481 replies to this topic

[Leos3000]

I had a lot of fun with this aspect of the game last year, and it was scraped, but was suppose to come back as a global. However The cows were not sure how to do this so it has been delayed.

 

I want to lay out a simple yet detailed way to get this aspect into the game.

 

 

1st and very importantly there has to be a new preference to Opt In/Out of these types of Globals (while I would like to see the whole community participate I realize some have no desire to and do not want to be forced to)

 

 

 

Next is the Format of the Global. These are the Parameters to put in place to make the global fun for all:

 

- Every attack will cost 50 stamina (with a new attack type Global)

 

-There will be a 5 min time limit in between attacks

 

-There would be a skip option at a cost of 50k gold. (skipping causes you to wait another 5 mins for an attack as it is treated as your 5 min interval for an attack)

 

-The Global should last a total of 1 week

 

-To keep the attack system simple you get +1 point for a win(attacking or defending) and -1 point for a loss

 

-Every attack will add 1 point towards the global total and count towards the players Global qualification

 

-No XP loss in these attacks

 

-There will be Gold and durability loss

 

-Seasons attacks are not Bountyable (thought about an auto bounty system, but want to keep it simple for now)

 

-Your opponent is choose by the system each time. The system chooses a player at random that is +/- 25 ranks of you in the Global.

 

To give more detail to the above parameter if you are currently ranked 50th in total points in the global your opponent will be anyone regardless of level who is between the ranks of 25 and 75 at the time of the attack. This keeps any single person from being farmed and means everyone has the same amount of targets to hit. It will probably also mean the higher you move up the ranks the more often you will have to defend an incoming attack.

 

-Since this is a Global for attacking the only buff that should not work is Deflect. As this buff would hinder the community from getting to the global totals.

 

 

Rewards:

 

All of the rewards are already in place in the game so this should be pretty simple for the cows.

 

-There would be 4 tiers to the global. Bronze, Silver, Gold and Crystal

 

-Each Global tier would be 10,000 attacks.

-Bronze @ 10,000

-Silver @ 20,000

-Gold @ 30,000

-Crystal @ 40,000

 

Individual Tiers to qualify would be:

-Bronze 50 attacks

-Silver 75 attacks

-Gold 100 attacks

-Crystal 150 attacks

 

Bronze gets the Bronze rank seasons chest

Silver gets the Silver  rank seasons chest

Gold gets the Gold  rank seasons chest

Crystal gets the Crystal  rank seasons chest.

 

Extras:

 

-Top 100. Place in the top 100 and get 1 extra Crystal Chest Also credit towards progress of top 100 global medal

 

-Top 20. Place in the top 20 and get progress towards the Tyranny medal (being ranked in the crystal league)

 

Top 1 or 1st in the event. Get credit towards the PVP mastery medal.

 

 

 

 

 

*With all of these in place I think we can have some great PVP gloabls and increase game activity

Edited by Leos3000, 10 September 2016 - 14:25.

[cramble27]

Great ideas.

 

My first thought.  Instead of a flat 50k gold to skip, what if it was based on some formula that took into account your level.  I know at my level, 50k gold is very reasonable, but for a level 200 player, that is going to be expensive.

 

I know some might think this is not fair, that higher levels have to pay more, but it would make for a good gold sink.  Hopefully this thread can be a fruitful discussion and a place to brainstorm ideas.

Edited by cramble27, 10 September 2016 - 14:31.

[Pythia]

Would taking part in this wipe out my PvP protection?

 

[Leos3000]

Would taking part in this wipe out my PvP protection?

 

If having your normal pvp protection stay in place would get more interested in participating in the global. I am for that since this is a different game aspect.

[Pythia]

Leveling and questing are my main interests. I like to see what has been coded for me to see as I move through the game.

 

The creatures, the relics the quests. I had a riot in Xindyland, it was fun.

 

I would try this if I did not suffer setbacks to my main interests, but would keep passing it by if I did.

 

edit:   I should add that the reason I would do this is because I believe in being part of the community and helping to reach a common goal.

Edited by Pythia, 10 September 2016 - 15:05.

