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#21 Toreth

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 12:44

While I think the idea behind VR is great and all, might I suggest conferring with "The Three D's" before spending too much more time on this project?



#22 BMachine

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 13:02

While I think the idea behind VR is great and all, might I suggest conferring with "The Three D's" before spending too much more time on this project?

I am currently checking with the HCS staff to whether i am allowed to do this. 

I have spent minimal time putting together an example for the cows to view however the amount of time needed to create something that is both appealing and practical is to much for 1 person hence why i am putting together a team.

I have put down the goals, pathways and plans for this project. They are lengthy and will take time to complete however the end result is worth it.

If my project is allowed then within this month you should have content to view and examine. It will be the Beta but i will allow most of the community to join with an invite code. If successful then feedback will be considered when implementing the official version of the rooms. 

The goals and plans for this project are big, However very possible to do even with a 1 person team. Completion would take 2-3 years with only me rather then 6-12 months with a small team. 

 



#23 EpicPiety

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 13:22

I can almost guarantee they are not going to want their IP ran by someone other than them.



#24 BMachine

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 14:18

I can almost guarantee they are not going to want their IP ran by someone other than them.

I wouldnt use their IP, i would use the servers provided by the platform and if HCS approve of the final design and are happy for a more interactive model i will re create it with UNITY to include more advanced features. The servers from the UNITY design would be owned by HCS or owned by me. If owned by me then the interaction between VR and the game itself will be limited. However if they are owned by HCS and im given access to link collections from bp, maps etc thats when you will be able to see your bp in VR on a wall or have separate folders opened on each wall aswell as other features like guild chat popups, conflict popups, one click composing and quickbuffs, all within a 360 degree view of your head. The options are vast you can display anything in easy format.

The chance of HCS promoting and taking on this project is none due to the app and website version taking up resources. I would also not be able to be provided access to collections. Therefore the platform i am using is best suited to be hosted as the servers until further notice. I dont feel comfortable hosting servers however i would knowing the end result. 

imagine seeing your non-reborn variants of armour on stands in your own personalised VR room that also displays all the relevant info to the activities you participate in. A room that has all the lifetime buffers, avi makers, frag farmers, travelling composers, arena token/pvp token traders and even GvG teams all advertising their services in a 3D setting along the walls and on signs. If you can picture it in your head i can make it and implement it in some way. 



#25 EpicPiety

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 14:29

I'm saying, I doubt they will allow a different vessel to play the game be ran by someone other than them.

I'm not arguing for or against it, doesn't matter to me regardless.

 

Take this as an example, it's basically like someone putting up a separate application to access FS on the app store. Is it the same game sure, however the implications of abuse could be tremendous.

 

Seems like a passion project, so i say keep it up... looks cool... But don't get your hopes up for it being endorsed to be publicly distributed to the community. If this is the whole drive behind the project i say wrap it up as it's slim to none. 


Edited by EpicPiety, 11 April 2022 - 14:31.


#26 BMachine

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 15:13

I'm saying, I doubt they will allow a different vessel to play the game be ran by someone other than them.

I'm not arguing for or against it, doesn't matter to me regardless.

 

Take this as an example, it's basically like someone putting up a separate application to access FS on the app store. Is it the same game sure, however the implications of abuse could be tremendous.

 

Seems like a passion project, so i say keep it up... looks cool... But don't get your hopes up for it being endorsed to be publicly distributed to the community. If this is the whole drive behind the project i say wrap it up as it's slim to none. 

The interactions between the game and the platform im using are streaming only. Meaning you an stream your browser to the VR simulation. You cannot perform any activities.

With the current platform i am working from they are just rooms posted to a community server. People outside of the game can join unless i set to invite only. It is browser based so you can have it run alongside your fallensword account. There is no buttons or links that can interact with your fallensword account only view the fallensword wiki. No buttons including these features have been planned for this platform. 

With the UNITY version owned by me it will require you to be logged in on the chrome browser or the mozilla browser and from there it will only be able to interact with the buttons on the game with a 1 click 1 action ratio. Meaning if i have an enemy i have listed on my screen i can attach an attack button underneath that will attack the target.

