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Proposed Loyalty Update III.


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#21 BigGrim

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 16:44

will the loyalty pots existing be staying? - for example lightfoot? - should i stock up on these now?

They'll be staying, although some will be changing, whether buffed or cost decreased.

 

~ Grim



#22 joseff1000

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 17:13

 

Warriors Elixir. Loyalty: 150 > 300
 
Fury Level : 200 Duration : 120m > 300m
Berserk Level : 200 Duration : 120m > 300m
Dark Curse Level : 200 Duration : 120m > 300m
Enchanted Weapon Level : 200 > 800 Duration : 120m > 300m
Wither Level : 200 > 300 Duration : 120m > 300m
Shatter Armor Level : 200 Duration : 120m > 300m

Forgemaster Draft. Loyalty:  200
 
Epic Forge Level :  200 Duration : 120m > 240m
Epic Craft Level : 200 Duration :120m > 240m

 

Rampage Potion. Loyalty:  1000 > 750
 
Animal Magnetism Level : 450 Duration : 120m
Conserve Level : 550 > 650 Duration : 120m
Find Item Level 1250 : Duration : 120m
 
Potion of Divine Knowledge. Loyalty:  500
 
Adept Learner Level : 600 > 700 Duration : 120m
Librarian Level : 600 > 650 Duration : 120m
 
Potion of Precision Strike. Loyalty: 500 > 1000

Arterial Strike Level : 1000 > 1750 Duration : 120m
 

 

NEW

 

Base Booster. Loyalty: 300

Rage: 250 Duration: 240m
Fortify: 500 Duration: 240m

Evade: 500 Duration: 240m

Rockskin:  500 Duration: 240m

Aura of Protection: 500 Duration: 240m

Great Vigor: 500 Duration: 240m

NEW (to replace BM/Distil pot)


Insert Name. Loyalty 200

 

Pride: 300 Duration: 60m

Brewing Master 250 Duration: 60m

I really think a good thing would be to take advantage of duration from time to time. We don't always need a better potion with higher skills... However a worse potion with higher duration could be taken just as well for a fair few.

Lastly the above suggested are not overpowered however will also offer some use to those at all stages of the game.

 

agreed,but not with everything. and i still think they should add stalker 350 in potion of divine knowledge or rampage potion, or just add new potion with stalker lvl 450+ for 250~350 loyalty


Edited by joseff1000, 11 October 2021 - 17:15.


#23 Maehdros

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 17:32

Is there a reason that brew 500 was removed completely?

In the other thread, I suggested a lower level brewmaster maybe 400, or whatever yall think would be appropriate, and maybe to tweak things to add pride in there at a decent level.

Edited by Maehdros, 11 October 2021 - 17:34.


#24 shindrak

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 18:19

Loyalty Update


Got through the thread today and here are the changes I've made. Changes are in bold.

New:

Potion of the Quester. Loyalty: 300

Find Item Level : 1000 Duration : 120m  
Quest Finder Level : 250 Duration : 120m
Quest Hunter Level : 250 Duration : 120m
I suggested before to make it FI1200 otherwise no one will buy it as we have cheap FI1000. 

 

Potion of Precision Strike. Loyalty: 500

Arterial Strike Level : 1000 Duration : 120m
lvl 1200 to make use of it 



Potion of Supreme Global Acceleration. Loyalty 750
Global Booster 1000
make it purchasable with gold like current GB pots
Potion of Devilish Global Acceleration. Loyalty 1500.
Global Booster 2000
make it purchasable with gold like current GB pots
Potion of Godly Global Acceleration. Loyalty 1000.
Global Booster 3000

make it purchasable with gold like current GB pots


Edited by shindrak, 11 October 2021 - 18:20.


#25 Alisa

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 18:42

not sure why loyalty should be offerable or even available to newer players since they are NEW.

 

if we keep pushing "what about the new players" then might as well make a potion that only has value to them only.

 

lTCnXcl.jpg

These 2 potions put them together and increase their level to 150 at 60min and should be free every 24hours or till they reach a certain level.