[Josh1404]

1st and very importantly there has to be a new preference to Opt In/Out of these types of Globals (while I would like to see the whole community participate I realize some have no desire to and do not want to be forced to)

 

* Agreed on this point. Though it is a sad feeling that this cannot be open throughout the whole community an opt in system must be in place in order to allow this idea to flourish. Too many people are averse to the thought of PvP. *

 

Next is the Format of the Global. These are the Parameters to put in place to make the global fun for all:

 

- Every attack will cost 50 stamina (with a new attack type Global)

 

* Sounds good to me, no issues with this amount. *

 

-There will be a 5 min time limit in between attacks

 

* A reasonable amount of time to have to wait for a new attack, no issues with this. *

 

-There would be a skip option at a cost of 50k gold. (skipping causes you to wait another 5 mins for an attack as it is treated as your 5 min interval for an attack)

 

* I think this is an important point also. Let's be honest the EOC blood bath is still going to exist but I am not too averse to that. They earned their inherent gear advantage so that is what it is. However in order for anyone else to both have fun playing in this global and be competitive there needs to be this option to avoid players that without minor miracles in buff activation's are unbeatable. 50k gold is a fair amount, not too much is I think a smart move. Some players may have to skip multiple times and so charging a large amount to skip is unreasonable. *

 

-The Global should last a total of 1 week

 

* Sounds like a good amount of time for this idea. Gives everyone time to invest into this should they choose. Also chance to regain stam enough to be competitive before it ends. *

 

-To keep the attack system simple you get +1 point for a win(attacking or defending) and -1 point for a loss

 

* Straight forward enough for us all to understand. Agreed. *

 

-Every attack will add 1 point towards the global total and count towards the players Global qualification

 

* Again simple enough as in other globals adding to an individual total and a community total. Agreed. *

 

-No XP loss in these attacks

 

* For the sake of making this idea work in the wider community this is probably a must. Some simply won't compete or will remain averse to the very idea of this global if this is not in place so for those reasons I agree. *

 

-There will be Gold and durability loss

 

* Not a problem with this. Gold hitting happens anyway, sensibleness is the order of the day. *

 

-Seasons attacks are not Bountyable (thought about an auto bounty system, but want to keep it simple for now)

 

* Great idea! I think the farce with the BB was a bad point with the previous versions. Being able to smash players with no retribution possible is in my opinion a poor idea. Just makes people regret even bothering. *

 

-Your opponent is choose by the system each time. The system chooses a player at random that is +/- 25 ranks of you in the Global.

 

To give more detail to the above parameter if you are currently ranked 50th in total points in the global your opponent will be anyone regardless of level who is between the ranks of 25 and 75 at the time of the attack. This keeps any single person from being farmed and means everyone has the same amount of targets to hit. It will probably also mean the higher you move up the ranks the more often you will have to defend an incoming attack.

 

* Random selection of opponents is a sound idea to me. And agreed on the selection being made based on your ranking so you are not just farming from players with little interest who are electing not to be competitive. *

 

-Since this is a Global for attacking the only buff that should not work is Deflect. As this buff would hinder the community from getting to the global totals.

 

* Yes I agree with this for the reason you state that this is a global event. Ultimately progress towards the community total takes priority. So yes deflect not working with this event is a good move. *

 

 

Rewards:

 

All of the rewards are already in place in the game so this should be pretty simple for the cows.

 

-There would be 4 tiers to the global. Bronze, Silver, Gold and Crystal

 

-Each Global tier would be 10,000 attacks.

-Bronze @ 10,000

-Silver @ 20,000

-Gold @ 30,000

-Crystal @ 40,000

 

* Could be a little ambitious for the first implementation of this event. Not sure we will make anything like the crystal tier. I would instead propose the same structure but instead 5,000, 10,000, 15,000 and 20,000 as the amounts required for each tier. *

 

Individual Tiers to qualify would be:

-Bronze 50 attacks

-Silver 75 attacks

-Gold 100 attacks

-Crystal 150 attacks

 

* By 150 attacks I am assuming you mean 150 points? As in a total of 150 considering all of your attacks you win and all the losses you may take through defending? A little clarification on this would be nice for an idiot like me. *

 

Bronze gets the Bronze rank seasons chest

Silver gets the Silver  rank seasons chest

Gold gets the Gold  rank seasons chest

Crystal gets the Crystal  rank seasons chest.

