325 replies to this topic

[leefylee]

so long as this game is alive and were still donating to keep it going, i just assumed we could make suggestions to better the game play experience..

i didnt realise we had to ask if HCS had a spare staff member... thats not really my concern,its theirs.

[Teuchter]

I gave up on PvP  , really cannot be bothered with it, seems to cause more stress, more animosity than any other topic in FS , and for sure I do not play  virtual games to listen /read about the pet peeves of PvPers,  when I started playing FS PvP was fun , Yes we had wars ,and they could be fun ,But the last war I participated in  the guild founder  tried to hire a Merc to take 5 from me ,after a truce had been declared!!  and never participated in it since ,    it slowly went downhill as new rules made by guilds came about , Smasher medal did not help either , just caused more trouble to a  broken part of the game, bullying and  taking five on the least pretext  caused players to leave , ,,only my thoughts , I certainly do not think PvP bands need to be increased , what is really needed is a whole bunch of new players coming into the game, Wee  

[vastilos]

Personally I agree that the ranges should be expanded. One, it would expand the range for gvg hits. Second, it would allow other PvP players to have more fun with each other (since we are currently limited to only +/- 10 levels). Third, yes it will also increase the range for the pvp players who want to hit for gold. And last, bigger ranges could potentially make the bounty board more active since there are more targets for people to hit (and it could potentially stop the complaints about the bounty board being dead).

 

Just my two cents.

[BadPenny]

When the ranges were first set, no one had yet reached level 200. Years ago, when the ranges were expanded to +/-10 for 200+,  EoC was <1000.... IMHO, the ranges need to be expanded to keep up with the times, plain and simple.  I see this in no way to be unfair.  For me to have 25 targets, albeit the same folks, and for my friend who is lvl 24xx to have a handful at most is horribly unfair to them.  A new expansion for PvP ranges is long overdue.... Do it please, it needs to be done like yesterday.  

[vastilos]

Uh, they really do because the non PvPer's are the ones who will be firmly in the cross hairs here.

 

And what makes you say that? Just say I have some friends who are 50 levels higher than me who I would like to have some pvp fun with, but I can't because he's 50 levels higher than me. Knowing you, your answer is going to be "catch up to their level". But now said player or players have 2-3x the stamina I have and I have no chance to catch up. Increasing ranges would allow us to have a little fun with each other.

Your answer is one-sided since you've made it perfectly clear many times in the past that you dislike pvp.

[BadPenny]

Taz, I've been around for a while, and hourly 100 stam hits are not the norm, they are the exception.  Most of us use PvP for fun, not to intimidate, and certainly not to drive others from the game.  I assume you are speaking of Prestige points here.  Here are the rules about Prestige, directly from the attack page: 

 

PvP Prestige is awarded for victories over other players (excluding PvP Arena and GvG) on attacks you initiate. Note you can only gain PvP Prestige from active players (last login < 7 days), if XP loss was applicable and only once in every 3 day period. PvP Prestige can be used to activate a skill on yourself to gain an additional xp boost!

 

You get 10 points, regardless of stam used.  I do this every 3 days.  I have no malice in my soul, I'm not trying to drive anyone from the game, and I'm willing to pay the price for that handful of gold and tiny bit of XP my target lost.  More often than not, a day's prestige run will lose me a level or 5, depending on the situation and sometimes whether a hunter is working on their smasher medal.  

 

PvP is never boring.  It's one of the few challenges in the game.  But I have plenty of targets to hit.  Those at the highest levels do not, they have to obtain their prestige 1 point at a time from bounty kills.  That is grossly unfair, they should have the same opportunities that I have, don't you think?

[BadPenny]

And what makes you say that? Just say I have some friends who are 50 levels higher than me who I would like to have some pvp fun with, but I can't because he's 50 levels higher than me. Knowing you, your answer is going to be "catch up to their level". But now said player or players have 2-3x the stamina I have and I have no chance to catch up. Increasing ranges would allow us to have a little fun with each other.

Your answer is one-sided since you've made it perfectly clear many times in the past that you dislike pvp.

Sorry, this is 100% untrue, the boss has PvP'd with me, and I heard no complaints..... it's the using of PvP for intimidation that he objects to.  I can understand that, it besmirches PvP and makes it unpalatable for those that don't understand how wonderful it can feel....  PvP used to be vibrant here, I want to see this again, and I think the boss does, too.....

Edited by BadPenny, 16 February 2015 - 20:11.

