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#141 Subject

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 03:29

I miss the good old GvG days when you didn't need a partner to gvg.. GvG was active back then... but ey what can i say oldies are goodies ;) ...

#142 Chooma123

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 09:18

Partly.  But look at it this way.  Maybe it will inspire you and your guildmates to be more aware of the need to dress defensively while offline.  To put away the shiny epics and dress in something more PvP worthy.  

 

In the case of a draw, what would you suggest happen?  There aren't many choices here.  I can only think of a few, mainly:

A. Defender gets RP points, agressor gets nothing.

B. Both get equal points

C. Defender gets double the amount of points as the agressor.

D. Things stay as they are for the GvG itself, and there is a separate dynamic for the "seasons" portion, let's call them victory ticks.  In case of a draw, both sides get a tick, when there's an obvious victor, they get 2 ticks.... something along those lines. At the beginning of each season period everybody gets set back to 0 and it all starts over.  Season standings should also be separate from overall standings as not all guilds will qualify for season play....

 

Now these things are just one old lady's opinion.... in the grand scheme of things, I don't know anything, I'm just here to have fun and socialize with my friends.  GvG and PvP have always  been a big factor in how I meet people and I want these things to be encouraged...

 

But I don't believe the whole idea should be scrapped because of one or 2 things people disagree about.  Learning the thoughts of the community is the primary reason he was asked to post in the first place, was it not?  So that we can all ring in and express our concerns so a consensus can be reached.  I realize that not everybody will be happy, and in truth, we may all hate it in the end and it all end up scrapped.... But the only way to know is for us to all say what we feel and offer alternatives to the parts we disagree with, so that we can have a meeting of the minds at the very least.

I mean its not like this is actually going to happen (changes to pvp/gvg? lol)

 

but to start with, a draw is a tie, it deserves equal reward for both parties

and if it were for some reason introduced it would only take time for you too see the effects :)



#143 Ryebred

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 11:24

I mean its not like this is actually going to happen (changes to pvp/gvg? lol)

but to start with, a draw is a tie, it deserves equal reward for both parties
and if it were for some reason introduced it would only take time for you too see the effects :)

In the competitive mind draws on initiated conflicts are almost as bad as losses. Your reward for keeping it a draw and not losing, is you lose no rating.

You really hope this never​goes anywhere as you're clearly serving your own interests and only your own. You represent the farmer. The PvP bullies of GvG. Can't compete with anyone strong, so you bully those unwilling or too weak to defend. This I gather from prior post you made in this forum about your weekly earnings and that of your GvG team. People like you milking the RP cow as you do will only strengthen the support of my idea. Those who you repeatedly farm every seven days are coming to the table, and supporting me. OMG you may not be able to profit farming weak guilds in GvG by 700+ fsp weekly. I'm sure the global community has tears in their eyes for you...the violin's are playing. Watch it fly. You hooked up wings, keep it coming

Edited by Ryebred, 07 May 2017 - 11:27.


#144 Chooma123

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 12:22

After you complained so much about personal attacks in this thread, im surprised you come out with a response like this. Your response also shows you clearly haven't really read my responses, as I would LOVE to see something like this go through, just not with the current tweaks it has. Yes I "represent" the farmer, like you "represent" the GvG focused guilds.

 

I think to say we can't compete with anyone strong is a bit of a personal attack rather than something you truly believe, as I said before we can compete with anyone except GvG focused guilds (as explained before, due to resources e.g buffing for defences ect...).

 

Moving on to this idea of "bullying"

bully1
ˈbʊli/
verb
gerund or present participle: bullying
  1. use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something.
    "a local man was bullied into helping them"

The difference between bullying and farming is that any guild we attack, has amble opportunity to attack back. "Too Weak", are you kidding me? We literally have ungeared people in our guild who have not logged on for days, don't come out with that. If a guild can't muster together a gvg set or 2 and a few buffs, I'd question if its viable for them to remain as a guild. They don't defend because they don't want to. Farming RP is a simple way to make easy FSP, don't paint me or my guild out as the bad guys - I didn't make GvG what it is today. 

 

Next, let's see who has supported your idea, either partially, or wholly:

Ladyjenks - Member of a top GvG guild

Josh1404 - Member of TED, I don't think they GvG much but they certainly aren't farmed lol

Melons -  Member of a top GvG guild

Me (as long as changes are made xD) - "Farmer"

Pythia - Unclear on their stance, only suggested changes edit: seems in support, member of PoC, we hit them a bit so at a push if you wanted too, you could call them "farmed" (although they still have pretty decent rating)

yotwehc - Unclear on their stance, only suggested changes

Siddy - who knows, who cares  :P tongue.png tongue.png

Leos3000 - I think he is leaning towards supporting it, Member of MoM,  I don't think they GvG much but they certainly aren't farmed lol

Tastria - Unclear on stance, only suggested changes

Badpenny - In support, member of SA, I guess you could call them "farmed" although they defend quite a bit

lapdragon - unclear on stance, suggested changes, member of top GvG guild so probably in favour of your changes anyway

activeh1 - didn't have much to say, doesn't seem to bothered if there are changes or not, member of a new guild that has never GvGed