 

* Straight forward, In agreement with this. *

 

Extras:

 

-Top 100. Place in the top 100 and get 1 extra Crystal Chest Also credit towards progress of top 100 global medal

 

* Agreed, as with other globals the global medal progress may be an incentive to some and so this remaining the case is a good idea. *

 

-Top 20. Place in the top 20 and get progress towards the Tyranny medal (being ranked in the crystal league)

 

* I love the idea of adding this medal back into the game and making it achievable for those of us that don't have it. I feel though if your adding the tyranny medal for this reward then this should be top 50 instead of top 20. Just in view of the fact there will probably be 20 EOC players prepared to use composing potions to dominate the higher end of the ranks. For anyone not at EOC to achieve this medal the rank needed must be lower in my opinion. *

 

* Not drastically lower as it still needs to be earned and not gifted to people but making it achievable for a wider level range is key. Just for fairness and trying to make it slightly less of a blood bath from those EOC players. I also feel this will incentivize more players to participate if they know they have a chance at least of earning the medal. *

 

* From a personal point of view this would be my sole incentive for participation in this event. Having missed all other versions of seasons not having the medal bother's me. I am a medal orientated player and this would definitely make me go all out for any chance to win this medal. I'd spent whatever it takes to secure this medal. *

 

Top 1 or 1st in the event. Get credit towards the PVP mastery medal.

 

* Sounds good, but then you won't have it exclusively? Or will you? *  

 

With all of these in place I think we can have some great PVP gloabls and increase game activity

 

* I hope so, I would love to see this return in some guise. I regret that I missed this event in it's previous forms so the chance to compete in seasons would be appreciated and thoroughly enjoyable. I hope others feel the same and also wish to see this return. *

All responses to your idea in bold between the *'s.

 

Thank you for posting this Leos. I agree with many points you made and wish to see this return almost exactly as you laid it out.

 

Hope a rogue bovine stops by and gives this the thought it deserves.

 

Hoof where art thou?

[yodamus]

i gave you a like,  due to the great effort , time and thoughtfulness on your idea...a huge part of your idea is great..matter a fact nearly all of it is great..especially the no xp loss part- if you want the global community to join in- this is an absolute must...but watch how many will disagree..still to this day i dont understand the demand for xp loss...since that is what has held pvp back for years..great effort ..keep up the good work leo...i would join in on this global with your ideas..

[Pythia]

Treat it like a GE and keep your eyes on the prize.

 

That is the way we do the other events. lol

 

Losses we suffer come because we did not prepare well enough, or we don't lose anything at all.

 

 

No hit can be bountied, no experience loss.

 

Gear takes hits we repair... That's fair.

I

Edited by Pythia, 10 September 2016 - 15:56.

[Leos3000]

* By 150 attacks I am assuming you mean 150 points? As in a total of 150 considering all of your attacks you win and all the losses you may take through defending? A little clarification on this would be nice for an idiot like me. * 

 

 

 

 

If you look in the parameters it has:

 

-Every attack will add 1 point towards the global total and count towards the players Global qualification

 

So every attack a player completes (win or lose) counts towards their global qualification (not necessarily their rank)

 

 

 

* I love the idea of adding this medal back into the game and making it achievable for those of us that don't have it. I feel though if your adding the tyranny medal for this reward then this should be top 50 instead of top 20. Just in view of the fact there will probably be 20 EOC players prepared to use composing potions to dominate the higher end of the ranks. For anyone not at EOC to achieve this medal the rank needed must be lower in my opinion. *

 

* Not drastically lower as it still needs to be earned and not gifted to people but making it achievable for a wider level range is key. Just for fairness and trying to make it slightly less of a blood bath from those EOC players. I also feel this will incentivize more players to participate if they know they have a chance at least of earning the medal. *

 

While this could be expanded it really depends on how big the participation is for the event. Do not want it to be super easy or super difficult. I think in the original event only around 20 made crystal and where I came up with the number. Could start at 20 and expand for the 2nd event if it seems necessary. Also the less people who get the medal, the more who will want/need to go for it over time instead of a ton of 1 and dones.

