5 replies to this topic

[Munnak]

Hi.

 

I'm here to bring something that i was thinking about.

While planning my playstyle and trying to figuring out how i wanted to play this time, I got really sad when i saw that the talents are not class limited but still there is no room on creating an efficient and diferent playstyle. The talent tree is free but if i want to play i need to stuck at the path of one class and mix a little nothing of a parented class.

My suggestion to a more viable hybrid class are two. The first is the obvious:

- Rearrange the talents and maybe add some new talents to the early tiers (i think at the 4th tier is where hybrid would stay).

 

- But to get a complete hybrid you will need to give them support through the thing that i think its what we need here: Itemization. Items that have stats req of an hybrid playstyle and max tier weapons that supports all playstyles (xbows,bows,gloves,claws,swords,everything that you can imagine). And at itemization you will bring up a lot of dynamics, cause an item could have an skill cast on hit or have and unique skill imbued at it so you get a new skill while equiped.

 

Alternative playstyles:

-Unarmed: A glove that give you an bonus to unarmed damage and some of the actual skill adapted to be used in unarmed playstyle. Maybe another glove more powerful that gives the bonus% to unarmed and and hadouken stun skill. (this playstyle would be good with an improved melee haste)

 

-The Arcane Archer: An playstyle where the ranger dps is based on spell and ranged. It can be a more Healer and BeastMaster, where it buffs and heal its pet and do its dps through some enchanted arrows. Or an ranger that have a really improved elemental techniques and hunter traps.

 

-The Cleric: An Off Tank Healer/Buffer playstyle. Where its like the templar but with the focus on Buffs and DPS or Off Tanking.

 

-The Ninja: An different assassin focused on throwing shurikens and claws. With shadow teleporting or something like this.

 

-The Druid: An playstyle that can involve some diferent roles. An shapeshift item skill for melee dps. Or a nature magic user, so focus on some elemental damage and over time healings. or some like this... this one would need more work, but the shapeshift thing i know its "easier" to apply.

 

Anyway i think you got it.

If you guys are thinking on making something like this let me know so i can get sometime studying the trees and itens and help you with something that will get more dynamic and good.

 

bye

[Crasken]

I know your feeling. We are free to mix talents between multiple talent trees which creates lots of diversity and unique build possibilities in theory but most hybrid builds, as well as many of those class suggestions you presented, suffer from inefficiency. Not because the early talents of each tree totally suck but because of attribute point limitations.

 

In short, if you want to be efficient, you have to choose 1 of 3 main damage types, melee ranged or sorcery. This is why only popular hybrids currently are warsins (full melee based damage) and prophmages (damaging spells with healing spells, full sorcery). Other hybrids are tanks which are tailored for their role in dungeons and don't suffer from not having all attribute points in one damage type. If you divide your attribute points evenly into 2 damage types, for example sorcery for long range spells and melee for close range attacks, your damage potential is a lot lower and it doesn't make up the versatility bonus you gain by having talents and skills from both classes.

 

There was a topic about mage-warrior hybrid idea and there I came up with conclusion that to make hybrid classes really work well and have more options that don't totally suck in terms of attack power the game would need items specially tailored for hybrid builds, in mage-warrior example I think there was idea of sword that deals magic based damage so the damage is boosted by your sorcery stat instead of melee stat. But the problems come when you start listing tailored hybrid items for different level ranges and different class combinations, number of items would just explode. Maybe some kind of transmuting option that allows to change base damage of weapon into different type of these 3 option could make it a little bit more simpler but that would still be huge addition to game.

 

About having more powerful talents early on talent trees kind of conflicts the idea of benefits of specializing in a single talent tree. After all you give up diversity potential to reach last levels of talent tree so having more powerful talents down there makes good sense and I wouldn't chance that.

[redsmokeboy]

Maybe some kind of transmuting option that allows to change base damage of weapon into different type of these 3 option could make it a little bit more simpler but that would still be huge addition to game.