 

for Annual Service medal i hope we can get some sort of benefit for reaching Diamond. maybe increase in daily AT? 🤞



#26 joseff1000

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 19:24

not sure why loyalty should be offerable or even available to newer players since they are NEW.

 

if we keep pushing "what about the new players" then might as well make a potion that only has value to them only.

 

lTCnXcl.jpg

These 2 potions put them together and increase their level to 150 at 60min and should be free every 24hours or till they reach a certain level.

 

for Annual Service medal i hope we can get some sort of benefit for reaching Diamond. maybe increase in daily AT?

we're from a another gaming era, 2007~2009.

where everything was different,every game had only "hard difficulty"  new players are more casual, HCS are making something viable for new and old players,they're  "rewarding",somehow, to keep this game  interesting to the new players.at least it's what i think about loyalty : they have a reason to login everyday,and that's already a big step for maybe doing something else, DQ,hunt,pvp,bounty...


and, about topic, as i have said in the another topic. we already have Shield wall lvl 500 for 1~2 fsps in AH.


i think  for 300 loyalty, shield wall should be at least lvl 450

Edited by joseff1000, 11 October 2021 - 19:27.


#27 MGH HiddnNinja

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 20:40

Interesting, considering that these changes come from Player Feedback and, as stated in my opening post, the only thing to have really gone down is the loyalty token cost.

 

~ Grim

Most people that commented on the first thread complaining are the ones with little to no allegiance tokens.  They are the ones who don't spend anything on the game and don't want to.  They are the ones who didn't want the people who do donate to the game to get ahead of them and have it easier.  

I'm with Rome on this one, everything has been toned waaayyy down, and you don't even see the complainers posting at all!  I know we aren't reverting to the original post, but I see 2 potions that are worthwhile here.  The Rampage potion and the Doubler 5000 potion.

I wish while you were looking at the original feedback, you looked through who spent what and who has "----" allegiance tokens.  Those are the guys this was supposed to be geared to in my opinion.  The ones who keep the game alive and running!  

Not for the a "loyalty" store for the "new" people, not a "free" store for those who dont want to spend.  A "loyalty" store for those who want to be loyal and see the game thrive! 

I personally have enough loyalty tokens and global pots to thrive 10 more years without running out, but if we did revert back to the original thread, i'd eat through them and be forced to spend more $$$ to get the points necessary! 

 

Going back to work, message me on discord if anyone wants to discuss this.



#28 shindrak

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 21:00

Most people that commented on the first thread complaining are the ones with little to no allegiance tokens.  They are the ones who don't spend anything on the game and don't want to.  They are the ones who didn't want the people who do donate to the game to get ahead of them and have it easier.  

I'm with Rome on this one, everything has been toned waaayyy down, and you don't even see the complainers posting at all!  I know we aren't reverting to the original post, but I see 2 potions that are worthwhile here.  The Rampage potion and the Doubler 5000 potion.

I wish while you were looking at the original feedback, you looked through who spent what and who has "----" allegiance tokens.  Those are the guys this was supposed to be geared to in my opinion.  The ones who keep the game alive and running!  

Not for the a "loyalty" store for the "new" people, not a "free" store for those who dont want to spend.  A "loyalty" store for those who want to be loyal and see the game thrive! 

I personally have enough loyalty tokens and global pots to thrive 10 more years without running out, but if we did revert back to the original thread, i'd eat through them and be forced to spend more $$$ to get the points necessary! 

 

Going back to work, message me on discord if anyone wants to discuss this.

 

Allegiance tokens introduced as "bonus" for buying FSPs , if everything were available in Loyalty shop then less donations will be coming to FS unless another bigger donator potions comes out then the game will be unrealistic with that much overpowered potions !

 

Maybe i don't donate much , but i might do if the game stay balanced without game breaking skills.

 

Many players will agree with me because they prefer a "player's skill reliable game" over "money reliable game"

and HCs knows what is right .

 

The first proposed potions were suggested by a normal player ( You can find the thread somewhere in the forum) and i don't think HCs were thinking to add first proposed potions blindly :)


Edited by shindrak, 11 October 2021 - 22:41.


#29 IVANIDAS

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 21:31

Loyalty Update


Got through the thread today and here are the changes I've made. Changes are in bold.


