481 replies to this topic

[wil72]

Firstly, can I just say that if HCS introduce a PvP Seasons Global Event and the reward for reaching.....whatever...is exceptionally good then this would be a perfectly LEGITIMATE way for HCS to entice players to partake. They do this for all other globals......no back handers in sight.

 

Reduced XP loss. Ok, that could work. But and it's a very big but.........how would this affect the BBoard?

 

Hits there would really have to fall in line with the reduced XP loss, that being 100 xp as suggested. At this greatly minimised XP loss I think it breaks the BBoard. I mean, I could smash players on the Board, get posted and the maximum XP loss I would face per hit would be 100000. I could achieve my Bounty and Smasher medals pretty much scot-free. Would that not render those medals worthless?

 

A PvP attack and the BBoard work hand in hand. If the mechanics for one are changed then they "must" be changed for the other.

 

So I would be careful with what XP loss reduction is deemed to be "acceptable".

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

Edited by wil72, 30 December 2016 - 20:32.

[Calista]

Yeah, I was already starting to think along those lines. The bb has to be involved and I'm not sure how that would work with that much reduced xp loss. But I do think we can afford to make the xp loss minimal compared to the norm. There would also have to be a way to differentiate between event hits and regular pvp hits. No good to limit a guilds ability to defend its players outside of the event.

[wil72]

Agree totally. A PvP Seasons Global Event must be a seperate game entity and have no impact on the current PvP Combat mechanic or BBoard.

 

 

With regard to the PvP Seasons Global Event......

 

Should the BBoard, dare I say it, be automated?

 

This deals with the question about medals as you would get none.

 

Should a BBoard posting have risk of level loss and if so how many levels should this be per posting if the losing party in a PvP attack only has their XP reduced by 100 during the PvP Seasons Event.

 

What about gold loss and gear durability loss? Should this happen? And to what degree? The amount of each, if it were to occur, would also affect the XP loss mechanic with regard to the BBoard.

 

Personally, I would like there to be the risk of level loss on a BBoard posting but the number that could be lost would have to be dependent on the above.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[yotwehc]

Yeah, saw you said that before. I disagree for two reasons:

 

1) Possible abuse.

2) PvP is not "supposed" to be about leveling.

 

After all, prestige was instituted for that very reason... and look what's happened. 

 

I do think the PvP Ladder prestige pot was a good idea, but I think it was a bit of a "balanced" trade off.

If defending player wins, he earns a prestige point? up to 10 per attacker?

[Corrupted]

Agree totally. A PvP Seasons Global Event must be a seperate game entity and have no impact on the current PvP Combat mechanic or BBoard.

 

 

With regard to the PvP Seasons Global Event......

 

Should the BBoard, dare I say it, be automated?

 

This deals with the question about medals as you would get none.

 

Should a BBoard posting have risk of level loss and if so how many levels should this be per posting if the losing party in a PvP attack only has their XP reduced by 100 during the PvP Seasons Event.

 

What about gold loss and gear durability loss? Should this happen? And to what degree? The amount of each, if it were to occur, would also affect the XP loss mechanic with regard to the BBoard.

 

Personally, I would like there to be the risk of level loss on a BBoard posting but the number that could be lost would have to be dependent on the above.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

It shouldn't be completely automated. Something that would trigger it would be like the "dump gold here to trigger a bounty on X person that hit you" kind of thing BUT if this were to happen, at the moment you get placed on the "Special Bounty Board" because the system putting you there and you get cleared, your "counter" should reset on every single player.  

We don't want people getting posted over and over just because some person they hit days ago in the Event decides to put money on it kinda thing.

I think gold/durability should be a thing too. You're getting hit and your gear surely is too.

[Egami]

Seeing just the recent posts since my last one. 

 

I have been working for over a year (really, probably the last 5 at least) on an idea for a BB revamp which, when I bother to suggest it, I believe will satisfy levelers and BHs without sacrificing how PvP has developed. 

 

That's my goal. It's extremely convoluted, off-topic and still requires tons of thought, but is mostly worked out. I don't expect to present the idea until 2018, btw. 

 

Why this off-topic "preview" is relevant is simply because I really want to stress in this post, and especially to Hoof, that there is a clear and present danger of once again losing sight of the PvP game aspect. 

 

This is due to a variety of game issues. 

 

I don't want to derail this suggestion with yet another of my "text walls" (well, even more so than this already is). 

 

I fully get, and appreciate, that people don't agree with me. I am NOT AT ALL against that. 

 

My major issue is, and always will be, that a mouse should look beyond the cheese in front of their nose. 

 

I do get some players clamoring for the so-called "OP" prize for this event because of what they consider to have been "OP" prizes for other game aspects. 

 

Personally, if this GE is not based on current game mechanics, I will vote against it (assuming there's a vote), no matter what the prize is. I will, theoretically (no promises) do my best to get all FS players to vote against it.

 

I'm concerned that PvPers could cry for the cheese in front of their nose, particularly by claiming a bigger cheese (and perhaps rightly so) is necessary based on comparison, just as I'm concerned that levelers will continue to misunderstand the game and cry out against what they define as injustice. 

