worth the time spent in doing dungeons and refuse to run them making less runs possible for those who would like to run them. 

This is not a rant,it is just based points off the current game that need to be looked at.
This last part is obviously just a suggestion for world bosses and pvp.

PVP-some rebalancing is very much needed for this to become populated,I won't name off classes or nerfing but there are basically 2 classes that are tanks in this game atm and when it takes a entire team just to attempt a kill and still not succeed it becomes irritating. when it was 5v5 you could actually kill this class i"m speaking of with 4v4 it is almost impossible, not enough dmg being dealt to make up for the regains. 

World bosses-Needs a giant revamp,its dying more so now then ever. a lot wont even bother with this event anymore and refuse to until its changed. The problem is right now there are no world bosses in the game yet(until plasma lord comes in) right now there are only raid bosses and they lack mechanics,incentives,and pleasure. There are tons of things to be done with these current raid bosses to make them fun for all who group up to go against. World bosses we need them,this is the enjoyment that entire servers come together for to slay a giant world boss for all to be rewarded for their efforts.


Make new armor sets for world bosses! make them = to or even better then dungeon sets and make them far more rarer and unique and tiered to the players lvl. so if a lvl 5 gets the rare drop its a wb set lvl 5 heroic set piece or a lvl 20 kills it gets a lvl 20 set piece or such. This gives more variety,more incentive,enjoyment and sense of accomplishment. 

ToC- again a large part of the game,but very inactive due to the same reasons for the 2 above,no incentives,rewards or enjoyment coming from it. this too needs its own sets tiered by lvls. and to be somewhat more rewarding for the time consumed by it,instead of a giant repair bill and lower gems. with that being said i enjoy toC but...it shouldnt be a op gem dropper like it used to be.

people aren't realizing there are tons of end content in the game already they can do,the problem is there is no reason to do them right now other then raid bosses once a week,which is a giant issue.
 


Edited by HuMoR, 09 June 2014 - 18:13.

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#2 Melody

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 14:50

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#3 Alteration

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 15:03

Prophets-great class truly dominant in pvp,but also very limited on what you can actually use. you are forced between 2 choices in all honesty for this class and they are basically identical builds a haste build speced for  healing,or a pure heal build with slow rotations based off pure healing,due to moves not being able to crit for this class(some moves) a crit build isn't a viable option for most. need more variety throughout the classes. 

Sapphires- this again a big problem for the current state of the game is the healing class is detoured to specing into a different styled class as mage stinks so they are forced to spec a different style and regain armor from scratch some leave the game in the process it needs a fix. Sapphires need a nice buff to become even considerably effective,as its current ratio to haste in beneficial scenarios is what, 99-1%? it needs a buff.

new possible gem- as discussed in world chat for a hour today and in private with individuals, this gem should be a haste gem and should be postponed till classes are moderately balanced and fixed nicely. a new haste gem can only help all classes as it gives more variety and possibilities.
 

I, and at least a couple of other prophets I've talked to, believe that haste is overrated.  The fabled set still adds a lot of stats over using rare BT staff/essence, and pure dps prophet, pure crit prophet, even hybrid mage/prophet (for better damage skills) and hybrid templar/prophets (for better defense) are all viable even in endgame ASV content (never tried ARG).  

 

Rather, the problem is that the haste rolls are overpowered.  A max roll BT haste/haste staff + max roll BT haste essence can bring the total haste of a prophet to 76%, enough to have dogma and crimson chain completely up all the time.  I don't think it's actually fun to just press 1111111111111 the entire fight in dungeons though, so I play around with different builds.  I also believe that a class is NOT MEANT to be played using ONLY 2 abilities alone, so I think that haste rolls on rare gear should be *reduced*.

 

If the haste rolls did not give a ridiculous amount of 6% haste/roll, then sapphires, agates, and other caster gems are all viable for different variations of prophet builds.  

 

Waits for all the bashing from the other prophets :P


Edited by Alteration, 09 June 2014 - 15:04.