Edited by Leos3000, 10 September 2016 - 16:10.

[Josh1404]

If you look in the parameters it has:

 

-Every attack will add 1 point towards the global total and count towards the players Global qualification

 

So every attack a player completes (win or lose) counts towards their global qualification (not necessarily their rank)

 

While this could be expanded it really depends on how big the participation is for the event. Do not want it to be super easy or super difficult. I think in the original event only around 20 made crystal and where I came up with the number. Could start at 20 and expand for the 2nd event if it seems necessary. Also the less people who get the medal, the more who will want/need to go for it over time instead of a ton of 1 and dones.

Ah ok that seems fair enough. Assumed it was a point based qualification as opposed to an attack based qualification. But I am not against that at all. Perhaps fairer in fact so that people can qualify for the rewards even if they don't reap many points from their attacks. Thanks for the response.

 

And I hear you on the reasoning for the medal. I do feel that at top 20 for anyone outside EOC to make it is super difficult. But your right, we should have an initial event and then learn from there the changes that are needed. No real way to estimate effectively so I am all for an initial event at those numbers. But I do understand and also wish for the medal to not be easily earned despite me needing it. I would like to earn it. I don't want to be handed it. All in all I think this is a great baseline to move forward from.

[wil72]

I have no gold and use a distilled Resilience Pot. Where then is the "consequence" in your PvP Global?

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

Edited by wil72, 10 September 2016 - 16:46.

[Leos3000]

I have no gold and use a distilled Resilience Pot. Where then is the "consequence" in your PvP Global?

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

You have normal PVP if you want consequences... This does not replace that like it tried to in the past.

 

Globals are events where the community works towards a common goal, while still competing with each other for top spots.

[Artzik]

Sounds good

PVP seasons was best thing that had happened to this game in years, and the biggest mistake in years was to discontinue developing it

[wil72]

You have normal PVP if you want consequences... This does not replace that like it tried to in the past.

 

Globals are events where the community works towards a common goal, while still competing with each other for top spots.

 

You need to rename it then mate, as it is not a PvP Global Event.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

Edited by wil72, 10 September 2016 - 17:28.

[Bluetail]

Last time the community voted heavily against PvP Seasons. What youve proposed is eerily similar. I can give many reasons why I would NOT support an event like this and highlight why the current ladder already does the same but better. Firstly there is still the issue of a lack of targets (you didnt fix this), what if nobody within +/- 25 levels of me wishes to opt in? Will you force some inactives in like last time, or will I have to hit back and forth with the same two or three people every five minutes? Not to mention more heavily populated ranges will have more attackers, requiring those players in the range to defend more than in empty ranges (more incoming attacks). In the case of the ladder it handles having a low participation rate much better since attacks are spread out to at least one hour between to reduce the amount of incoming attacks and the players competing together are under the exact same set of conditions.

 

Secondly, by taking away the option to choose your opponent, larger guilds will be forced to hit their own members. This caused so much drama (not in my guild, but the FS Box was flooded with it) in the past and I doubt anybody wants to deal with that again. In the ladder you can actively choose who you want to hit, allowing you to punish those who opt in with epics and are even prevented (opposed to being forced) to hit your own guildmates.

 

Thirdly, the timeframe is very easily exploitable. By knowing when the event ends players have the ability to put more emphasis on the end by drinking composing pots, swapping out of epics, ect to build up the points theyve lost to reach the rank they want. This was evident in seasons. The ladder can end at anytime after a set time period and unlike what your proposing (a set week). In the ladder you could easily be dethroned in under an hour from the ladder reset, which shows that you need to be more involved over the entire ladder span than in this event format.