[vastilos]

Sorry, this is 100% untrue, the boss has PvP'd with me, and I heard no complaints..... it's the using of PvP for intimidation that he objects to.  I can understand that, it besmirches PvP and makes it unpalatable for those that don't understand how wonderful it can feel....  PvP used to be vibrant here, I want to see this again, and I think the boss does, too.....

 

I think Hoof want's to see pvp active again, while BG has been slowly trying to remove it from the game. I seem to remember him saying something about Hoof and another admin were on the same page as he was when it came to removing xp loss from pvp. Then Hoof came back (and took a break from being a daddy) and quickly shot that idea down the hole. Remember, BG is the one handing out random bans for people who pvp, because he has decided on his own accord how many pvp hits are too much, how many are considered harassment, but yet he refuses to edit the rules of the game to clearly state these rules.

And nothing against you, but I would love to see a screen shot of BG hitting/pvp'ing with you, because I don't find it believable.

 

Now using pvp as intimidation is perfectly acceptable, but again BG has it out for certain guilds (I can name all 3 if needed). Here's an example:

Last year one player kept posting every hit players in my guild would do against him on the ladder (which is acceptable due to game mechanics and any pvp hit should carry risk). Now when we returned the favour and he was getting dropped 5 levels for every hit he did (and my guild members were not), he ended up being down 200 something levels after a month. Said player got upset and made a B.S. story to BG about us being multi's.  And BG with out checking anything quickly banned 10 players in my guild and forced them to prove they play where they play from. When they proved it, there was no apology from BG or anytihng.

Edited by vastilos, 16 February 2015 - 20:25.

[sweetlou]

I don't know whether to laugh uncontrollably or just shake my head until I get a migraine.  What a complete lack of understanding of the usage of Prestige Points to a leveler. First under Lou's proposal I'm going to expend a minimum of 4500 stam to get 450 prestige points which max's me out at 10% Prestige for 1 hour. Hunting with a Conserve 500 and an AM 500 I can get about 3.5 complete levels  or about 175,000,000 XP for that amount of stamina.  Why the heck would I waste that to get a 10% buff which gets me nowhere near that during the course of a hunt.  In PvP terms that's like 100 stamming a leveler and then giving him/her 3.5X the gold that you stole. That suggestion is a complete non-starter for levelers.

Who says I'm appealing to someone who plays only a portion of the game(ie someone who only levels)? Hey, I level too. The point of my suggestion is to rid Prestige of collusion and manipulation, which is already rampant. Players should have to EARN Prestige!!

 

The point of Prestige is to reward PvP play since the presumption is that you will lose xp at some point. Prestige is NOT a tool to aid players who do NOT PvP. Trading hits every 3 days without any chance(risk) of being bountied needs to be eliminated. It hurts the integrity of the game. Broadening the attack range, which is the point of this thread, will allow traders and colluders even more impunity by allowing them to trade hits with more players. I believe Prestige should be a part of any discussion with any expansion of the PvP attack range.

[BadPenny]

Boss, level up, I need to make screenies of our battles again... let's not delevel each other this time, though, hmm?

[Mister Doom]

Prestige was meant to be a small bonus to xp for those that also pvp'd.

 

It wasn't meant to be used by levellers as an easily attained buff for every time they levelled.

It's not meant to be traded risk free.

It also wasn't intended to be stockpiled.

 

It was simply meant to give a small boost to help pvp'ers maintain their level while they pvp.

 

It shouldn't be used in any of the ways people are proposing really, be it levellers accruing it for hunts, or pvp'ers wanting to use only portions of their accumulated prestige.

 

Unfortunately in FS land the old adage, "Give and inch and they'll take a mile." is absurdly prevalent.

[Raku]

When the ranges were first set, no one had yet reached level 200. Years ago, when the ranges were expanded to +/-10 for 200+,  EoC was <1000.... IMHO, the ranges need to be expanded to keep up with the times, plain and simple.  I see this in no way to be unfair.  For me to have 25 targets, albeit the same folks, and for my friend who is lvl 24xx to have a handful at most is horribly unfair to them.  A new expansion for PvP ranges is long overdue.... Do it please, it needs to be done like yesterday.  

Where is the fairness for the players that are currently out of reach due to these ranges that don't want to be attacked? Both players decided to level fully aware of this +/-10. Now you want non-pvpers to be able to be attacked by a greater number of pvpers and call it fair. You have 25 targets because you chose to remain the lvl you are. Your friend has less targets because of the choice they made. How is that not fair? Honestly I completely understand the wanting of a broader attack range, but there is no fairness for non-pvpers by doing so. More targets for pvp prestige doesn't change this either. 

