Let me start by saying that yes, I used to PvP a LOT, and yes I used to run a mercenary hit squad. OK, that's out of the way....
A few days ago, one of the Warrior Kings PvP attacked one of our guild members while she was hunting. His attack failed, but drew a bounty none-the-less. 2 of our guild, then deleveled the attacker for 5. This is not unusual, and from my experience with the hit squad "measured responses" (ie taking less than the nr of levels one could take), don't drive home a message at all; but rather provoke further retaliation as the measured response is apparently seen as a weakness.
Well, seems that Warrior Kings feels that the taking of 5 was excessive, and they initiated random 100 stam attacks from various of theirs against multiple members of ours.
I logged on, and found that Anaiis had hit me twice:
at 01:39 and again at 03:26
http://img33.imagesh...?image=wk1j.jpg
At 03:47, I asked Anaiis why I was being hit:
http://img18.imagesh...ge=sentlog1.jpg
at 03:48 (seen in the image above) she responded.
This began an exchange, and at 04:01 (25 minutes before being eligible to hit me again) Anaiis said she "hoped to see me again soon". I took that as a threat of an impending attack, and placed a bounty at 04:07. I also mass messaged my guild members to NOT accept the bounty. I made that request, because of a "cease fire" which was being worked out.
http://img107.images...p?image=wk2.jpg
http://img194.images...p?image=wk3.jpg
Apparently, Stangvalle decided that my placing of the bounty was a violation of the cease fire and things eroded VERY quickly from that point on.
My message to Anaiis at 04:00 as seen from my sent loh below, has never been challenged and in fact has been admitted to BY WK.
http://img18.imagesh...ge=sentlog2.jpg
So to summarize,
One of theirs hits you...WK seems to believe that retaliation is uncalled for and if it comes, then a Guild War *IS* called for.
My contention is, retaliatory strikes/deleveling risks; are the price of admission to the PvP funpark. You want to dance, every now and then you are gonna have to pay the band. WK it seems, wants to dance for free.
Therefore, I ask that those of you who hunt bounties, be it for medals, fun or any other reason; please ignore the WK bio requests to "respect their wishes and reserve those bounties for FKQ" at LEAST until such time, as WK SHOWS some respect and would thus have respect due them.
edit: why it is not posting the above links AS links....I dont know. Feel free to copy/past and if that doesnt work either, post as much as I'll see if I cant find a way to fix them.
WK and FKQ (3rd try...last 2 showed blank on my screen)
Started by Jharryl2, Jul 19 2009 14:03
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79 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 19 July 2009 - 15:54
In my very humble opinion- if you have the right to decide on what the severity of your response to something will be, so does everyone. You can't have your cake and eat it too, though that would of course be nice.
Deleveling someone for a lost attack, I think, would pretty unanimously be looked on as "harsh." Being treated harshly in kind makes perfect sense to me. If I was handled as though I'd taken a bite out of ya, even though I had not, I would darn well make sure I came around and got my bite.
Deleveling someone for a lost attack, I think, would pretty unanimously be looked on as "harsh." Being treated harshly in kind makes perfect sense to me. If I was handled as though I'd taken a bite out of ya, even though I had not, I would darn well make sure I came around and got my bite.
#3
Posted 19 July 2009 - 16:36
Thank you for seeing things how we saw them Bunnybee.
Honestly, if they felt such a harsh response was necessary for a failed attack, than we have the right to respond to said response accordingly in WK fashion.
If they are unprepared to handle a WK response to their actions on their own, which is what it seems like since they are asking everyone to ignore our requests that our bounties be reserved for FKQ, maybe they should have thought about what our actions would've been before they made their attack or talked with us about it beforehand instead of flying off the handle with an uncalled for deleveling.
But we did have a nice long talk with them yesterday and it seems their way of thinking is completely irrational anyway. One of the delevelers on their side didn't even know why he was deleveling except that one of his guildmates was attacked (didn't know it failed).