 

Issue with this is mage/prohet class hybered option only come's even more over powered as is.

Understand mean alow more hybered option with last change for spell attack power on 1-h - haste gem alow on shield so forth make hybered mage - proget farly decent changling as is.

Now change base weapon dmg spell making class even more pwoerfull.

 

Blance means need be looked at before, making change hwo conflect with curent skills - sure alow more hybered option at same time Pro/mage class still be domateing even more so then basicbefit's of hybered option - many class War/sin suffer issue with mana.

 

Some basic class issue mana specil if use class to it's full means as DPS class not auto attack 1/3 of fight keep mana up vs off loading skills - regen mana off load - Over all regardless how mange mana if doing skill roation to fullest should be omm.

 

With hybered options like. Sin/range issue is mana pool to small alow mele and range to be used effectivly.

rupture - sear - Hemrage - range bleed - Issue here is Rupter - sear based on mele DPS mele DPS slow with range nto worth cost of mana use rupter - sear do to dmg so low as well cost to use combo for full bleed not effective of means. Lack to much to be worth combinding skills in close range hit to long range.

 

Mage/war combo - has potional suffer to much dmg lose to be effective used even in PvP not very functional.

 

Hybryed Range/sin most used for attack bost or doge bost limited means.

[Munnak]

I know you(redsmokeboy) are thinking PvPwise. It really needs balance... The overpower of the mage class is really normal in some less complex MMOs (some the mage is pve-leveling/farming-machine OP and some they are pvp OP).

But to balance, in eldevin, we don't need to tottally nerf the mage. What i see here is that the other classes need to be buffed.

And with an introduction of a better itemization its an possible way to buff them and create new playstyles(not new classes).

Probably after the itemization it would appear an 2 or 3 PvP preferable builds, but, if done right, it will not be so hard to every build have a chance against others.

I havnt ever seen an MMO that the PvP is fully balanced. Always it will have an outstanding class (normally mages or rogues).

The most balanced games that i have seen used an PvP exclusive attribute that balance more the damage taken from other players. And the balance was not perfect cause there was 3 or 2 OP builds.

And I was thinking PvEwise when I wrote this topic(cause im not a pvp fan, but i understand the importance of it).

My point here is that the actual items are flowing in a straight simple line and evolving it could be the way to solve a lot of limitations, boringness and unbalance. And I deeply agree that the augment idea to change weap dmg is not good. The augment could be a good one if its to add more customization to weapons attribute, but if done wrong can bring up a lot of problems.

 

The thing is: Create a new kind of itens! We have here the Tiers of dungeons and craft. We could get some kind of Uniques that dont are from an tier set but have unique properties that do exceptional things. And add new tiers that are not dungeon currency, and are boss droppable. This ones could be the Lore Tier sets, since it would be parts of bosses transformed into equips.

And, of course, rearrange the talent tree.

[minddrag]

In some ways I like your idea. But I think that the ye should be changed. In some ways pvp has been balanced. If you are smart about your build mages can be beat easily. A full warrior with infernal can easily kill a mage even with full shielding. There is balance but you have to have the great to override the initial opness. Now to hybrid classes. Adding new weapons weird be horrible as the drop table will grow larger and less chance to get the own you want. Instead scrap hybrid items all together and ad an enchantment centre where you can enchant then with a certain class build. You can enchant every level and the enchantment you can buy will snake to your level. That way you can still get your pure item drops. Only a few should be implemented though. Too many classes abs out WI get to hectic abs builds to diverse to choose people for dungeons because you won't understand their class. I will expand on this with pictures later.

[Munnak]

I understand your point, but the bigger drop table would be nice since it would require more time spent in dungeons and would improve players trading. By the PvP optic its really annoying to run pve to get the set you need. Thats why PvP arena Currency exist. It should be separated pvp sets from pve sets and at the pvp sets i understand that the enchant thing could work.

Whatever.. you guys got my point and Im glad that the community seems to be supportive about an improved system.