Change Potion of Intensity to:
Doubler 1500 Loyalty 200


Change Auspice of Ancients to:
Conserve 400 Loyalty 100


Change Scholars Draft to:
Adept Learner 400 Loyalty 250
Librarian 400

Potion of Ultimate Global Acceleration Cost reduced to 1000.


Move Fast Track Draft from Caves and upgrade to buff level 200. Loyalty: 100.


New:

Here are 13 new proposed potions and their loyalty costs.

Warriors Elixir. Loyalty: 150

Fury Level : 200 Duration : 120m
Berserk Level : 200 Duration : 120m
Dark Curse Level : 200 Duration : 120m
Enchanted Weapon Level : 200 Duration : 120m

Considering removing:
Wither Level : 200 Duration : 120m
Shatter Armor Level : 200 Duration : 120m

and replacing with:
Enchanted Armor Level : 200
Keen Edge Level : 200


Potion of the Quester. Loyalty: 300

Find Item Level : 1000 Duration : 120m
Quest Finder Level : 250 Duration : 120m
Quest Hunter Level : 250 Duration : 120m


Potion of Precision Strike. Loyalty: 500

Arterial Strike Level : 1000 Duration : 120m


Forgemaster Draft. Loyalty: 200

Epic Forge Level : 200 Duration : 120m
Epic Craft Level : 200 Duration :120m



Magical Carapace. Loyalty: 300

Defensive Aura Level : 250 Duration : 120m
Shield Wall Level : 250 Duration : 120m


Sorcerous Scales. Loyalty: 300

Layered Armor Level : 250 Duration : 120m
Armor Boost Level : 250 Duration : 120m


Hunting Lord Potion. Loyalty: 1000

Doubler Level : 3000 Duration : 120m


Potion of the Divine Hunter. Loyalty: 2000

Doubler Level : 5000 Duration : 120m


Potion of Divine Knowledge. Loyalty: 500

Adept Learner Level : 600 Duration : 120m
Librarian Level : 600 Duration : 120m


Rampage Potion. Loyalty: 1000

Animal Magnetism Level : 450 Duration : 120m
Conserve Level : 550 Duration : 120m


Alchemist Prized Potion. Removed.

Distil removed.
Brewing Master removed.


Potion of Supreme Global Acceleration. Loyalty 750
Global Booster 1000

Potion of Devilish Global Acceleration. Loyalty 1500.
Global Booster 2000

Potion of Godly Global Acceleration. Loyalty 3000.
Global Booster 3000

I like this but substitute something due to bm and distil being taken away. I know Guild buffer and buff master are wanted including reinforce. With these 3 buffs, the buff market can be alive 24/7 and everyone who sells buffs can make a living. They dont have to be a crazy lvl but maybe lvl 200-300 each. I know we are roughly a month away from the loyalty store update but consider looking through this forum/the past ones and look at similar feedback. We want good changes and not gaming break. Also thanks for the updates  B)  :wub:


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#30 werswet

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 03:53

First proposed Loyalty update new potions should make the game more interesting, most players liked new "overpowered" potions i think. Those  Proposed Loyalty Update III capped potions, because of player feedback are not so useful. 



#31 BigGrim

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 08:44

First proposed Loyalty update new potions should make the game more interesting, most players liked new "overpowered" potions i think. Those  Proposed Loyalty Update III capped potions, because of player feedback are not so useful. 

The first post was harvested from player suggestions and we KNEW there were a lot of excessively powerful potion idea. We were heartened that most feedback recognised this. The feedback, coupled with our knowledge of existing potions and where they are available helped prune everything back for the first feedback pass, which most people seemed reasonably pleased with.

 

This set of feedback tweaks have mostly been reductions in Loyalty costs of the potions.

 

~ Grim



#32 BigGrim

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 09:48

I know Guild buffer and buff master are wanted including reinforce. With these 3 buffs, the buff market can be alive 24/7 and everyone who sells buffs can make a living. They dont have to be a crazy lvl but maybe lvl 200-300 each.

Buff Master 200 is in the Arena and Guild Buffer 200 is from the Emperor Hydra Egg available at Christmas.