But what can you expect from a guild that lost one of FS's top Bounty Hunters by failing to help him in a situation that required their attention.
Maybe this was their way of trying to prevent losing another member. Not a well thought out plan considering they're in a war they're afraid to fight now, but possibly their plan nonetheless.
The damage has been done already, the war is still in affect and we will continue to attack them regardless of who clears our bounties. We, unlike them, do not fear the bounty board are well prepared to fight for what we see as a just cause.
Honestly, if they felt such a harsh response was necessary for a failed attack, than we have the right to respond to said response accordingly in WK fashion.
If they are unprepared to handle a WK response to their actions on their own, which is what it seems like since they are asking everyone to ignore our requests that our bounties be reserved for FKQ, maybe they should have thought about what our actions would've been before they made their attack or talked with us about it beforehand instead of flying off the handle with an uncalled for deleveling.
But we did have a nice long talk with them yesterday and it seems their way of thinking is completely irrational anyway. One of the delevelers on their side didn't even know why he was deleveling except that one of his guildmates was attacked (didn't know it failed).
But what can you expect from a guild that lost one of FS's top Bounty Hunters by failing to help him in a situation that required their attention.
Maybe this was their way of trying to prevent losing another member. Not a well thought out plan considering they're in a war they're afraid to fight now, but possibly their plan nonetheless.
The damage has been done already, the war is still in affect and we will continue to attack them regardless of who clears our bounties. We, unlike them, do not fear the bounty board are well prepared to fight for what we see as a just cause.
#5
Posted 19 July 2009 - 16:49
How do we know it was a 100 stam attack?
WHO, name the player, launches PvP for gold attack, using 10 stam?
Whining? I'm not. I'm simply laying out the facts, which are undisputed.
WK wants the ability to PvP, w/o repercussion. It doesn't work that way. Plain and simple. The delevel wasn't in response to lost gold, lost XP or anything of the nature. It was n response, to an unprovoked attack.
And you fully support WK? What a shock. One "playground bully", standing behind another. THAT, was entirely unpredictable. /sarcasm
afraid of the BB? lmao I lived there for a very long time.
WHO, name the player, launches PvP for gold attack, using 10 stam?
Whining? I'm not. I'm simply laying out the facts, which are undisputed.
WK wants the ability to PvP, w/o repercussion. It doesn't work that way. Plain and simple. The delevel wasn't in response to lost gold, lost XP or anything of the nature. It was n response, to an unprovoked attack.
And you fully support WK? What a shock. One "playground bully", standing behind another. THAT, was entirely unpredictable. /sarcasm
afraid of the BB? lmao I lived there for a very long time.
#6
Posted 19 July 2009 - 16:55
Yesterday one of our guild members lost 5 levels for a pvp hit. We felt as a guild he took the risk and lived with the levels lost. We take every deleveling on a case by case basis. I will be refering the people who took 5 from our member to this forum post. We are not bullies. We feel your guilds actions were uncalled for. I offered a peacefull resolution. Our member who was deleveled gets to hit the people who attacked him on the BB. No other members. Seems those two members who attacked would rather have your whole guild get hit. Oh Well. We will oblige.
#7
Posted 19 July 2009 - 17:04
A peaceful solution?
Recap:
One of oyurs hits, and blows it.
Gets deleveled for doing the hit.
Your "peaceful solution", is for us to throw 2 of ours to the dogs; cause your guy blew it.
Ummmmm...nope. Not gonna happen.
Recap:
One of oyurs hits, and blows it.
Gets deleveled for doing the hit.
Your "peaceful solution", is for us to throw 2 of ours to the dogs; cause your guy blew it.
Ummmmm...nope. Not gonna happen.
#8
Posted 19 July 2009 - 17:07
A peaceful solution?
Recap:
One of oyurs hits, and blows it.
Gets deleveled for doing the hit.
Your "peaceful solution", is for us to throw 2 of ours to the dogs; cause your guy blew it.
Ummmmm...nope. Not gonna happen.
