34 replies to this topic

[EpicPiety]

*big wall*

Defending your relic is defending your relic through whatever means are accessible through the game. Take a relic expect retaliation from any aspect of the game.

[yotwehc]

Defending your relic is defending your relic through whatever means are accessible through the game. Take a relic expect retaliation from any aspect of the game.

And people wonder why stuff gets "watered" down ;-p

[EpicPiety]

And people wonder why stuff gets "watered" down ;-p

Not to be rude but i don't understand.

[Pardoux]

Defending your relic is defending your relic through whatever means are accessible through the game. Take a relic expect retaliation from any aspect of the game.

 

The stance that HCS have taken is that all relics are HCS "owned", not guild owned and thus are free for all to take.

 

I think re-taking a relic that you've lost is more than "adequate" personally - and feel that stomping players in the other guild goes above and beyond - but that's just my opinion

[EpicPiety]

The stance that HCS have taken is that all relics are HCS "owned", not guild owned and thus are free for all to take.

 

I think re-taking a relic that you've lost is more than "adequate" personally - and feel that stomping players in the other guild goes above and beyond - but that's just my opinion

Trust me whenever talking about relic's i make a point never to add any possessive terminology to it lol. One report and BG ought to have me banned from the game. Hey it's the risk they take... Wanna start trouble on a relic expect your relic's or levels taken. Otherwise there is no incentive for them to stop. They can and will last forever otherwise... Trust me i know been there done that.

Edited by EpicPiety, 12 November 2016 - 23:41.

[yotwehc]

Not to be rude but i don't understand.

"whatever means are accessible through the game"

So HCS identifies an aspect that is potentially abusive as it's part of the game rules so they modify it thus "watering" it down and people cry foul. Hiding behind "whatever means" then having that means taken away and complaining about it. Ya know

[Calista]

No one disagrees on the relics being HCS owned. The issue is we don't agree on how far a guild can go to defend what they want. Since HCS has stepped in so many times, I'm not talking to any target regardless. My diplomatic messages have been used against us often enough. But the OP clearly doesn't know the history. Grim makes it sound like it is okay when the history says otherwise.

Some clarification from HCS would be appreciated.

[rowbeth]

I'm playing a computer game, I have no need of anyone's respect nor do feel the need to impress anyone. And I already know how important I am. These have no bearing on why a player plays PvP.

 

PvP is and always will be part of the game. And engaging in it is perfectly within a players right. Continually berating this area of the game is ridiculous.

 

I think you missed the context, Wil. Pythia was not commenting on PVP here, but responding directly to Cal's comments about not understanding other people.

Edited by rowbeth, 13 November 2016 - 04:54.

[Calista]

I think you missed the context, Wil. Pythia was not commenting on PVP here, but responding directly to Cal's comments about not understanding other people.

 

If that's the case, I'll just point at Wil's response as it covers things quite nicely. 

[BadPenny]

In the beginning, relics were designed to be captured. There was no empowerment involved, and for the most part we'd capture an undefended relic and move on.

Soon, the larger guilds started posting defenders on what were considered at the time the "choice relics" Bickering ensued, guild wars were fought, not only with PvP, usually a delevelling party on bounties of opportunity, but with harsh words in the forums. I'm not talking about just one guild against another, it was these 2,3,4 guilds against these other 2,3,4 guilds. Most of these particular guilds are long gone, with only a handful of any of us left, and we are scattered for the most part.

Then relics began to evolve, with the empowerment feature, which was quite expensive in the beginning, and this sparked new rounds of bickering and all out war. It was at this point that the battles of words began to be banned entirely in the forums, and the dominant guilds adopted the "say it with stam" philosophy. Hourly hits were instituted, and those that returned fire either on or off the board lost many levels...

Relic "ownership" became a bone of contention, and eventually all members of said warring guilds were informed that relics were HCS property and that warring over them would no longer be tolerated, and that violators of this policy would be suspended at best, perma banned at worst. This changed the dynamic of relics entirely.

I have participated in a few of these skirmishes over relics in my FS career. I've probably lost an equal amount of levels to that I have gained over the course of this. For the most part it was fun for me, I gained more friends from both sides of the fence than enemies, and I have to say that FS was more vibrant then than it is now.

As to the OP's suggestion that relics should be able to be abandoned, it's kind of valid. But I think an update to meet current needs for specific relic stats might make those undesirables more viable, and lower the propensity for this guild or that to be "selfish" with the few that are good....

Edited by BadPenny, 13 November 2016 - 05:45.

[rowbeth]

Cal, I run the risk of explaining what someone else said to another someone else---and completely misunderstanding it all.