Not sure I wanna interfere with those two.

 

~ Grim



#33 EpicPiety

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:50

Buff Master 200 is in the Arena and Guild Buffer 200 is from the Emperor Hydra Egg available at Christmas.

Not sure I wanna interfere with those two.

 

~ Grim

I'm not sure people really use arena tokens on Buff Master. It's available through an egg "Ni Hongs Egg". If you are to compare eggs they are among the least-mid popular. I'd be okay with having a higher version available through loyalty. Sometimes you aren't going to be buffing a ton and just can't justify the loyalty cost but can for the egg cost. I think there is a world where they can peacefully coexist. 



#34 EpicPiety

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 13:06

Reposting this to add reasoning.
 
 
 
This is an underwhelming potion, you can easily obtain a higher version of most of these skills for cheap. With that in mind cranking the duration to 300m will give it a unique use. IE overnight etc...

Warriors Elixir. Loyalty: 150 > 300
 
Fury Level : 200 Duration : 120m > 300m
Berserk Level : 200 Duration : 120m > 300m
Dark Curse Level : 200 Duration : 120m > 300m
Enchanted Weapon Level : 200 > 800 Duration : 120m > 300m
Wither Level : 200 > 300 Duration : 120m > 300m
Shatter Armor Level : 200 Duration : 120m > 300m


Higher levels can be obtained through ladder chest for MASSIVE DURATIONS. I think it is okay to crank the duration on these. 240m is a strategic in the fact that you can pop pride/bm and go to sleep and wake up and still have this active to capitalize on max stamina. This would likely be the main use of this potion.

Forgemaster Draft. Loyalty:  200
 
Epic Forge Level :  200 Duration : 120m > 240m
Epic Craft Level : 200 Duration :120m > 240m

 

 

Adding FI to this potion will help give this potion more identity. Along-side a slight conserve crank this will appeal to a more broad scope of players. The biggest complaint here is that EOC end game players cannot enjoy this update. With the suggested changes this is something they could consistently use in this update without cranking the potion levels higher than existing "Best Available" Potions. I am okay with leaving the token cost at 1k.

 

Rampage Potion. Loyalty:  1000
 
Animal Magnetism Level : 450 Duration : 120m
Conserve Level : 550 > 650 Duration : 120m
Find Item Level 1250 : Duration : 120m
 
Increasing the levels will not hurt much of the "Epic Hunting Potion" Market. Xmas boxes are the cheap go to for all things hunting, you can pick these up from anywhere for 60-100 FSP for AL/Lib/Con 750. This will be a treat to mid game players that even some earlier game players can enjoy if they stick with dailies. 
 
Potion of Divine Knowledge. Loyalty:  500 > 750
 
Adept Learner Level : 600 > 700 Duration : 120m
Librarian Level : 600 > 650 Duration : 120m
 
AS 1000 will have no use, mineaswell make another potion if it will remain at 1000. AS 1750 will allow for alternative hunting method if you want to put in the work. HUGE +1, knowledge and hard work should payoff with higher potential yield.
 
Potion of Precision Strike. Loyalty: 500 > 1000

Arterial Strike Level : 1000 > 1750 Duration : 120m
 

 

As far as PvP goes it's nice to have a potion to complement LUP. Most PvPer's have a nice blend of LUP opposed to 100% damage.

 

NEW

 

Base Booster. Loyalty: 300

Rage: 250 Duration: 240m
Fortify: 500 Duration: 240m

Evade: 500 Duration: 240m

Rockskin:  500 Duration: 240m

Aura of Protection: 500 Duration: 240m

Great Vigor: 500 Duration: 240m

 

Potion to replace BM500, unique potion that offers "Best Available" Pride. Composing has a ton of things, I don't think many people will mind adding Pride 300 to Loyalty.


NEW (to replace BM/Distil pot)


Insert Name. Loyalty 200

 

Pride: 300 Duration: 60m

Brewing Master 250 Duration: 60m



#35 BigGrim

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 17:01

Reposting this to add reasoning.