One of theirs never hits though, they blew it. A simple bounty and not a deleveling would have been sufficient enough IMHO, Really 5 levels for a failed attack? No damn wonder many feel the PvP in the game is broken.
I really think the 2 that deleveled the failed attacker is shameless thugs that need a lesson or two. Sorry but Why kick them when they are down? You want to be bullies I think you all deserve to get your teeth kicked in for doing that.
#9
fs_spiralbern
fs_spiralbern
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Posted 19 July 2009 - 17:23
Yesterday one of our guild members lost 5 levels for a pvp hit. We felt as a guild he took the risk and lived with the levels lost. We take every deleveling on a case by case basis. I will be refering the people who took 5 from our member to this forum post. We are not bullies. We feel your guilds actions were uncalled for. I offered a peacefull resolution. Our member who was deleveled gets to hit the people who attacked him on the BB. No other members. Seems those two members who attacked would rather have your whole guild get hit. Oh Well. We will oblige.
I would like to offer my wording on this.
Jharryl you and i have been friends for a very long time but this msg is not to take sides but to confirm what have been said here. Please dont think i am shooting down any friendship but rather to give my info so that a resolution can be obtained.
Firstly Azkasha got hit by a member from WK's as soon as he leveled to 400, this caused him to loose enough for delevelment. We let that hit go and saw it as normal PVP.
Playdd was hit yesterday by a WK member and actually the same member that hit Azkasha, not sure if I can say his name so I wont. She got hit once with a 100stam hit just as she leveled to lvl 310 and thereafter got hit again on the next hour.
With this we decided to retaliate and within a few hours we and some friends took 5 levels from this player.
The retaliation was welcomed by warrior kings and the player concerned have offered
not to hit them again.But to conclude. NO Warrior Kings did NOT threaten or anything of the sort after our punishment and we are still on good terms with them. This Whole scenario you guys are facing might just be a miscomunication of some sort and a stroke of ego by both guilds that can be resolved in other ways.
If not then I wish everyone FUN in it cause sometimes all one needs is some PVP fun in a game too
Please PM me in game if you have any querries.
#10
Posted 19 July 2009 - 17:49
BB is quickly lit up. Us bystanders better stay away I guess. Tensions will be high.
#11
Posted 19 July 2009 - 17:52
Yes how do you know ??
You cant and dont it was an ASSUMPTION the same way you are doing by accusing me of being a bully , i stand up for my allys when CALLED to the difference being they dont normally need to an judging by your VL and the bounty board you are going to find out the hard way soon enough
standing up for allies is one thing; standing up in an unjust fight...is another.
They started it; let them finish it
#12
fs_hookie
fs_hookie
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Posted 19 July 2009 - 20:05
I ask a question here ---> Whilst the mere fact that the original attacker phaled, does it make it okay for them to attack someone in the first place without consequence? The amount of stam doesn't really matter as the intent was for the attacker to take something from the attackee irrespective of whether the outcome was achieved or phaled.
This is a very interesting point, intent... to punish, or to not punish?
Please note that I have no ties with either side so if someone who has (or even not) have an interest in this matter wants to tell me to shut up and do I will just so
This is a very interesting point, intent... to punish, or to not punish?
Please note that I have no ties with either side so if someone who has (or even not) have an interest in this matter wants to tell me to shut up and do I will just so
#13
Posted 19 July 2009 - 20:15
It's an intelligent approach. 
My contention all along has been that we all have the right to decide how to react to something. I think FK&Q has the right to take five for a failed attack. I would go so far as to say that it's obvious they do- they did. That places the ball right back into the court of Warrior Kings however. They now have the right to decide how they will react to THAT.
Practicing restraint, or letting lose with everything you care to, is going to remain in the hands of those involved. Friends will take sides, or remain neutral. All perfectly well within the rights of those people.
I'm not sure there is a cut and dried right and wrong here. Just differences of opinion, and standing up for them.