With the UNITY version owned by the cows you would be able to view the attack players tab clearly and interact with it smoothly. It would show everything in a better format because they already have the collections so it would just be making a template then filling it out using hyperlinks that they already have. They could also implement direct messaging other players or sending items etc when inspecting their avatar. They could also implement the shoutbox and FS Box.

As far as whether the public will enjoy my project or not i believe they will. I will more then likely see you on there, You say now it matters nothing but when 3 of your mates are streaming chats with rivals in a setting surrounded by fallensword memorabilia im sure you will swing around. When you see the items in the 'discontinued items' Section of the gallery you will want your name on the list of players/guilds that own that set or item.

Do you own a player created creature EpicPiety? would you like that displayed somewhere that is always accessible by the public in a 3D setting. Would you also like to show people the sets and creatures on a wall alongside others that have achieved a legendary creature.

 

What im offering cannot be abused because i created it with the intent of making the game easier to understand aswell as have a more interactive way of learning the game. This is better then being thrown 100 wikis on what to wear, what buff when after who which and why. Just 1 3D setting with portals to the setting you find relevant to the activity your doing or the person your trying to teach is doing. You go from hoping they have read that wiki to know they have seen that wall. 

With that type of interaction of learning it will entice players to look at every wall in that entire 3D setting to give them the upper hand aswell as show them important tools that we might see as common knowledge but its the first time they have seen it. With this type of library and accessibility to knowledge even veterans to this game will find it easier to navigate to the relevant info then going through pages of invention items or wiki pages during LE events. Save several FSP when searching for rare RP items, find lifetime buffers, travelling composers, Avi makers, list goes on.

 



#27 EpicPiety

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 22:03

*Lots of other stuff*

You do you man. However so long as it's possible to abuse, which it is... I can't see it ever being endorsed. I will never encourage anyone I know to use it knowing this. It would be very easy to populate a button that might say one thing, but in reality will do something totally different like send FSP (or pretty much anything).

If this could be properly governed and managed by HCS by all means.



#28 BMachine

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 02:55

*Random*

Okay, to create the function your talking about the steps required CANNOT be done on the platform i am using. There is no tool or possible way of it being done without compromising the server that is hosted by a trusted 3rd party.

furthermore if the server was created by me, owned by me through UNITY no one would have any way of changing anything. By the time you have learnt the skills to compromise and hack my server it would be no different to compromise HCS directly. You wouldnt be able to hide anything i would know almost immediately or the person encountering the issue would and a ticket to cows and a temporary suspension of the room until i test the functions will be done.
 

The UNITY version of the simulation will not be for atleast another few years. However when it does switch it will be like going from fallensword classic to what we know today. There is no convincing you via a forum message so the only way you will appreciate it is when others around you are learning from it. I wouldnt rob random people FSP that is just dumb. Why would i spend months of my time making something for a currency i can just buy. That is the equivalent of going and doing a mechanics apprenticeship just so you could steal your neighbours honda civic. 



#29 EpicPiety

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 13:52

I don't know why and frankly I'm not accusing you either. However there is a potential for abuse, rather easy at that. There is increased liability with player run projects. Specifically with emulation of the game... Which goes many many steps above FSH.

All the power to you, I've never called this a bad idea or really expressed any opinion on it outside of the potential abuse. Just because i think it's a bad idea and won't participate doesn't mean there aren't people who think otherwise and will (Hence I'm neutral).

You need years and if not a decade of trust which frankly you have not yet built. In my opinion this is probably something trust will never buy you. I would never allow a customer to have control over a means of logging in and playing my theoretical game.

At the very least I do find it interesting. I look forward to future updates on this matter.



#30 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 00:24

I don't want to be pessimistic, but if you're using FS as a base to learn how to program and make VR stuff, then it's a fine project to have, even to share it and get other's opinions...But it isn't something the game needs, honestly, you won't really get much positive feedback about it....But again, as a study subject, something to train your mind with, then that's more than fine and I appreciate you're enthusiasm on it.

