16 replies to this topic

[lester]

I've been seeing many suggestions of anti-botting and some of those are about a npc teleporting you away and you do a little event if you do it correctly you get a prize and teleport back.This hurts people who don't want to do events and just want to skill.

 

The point:

We can make a event that summons a mini-boss at the location of the skiller that has similar stats and level (Since you level up from skilling,you might not be up to date with the armor ,meaning your level 20 but weaker than a  level 15 and your fighting a level 20 mini-boss) I suggest you make it so no one else can attack this mini boss and that its stats change when the victims armor stat change since the mini boss stats are based off of the victims , the victim can exploit this and take of all of his armor off while skilling and when the mini boss arrives with stats of no armor the victim can wield his armor having a big advantage over the boss , or you can just make it so you can't equip/un-equip armor when in combat.

 

The Benefit:

When you successfully kill the mini-boss , either a rock giant from mining, or a big tree from wood cutting, or a big shark from fishing, you would get loot and exp x 5 of the node you were getting that caused the mini-boss to appear.

For example I am catching trout and the total exp from a fishing node is 400 exp and 10 trout, suddenly a big fish mini-boss appears , you kill him you would get 2000 fishing exp and 50 trout (Using bait or some kind of item that increases loot or exp would increase the loot and exp the mini-boss gives.)

In  this example i used Loot/Exp x 5 this number should change depending on how hard HCS makes these bosses to kill.The bosses Loot/Exp should be a lot more than if you were to gather during that time meaning - If I get 400 exp and 10 trout every 10 seconds and it takes me 10 seconds to kill the boss I should be getting 2000 fishing exp and 50 trout <- this number does not increase by how long it takes you to kill the boss but how long it usually  takes to gather the node and how much loot/exp the node gives.

 

 

Long post , but i think its a good idea.Makes skilling something to look forward to.

 

[Irradiated]

My first thought when I saw this was 'absolutely NOT'.  When I'm skilling I don't want to be bothered.  A captcha or challenge question would be bad enough, this is out of the question.

 

But then I had a second thought.  With a few tweaks this could actually be fun and break up the tedium.

1)  Make it a straight two or three levels below the player.

2)  It never attacks first.  It prevents further gathering until dealt with, but the player always initiates combat.  This allows the player to change gear (from pickaxe, eg, to sword), adjust the screen size, pause any movies or put down any books, etc.

3)  Greater reward, as all this takes time beyond the actual fight (see point 2).  Maybe 10x on the node.  Also include a cash incentive.

4)  A player who really does not want to fight can leave the area and return, with perhaps a smaller compensation for time.

5)  The mob should be fairly easy  But just in case, no death penalty.

6)  Guess we can skip this on farming, since that already has disease (though fighting a giant carrot might be interesting).  Now foraging, fighting a banana.  Don't slip up.

 

I have to think on this a bit further, but right now I'm leaning towards a yes vote.

Edited by Irradiated, 03 May 2014 - 04:54.

[lester]

My first thought when I saw this was 'absolutely NOT'.  When I'm skilling I don't want to be bothered.  A captcha or challenge question would be bad enough, this is out of the question.

 

But then I had a second thought.  With a few tweaks this could actually be fun and break up the tedium.

1)  Make it a straight two or three levels below the player.

2)  It never attacks first.  It prevents further gathering until dealt with, but the player always initiates combat.  This allows the player to change gear (from pickaxe, eg, to sword), adjust the screen size, pause any movies or put down any books, etc.

3)  Greater reward, as all this takes time beyond the actual fight (see point 2).  Maybe 10x on the node.  Also include a cash incentive.

4)  A player who really does not want to fight can leave the area and return, with perhaps a smaller compensation for time.

5)  The mob should be fairly easy  But just in case, no death penalty.

6)  Guess we can skip this on farming, since that already has disease (though fighting a giant carrot might be interesting).  Now foraging, fighting a banana.  Don't slip up.

 

I have to think on this a bit further, but right now I'm leaning towards a yes vote.

It will need to attack first if you don't attack it for a limited time, lets say 20 seconds or 15 giving you enough time to finish the node and equip a weapon that suits your class,it will also have to implement some kinda of stat trans-version  ratio because if you are a mage he gets mage dps but he does melee not magic, the mini boss also needs to say lines like "I'm about to slay you, you killed my people" to let people know this guy is about to kill you , and to prevent further complaining of casuals  saying they didn't know.

