39 replies to this topic

[Leos3000]

So I was thinking back to a few years ago when PVP and GVG used to be more popular and more accepted by levelers and 1 thing that has changed is the gear people where when offline.

 

People used to have some degree of comfort when they went offline, as everyone used to have their own offline sets usually just a bunch of defensive items or high armor items... Than 2 things happened

 

1st. Epics were introduced while at the beginning these items were actually useful for offline defense the 

 

2nd issue was introduced.. buffs that were dependend on sets and having items that are parts of sets (KE, SH, COA, COD, Shield Wall, and Armor boost) These buffs killed the usefulness of EPICS (what is supposed to be the best items in the game) for offline defense

 

Due to the 2nd issue levelers were forced to make a decision... either wear a strong offline set up in the off chance they were attacked in GVG/PVP or wear Stam gain gear (Epics)

 

Most levelers have choosen the 2nd option to wear stam gain items (Epics) which used to be great for all circumstances, but now because of all the buffs that benefit having items of a set they are considered "EASY" targets.

 

This creates animosity between the 2 sides of the attack, as 1 side feels they are being "picked on" because they choose to wear EPICS (which are also the most expensive items in the game) and in the current game mechanics makes them easy to defeat in PVP/GVG.

 

I think this is 1 of the biggest reasons a lot of people/guilds gave up on GVG as it makes it nearly impossible to defend incoming attacks even when you buff up your mates.

 

I wanted to give some perspective before I got to my Suggestion/Solution

 

It is quite simple... Turn EPICS into 1 item sets 

 

There is no need to give them set bonuses or change the stat distribution. 

1 thing that made me think this was the original idea was the fact that all epics have "Elite Hunter" as an attribute which before epics was only give in Set Bonuses.

 

This 1 change would make "Levelers" feel safer in GVG/PVP while offline because all the major buffs would actually aide in their defense.

 

The argument of OVERPOWERMENT is pretty much been voided by all the recent gear and buff levels/additions.

 

Not to mention in order to wear 9 epics your gear has to Span 100's if not 1000's of levels (Currently with all the top  EPICS there is a 1300 level gap between the highest and lowest level item)

 

Current PVP gear can wear any combination of gear ranging from a few 100 levels to all being the same level as the player. Allowing for higher stats per item vs Epics.

 

Lets get back to an environment where people can feel SAFER in their offline gear. Have less animosity between sides and more overall game activity.

[Pardoux]

So, you want to be able to go offline, with attack/defensive buffs wearing 9 x 1 piece sets ?

 

Whilst I'd love to feel more "secure" in my epics, I think that this idea is, despite your protestation to the contrary, WAY overpowered.

 

I've just run some numbers on my offline setup ...

 

With just a few of those buffs ("only" at Level 175 too, mind), my stats went from ..

4691 / 6366 / 6930 / 13259

 

to

 

13135 / 12374 / 7536 / 25774

 

and with composing buffs (I've used Melissa's as an example of the highest level available - dunno if anyone else is higher?), those numbers go  to

 

23000 / 15500 / 8000 / 45000 (rounded up)

 

1. Yes, folk will feel safer in their offline epics

 

2. Not quite sure how boosting offline epic stats is going to reduce animosity ? - unless you just mean that we, who wear them, feel less "picked on" ? (your words, not mine)

 

BG has repeatedly said that there will be no epic sets (not sure if anyone has mentioned ONE piece sets before however) and I think he's right to stick to that.

 

I wear my epics purely and simply to regain stamina more quickly. The stats associated with those items are secondary.

Edited by Pardoux, 04 March 2015 - 01:49.

[yotwehc]

While I appreciate the thoughts shared by the OP, it does not address the root of the issue (Any half way decent PVP player could beat any offline set if the target has no buffs). For completely selfish reasons, I would love the idea to make my epic set even more epic but anyone using 9 epics should easily be able to afford protection. I would state what some of the real root issues are however this would just devolve into another pvp-leveler rabbit hole flamefest.

[3JS]

I've proposed things in the past like crystalline epics that worked with certain buffs. It was shot down and locked pretty quickly. I think a 9 set kit would be pretty cool, honestly.

 

Let's face it, the hardest thing to do in this game is to defend an offline attack. You just can not stay buffed 24 hours a day, unless you're one of those players who can write shifty codes, but we know those players don't exist.....

 

If you can pay 3K dots for an offline set, then you should be able to sleep a little sounder at night knowing that you're at least a little harder to beat.

 

It's never gonna happen, but I wouldn't mind if it ever did.

[BadPenny]

You guys don't knock the epics.... they all have amazing first strike, and I have lost to epics many many times during a prestige run.... or trying to steal gold from somebody in nothing but epics.  It happens more than you think.......

[Dulcharn]

yeah, great idea, leos

[Maehdros]

So, you want to be able to go offline, with attack/defensive buffs wearing 9 x 1 piece sets ?
 