 

If HCS insists on an opt-in, I probably won't bother. I couldn't care less about XP loss, but that will be my protest... oddly enough in line with all of those FS players who think XP loss is the worst thing that could happen to them in game. 

 

I don't share that view. I think the lack of education is the worst thing that has happened to this game. To that, I see very little solution apart from players willing to put forth the effort. 

Edited by Egami, 30 December 2016 - 22:14.

[rowbeth]

If it were this low, I don't think most people would care (you never know though, some get extremely annoyed by gvg hits) but how does this teach anyone that the xp loss is not too bad when it's tweaked down this low. Is that enough of the risk people are demanding?

 

A point on which I'd disagree with you, Chewy.

 

As I've said numerous times, its not just experience (as is obvious from the GVG you noted).

 

If the event was to ban breaker/leach (or turn them into one-battle effects), and if it voided the enhancement that removed half weapon durability ..., then I might be happy for it to go ahead without an opt-in. But if I'm going to be in a position where lots of people are going to hit me lots of times* simply because I'm there to be hit, then I might as well go inactive as I wouldn't be doing anything else while such a global was on.

 

I see numerous downsides to PVP (as far as my play style is concerned - a purely subjective assessment). While hits are infrequent, and i can control (reasonably) the risk of being hit, I will live with it and enjoy the rest of the game. Its  the frequency of hits increasing substantially for reasons I have no control over (as many on this thread are wanting a PVP Global to do) that will drive me to re-evaluate what I am doing here.

 

On the other hand, I'd be very happy to see this run with the exceptionally good rewards that Wil keeps talking about combined with an opt-in. The way one gets new customers is to entice them in. If people are convinced PVP is so much fun, then entice them in---don't force a tasteless (watered-down) version down their throats.

 

[Ed  * and break my buffs in the process]

Edited by rowbeth, 31 December 2016 - 00:05.

[yotwehc]

... 

 

I don't share that view. I think the lack of education is the worst thing that has happened to this game. To that, I see very little solution apart from players willing to put forth the effort. 

Nothing you have suggested or promoted has helped in this regard. Perhaps it's part of your secret 2018 plan that you plan to unleash. You were very supportive of the initial incarnation of the smasher medal yet what education was there? This version of seasons being suggested also does not support any education. You may not share others views but without understanding other views, you will always come to the wrong conclusions.

[Egami]

Nvm. 

 

Happy New Year Hoof! 

Edited by Egami, 30 December 2016 - 23:15.

[Belaric]

This has been a good discussion about the potential global/thread that won't die!

 

I have supported this idea for a long time. I think adapting and reusing the seasons for a PvP global would be good. I'd make it a gurgriss related story theme probably - I suggested something about that forever ago. I have previously been disappointed that HCS have not done more on this sooner - but given the clash of opinions on PvP, it is not surprising the developers are wary of rocking the boat.

 

I have a memory of the original seasons that maybe you guys could clarify, or Hoof/BG could confirm.

 

I seem to recall the original seasons was pretty much opt in. Because you started in the wooden tier, and had to make hits, and once out of the wooden tier you were committed to the season, or at least that is how I dimly remember it.

 

At the time I decided to sit out and see how it went - I made no hits, and thus never joined in the seasons - I was not put into the mix for being randomly selected as a target, and so was not hit once during the entire run of the original seasons, pre or post the XP screw up etc. I have never bought PvP protection, so that was not the reason I was able to stay on the sidelines - I did so by simply not making a hit, as I recall.

 

Hmm, but how then were inactives included? They certainly would not have made any hits either! My memory is fuzzy on how that happened too.

 

Can anyone corroborate any of my recollections, or am I blowing smoke? I just have a strong feeling that it was possible to ignore the seasons as they originally stood, and that therefore there was a kind of opt in there anyway. I think it had to do with wooden tier and making hits, but I can't really recall. I looked briefly for an old thread describing the original season rules, but did not find it due to one search and done laziness. Maybe I'll try again. 

 

EDIT: Aha - the original explanatory thread was moved to the staff forums by Hoof during the many adjustments to the original seasons. Looking back at the info available I figure I stayed in the wood tier with a bunch of other folk who didn't want to do much hitting - the hitters all started blazing away and went up in the tiers leaving the non-participants largely alone in the wood tier/basement. (As you could only hit folk in your own tier - once all the active participants had left the wooden tier behind the inactives like me were basically left alone) So not an opt out exactly (that was introduced later) but it seemed to work for me (again, according to my dim recollection) in terms of avoiding/minimising hits.

 

My point being, if the global is modelled after the seasons and those tiers are involved, it looks like there was a way to pretty much avoid participation if you didn't want to, even before the explicit opt-out was added. So the top 100 global comp would be the race through the original seasons tiers (wood-titan) for the participants, with the top 100 in the top tier winning any bonus prizes/sexy medals, and the global kill totals for the community reward being based on total number of hits performed by the entire community participating in the global, no matter what seasons tier they attained. Those hits would count against the standard global tiers (bronze-ruby), and qualify those who hit various hit totals for comunity rewards.

