I said the same thing when they started Jedi.

Unfortunately many players just thought 'easy frags' and didn't even bother contemplating what the larger affects would be while they were trying to shout me down.

There is an opt out. I've done it.

I'm sorry Pythia, I figured it'd be obvious I was joking.

 

The only way to 'opt out' is to be in an ineligible guild.

The way I see it, being in a guild provides many MANY bonuses to a player. Free gear, buffs, stat enhancements, pleasurable company, advice, cheese, cookies and all the salt and vinegar crisps you can eat.

 

The potential of being attacked in a GvG is the counterbalance to all of these tremendous upsides and must remain.

You missed my point entirely.

 

I'm saying it doesn't matter if GvG benefits your guild or not, it is merely another part of guild life. You can't just cherry pick all the bits you want, only keep the parts that are 'beneficial' to you. You have to take the ups and the downs together.

 

As I said, there already is an opt out, unfortunately that opt out also opts you out of many of those other benefits I just mentioned.

No my point is even simpler than how you just tried to belittle it.

 

If you want all of the bonuses from a guild, you HAVE to put up with the downsides that come with it.

 

 

 

(far too many people in this game want all bonuses, benefits and positives without any downsides whatsoever, they feel like a balancing downside is actually punishment. Ridiculous)

The answer to rescuing the game from oblivion, isn't to make the game all benefits with no downsides.

The answer also involves ensuring that the downsides don't dominate over the benefits---for every player the game wishes to keep involved.

 

The benefits of being in a guild are absolutely enormous. Being susceptible to GvG (if you want access to these benefits) is not 'dominating' over the benefits, it is in fact the exact opposite.

 

However I do see your point with regards to brand new guilds, trying to establish themselves.

A simpler way to avoid them being demolished before they know what is going on, is to dramatically raise the guild level guilds have to reach to become eligible for GvG.

Positives to being in a guild.

 

• Free Gear (via guild tagged gear, which means you'll likely never need to own anything yourself)
• Free Buffs (another normally expensive outlay when doing FS activities)
• Free Advice (doesn't really require explanation)
• Stat increasing structures (Not free but they're cheap for large guilds and are unavailable to a guildless player and very expensive to maintain for a super small guild)
• Stat/Gain increasing Relics + The team spirit of defending them alongside your guild mates.
• Various guild specific benefits. Cheap epics, virtual pvp immunity, titan hunting expertise etc etc
• Potential access to guild composing potions. (the only way to actually trade composing potions)

 

Negatives to being in a guild.

• Can be attacked in guild versus guild activity

Guild tax, sure I can see how that could be seen as a negative.

I didn't add it because it also acts as a way of a player getting those cheap stat/gain enhancing structures with gold that is literally unavailable for pvp players to steal

 

If buffing your guildmates is a negative, then you're doing it wrong.

Providing free composed pots is optional. If you consider that a negative, don't do it.

 

(It's kind of sad you see these things as negatives though to be fair. Are you sure you want to be in a guild? O.o)

Buffing your guildmates isn't 'mandatory', it is of course commonly accepted practice.

Not everyone with small amounts of stam will expect super buffs, not everyone with those buffs will want to cast them and not everyone is solely focused on being efficient.

 

That being said, the guild tax ensures that the guild itself gets back a certain amount, which then goes back into paying for upkeeps...

 

An optional positive isn't equal to an optional negative. Since noone in their right mind is going to accept a negative if they don't have to, they must be associated with a positive.

You can't use outliers to prove a point however.

 

The large majority of players get much more OUT of guilds then they put IN.

 

Hell guilds are the primary reason we have an economy problem within FS.

Guilds mean that players generally don't need to provide anything for themselves.

Not having to pay for personal gear, personal buffs and not having to pay to upgrade that gear has created a surplus of personal wealth which inflates the MP. Not to mention the affect it's had on the value of most of the items in the game.