Brice - supports your idea, member of a top GvG guild

midgetmanj - supports your idea, member of a top GvG guild (wants FURTHER REWARDS FOR TOP GUILDS HM I WONDER WHY)

wazzimoto - supports your idea, member of a top GvG guild

KitiaraLi - supports you idea, Member of TED, I don't think they GvG much but they certainly aren't farmed lol

subject1 - supports your idea, Member of a top GvG guild

Kittles - supports your idea, member of a top GvG guild

Spider - supports your idea...oh shock..wait this can't be right...hes a member of a top GvG guild

wil72 - unclear on his stance, seems to defend your points though so probably supports, member of a that is not farmed

catsmasher - supports your idea, member of IDW, this is the first guild I would clearly label as "farmed" (although again they fight back sometimes)

DragonDave - supports your idea, member of WGS - not a farmed guild (in truth we hit them a lot but they almost always defend)

 

So now if we look at your point, and i quote: "Those who you repeatedly farm every seven days are coming to the table, and supporting me" 

I have to ask Where is your support from these guilds?

 

In fact, the VAST MAJORITY of your support is EXCLUSIVELY FROM THE TOP 3 GVG GUILDS, and we both know why, even though you won't admit it. Your system in its current form is merely a construct for you to get something extra off being one of the top gvg guilds, as I said before, the rich get richer.

Out of those that support you on this thread, a maximum of 3 people who are part of "farmed" guilds support you, so I have to ask why do you make up lies in your response already filled with personal attacks? Why can't you just address my point and admit this system is purely for your benefit. 

 

Is there a problem with RP farming? Sure. This isn't the way to solve it. 

Do I hope this never goes anywhere? No. Just needs some minor tweaks.

 

Lastly, lets talk about your idea of draws. First lets look at some examples of "draws" in real life, go read this link, I don't need to type it https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Tie_(draw)

 

In the competitive mind, draws are not as bad as losses, in fact, draws are fine, it means nothing happens and you walk away with some RP. If two guilds do the exact same thing, and return all hits evenly, why does one get rewarded while the other is punished? Ridiculous thing to say, so why would you? Is it because this directly benefits you, as nobody can defend against GvG focused guilds, thus increasing your gains? Surely not no, Its because of farmers!!Im being sarcastic

 

anyway your move, please try to come back with an actual response to my ideas laid out, as oppose  to playing the "farm" card. And as you said before, lets not use personal attacks, Im not a kid and I don't really want to talk with one =)



#145 BadPenny

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 15:08

TL;DR


Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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#146 Ryebred

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 17:10

Rather then quote all that again, just posting fresh. You Chooma are in what a top 15 guild, yet through your own admittance you are unable to compete with the dedicated what is it 3. This idea I have is to bolster the number of "top guilds". I personally would of been fueled to change perception, not insulted. Take all prizes from top three, award them to 4-10. Our reward comes in knowing we are where we are through hard work, and pride driven teamwork. Are you happy now. Stick those rewards, they were incentive, but being real we are just too good I guess not to be In The top, and that is broken. Don't reward us for our efforts, I personally don't care. I'm sorry I'm only 16 years old, sometimes I can come off very childish. We have lost 65 times, so many have accomplished the impossible, but those days are over. Only a couple other guilds in game can do it now, with God or luck on their side. So now that the top three will no longer receive anything as I see it....maybe we should have to pay more too, but receiving nothing is a good start. Isn't this the best idea for you. You can certainly break the top ten. Ties are losses, won't budge on that. Take a few polls on the support range, you'll be surprised I think.

#147 Melons

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 18:14

Why can't you just address my point and admit this system is purely for your benefit. 

I think you are misunderstanding Rye's post. He is wanting to increase participation and competition in a system that has been dead for years. Let me give you a real-life example. Wal-mart, the top retailer globally. The system changes and consumers flock to e-commerce. This increases competition and along comes Amazon taking Wal-mart's profits. As you can see, when the system changed, the increased competition hurt Wal-mart. It's the same application here. Increased competition hurts the top three guilds. I really wanted to reap the benefits, then I would ask the cows to leave the current system but add rewards for the top three GvG guilds. 

 

Looks like you are the GvG leader in your guild. So, I assume you participate in GvGs often. Would you not like more participation and competition? Or it is the latter that you do not like?

 

By the way, just because I'm in a top GvG guild doesn't mean I blindly support his topic. I asked for some clarification and changes early on.


Edited by Melons, 07 May 2017 - 18:16.


#148 Chooma123

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 18:56

As I have said before, of course I would like more participation, and more competition. However you have to understand that the system presented would not do this, rather lower participation. Im not going to bother to explain this again, because you have either not read my previous posts or just simply don't agree with me, which is fine...

 

For me to support this idea, changes have to be made thats all:

- Your pride is irrelevant, draws are not losses

- Ladder - esque system to give all guilds a chance to compete for top rewards 

- New RP items would double pvp activity overnight 



#149 BadPenny

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 21:14

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Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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~Love, Penny

 

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#150 activeh1

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 05:41

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nice


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#151 activeh1

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 06:47

After you complained so much about personal attacks in this thread, im surprised you come out with a response like this. Your response also shows you clearly haven't really read my responses, as I would LOVE to see something like this go through, just not with the current tweaks it has. Yes I "represent" the farmer, like you "represent" the GvG focused guilds.