[Irradiated]

Then I have to vote against this idea.  I might not even notice anything happened for well more then 20 seconds, and it may take a minute or two for preparation.  With the exception of farming, I'm reading or watching a movie while gathering (unless it's just a small amount for dailies).

 

But what's wrong with allowing the player to attack first?  As long as the mob prevents gathering while it's active it should still serve the purpose.

[lester]

 

 

But what's wrong with allowing the player to attack first?  As long as the mob prevents gathering while it's active it should still serve the purpose.

The mob has to be in combat with you in order for you not to gather, never had a mob just look at me and I couldn't gather.Unless HCS wants to rework how combat works with these mini-bosses then sure.But if they want to keep the combat system the same it would have to attack you.

 

I agree with you on that part, its all up to HCS to decide.Some people gather a node and leave to grab a cup of water come back to see themselves dead, that is why I am agreeing.Also it is harder to code a bot if your character dies, rather than coding a bot that has a code that say if so and so boss shows up walk left 10 feet walk back 10 feet and click the node.

 

There is pros and cons to both of those suggestions.Either really make botting impossible while at the cost of player frustrations or remove player frustrations and make it a little harder to bot.

[Irradiated]

Apologies for turning this into a two person discussion, but ...

 

walk left 10 feet walk back 10 feet and click the node.

When I see leave the area, I mean leave aggro range, not a short distance.

 

Also, I see your point about minimizing coding for HCS.  Unfortunately, I don't think there's a way around that.  Same problem with challenge question/captcha.  I wouldn't have a problem with this (as long as it wasn't too often).  But it requires a new mechanism, as the question must be large/in your face/can't be missed and remain on screen for at least a couple of minutes.

[EJK]

Some ideas: 

Maybe you would just need to RIGHT click the i.e. treekin and if you ignore it and start gathering again it instantly stuns you and screams "Get off that [node]!" i.e. "get off that red apple tree!" (note: no combat)

 

And for farming, if you spam click your patch you can do every stage that is needed to farm except plant seeds (and compost scarecrow and crop dust). So please change prune to something you have to right-click (and choose prune) the patch for doing. 

[TakeTwo]

When i first started playing Eldevin, I gathered a lot (still do actually) but would leave all my pots, food etc in the bank in order to have inventory space. With my fishing rod equipped and no potions I'd be a little hesitant to combat a miniboss even if it was 3 levels below me. 

 

What if instead of combat, the task was related to the gathering activity. Ie. a Rock NPC named "Miner Inconvenience" appears and instead of fighting him, you have to prove your worth as a miner and he gives you his blessing after your perform some short tasks. Quest nodes appear and he would ask:

 

him "bring me some rainbow ore"

you "i can do that easily!" and you mine the rainbow node and get 1 ore and it disappears

"good, now bring me some salmon ore"

you "err.. salmon ore?"

him "what kind of miner are you if you've never heard of salmon ore"

you "on my way!" and you mine the quest node that says salmon ore and get 1 ore and it disappears

him "alright lastly i'll need an oar ore or ore oar"

you ".... /facepalm" go mine that node that gives a 1 slot quest oar, made out of ore

him "hmm it seems you are certainly worthy of harvesting here"

 

End Quest. rewards (whatever was stated in original post)

 

 

Edit: Fishing could be catching the letters F, I, S, H in correct order from 4 quest nodes

Foraging: bring me something red and blue. Give him a "old book "this book has been read and blew all the way here from somewhere.

Forestry: make campfires in certain locations

Crystal cutting: Some girl named crystal appears who's lost her scissors inside a crystal node?

 

Farming.. skinning.. something equally quick, easy, comical

Edited by TakeTwo, 14 May 2014 - 01:18.

[lester]

That would take alot more coding than my original idea. You would have to make a new node, make it invisible or visible to other players make it stack etc rather than just make a mob attack you.Maybe even add a mob that stops you from gathering until you talk to it

[xpwaste]

That would take alot more coding than my original idea. 

if the idea is good it's worth doing the coding for [ p.s. it's not you doing the coding ]

[xpwaste]

When i first started playing Eldevin, I gathered a lot (still do actually) but would leave all my pots, food etc in the bank in order to have inventory space. With my fishing rod equipped and no potions I'd be a little hesitant to combat a miniboss even if it was 3 levels below me. 