 

Too many tiers... need to change the name for one of them to avoid confusion.

 

I hope that helps. I may still be confused! Happy New Year to everyone involved in FS!

Edited by Belaric, 31 December 2016 - 01:18.

[yotwehc]

This has been a good discussion about the potential global/thread that won't die!

 

I have supported this idea for a long time. I think adapting and reusing the seasons for a PvP global would be good. I'd make it a gurgriss related story theme probably - I suggested something about that forever ago. I have previously been disappointed that HCS have not done more on this sooner - but given the clash of opinions on PvP, it is not surprising the developers are wary of rocking the boat.

 

I have a memory of the original seasons that maybe you guys could clarify, or Hoof/BG could confirm.

 

I seem to recall the original seasons was pretty much opt in. Because you started in the wooden tier, and had to make hits, and once out of the wooden tier you were committed to the season, or at least that is how I dimly remember it.

 

At the time I decided to sit out and see how it went - I made no hits, and thus never joined in the seasons - I was not put into the mix for being randomly selected as a target, and so was not hit once during the entire run of the original seasons, pre or post the XP screw up etc. I have never bought PvP protection, so that was not the reason I was able to stay on the sidelines - I did so by simply not making a hit, as I recall.

 

Hmm, but how then were inactives included? They certainly would not have made any hits either! My memory is fuzzy on how that happened too.

 

Can anyone corroborate any of my recollections, or am I blowing smoke? I just have a strong feeling that it was possible to ignore the seasons as they originally stood, and that therefore there was a kind of opt in there anyway. I think it had to do with wooden tier and making hits, but I can't really recall. I looked briefly for an old thread describing the original season rules, but did not find it due to one search and done laziness. Maybe I'll try again. 

I believe this was the first glimpse of the system:

https://forums.hunte... seasons&page=1

 

And 8 days later, opt-out was offered (probably due to overwhelming feedback ;-p):

https://forums.hunte... seasons&page=1

 

I think you were very lucky not to get hit... Seems impossible without protection :/

[Belaric]

I believe this was the first glimpse of the system:

https://forums.hunte... seasons&page=1

 

And 8 days later, opt-out was offered (probably due to overwhelming feedback ;-p):

https://forums.hunte... seasons&page=1

 

I think you were very lucky not to get hit... Seems impossible without protection :/

Ah, okay. Those were the threads I found too. I took the opt out once it got offered, and maybe before that I just lucked out. I was wondering if the seasons could kind of select out by simply not leaving wood level you'd largely be left out, as the active players would all rise through the seasons tiers and not be able to hit the folk that were not participating by virtue of the seasons mechanic itself. Thus meaning an opt-out would be less necessary. Depends how many hits got dished out before anyone left the wooden tier...

 

Happy Hogmanay everyone!

[Hoofmaster]

Not had a chance to read through all this yet, but will do as soon as I can

[wil72]

 

And 8 days later, opt-out was offered (probably due to overwhelming feedback ;-p):

 

 

Opt out was added to PvP Seasons 24hrs after its conception. Even though it was it didn't have to much of an impact on participation. Lets face it "opt out" is going to be a mechanic of a PvP Seasons Global Event. Personally I don't care if it is as I bet the event will still be busy.

 

"PvP Seasons as a Global" thread. The thread that just keeps on giving.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

Edited by wil72, 07 January 2017 - 16:54.

[yotwehc]

Opt out was added to PvP Seasons 24hrs after its conception. Even though it was it didn't have to much of an impact on participation. Lets face it "opt out" is going to be a mechanic of a PvP Seasons Global Event. Personally I don't care if it is as I bet the event will still be busy.

"PvP Seasons as a Global" thread. The thread that just keeps on giving.

Cheers.

wil72

8 days is between the "preview" post and the "opt out" announcement. Thanks for getting the details on exactly when it occurred. Must have been really positive feedback ;-p

[wil72]

8 days is between the "preview" post and the "opt out" announcement. Thanks for getting the details on exactly when it occurred. Must have been really positive feedback ;-p

 

Well, it didn't help that the initial XP loss that occurred during the first rounds of PvP Seasons was bugged and exceptionally high. Had this not been the case who knows which way HCS would have gone with an "opt out" as any outcry would be comparable to what we get now.........miserably inadequate.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[matt2269f]

the topic that cant die lol 

[duktayp]

the topic that cant die lol 

[Windbattle]

I'm for going back to the standardization of pvp and BB posting people based on gold stolen .... since we can't have that due to a few people in this game

I will have to accept pvp seasons as a global only. Sounds good Leos

Edited by BigGrim, 23 January 2017 - 10:02.
Let's not flamebait, thanks.

[wil72]

Not had a chance to read through all this yet, but will do as soon as I can

 

How many pages of this thread have you "managed" to read Hoof?

 

Cheers.

 

wil72