Whilst I'd love to feel more "secure" in my epics, I think that this idea is, despite your protestation to the contrary, WAY overpowered.
 
I've just run some numbers on my offline setup ...
 
With just a few of those buffs ("only" at Level 175 too, mind), my stats went from ..
4691 / 6366 / 6930 / 13259
 
to
 
13135 / 12374 / 7536 / 25774
 
and with composing buffs (I've used Melissa's as an example of the highest level available - dunno if anyone else is higher?), those numbers go  to
 
23000 / 15500 / 8000 / 45000 (rounded up)
 
1. Yes, folk will feel safer in their offline epics
 
2. Not quite sure how boosting offline epic stats is going to reduce animosity ? - unless you just mean that we, who wear them, feel less "picked on" ? (your words, not mine)
 
BG has repeatedly said that there will be no epic sets (not sure if anyone has mentioned ONE piece sets before however) and I think he's right to stick to that.
 
I wear my epics purely and simply to regain stamina more quickly. The stats associated with those items are secondary.

+1

[Leos3000]

So, you want to be able to go offline, with attack/defensive buffs wearing 9 x 1 piece sets ?
 
Whilst I'd love to feel more "secure" in my epics, I think that this idea is, despite your protestation to the contrary, WAY overpowered.
 
I've just run some numbers on my offline setup ...
 
With just a few of those buffs ("only" at Level 175 too, mind), my stats went from ..
4691 / 6366 / 6930 / 13259
 
to
 
13135 / 12374 / 7536 / 25774
 
and with composing buffs (I've used Melissa's as an example of the highest level available - dunno if anyone else is higher?), those numbers go  to
 
23000 / 15500 / 8000 / 45000 (rounded up)
 
1. Yes, folk will feel safer in their offline epics
 
2. Not quite sure how boosting offline epic stats is going to reduce animosity ? - unless you just mean that we, who wear them, feel less "picked on" ? (your words, not mine)
 
BG has repeatedly said that there will be no epic sets (not sure if anyone has mentioned ONE piece sets before however) and I think he's right to stick to that.
 
I wear my epics purely and simply to regain stamina more quickly. The stats associated with those items are secondary.

You say 1 thing, but your numbers show this would not be overpowered.. since your stats are still below the best current sets for your level.

Also thought of another areas of the game this affects. Relic defense and groups in general.

Often people will try to buff others in groups or on relics to boost stats, but if they are in epics the buffs have no benefit.

[Mister Doom]

I'm not against the idea Leos, hell I've even tried to persuade HCS to just friggin MAKE the epic sets...

 

For whatever reason, even in the face of superOMGwtfpowerful potions that allow you to walk around and just lolstomp everything in your path... Epics have been relegated to the pantheons of history with regards to actually being powerful items within the game.

 

People don't want variety in FS, they want 2 piece cookie cutter sets to lolstomp everything with their godlike potions.

I can't say I don't enjoy being able to down anything in my path without even thinking about it, but it is 'really' good to not have different options? It's not just epics really, I miss the days when a setup would include commons rares and uniques. Those days are never coming back though I'm afraid. Epics are just about the only ones that could, and only if they are released from the shackles of not being counted by KE, CoA/CoD and SH. (The almighty uber buffs)

[Pardoux]

You say 1 thing, but your numbers show this would not be overpowered.. since your stats are still below the best current sets for your level.

Also thought of another areas of the game this affects. Relic defense and groups in general.

Often people will try to buff others in groups or on relics to boost stats, but if they are in epics the buffs have no benefit.

 

Of course the numbers are still below the best alternative sets - but the best alternative sets don't also have stamina gains on them...

 

There's a trade-off for the perks of wearing stamina gain items ...

[Rocknoor]

Personally, as a wearer of Epic's I have no problem with them being made 1 set items for the purpose of offline defense. Just because they have a stam gain attached to them should not make them exempt from being utilized with other sets without negatively impacting the set specific buffs. 

[Pardoux]

Let's just wait for the usual "no epic sets" comment from BG eh ?

 

(personally, I'd benefit from this, but I still think it's a wrong move, were it implemented ... )

[mary4ever]

I have to agree with Pardoux here !!!

+

EPICs were introduced for the main reason of stam / xp gain per hour !!!

 

if you want a decent offline setup (DEF / ARM) then simple, just do not use EPICs to increase your stats !!!

 

I am wearing a 9 EPIC setup and can easily get defeated by someone wearing a decent PvP setup (DEF / ARM), EPICs are mainly to increase stam / xp gain per hour, you want better stats then use a PvP setup (DEF / ARM) to have much better stats than the EPIC setup !!!

 

for example: when you want to hunt you use a decent HUNTING setup and NOT your EPIC setup !!!