 

What if instead of combat, the task was related to the gathering activity. Ie. a Rock NPC named "Miner Inconvenience" appears and instead of fighting him, you have to prove your worth as a miner and he gives you his blessing after your perform some short tasks. Quest nodes appear and he would ask:

 

him "bring me some rainbow ore"

you "i can do that easily!" and you mine the rainbow node and get 1 ore and it disappears

"good, now bring me some salmon ore"

you "err.. salmon ore?"

him "what kind of miner are you if you've never heard of salmon ore"

you "on my way!" and you mine the quest node that says salmon ore and get 1 ore and it disappears

him "alright lastly i'll need an oar ore or ore oar"

you ".... /facepalm" go mine that node that gives a 1 slot quest oar, made out of ore

him "hmm it seems you are certainly worthy of harvesting here"

 

End Quest. rewards (whatever was stated in original post)

 

 

Edit: Fishing could be catching the letters F, I, S, H in correct order from 4 quest nodes

Foraging: bring me something red and blue. Give him a "old book "this book has been read and blew all the way here from somewhere.

Forestry: make campfires in certain locations

Crystal cutting: Some girl named crystal appears who's lost her scissors inside a crystal node?

 

Farming.. skinning.. something equally quick, easy, comical

i like this, though only one quest from quest giver should be there which should be complete-able within the time of 2 minutes so that it is not something u get frustrated from.

[Irradiated]

What if instead of combat, the task was related to the gathering activity.

Your point that not everyone carries weapons to gather is very valid.  While not as much fun as the original suggestion, your idea would work.  Though I don't see this as much better then a standard captcha or challenge question.

 

As I consider all the suggestions I've realized that, for me personally, the real issues are visibility of the challenge and  compensation for the interruption. 

 

How would other people feel about a standard challenge question if:

1)  It was in big, bold letters that stayed on screen until answered

2)  Gives a long time (5 minutes perhaps) to answer, during which time you are not interrupted.

3)  After answering, you are given a 5x node (or some type of compensation).

4)  (If going with the 5x node, it should be bound to prevent someone stealing it 'ninja' style.)

 

That would take alot more coding than my original idea.

All the ideas, including yours, involve a good bit of coding.  New mob rules for gathering.  High yield reward nodes.  Given TakeTwo's objection, access to stored gear before and after fight.  All this is new code that must be written and tested.  Overall, teleporting is probably easier, and challenge question even easier.

 

The big advantage to your idea, IMO, if done correctly it can actually make gathering more enjoyable rather then get in the way.

Edited by Irradiated, 15 May 2014 - 11:56.

[EJK]

Many of you don't include what happens if you DON'T do the event. 

[lester]

I do , you are stopped from gathering until you interact.

[RISDMAC]

I think the stopping all gathering might be hard to implement code wise.

How about a debuff to all gathering xp:
Debuff of -25% xp applied for 5 min.
If that debuff expires without player interaction apply a -50% debuff again for 5min.
If debuff runs out once more, debuff of -100% xp applied for 5min.
If that final debuff runs out again auto teleport to jail for dev review...

This way warning text could flash that you are running the debuff each time you try to gather.

The reward then for proving yourself could be a +50% gathering xp for 30min and the event wont be triggered while you have the positive buff.

Not in love with the mob/ quest event based triggers but the idea has some merit to it....

 

How about a "wizard imp" npc is spawned randomly and casts the proposed debuff on you. All you then have to do to "complete the quest" to remove it is talk to him. Coding for something like this would be similar to how the wabbits were spawned from eggs in the holiday event.

 

Just trying to keep it as simple as possible for both the devs and players

Edited by JQuan, 16 May 2014 - 09:44.

[l3fty]

I do kinda like these ideas, as the decent rewards makes the interruption worth while.

 

The creature kill one is probably quite easy for a slightly more complex bot to handle itself though. This is why sites use those increasingly annoying captchas, to stay a step ahead of the scripts which can solve them.

 

I'd go for something like this simply to make gathering more interesting and rewarding, and stick with people reporting bots to us for investigating/jailing etc

[Bryn]

I am all for making gathering more interesting!  One solution to the need to equip better weapons would be for the guardians to occasionally drop higher level gathering tools, say every 5 levels or so.

 

Looking forward to killing some water guardians so I can work on the fish achievement.

 

 

Hmmm... Wondering if there are any enraged rams out there not wanting to be sheared...