#4 xpwaste

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 15:09

Toc was good, it was exploited which isnt really an exploit , it was grinding[ doing the same task again and again to earn rewards] and they nerfed it to the point where it became useless.

The best weapon set in game is a dungeon set , wihch directly sucks. it is a linear pattern since the start of the game and your left to drag yourself with other team members, which is not how someone should get the "best" set.

Pvp needs works and is being worked upon, but until real risk/reward is added in it. it will be just a thing to do to enjoy and nothing else.

World bosses , is a lag fest. not really a world boss anyways.

Majority of issue is no solo content for mid levels i.e. being forced to group up to get sets.

The end gamers, have nothing to do which is worthwhile or makes them better from others in anyway. hence no competition at end game.

 

If less players said "waiting for a group from my dungeon since morning". More might start playing. just saying it matters. :)


Edited by xpwaste, 09 June 2014 - 15:16.

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#5 xpwaste

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 15:14

TL:DR classes need to be rebalanced fixed

More diversity per class.

Or a rework on the type of mobs.


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#6 HuMoR

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 15:16

I, and at least a couple of other prophets I've talked to, believe that haste is overrated.  The fabled set still adds a lot of stats over using rare BT staff/essence, and pure dps prophet, pure crit prophet, even hybrid mage/prophet (for better damage skills) and hybrid templar/prophets (for better defense) are all viable even in endgame ASV content (never tried ARG).  

 

Rather, the problem is that the haste rolls are overpowered.  A max roll BT haste/haste staff + max roll BT haste essence can bring the total haste of a prophet to 76%, enough to have dogma and crimson chain completely up all the time.  I don't think it's actually fun to just press 1111111111111 the entire fight in dungeons though, so I play around with different builds.  I also believe that a class is NOT MEANT to be played using ONLY 2 abilities alone, so I think that haste rolls on rare gear should be *reduced*.

 

If the haste rolls did not give a ridiculous amount of 6% haste/roll, then sapphires, agates, and other caster gems are all viable for different variations of prophet builds.  

 

Waits for all the bashing from the other prophets :P

I created a unique build that isnt used by most prophets that is about reducing incoming damage and then letting off light heals in between and thats its focus. and it requires haste for this build to even be considered. A change for me  to use fabled weps throws me under the bus and forces me to make just another casual prophet build. which is where the problem lies.


Edited by HuMoR, 09 June 2014 - 16:23.

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#7 Alteration

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 15:21

ToC- again a large part of the game,but very inactive due to the same reasons for the 2 above,no incentives,rewards or enjoyment coming from it. this too needs its own sets tiered by lvls. and to be somewhat more rewarding for the time consumed by it,instead of a giant repair bill and lower gems. with that being said i enjoy toC but...it shouldnt be a op gem dropper like it used to be.

 

ToC was NEVER an op gem dropper.  The gem drop rate was GREATLY EXAGGERATED by those who didn't have time to do it then (and didn't want to fall behind and lose their "elite" status).  RG (when it first came out, averaged at 40-50 minutes/run) dropped ALOT more gems than ToC ever did.  It (RG) can now be done in 16-20 minutes by full geared tanks.  That is more than 3-4x better gem drop rate, than ToC ever was.

 

 ToC need to have rewards every 5-10 levels, even if it is just npcable gear.  People used to do the minimum number of waves for a reward, because you ONLY GET 5 DROPS, EVEN IF YOU CLEAR 100 WAVES.  The system for rewarding ToC runs was what needed to be changed, not the drops themselves.  

 

And the buff lower levels received upon entering ToC (like the PvP buff) does not work as well, because while a level 30 can join level 45's, and have 7k hp and 1.5k dps, he will still glance everything for 1 damage only.  A buff to accuracy should also be applied.  


Edited by Alteration, 09 June 2014 - 15:28.


#8 Alteration

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 15:24

I created a unique build that isnt used by most prophets that is about reducing incoming damage and then letting off light heals in between and thats its focus. and it requires haste for this build to even be considered. A upgrade to fable throws me under the bus and forces me to make just another casual prophet build. which is where the problem lies.