 

A largest flaw in what youre proposing is the potential stamina cost and even the time needed to competitively compete in this event. If an attack is 50 stamina every five minutes thats a potential 600 stamina an hour, which will become a must if you want to place in the top ranks! Do you see how nuts that is for players wishing to compete with lower stamina banks? Youve alienated the player base once again. This waters down the needed skills to spot an opening in your opponent, choosing the right amount of stamina and hit when the points are optimal with a stam fight. Not to mention, do you really think everyone has the time to pop in every five minutes of the day, for a week to play this game? Youve taken away the aspect of catching and being caught point wise and replaced it with a stamina/ time bid. We already have our current globals as a form of stamina bids, we dont need more. Yes, you could also potentially spend as much stamina in the ladder per hour, but the ladder is designed so that you get less return when you are already in the lead. In alot of cases hitting the ladder leader will give you more points than hitting all the players below you. This current ladder scoring method is perfect, unless you can come up with a large scale system with the same type of scoring, we have the ladder to fall back on. The notion of having a balanced large scale PvP event in this type of game is nearly impossible, the levels have been stretched out too much to amplify too many variables. That and the fact that PvP in this game requires more mental skill/ preparation than physical skill really drives the nail in the coffin for large competitive PvP events.

 

Lastly, no Xp loss? Why are we even competing against eachother then? Youve removed all elements of risk from PvP and thrown a huge safety net underneath it. The whole concept of PvP is players mutually putting themselves and their progress on the line in order to compete. If you want PvP without Xp loss you can always try the arena. If you want to have an experience where you need to pot/ buff up to kill something requiring better stats, go SE or Titan hunting. If you want to bid stamina, compete in a global. Xp loss sounds scary at first but its really isnt. With how easy it is to level now with new huge pots and composing its sad to see people cower at the idea of some Xp loss. Just like a real fight, PvP should always have some sort of risk. Would a fight be interesting if the fighters left the ring without trading blows that actually left an impact? In your system once its over its over, youve lost nothing more than the stamina youve put in. You may think you want some form of PvP but what youre craving for is something else. 

 

Overall I doubt HCS will ever reinstate any derivative even remotely close to PvP Seasons since that was a huge waste of their time and resources. There is a reason theyve wiped it off the face of the Earth (really, you cant even find it in the medals page anymore). If anything, what youve proposed will be less successful so I dont think it needs to be pursued any further. Im very curios as to why you would want to have an event like this, since you know what its like to play the ladder already. I know you put some work into this but Im sure Ive put just as much work into proving why it doesnt work. Unless you can address these concerns I dont see how I can support this or see how this actually has what was needed to patch up PvP Seasons.

Edited by Achub, 10 September 2016 - 17:44.

[Pythia]

It is PvP, the qualifier is Global Event. 

 

If it is to be an event it should work like other events, just because it involves PvP does not mean it has to have the downside of PvP.

 

I would never take part in PvP, not straight up, not ladder not anywhere or anyway. It's not where my love of this game lies.

 

If it is treated like an event with no experience loss, no PvP protection loss and no bounties, I would be tempted to try it out.

 

If it is treated like PvP with all that means, then those that PvP can push the event to its conclusion without me.

[wil72]

It is PvP, the qualifier is Global Event. 

 

If it is to be an event it should work like other events, just because it involves PvP does not mean it has to have the downside of PvP.

 

I would never take part in PvP, not straight up, not ladder not anywhere or anyway. It's not where my love of this game lies.

 

If it is treated like an event with no experience loss, no PvP protection loss and no bounties, I would be tempted to try it out.

 

If it is treated like PvP with all that means, then those that PvP can push the event to its conclusion without me.

 

This idea is NOT PvP. Don't be fooled that it is. If this idea was ever implemented it would set a precedence. I can just see it now.

 

"I just got hit by a player in a PvP attack, they stole my gold, they took my XP and damaged my gear. This doesn't happen in the PvP Global Event so why should it happen at all?"

 

Adding an event like this would only further try to water down PvP and turn those that practice PvP away from the game in my opinion. Do you really want that with the player base sitting as it is?