 

But then, isn't that one of the things forums exist for

[Calista]

Grim, can we please have this clarified?

[Calista]

Okay, so let me get this straight.  If another guild takes a relic my guild is holding, and my guild starts to hit the members of the other guild, so long as we are polite when we say it isn't personal, we're just defending a relic,  you and HCS will not get involved? You will not ban players or stop the hitting for no reason other then it involves a relic? Or is hitting someone in an enemy guild 'abusive'?  I want to be sure we have this straight, since I have found myself in this situation more then once, and it has always gone the same way. 

 

Still awaiting clarification from Grim on this. I'm reposting in an attempt to get an answer. 

[mary4ever]

I'm not sure why you think relics and pvp go together.  PvP players have been being suspended, banned, and worse for years when it comes to pvp and relics. You can't tell someone you are hitting them to defend the relic your guild wants to hold. That's abusive!  Or at least it is more then enough to have Grim step in and start deleting everything, suspending everyone, and making his own threats.  That's why there are no more good guild wars. 

unfortunately I have had the same experience

 

 

Okay, so let me get this straight.  If another guild takes a relic my guild is holding, and my guild starts to hit the members of the other guild, so long as we are polite when we say it isn't personal, we're just defending a relic,  you and HCS will not get involved? You will not ban players or stop the hitting for no reason other then it involves a relic? Or is hitting someone in an enemy guild 'abusive'?  I want to be sure we have this straight, since I have found myself in this situation more then once, and it has always gone the same way. 

I seriously doubt you will get a straight answer !!!

 

this is what I know:

OFFICIALLY

relics are owned by HCS & NOT by any guild !!!

relics can be defended by "any means" necessary using in-game mechanics !!!

 

UNOFFICIALLY

any PvP related actions because of relics may lead to a suspension since relics are NOT owned by players / guilds !!! they belong to HCS, that's why many PvPers have learned to go into "radio silence" & only let their stam do the "talking" !!!

 

Terms of Use: https://www.huntedcow.com/home/terms

I highlighted the important thing

EVERYTHING in the game is owned by HCS !!! NOT by the players !!!

 

since relics are owned by HCS & any related PvP actions are forbidden then PvP in general (normal PvP, PvP Ladder, BB, ..) should be forbidden too since characters are owned by HCS too !!! => that's why I believe it is UNOFFICIAL !!!

 

because IF HCS made it OFFICIAL that any PvP related actions because of relics are forbidden (since relics are owned by HCS, not by the players) then they would have to forbid PvP in general too (since characters are owned by HCS, not by the players) !!!

[tomjiggy67]

 OK, I started a forum on what I thought of as improving Relic worth, but I think I might have something for this as well. I came into FS back in 2008 and I must have missed the "Relic Wars". I was really just into leveling and resource farming back then. I left FS when I came back to the states, and returned to FS in 2015. Since my return, my stance on PvP has changed a few times, and I am kind of into it now.

  I kind of understand the HC stance on "No Relic related PvP" because it CAN become personal and usually does when your guild leadership gives the order to attack another guild in defense of a relic they wish to keep. Being a lower level player, in particular, would suck being hit constantly and really unable to give any of that pain back. But, honestly speaking, PvP is an integral part of the game, and for the moderators to step in without coming up with an alternative(like a modified GvG approach)to Relic defense is unfortunately similar to a child being scolded and punished by a parent without any explanation of what they did wrong or why it was wrong. The statement "Relics are owned by HC, not by any guild or player" is a true statement, but it only establishes true ownership. They were placed in the game to benefit the guilds that captured them, and are supposed to be fought over. 

  My idea of a GvG approach to Relic defense is simple. When defending a relic, players do not lose xp or gold. Like GvG, though, gear is susceptible to damage. My guild has designated GvG players who specifically participate in GvG and have gear set ups for this, but anyone can be hit by an opposing player. The defending guild is notified that another guild is attempting to capture a specific relic. To keep it on an even playing field, players can participate in the capture of a guild ONLY if there is an opposing player within range of their level, and relic defense would be determined in the same sense. This gives lower level guild an opportunity to take relics with lower level players. In other words, if a guild wants to capture a relic guarded by a level 3000+ player, they have to form a group and the highest level player in their group would fight against an equal level player within the defending guild. And so on, until all the players in the attacking guild are evenly matched up with a player in the defending guild. The relic is captured based on how many wins/losses by each group. And give guilds 48 hours(or maybe 72?)to respond to relic defense.

  I still think that relics have become weak and need to be nerf'd to make them worth fighting for. Empowering them doesn't really make them all that much better than before they were empowered.