Ok, sorry.  You said light heals, and I don't know what you're build actually is.  But redemption doesn't need haste, if you get salvation.  And you don't have to completely rely on just dogma, a fully buffed revitalize with crit gems in fabled gear can hit 65% crit rate and 5k critical revitalize, with 0 cooldown in between casts.  Most prophets are underestimating revitalize, because of the emphasis on just maximizing haste.  

 

I still believe that haste rolls should be nerfed in random roll rare gear, and if haste gems are added, the total still should not hit 75% haste (like it is right now).  


Edited by Alteration, 09 June 2014 - 15:30.


#9 HuMoR

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 15:35

ToC was NEVER an op gem dropper.  The gem drop rate was GREATLY EXAGGERATED by those who didn't have time to do it then (and didn't want to fall behind and lose their "elite" status).  RG (when it first came out, averaged at 40-50 minutes/run) dropped ALOT more gems than ToC ever did.  It (RG) can now be done in 16-20 minutes by full geared tanks.  That is more than 3-4x better gem drop rate, than ToC ever was.

 

 ToC need to have rewards every 5-10 levels, even if it is just npcable gear.  People used to do the minimum number of waves for a reward, because you ONLY GET 5 DROPS, EVEN IF YOU CLEAR 100 WAVES.  The system for rewarding ToC runs was what needed to be changed, not the drops themselves.  

 

And the buff lower levels received upon entering ToC (like the PvP buff) does not work as well, because while a level 30 can join level 45's, and have 7k hp and 1.5k dps, he will still glance everything for 1 damage only.  A buff to accuracy should also be applied.  

It was quite the OP dropper 7 minutes for 5 glims repeat process. thats...a lot of glims per hour which is far more then rg does atm.

 

 

Ok, sorry.  You said light heals, and I don't know what you're build actually is.  But redemption doesn't need haste, if you get salvation.  And you don't have to completely rely on just dogma, a fully buffed revitalize with crit gems in fabled gear can hit 65% crit rate and 5k critical revitalize, with 0 cooldown in between casts.  Most prophets are underestimating revitalize, because of the emphasis on just maximizing haste.  

 

I still believe that haste rolls should be nerfed in random roll rare gear, and if haste gems are added, the total still should not hit 75% haste (like it is right now).  

Much more then just redemption though,redemption,serenity,blind,bene,healing touch,snowfall. I shouldn't be forced to make a common prophet build just to be able to use a weapon set.

I shouldn't be forced to put points into a move for any and every build to be used. and forcing me to do so is the problem,and is why i wont use a fabled set as it ruins my build,i tried it without haste rolls and it was garb and couldn't keep the reductions up enough for the light heals. Now my build with its current haste I don't have to spam heals on everyone just spam my reductions on them and let off light heals every 20-30 seconds or so,which is why my build is unique and unlike the majority spamming dogma-cc or revit dogma cc.

being penalized for difference and choice of different prophet is ridiculous. everyone should have equal chances regardless of build. 


Edited by HuMoR, 09 June 2014 - 15:42.

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#10 Alteration

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 15:53

It was quite the OP dropper 7 minutes for 5 glims repeat process. thats...a lot of glims per hour which is far more then rg does atm.

Yes, but the chance of actually getting glims is around once in every 8 ish runs (1 chance of dropping glims in 1 hour).  Not all drop 5 glims (average of 2-3 glims per drop).  In maybe 2 weeks of doing ToC, I only saw all 5 rewards being glims twice.  That is an average of 2.5 glims per hour.  You think 2.5 glims / hour is more than RG drops now?  16 minute RG, or 4 runs/hour, drop at least 8 glims + 4 defineds (20 glims) in 1 hour, not even counting the ones dropped from all the trash mobs.  So stop exaggerating.  


Edited by Alteration, 09 June 2014 - 15:58.