Helpful. :)
 
 

This is an underwhelming potion, you can easily obtain a higher version of most of these skills for cheap. With that in mind cranking the duration to 300m will give it a unique use. IE overnight etc...

Warriors Elixir. Loyalty: 150 > 300

What did you think of the other proposal? The swapped out buffs?

 

Higher levels can be obtained through ladder chest for MASSIVE DURATIONS. I think it is okay to crank the duration on these. 240m is a strategic in the fact that you can pop pride/bm and go to sleep and wake up and still have this active to capitalize on max stamina. This would likely be the main use of this potion.

Forgemaster Draft. Loyalty:  200
 
Epic Forge Level :  200 Duration : 120m > 240m
Epic Craft Level : 200 Duration :120m > 240m

Can consider.
 
 

Adding FI to this potion will help give this potion more identity. Along-side a slight conserve crank this will appeal to a more broad scope of players. The biggest complaint here is that EOC end game players cannot enjoy this update. With the suggested changes this is something they could consistently use in this update without cranking the potion levels higher than existing "Best Available" Potions. I am okay with leaving the token cost at 1k.

Rampage Potion. Loyalty:  1000

Animal Magnetism Level : 450 Duration : 120m
Conserve Level : 550 > 650 Duration : 120m
Find Item Level 1250 : Duration : 120m

I'll consider Find Item. Not entirely sold on Conserve needing the minor crank though.

 

Increasing the levels will not hurt much of the "Epic Hunting Potion" Market. Xmas boxes are the cheap go to for all things hunting, you can pick these up from anywhere for 60-100 FSP for AL/Lib/Con 750. This will be a treat to mid game players that even some earlier game players can enjoy if they stick with dailies. 
 

Potion of Divine Knowledge. Loyalty:  500 > 750
 
Adept Learner Level : 600 > 700 Duration : 120m
Librarian Level : 600 > 650 Duration : 120m

This encroachs on the Easter Global, which is successful due to being a once a year event. Don't want to harm that.

 

AS 1000 will have no use, mineaswell make another potion if it will remain at 1000. AS 1750 will allow for alternative hunting method if you want to put in the work. HUGE +1, knowledge and hard work should payoff with higher potential yield.
 
Potion of Precision Strike. Loyalty: 500 > 1000

Arterial Strike Level : 1000 > 1750 Duration : 120m

The highest Arterial Strike is 300, the Life Blood Cave Potion, yes?  Why do we need the next one to be 5/6 times as powerful?

 

As far as PvP goes it's nice to have a potion to complement LUP. Most PvPer's have a nice blend of LUP opposed to 100% damage.
 
NEW
 
Base Booster. Loyalty: 300

Rage: 250 Duration: 240m
Fortify: 500 Duration: 240m
Evade: 500 Duration: 240m
Rockskin:  500 Duration: 240m
Aura of Protection: 500 Duration: 240m
Great Vigor: 500 Duration: 240m

Will check off against existing buff/potion levels in the morning and have a think then. Seems okay though.
 
 

Potion to replace BM500, unique potion that offers "Best Available" Pride. Composing has a ton of things, I don't think many people will mind adding Pride 300 to Loyalty.

NEW [/size](to replace BM/Distil pot)[/size]

Insert Name. Loyalty 200
 
Pride: 300 Duration: 60m
Brewing Master 250 Duration: 60m

Pride is Composing Only. That shall not be changing. Sorry.

~ Grim



#36 tomjiggy67

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 18:43

@BG Concerning swapping the 2, I'd also consider dropping Enchant Weapon 200 since it's so cheap in the AH. You'd still have a solid base of buffs in that potion to benefit  lower level players or even higher level players farming frags or a Global. And the duration increases proposed by EP is a great idea.

 

As far as getting close to or encroaching on the Easter baskets, Overkill 1000 is the primary difference and as long as that isn't compromised I don't see an issue with EP's suggestion.

 

Pride should remain Composing only, and that being said increasing it's level might be a future tweak to Composing.


Edited by tomjiggy67, 12 October 2021 - 18:50.


#37 IVANIDAS

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 21:09

Buff Master 200 is in the Arena and Guild Buffer 200 is from the Emperor Hydra Egg available at Christmas.