 

Who says I'm appealing to someone who plays only a portion of the game(ie someone who only levels)? Hey, I level too. The point of my suggestion is to rid Prestige of collusion and manipulation, which is already rampant. Players should have to EARN Prestige!!

 

The point of Prestige is to reward PvP play since the presumption is that you will lose xp at some point. Prestige is NOT a tool to aid players who do NOT PvP. Trading hits every 3 days without any chance(risk) of being bountied needs to be eliminated. It hurts the integrity of the game. Broadening the attack range, which is the point of this thread, will allow traders and colluders even more impunity by allowing them to trade hits with more players. I believe Prestige should be a part of any discussion with any expansion of the PvP attack range.

I agree with you, it should be earned. I feel separating pvpers and non-pvpers would help in doing so. If you opt in for the sake of pvp prestige then you are at the mercy of the pvpers within range. Can two players opt in and trade prestige hits. Sure but now both would be a the mercy of the other players within range. If you make it a broader range then this would only help those that want to pvp and have fun together, punish those that only want to trade for prestige, and create less criticism and complaints about pvp from those that want nothing to do with it.

[vastilos]

Why is everyone assuming the range increase is to hit those non-pvpers/levelers/what ever. Just say I want to have fun with someone else who pvps, but is 30, 40 or 50 levels higher than me? Am I supposed to ask them to wait for me to catch up to them? And like I said earlier, increased ranges could potentially increase bounty board activity (at least for a little bit).

Edited by vastilos, 16 February 2015 - 21:20.

[Raku]

Why is everyone assuming the range increase is to hit those non-pvpers/levelers/what ever. Just say I want to have fun with someone else who pvps, but is 30, 40 or 50 levels higher than me? Am I supposed to ask them to wait for me to catch up to them? And like I said earlier, increased ranges could potentially increase bounty board activity (at least for a little bit).

I am not assuming by any means that the whole reason is to attack non-pvpers/levelers/whatever. I also don't think anyone would have a problem with you or anyone wanting to have fun with like-minded players regardless of the lvl difference. The problem comes from those wanting to attack non like-minded players for the wrong reasons. Increasing the range makes things easier for this to happen. 

Edited by Raku, 16 February 2015 - 21:36.

[yotwehc]

Why is everyone assuming the range increase is to hit those non-pvpers/levelers/what ever. Just say I want to have fun with someone else who pvps, but is 30, 40 or 50 levels higher than me? Am I supposed to ask them to wait for me to catch up to them? And like I said earlier, increased ranges could potentially increase bounty board activity (at least for a little bit).

How about an opt in? Opt in and you get the expanded range. Opt out and stay at current +/-10

[Rocknoor]

Have edited the post to remove the attacker's name as I was informed this is against Forum rules, wouldn't want to offend sensibilities while I'm getting pounded for a contrary opinion.

 

I have a prime reason for not increasing the range of levels....I've heard of retaliation in the game for disagreeing with PvP'ers on the forum but just thought it was talk, now I know that's not the case.  After not agreeing with some items in the PvP threads this happens..

19:02 16/Feb/2015
[ Ignore ] You were defeated by XXXXXX1972 in combat. [ View Combat ] [ Reply | Trade | ST | Buff ]
XP stolen:4,308,920 Gold lost:206,264 Gold stolen:154,698 Prestige gain:10

20:03 16/Feb/2015
[ Ignore ] You were defeated by XXXXXX1972 in combat. [ View Combat ] [ Reply | Trade | ST | Buff ]
XP stolen:4,630,667 Gold lost:29,489 Gold stolen:22,117

21:28 16/Feb/2015
[ Ignore ] You were attacked by XXXXX1972, but you deflected the attack. [ Reply | Trade | ST | Buff ]

 

Don't ever again try to tell me that PvP isn't about intimidation with this guild because it is.  Luckily XXXXX1972 is the only one in +/-10 levels of me otherwise I'd be getting more "love" taps from this guild.  Well played, way to prove every non PvP'ers beliefs about you that bullies are alive and well in the PvP segment of the game. I know that the goal is to get me to hit back so they can drop me 5, nope not going to happen...but there it is folks PvP at it's finest. Y'all must be so proud.

Edited by Rocknoor, 16 February 2015 - 22:59.

[sweetlou]

It also wasn't intended to be stockpiled.

 

It was simply meant to give a small boost to help pvp'ers maintain their level while they pvp.

 

It shouldn't be used in any of the ways people are proposing really, be it levellers accruing it for hunts, or pvp'ers wanting to use only portions of their accumulated prestige.