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[Bluetail]

Pythia, do you understand that what your asking for already exists at a fundamental level in the game? If you want to play competitively against other players you have the option to Titan hunt. Titan hunting is by far the best form of large scale competition HCS could have ever added to the game. Its exactly the same as Leo's system (Only Stamina and buffs go in, you compete against others, there are winners which receive prizes based on how well they participate). If you remove the risk there is no "PvP" it is now something else. Analyse what Ive said in my last post and you should realize why you would not enjoy a remash of the seasons or why youd be limited from competing competitively.

 

You mention a few things that you consider downsides. I can promise you nobody will bounty you on the ladder and competitive PvP with no Xp loss comes in the form of the Arena. Tell me where I stand wrong on this? Overall this system removes the social aspect of PvP entirely, it would be no different if all the other players were replaced with CPUs that hit every five minutes. There is no thinking involved here, you just get buffed and see whos willing to spend the most stamina.

 

It sounds better because it seems easier to most, "I dont have to worry about bounties", or "I dont have to worry about Xp loss and getting my levels back" but in order to better separate winners from losers the system needs to be harder or atleast have some consequence. When I use to mark papers for my Prof I use to be surprised at how bad some student did but he said to me "The best exams are the ones that are the hardest. Even if many do poorly, it better seperates those that know from those that dont know." Anyone can do the same thing if its quite simple, but you really need to throw in more spice to it if you want to separate the winners from the losers.

Edited by Achub, 10 September 2016 - 18:12.

[Pythia]

The idea of this thread, I think, was to get people to try out PvP.

 

I will never do that except in this format.

 

Hoof said seasons would come back in some form, this is not that form, from my understanding.  I hope, if it is, I'll pass as I have in the past and still do.

 

How much do you want to convince people to try out PvP?

 

You're call, you decide.

 

You stand wrong in that anything other than this would kill my PvP protection and that is not going to happen.

Edited by Pythia, 10 September 2016 - 18:13.

[Leos3000]

Last time the community voted heavily against PvP Seasons. What youve proposed is eerily similar. I can give many reasons why I would NOT support an event like this and highlight why the current ladder already does the same but better. Firstly there is still the issue of a lack of targets (you didnt fix this), what if nobody within +/- 25 levels of me wishes to opt in? Will you force some inactives in like last time, or will I have to hit back and forth with the same two or three people every five minutes? Not to mention more heavily populated ranges will have more attackers, requiring those players in the range to defend more than in empty ranges (more incoming attacks). In the case of the ladder it handles having a low participation rate much better since attacks are spread out to at least one hour between to reduce the amount of incoming attacks and the players competing together are under the exact same set of conditions.

 

 

If this is your 1st point you missed the whole thing... it is not +/- 25 levels of your level its of your rank in the global. So everyone has the exact same amount of targets at any given time. Your targets would be people who are being around as active as you are with the event.

 

 

Secondly, by taking away the option to choose your opponent, larger guilds will be forced to hit their own members. This caused so much drama (not in my guild, but the FS Box was flooded with it) in the past and I doubt anybody wants to deal with that again. In the ladder you can actively choose who you want to hit, allowing you to punish those who opt in with epics and are even prevented (opposed to being forced) to hit your own guildmates.

 

Thirdly, the timeframe is very easily exploitable. By knowing when the event ends players have the ability to put more emphasis on the end by drinking composing pots, swapping out of epics, ect to build up the points theyve lost to reach the rank they want. This was evident in seasons. The ladder can end at anytime after a set time period and unlike what your proposing (a set week). In the ladder you could easily be dethroned in under an hour from the ladder reset, which shows that you need to be more involved over the entire ladder span than in this event format.

 

 

2nd this option is actually another thing that makes it MORE fair to everyone as there is no room to abuse or gang up on any 1 person. Your target is random and you have the ability to skip...

 

3rd The timeframe works just like GLOBAL EVENTS do, they have a set end time that everyone knows about.

 

4th Stamina Cost is just like ALL GLOBAL events..

 

5th No XP loss was a key component to getting higher participation in these types of events. once again this does not replace the current pvp system, but it could entise more to pvp when the event is not running.

 

Last no one will bounty you on the ladder because they cant

 

From your post I dont think you realize this is a global event...