#31 BMachine

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 06:29

EpicPiety, I have taken your feedback into account. Any features added to the rooms will be thoroughly tested. As far as im aware it can only go to links but not actually fill it out. So although i might be able to hyperlink the send item screen i cant hyperlink names or amounts or any data.
As mentioned the only way i would have those features is if HCS agree to move it from the current platform to a private one where the servers would be privately owned. This is not for years and after years i would be trusted to host or provide assets for the project. 

yghorbeviahn, It is very similar to making a 3D game. The only real difference is the controls, hardware limitations and accessibility. I have already made 3D models in the past and created FPS style games (they were bad but i learnt the basics). I already know how to make something like this. The only difference would be the player controls which i would just copy paste anyway.
You will know whether it is successful outside of the community as there will be a referral link to the game via the VR room. Therefore i can advert a VR/3D guide to a game rather then a screen with cool pictures :). I could also use rewards like character 3D modelling for the VR, Statues for completing  3 legendary creatures displayed in the galleries. These kind of rewards where you can leave a piece of you on a game permanently is what people want that dont know they want in any game. This makes it easier to recruit people into the game also. Achievements you show your friends will appear in a 3d room on pc or in VR with the room made in your image.

This adds years of content as models made for placement of global events and Highscores champs would be given out for free as medals or trophies of success. The content wouldnt be exactly 'new' it would just be recreating gear and content from the game so its 3D instead of 2D and on display in a private room, guild hall or public FS area. Whether you believe its needed or necessary is up to you. I believe having a guild hall in this setting where you can build on and upgrade is a brilliant idea and a good step towards future adaptation.


 



#32 BMachine

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 08:57

Here is a model i made in under 20 minutes. It doesnt look like much but it is half the work in making an 'emissaries split visor' in 3D.

Attached Thumbnails

  • emissaries.png


#33 EpicPiety

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 22:03

EpicPiety, I have taken your feedback into account. Any features added to the rooms will be thoroughly tested. As far as im aware it can only go to links but not actually fill it out. So although i might be able to hyperlink the send item screen i cant hyperlink names or amounts or any data.
As mentioned the only way i would have those features is if HCS agree to move it from the current platform to a private one where the servers would be privately owned. This is not for years and after years i would be trusted to host or provide assets for the project. 

 

I'm telling you as a matter of fact if you can setup buttons to direct to URLs this is a security concern. I'd be hard pressed if they will approve genuine emulation of the game to be ran by anyone other than them. I'd be very careful with this as it may be in violation of TOS.



#34 Corrupted

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 22:26

Looking forward to playing this on my Oculus Quest 2.



#35 BMachine

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 02:07

I'm telling you as a matter of fact if you can setup buttons to direct to URLs this is a security concern. I'd be hard pressed if they will approve genuine emulation of the game to be ran by anyone other than them. I'd be very careful with this as it may be in violation of TOS.

Epic, Yes it is a security concern however the URL to the guild website is equal to what your claiming. Example if there was security concerns you wouldnt be able to create that hyperlink under your guild avi on a very accessible guild page.
The 'Terms of Service' were designed to keep fairness in the game aswell as set rules for both the safety of the user and the safety of the company. If my VR/3D follows the rules of HCS Then it is no different to a guild website. (literally no different to a guild website).
Your feedback until now has been helpful. I think if you understood the direct capabilities of the platform a little more aswell as know the company that owns the platform you would feel alot more comfortable. Also when explaining to someone that they may be breaking ToS you should include which part or the terms is being broken or bent. This helps both the person and you reach an outcome that would better the community as that is the primary goal of the ToS. 

SilentS0ul, Thank you :) people that own 'VR' Equiptment will be offered to test the servers or rooms before they are uploaded. You could potentially be a beta tester. Do you have any suggestions for the rooms or ideas for activities ?



#36 EpicPiety

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 02:39

Simply put no, the guild website shows the URL. Preforming in-game functions via emulation of the game is far different.

If you have plans to do this, you will need to understand this concept. Take my advice or don't take my advice but i'm pretty sure if you are going to create an emulation of the game and have people come test it that may be TOS. Outside of that, there is basic copyright concerns.

Without this, why can't I just create an app to access the game emulating the foundation that is already established off the browser? Simply put Copyright, security concerns and TOS.