#11 HuMoR

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 15:57

idk....i was around trying it when it first came out...and i got over like 10 in a hour..and everyone else got like 6-7 per hour or so. It doesn't matter who gets the gems they are still going into the gem circulation which makes it op because that could be thousands of glimmerings per day if everyone with this small pop chose to exploit it. which would make perfects a common thing by the time this game goes live on steam. So of course it did need a fix,and I reported the toc problem and I'm happy many others did also,it is meant to be a challenge to get perfect tier gems.3-4 glims avg per 7 minute trip is too many glims per hour.60/7=8.57 i'll just go with 8 so 8x3=24 glims 8x4=32 glims in between for avg thats 28 glims per hour 1 group could do alone. which is far more then RG can do right now at 3-4 hours,and that was with lvl 40 only...scaled up to 45 mobs with 45 weps and etc i'd take a guess and say it would go up roughly to like 32-34 glims per hour.

Also I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you,just saying changes are needed most definitely in regards to my OP. 
 


Edited by HuMoR, 09 June 2014 - 16:04.

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#12 Alteration

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 16:01

 

being penalized for difference and choice of different prophet is ridiculous. everyone should have equal chances regardless of build. 

This is normal.  Each build has it's own pros and cons.  You can't expect every single build out there to be the best build.  And if your build relies on haste, then fine.  But 75% haste is still stupid, because majority of prophets only cast 2 abilities, and I hate thinking that a class is reduced to 2 casts only.  Way to make a class completely boring/easy.



#13 Alteration

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 16:03

idk....i was around trying it when it first came out...and i got over like 10 in a hour..and everyone else got like 6-7 per hour or so. It doesn't matter who gets the gems they are still going into the gem circulation which makes it op because that could be thousands of glimmerings per day if everyone with this small pop chose to exploit it. which would make perfects a common thing by the time this game goes live on steam. So of course it did need a fix,and I reported the toc problem and I'm happy many others did also,it is meant to be a challenge to get perfect tier gems.

Also I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you,just saying changes are needed most definitely in regards to my OP. 
 

Then you were just lucky.  I had streaks, where 10 runs didn't get a single glim drop at all.  And never more than a 2 streak of glim drops.  And like I said, only saw 5 glim drops in 2 weeks of ToC.  And I ran it 3-4 hours a day.  Which is why I never considered it an exploit, and continued to do it.  Besides, I had a lot of fun meeting a lot of new people in ToC too.  

 

And I don't feel attacked.  Just saying my own experiences and opinions, like you are.  


Edited by Alteration, 09 June 2014 - 16:05.


#14 HuMoR

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 16:07

This is normal.  Each build has it's own pros and cons.  You can't expect every single build out there to be the best build.  And if your build relies on haste, then fine.  But 75% haste is still stupid, because majority of prophets only cast 2 abilities, and I hate thinking that a class is reduced to 2 casts only.  Way to make a class completely boring/easy.

An unneeded penalty is the point though. a fabled weapon set that only goes for 1 type of build for a class? what does that say for the game? "only use this build or you cant use a fabled weapon effectively" Umm I don't like the idea of that at all. 

 

 

Then you were just lucky.  I had streaks, where 10 runs didn't get a single glim drop at all.  And never more than a 2 streak of glim drops.  And like I said, only saw 5 glim drops in 2 weeks of ToC.  And I ran it 3-4 hours a day.  Which is why I never considered it an exploit, and continued to do it.  Besides, I had a lot of fun meeting a lot of new people in ToC too.  

 

And I don't feel attacked.  Just saying my own experiences and opinions, like you are.  

I don't feel it was luck as that was avg's,I had friends selling me heaps of glimmerings during that problem...which allowed me to get as far as I am today unfortunately,and it caused a nice crash to the gems which sucks but was going to happen at some point anyways.


Edited by HuMoR, 09 June 2014 - 16:09.

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#15 Alteration

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 16:12

But anyways, I agree with the fabled being pretty shitty anyway.  Just don't like getting haste from only rare stuff.  To truly diversify stuff, they need to nerf the haste rolls on rare gear, and release gems with haste (so heroics/fabled) would actually be viable to prophets.  