Is Prestige a game commodity like gold or stam? In other words doesn't it add value to a character? I think it does! I'm not asking to sell it like stam for buffs, although that would be great for the game. I simply believe it should remain usable on demand by the player who earned it at least on a non-tradeable basis.

 

https://forums.hunte...ge/#entry910293

 

Even you liked the idea! Changed your mind?

 

Please explain why I should have to use Prestige, all or none, since I was the one who accrued it? Why must I waste the extra Prestige that I've EARNED?

 

Also, I don't see a problem with players accruing it for mob hunts. I DO have a problem with players trading Prestige points every 3 days bounty-free to supplement their xp gain! It's disingenuous. The greater the attack range the more often this dishonest act will occur. What is your logic please?

[BadPenny]

Where is the fairness for the players that are currently out of reach due to these ranges that don't want to be attacked? Both players decided to level fully aware of this +/-10. Now you want non-pvpers to be able to be attacked by a greater number of pvpers and call it fair. You have 25 targets because you chose to remain the lvl you are. Your friend has less targets because of the choice they made. How is that not fair? Honestly I completely understand the wanting of a broader attack range, but there is no fairness for non-pvpers by doing so. More targets for pvp prestige doesn't change this either. 

Hey, darling, I level, just like everybody else.  It's slow at times, but not too much so, because for the most part, I've been visiting the mostly the same folks for prestige for some time now.  That PvPer's choose to remain in one level range is a fallacy.  Sure there are some that do, even some that became infamous for that, but they are the exception.  I, for one, am not one of those players and never was one, and the majority of my peers who PvP aren't either... PvP is part of the game, for PvPer and non PvPer alike.  It's an important part.  And who says they want to box with you anyway?  Maybe Player A is level 1510 and Player B is level 1522.  They want to trade licks, to test their buffs or equipment or just to do it for kicks.  As it stands now, they have to either A, participate in a dead ladder system, or B one has to get on the board.  With the PvP range expanded, they can box all day, every hour on the hour.   As for fairness for PvPer's, I have watched PvP get nerfed over and over again over the past 7 years, because we are in the minority.  Don't want to be a prestige target?   PvP protection protects your XP, and as such eliminates you from a prestige hit.  Only your gold can be taken, and if you wisely put that away, your only threat is your enemies, and that's another issue entirely, and should be handled in an entirely different way.  

[Mister Doom]

Is Prestige a game commodity like gold or stam? In other words doesn't it add value to a character? I think it does! I'm not asking to sell it like stam for buffs, although that would be great for the game. I simply believe it should remain usable on demand by the player who earned it at least on a non-tradeable basis.

 

https://forums.hunte...ge/#entry910293

 

Even you liked the idea! Changed your mind?

 

Please explain why I should have to use Prestige, all or none, since I was the one who accrued it? Why must I waste the extra Prestige that I've EARNED?

 

Also, I don't see a problem with players accruing it for mob hunts. I DO have a problem with players trading Prestige points every 3 days bounty-free to supplement their xp gain! It's disingenuous. The greater the attack range the more often this dishonest act will occur. What is your logic please?

 

I did initially agree with the idea, after thinking about it a little more I have changed my mind on the subject.

I believe it falls into the category of HCS giving the player base something and them getting used to it and eventually wanting more and more. If a player amasses a lot of prestige then they have obviously done a lot of pvp, but not a great deal of level regaining. (which is the actual point of prestige) They were well aware of how the system worked.

I believe the more important question is, why should the system be changed to better accommodate players who accrued more than the amount needed for maximum bonus?

 

I see it as just another instance of the 'more more more' mindset that seems to be endemic amongst the FS population these days.

Edited by Mister Doom, 16 February 2015 - 22:28.

[sweetlou]

I agree with you, it should be earned. I feel separating pvpers and non-pvpers would help in doing so. If you opt in for the sake of pvp prestige then you are at the mercy of the pvpers within range. Can two players opt in and trade prestige hits. Sure but now both would be a the mercy of the other players within range. If you make it a broader range then this would only help those that want to pvp and have fun together, punish those that only want to trade for prestige, and create less criticism and complaints about pvp from those that want nothing to do with it.

So we are back to suggesting the opt-in PvP model? Remember you opted-in to PvP when you signed up to play a PvP game. We currently have an opt-out for 200,000 gold/24 hrs. Is that too expensive? There you can play in a vacuum where the only thing you can lose is gold, and you still have bounty power if attacked for gold but you remain free from losing xp. Why does it seem we are going backwards?