 

 

I'm not sure I really understand how you can argue against the vast benefits guilds provide however. I've spent a lot of time in global chat. When newbies show up and ask for advice, I've seen you personally reply many times. You ALWAYS advise players to get in a guild for free gear and buffs. You literally TELL everyone what I've been saying here... Seems like your just arguing for the sake of it right now.

Oh I was so disappointed when I saw this thread title, I thought it was going to be a moan. Then I read it and was pleasantly surprised.

 

I agree, for those that research the creatures beforehand, it should probably be evident in the guides that these creatures are immune to all weapons except a specific one.

The Hours/Minutes/Seconds on the composing page countdown when an event is active has already been asked for, (by me) Grim has already talked to Zorg about it.

 

It's on the magic 'to-do' list.

Guilds are owned by its members no? Guilds are bound to fail if one person solely "owns" everything. So what if it's passed along the grapevine. If 80% of it's members vote yes it's meant to be.

 
Actually no Epic, guilds are owned by their founder. Always have been.
Regardless of what 'sharing' protocols have been put in place during the life of a guild, at the end of the day it remains within the guild founders power (and the guild founder only) to kick everyone from a guild and burn the guild to the ground.
 
When you consider this important fact, the 'mutiny' system is an odd one. You are essentially transferring ownership to someone who didn't create the guild. Which I find wrong, the only way guild ownership should be able to be transferred is by the guild founder himself/herself 'giving' ownership to another.
 
Perhaps HCS should institute a 'Will' system.
(where the beneficiary cannot themselves create a new 'will' within a year of inheriting the guild)

I never said 'everyone'.

Bang your heads against the walls guys, it never going to happen unfortunately.

Giving up saves a lot of headaches and pointless arguments.

Players have been the cause of many positive changes to the game over the years. These changes were a result of Hoof actually listening to the arguments. His absence lately is the only cause that would make these arguments futile. I would respect if he said, we're leaving it. But he hasn't advanced the game this far without listening to the players. That's all we can ask!

Well more power to you if you want to waste your time asking them to nerf the OP potions.
I've been doing it for years, yet they still keep rolling in higher and higher.

22 new rare items would be sweet, so sweet.

Be nice to get stuff to break down when I hunt.
Seems like that next fragmenter medal is a million miles away at the moment.

At the end of the day there are only two outcomes that matter in the confrontation.

 

A win and a loss.

 

Win = You defeat your enemy and the victory is yours.

Loss = Every other eventuality.

 

It really isn't that difficult to comprehend.

A deflected attack = The fight never happened. (It was deflected)

I'm fairly sure deflected attacks don't count as losses since it would add too much uncertainty to the GvG system. Everyone would be purely at the mercy of the RNG.

 

This doesn't apply to the current discussion however.

*couldn't*

Actually, what you seem to be failing to see is that an unresolved conflict is not a win. So call it a tie. That isn't a win. You have to win to get credit for a win.  A loss or a tie do not count. That's pretty self explanatory.

 

Highlighted the important parts.

BigGrim has already pointed out earlier that winning is the important part.

(in the GvG battle, not this endless forum debate)

If you don't achieve a win then the game classes it as a fail.

 

It really couldn't be more simple. In PvP and GvG the attacker already has an overwhelming advantage, if that attacker then fails to make the best of that advantage and doesn't take down their prey, they shouldn't be able to call, "No fair, do-over." Which is essentially what this thread is asking for.

 

There are two reasons this thread has dragged on as long as it has.

 

#1 Sadly the forums have become a place were people care more about getting 'forum points' by 'winning' forum argument. Often times by any means necessary.

 

#2 Even more sadly some people have taken it upon themselves to aggravate and attempt to undermine BigGrim at any opportunity. Seeing the recent overturning of forums bans that Grim had done in the past as some kind of victory and justification of this 'witch hunt'.

 

The forums aren't a place for free-thinking individuals to put forward ideas, for discussions about game topics and for feedback. No, these days the forums are far more Machiavellian, if you don't have some kind of secret agenda then you're likely wasting your time here.

And my point is proven...