 

And as for ToC, it really needs a tweak on drops now.  Keeping in mind that a dedicated big puller tank + pure healer + 3 warsins or 3 rangers can farm RG over and over at 16 minutes/run.  



#16 HuMoR

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 16:15

But anyways, I agree with the fabled being pretty shitty anyway.  Just don't like getting haste from only rare stuff.  To truly diversify stuff, they need to nerf the haste rolls on rare gear, and release gems with haste (so heroics/fabled) would actually be viable to prophets.  

 

And as for ToC, it really needs a tweak on drops now.  Keeping in mind that a dedicated big puller tank + pure healer + 3 warsins or 3 rangers can farm RG over and over at 16 minutes/run.  

I think a nerf to haste rolls might be good as long as haste gems are implemented to make up for it so you have to pay for better haste. 

As far as toc...you can read above I agree. it needs more rewards more fun mechanics for it to become populated nicely.


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#17 ChelseaBrick

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 18:04

just a little HCS feedback would be ideal.  :)  I think sometimes that I have amazing ideas and I feel like I'm completely ignored.  Maybe a "Chelsea that was the worst thing I've ever read" or "Chelsea, you are brilliant" once in about 50 suggestions would make me satisfied.


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#18 HuMoR

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 18:05

just a little HCS feedback would be ideal.   :)  I think sometimes that I have amazing ideas and I feel like I'm completely ignored.  Maybe a "Chelsea that was the worst thing I've ever read" or "Chelsea, you are brilliant" once in about 50 suggestions would make me satisfied.

only problem with that is,then people assume that means "yes we will put this in the game" or "no we will never put this in the game" which sucks. basically any feedback on stuff like this has to either be so detailed as to what they are aiming for or so bland they can't give any hints.


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#19 l3fty

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 18:42

only problem with that is,then people assume that means "yes we will put this in the game" or "no we will never put this in the game" which sucks. basically any feedback on stuff like this has to either be so detailed as to what they are aiming for or so bland they can't give any hints.

 

Well that's a rock and a hard place :P

 

We're having a meeting about stuff related to this tomorrow, and we'll take the points raised here into consideration of course. Balance is probably the hardest part of making a game like this btw, the rest of it is almost easy in comparison ;) Almost..


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#20 ComradeLewis

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 19:02

There was nothing wrong with TOC to begin with. HC catering to the 1% of the 1% that didn't do their math properly and consider any gem drops outside of dungeons and AOE grinding to be a threat to their own little personal monopoly.

 

Here are some facts:

Gems didn't drop every round. Maybe 1 in 5 if you were lucky, which usually dropped 2-3 gems to split among 5 players.

It took a team of 4-5 max levels, which could easily form a BT team instead at this point that would drop around 5 glims and 1 defined in 30min.

The only advantage of doing TOC over TR was that you didn't need a tank. Therefore you didn't need to stand around town spamming chat all day, like the current state of the game requires. You could also acquire prestige points at a low rate (compared to losing out on remnants and relics).

As stated by others, the BT drop rate for gems blows away the TR drop rate. There would be no comparison to the original TOC drop rate at this point. Did the market "crash" from defined gems flooding the market? Nope. That's because it's all paranoia.

 

I see nothing exploitable about any of what TOC use to be.

 

Nerfing should never cripple anything out of it's purpose. < common sense, right?

 

Even though all of these issues have been posted for several months now, nothing has changed. If HC does decide to listen to one of those responsible for supporting the TOC nerf, that now has deceded that it should be undone, I would be surprised. Maybe if you get the other 2 players that labled the TOC drop rate as an exploit (out of what use to be a 400 player base) to change their mind as well, you can convince HC to waste more of their time undoing what should have never been done to begin with.

 

When it comes to fabled weapons, there is absolutely no point in a prophet acquiring them. I am surprised that any prophet wastes their time helping others get weapons, when the game robs them of their hard work. A boycott should have been in order to correct the issue.


11/29/13 - 4/29/14 | 4/25/15 - 5/25/15



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