(lower level players, think until lvl 400 the use of EPICs give them better stats for hunting)

 

it is simple:

you want to PvP ==> use a PvP setup

you want to have an offline setup ==> use DEF / ARM setup

you want to have more stam / xp gain per hour ==> use EPICs

Edited by mary4ever, 07 March 2015 - 00:06.

[Mister Doom]

Rubbish, in the beginning when epics were introduced they were made to be powerful items that had stats that put ALL of the other item types to shame. They were epic in name and in stat power.

 

The first epics didn't even have stam gain, even after they began adding stam gain they remained powerful hunting items.

The only thing that changed was the introduction of the CoA/CoD and SH buffs. Which destroyed the use of commons and epics in most cases outside of the arena.

 

 

I actually find it quite hilarious that people oppose this and openly welcome all of the uber potions etc elsewhere in the game which are MUCH more damaging to game balance.

Edited by Mister Doom, 07 March 2015 - 09:05.

[Saxon]

It would be good to consider the defense from an unbuffed unsuspecting player who is offline.

 

This idea would not change the overall result, any player unbuffed (even if EPICs are made into a 9 piece set) still has stats significantly below a buffed player.

 

EPICs were originally used for hunting before the addition of SH, CO-Ord Att buffs, but since the introduction of those buffs EPICs have only one purpose - stam gain. Which isn't a bad thing, more stam = more game time.

 

One idea could be an exceptionally long lasting buff (similar to Deflect or NMV duration) which has the % chance to quadruple the defense and armor of the defending player. But those luck buffs annoy the hell out of anyone that PVPs anyway so its not the best idea LOL

[BadPenny]

How many times do I have to say this.   Epics are still a good line of defense if configured properly.  Yeah, since most of the epics we use are pretty low leveled, the overall stats are low compared to a "regular" offline kit.  However, all of them offer First Strike and many other highly effective enhancements.  I do my prestige run regularly, and at least 20% of the time, I will lose to a player dressed in Epics.  And yes, I wear mine.  I have a stam leak and this helps fix it..... I have many successful defends under my belt, both on and off the board, wearing nothing but my 9 Epics...... They don't need to be a set.  They just have to be used with the right buffs.... Empower and Last Ditch come to mind.  Yeah, folks, those simple "noob" buffs make Epics more Epic

[Windbattle]

I'm not against the idea Leos, hell I've even tried to persuade HCS to just friggin MAKE the epic sets...

 

For whatever reason, even in the face of superOMGwtfpowerful potions that allow you to walk around and just lolstomp everything in your path... Epics have been relegated to the pantheons of history with regards to actually being powerful items within the game.

 

People don't want variety in FS, they want 2 piece cookie cutter sets to lolstomp everything with their godlike potions.

I can't say I don't enjoy being able to down anything in my path without even thinking about it, but it is 'really' good to not have different options? It's not just epics really, I miss the days when a setup would include commons rares and uniques. Those days are never coming back though I'm afraid. Epics are just about the only ones that could, and only if they are released from the shackles of not being counted by KE, CoA/CoD and SH. (The almighty uber buffs)

 +1 about the state of the game.

[Belaric]

People don't want variety in FS, they want 2 piece cookie cutter sets to lolstomp everything with their godlike potions.

 
This is not the game you joined.
 
Everyone wants to win. 
 
What that means is different to everyone.
 
HCS is still deciding what that means to them.
 
I'll see you all in the sky lounge.
 
Might as well look up when the ground is giving way.

Edited by BigGrim, 09 March 2015 - 11:43.

[Mister Doom]

I'm sure I'll be okay Belaric...

 

The thing is, simply because everyone 'wants to win' doesn't mean HCS should acquiesce.

An overly easy game provides no challenge, when a game has no challenge it's lifespan becomes in danger.

 

Think about when you play another game, a hard game. You fight at it and in the end come away with a sense of achievement, you may even go back to it and have another go.

 

Think about playing that same game with cheat codes on that make everything super easy and require no effort.

Do you come away with the same sense of achievement, or is the experience an entirely hollow and pointless one.

 

(Not to pick on you specifically Belaric...)

[kitobas]

it is simple:

you want to PvP ==> use a PvP setup

you want to have an offline setup ==> use DEF / ARM setup

you want to have more stam / xp gain per hour ==> use EPICs

+1 it is simple but some players want easy game, what next asking to give epics all epic 5 stats with (attack, defense, armor, damage, hp) with reason because they are epic?

 

leave epics, they are fine

 

 

The thing is, simply because everyone 'wants to win' doesn't mean HCS should acquiesce.

An overly easy game provides no challenge, when a game has no challenge it's lifespan becomes in danger.

 

Think about when you play another game, a hard game. You fight at it and in the end come away with a sense of achievement, you may even go back to it and have another go.

 

+1 very true bro

 

if game no challenge then players get bored and leaving