Edited by EpicPiety, 14 April 2022 - 02:44.


#37 Tilley10

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 02:43

All of this conversing is nonsense without any HCS input. I feel as thought their priorities should lie elsewhere (DQ re-roll, buff balance, new content, arena update, PvP update, shall I continue?). Congrats on “creating” something, but your energies should be directed to something that can evolve and grow with you.

#38 BMachine

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 05:17

Simply put no, the guild website shows the URL. Preforming in-game functions via emulation of the game is far different.

If you have plans to do this, you will need to understand this concept. Take my advice or don't take my advice but i'm pretty sure if you are going to create an emulation of the game and have people come test it that may be TOS. Outside of that, there is basic copyright concerns.

Without this, why can't I just create an app to access the game emulating the foundation that is already established off the browser? Simply put Copyright, security concerns and TOS.

but what your saying is that URL hyperlink i use to do these functions could be done off the fallensword website via guild URL or the URL itself. 
As for copyright problems all assets that i create are for HCS and HCS can do what they like. For example say they dont like the xiphos blade for any reason. They could remove it completely. Say they never want it to be seen again then i would delete it completely. If they want the controls to do this themselves they can have them. As far as im concerned this is the same as a guild website just on another format that you are not use to and immediately associate with games. This is just a platform primarily used by businesses to communicate. Much like a forum used by many guilds but farm more interactive and visually appealing. This is what websites will look like in the future.

 

 

All of this conversing is nonsense without any HCS input. I feel as thought their priorities should lie elsewhere (DQ re-roll, buff balance, new content, arena update, PvP update, shall I continue?). Congrats on “creating” something, but your energies should be directed to something that can evolve and grow with you.

They should work on the game, this is just a project to help players and give the community something :) similiar to a guide website only 3D and in a format where you access everything with VR controls or wasd keys and mouse. The same controls you would use in traversing the internet. 

Here is a model for reference that i have been working on to give you an idea of what the items would look like if they were 3D. The models are 'low poly' so all devices will be able to use them and enjoy the content.
P.S i bet you cant guess what item it is ;) (not completed)

 

11111111.png



#39 EpicPiety

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 12:52

but what your saying is that URL hyperlink i use to do these functions could be done off the fallensword website via guild URL or the URL itself. 
As for copyright problems all assets that i create are for HCS and HCS can do what they like. For example say they dont like the xiphos blade for any reason. They could remove it completely. Say they never want it to be seen again then i would delete it completely. If they want the controls to do this themselves they can have them. As far as im concerned this is the same as a guild website just on another format that you are not use to and immediately associate with games. This is just a platform primarily used by businesses to communicate. Much like a forum used by many guilds but farm more interactive and visually appealing. This is what websites will look like in the future.

You just aren't following anything I have said. As you do more research, if you get that far you will start to understand what I am saying. Emulation of the game where you can preform actions on a separately owned and player run medium is far and above anything you have explained. You need more research on a fundamental level how the game functions.

 

I see you have a lot of passion and that is good, however there are things you just cannot do. This would be one of them without expressive approval from the developers. Just takes a few seconds of going rogue to cause all sorts of monetary damage to their IP and player base. 

Please reference the "linking to our site" and "intellectual property rights" section of the ToS in addition to basic copyright law.

If it's just a place to hang out unable to actually "play' the game that's cool (probably?). Not my cup of tea, but I'm sure it would be someone's. 

 

I'm dropping out of here, cheers.


Edited by EpicPiety, 14 April 2022 - 13:24.


#40 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 14 April 2022 - 13:52

Let's say someone creates a VR medium for Instagram, without a direct contract with Facebook/Meta, that person could get sued due to copyright infringement, you would be putting a content out there that let people know and interact with the product which wasn't approved by the creators.

Now imagine that person reaching Instagram VR for the first time never heard of normal Instagram before, that would be their first interaction with it, if they don't like it, Facebook/Meta lost a possible costumer due to something made by someone out of the company, and that would be a problem, a legal one.

It can be something similar happening here, but I believe HCS is more flexible with those terms, so I'd recommend you getting direct approval with the devs before going further with this.

(I believe that's what EP is trying to point out to you)


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