My contention all along has been that we all have the right to decide how to react to something. I think FK&Q has the right to take five for a failed attack. I would go so far as to say that it's obvious they do- they did. That places the ball right back into the court of Warrior Kings however. They now have the right to decide how they will react to THAT.
Practicing restraint, or letting lose with everything you care to, is going to remain in the hands of those involved. Friends will take sides, or remain neutral. All perfectly well within the rights of those people.
I'm not sure there is a cut and dried right and wrong here. Just differences of opinion, and standing up for them.
#14
Posted 19 July 2009 - 20:21
It's an intelligent approach.
My contention all along has been that we all have the right to decide how to react to something. I think FK&Q has the right to take five for a failed attack. I would go so far as to say that it's obvious they do- they did. That places the ball right back into the court of Warrior Kings however. They now have the right to decide how they will react to THAT.
Practicing restraint, or letting lose with everything you care to, is going to remain in the hands of those involved. Friends will take sides, or remain neutral. All perfectly well within the rights of those people.
I'm not sure there is a cut and dried right and wrong here. Just differences of opinion, and standing up for them.
and that Bunny, is probably the most intelligent response I have seen yet in this matter.
#15
Posted 19 July 2009 - 20:21
4 pages of Warrior Kings on the BB right now. You'll be saying wow every time!
#16
Posted 19 July 2009 - 20:25
I ask a question here ---> Whilst the mere fact that the original attacker phaled, does it make it okay for them to attack someone in the first place without consequence? The amount of stam doesn't really matter as the intent was for the attacker to take something from the attackee irrespective of whether the outcome was achieved or phaled.
This is a very interesting point, intent... to punish, or to not punish?
Please note that I have no ties with either side so if someone who has (or even not) have an interest in this matter wants to tell me to shut up and do I will just so
FKQ and TWP came VERY close to war over a similar issue not all that long ago. Finally we agreed mutually....we hit one of theirs, or they hit one of ours....the defending guild is free to seek reprisal (BB and take 5) against the singular offender without facing the wrath of the entire guild. This was and is a mutual and standing agreement, which I think has served both guilds well.
#17
fs_mrwright
fs_mrwright
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Posted 19 July 2009 - 22:28
Anyone at anytime has the right to retaliate in any way they choose. But they should also be aware that their retaliations may be met by more retaliation.
If 5 levels is too much to lose for any one attack, then don't attack.
If 5 levels is too much to lose for any one attack, then don't attack.
#18
fs_generica
fs_generica
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Posted 19 July 2009 - 23:36
Anyone at anytime has the right to retaliate in any way they choose. But they should also be aware that their retaliations may be met by more retaliation.
If 5 levels is too much to lose for any one attack, then don't attack.
+1
And the bunny said it beautifully
Everyone has their own standards they choose to play by. I've never understood why anyone who participates in a delevel party thinks that makes them immune from retaliation.
#19
fs_anaiis
fs_anaiis
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Posted 20 July 2009 - 00:03
Jharryl - I clearly said to you that both of our guilds had the same intentions, I could SEE your point of view. It wasn't until you wanted to make it a pi***ing contest that it degraded into what you call a threat. If you push me, I'm going to push back. It's only "logical" afterall. You've tried to intimidate me before, but you don't see me splashing your pms all over the forum looking for sympathy. Which I may add is against the rules - Unwanted attention and all that.
#20
Posted 20 July 2009 - 00:10
If I posted:
"he said...she said...then I said....then she said" I'd be challenges for screenies to verify what I was saying. I know it, you know it and so does anyone reading this.
I didnt start this thread to seek "sympathy". I started it, to lay out the sad tale, and apparently did so with honesty since nothing I have stated has been challenged.
"he said...she said...then I said....then she said" I'd be challenges for screenies to verify what I was saying. I know it, you know it and so does anyone reading this.
I didnt start this thread to seek "sympathy". I started it, to lay out the sad tale, and apparently did so with honesty since nothing I have stated has been challenged.
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