Not sure I wanna interfere with those two.

 

~ Grim

It wont interfere but its an option. 


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#38 Toreth

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 22:21

The highest Arterial Strike is 300, the Life Blood Cave Potion, yes? Why do we need the next one to be 5/6 times as powerful?

I know this was aimed at EP, however, I’ve taken the liberty to calculate and test the effects of Arterial Strike in its current iterations at level 345 as well as projected levels of 1150 (and higher). For the testing and calculations, the effectiveness of AS with optimal XP gain buffs was compared against the widely accepted 1-Hit method coupled with Overkill with the same optimal XP gain buffs (Conserve Chance activation was also factored into the numbers provided as well), and when broken down to what matters TO THE INDIVIDUAL PLAYER, we have to look at the gross XP Gained Per Stamina.

All Numbers Provided are Simulated over 1000 Creatures Killed with that creature being the Ornack Winged Arachnid (Champion) at level 4946, and for AS, I looked at every combination between 2 Round Combats and 20 Round Combats to see where any benefit would be in trying to maximize a potential “Arterial Strike” hunt.

- For the 1-Hit Method + Overkill
1,949,250 XP Per Stam

- For AS 345 at 2 Rounds of Combat
566,084 XP per Stam

- For AS 345 at 10 Rounds of Combat
214,473 XP per Stam

- For AS 345 at 20 Rounds of Combat
170,522 XP per Stam

Now, let’s take a look at the proposed AS 1150

- AS 1150 at 2 Rounds of Combat
713,749 XP per Stam

- AS 1150 at 10 Rounds of Combat
480,271 XP per Stam

- AS 1150 at 20 Rounds of Combat
451,086 XP per Stam

It’s widely known that it is more stam efficient for your hunt to die to a creature than to 2-Hit due to doubler not taking effect on deaths, so Arterial Strike is already a fairly “dead” buff, and in looking at what’s available and at the proposed, that likely would remain the same.

What would be a sufficient Arterial Strike Buff level to make it break-even with efficiency or “useful?”

- AS 5750 at 2 Rounds of Combat
1,557,550 XP per Stam

Yes, even an Arterial Strike 5000 Potion being introduced wouldn’t change anything as far as stamina to XP gain efficiency for 2-hitting.

- AS 5750 at 10 Rounds of Combat
1,999,112 XP per Stam

At this level, and at 10 Rounds of combat, after factoring in all the variables, you’re still only barely above the level of efficiency provided by the 1-Hit + Overkill method. And what about 20 rounds at a buff level this high?

- AS 5750 at 20 Rounds of Combat
2,054,308 XP per Stam

And the benefit here at 20 Rounds still isn’t large enough to warrant wanting to plan out something as intricate as an “Arterial Strike Hunt.” You receive 95% of the XP per Stam with the 1-Hit + Overkill method at AS 5750.

- AS 11,500 at 2 Rounds of Combat
2,612,301 XP per Stam

- AS 11,500 at 10 Rounds of Combat
3,897,665 XP per Stam

-AS 11,500 at 20 Rounds of Combat
4,058,335 XP per Stam

Now we have the useful number, but it takes a buff level at 11.5k.

Edited by Toreth, 13 October 2021 - 22:40.


#39 Windbattle

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 20:40

Is there a reason that brew 500 was removed completely?

In the other thread, I suggested a lower level brewmaster maybe 400, or whatever yall think would be appropriate, and maybe to tweak things to add pride in there at a decent level.

 

I think like 20-30 people were like BM is bad at high level don't add. So based on that, it was removed. I'd like to see BM 300 or 400 myself though. 



#40 Windbattle

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 20:47

The first post was harvested from player suggestions and we KNEW there were a lot of excessively powerful potion idea. We were heartened that most feedback recognised this. The feedback, coupled with our knowledge of existing potions and where they are available helped prune everything back for the first feedback pass, which most people seemed reasonably pleased with.

 

This set of feedback tweaks have mostly been reductions in Loyalty costs of the potions.

 

~ Grim

 

In-game polls would also get you more information as well BG. Some people who play aren't going to bother coming to the forums. 




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