 

I think to say we can't compete with anyone strong is a bit of a personal attack rather than something you truly believe, as I said before we can compete with anyone except GvG focused guilds (as explained before, due to resources e.g buffing for defences ect...).

 

Moving on to this idea of "bullying"

bully1
ˈbʊli/
verb
gerund or present participle: bullying
  1. use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something.
    "a local man was bullied into helping them"

The difference between bullying and farming is that any guild we attack, has amble opportunity to attack back. "Too Weak", are you kidding me? We literally have ungeared people in our guild who have not logged on for days, don't come out with that. If a guild can't muster together a gvg set or 2 and a few buffs, I'd question if its viable for them to remain as a guild. They don't defend because they don't want to. Farming RP is a simple way to make easy FSP, don't paint me or my guild out as the bad guys - I didn't make GvG what it is today. 

 

Next, let's see who has supported your idea, either partially, or wholly:

Ladyjenks - Member of a top GvG guild

Josh1404 - Member of TED, I don't think they GvG much but they certainly aren't farmed lol

Melons -  Member of a top GvG guild

Me (as long as changes are made xD) - "Farmer"

Pythia - Unclear on their stance, only suggested changes edit: seems in support, member of PoC, we hit them a bit so at a push if you wanted too, you could call them "farmed" (although they still have pretty decent rating)

yotwehc - Unclear on their stance, only suggested changes

Siddy - who knows, who cares  :P tongue.png tongue.png

Leos3000 - I think he is leaning towards supporting it, Member of MoM,  I don't think they GvG much but they certainly aren't farmed lol

Tastria - Unclear on stance, only suggested changes

Badpenny - In support, member of SA, I guess you could call them "farmed" although they defend quite a bit

lapdragon - unclear on stance, suggested changes, member of top GvG guild so probably in favour of your changes anyway

activeh1 - didn't have much to say, doesn't seem to bothered if there are changes or not, member of a new guild that has never GvGed

Brice - supports your idea, member of a top GvG guild

midgetmanj - supports your idea, member of a top GvG guild (wants FURTHER REWARDS FOR TOP GUILDS HM I WONDER WHY)

wazzimoto - supports your idea, member of a top GvG guild

KitiaraLi - supports you idea, Member of TED, I don't think they GvG much but they certainly aren't farmed lol

subject1 - supports your idea, Member of a top GvG guild

Kittles - supports your idea, member of a top GvG guild

Spider - supports your idea...oh shock..wait this can't be right...hes a member of a top GvG guild

wil72 - unclear on his stance, seems to defend your points though so probably supports, member of a that is not farmed

catsmasher - supports your idea, member of IDW, this is the first guild I would clearly label as "farmed" (although again they fight back sometimes)

DragonDave - supports your idea, member of WGS - not a farmed guild (in truth we hit them a lot but they almost always defend)

 

So now if we look at your point, and i quote: "Those who you repeatedly farm every seven days are coming to the table, and supporting me" 

I have to ask Where is your support from these guilds?

 

In fact, the VAST MAJORITY of your support is EXCLUSIVELY FROM THE TOP 3 GVG GUILDS, and we both know why, even though you won't admit it. Your system in its current form is merely a construct for you to get something extra off being one of the top gvg guilds, as I said before, the rich get richer.

Out of those that support you on this thread, a maximum of 3 people who are part of "farmed" guilds support you, so I have to ask why do you make up lies in your response already filled with personal attacks? Why can't you just address my point and admit this system is purely for your benefit. 

 

Is there a problem with RP farming? Sure. This isn't the way to solve it. 

Do I hope this never goes anywhere? No. Just needs some minor tweaks.

 

Lastly, lets talk about your idea of draws. First lets look at some examples of "draws" in real life, go read this link, I don't need to type it https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Tie_(draw)

 

In the competitive mind, draws are not as bad as losses, in fact, draws are fine, it means nothing happens and you walk away with some RP. If two guilds do the exact same thing, and return all hits evenly, why does one get rewarded while the other is punished? Ridiculous thing to say, so why would you? Is it because this directly benefits you, as nobody can defend against GvG focused guilds, thus increasing your gains? Surely not no, Its because of farmers!!Im being sarcastic

 

anyway your move, please try to come back with an actual response to my ideas laid out, as oppose  to playing the "farm" card. And as you said before, lets not use personal attacks, Im not a kid and I don't really want to talk with one =)

well said

 

its true i dont care as i will never gvg ,but i can still have my say ,do theses guilds u farm enjoy being farmed  ?? or are they just dead guilds when people log in every 3 days so they dont go inactive ??

 

but hey like i said dont care either way but i read what was written above and  tend to agree


Edited by activeh1, 09 May 2017 - 06:50.

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#152 BadPenny

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 11:36

Just being the devil's advocate here, but that little list up there basically subsists of those who are active ON THE FORUM.  Few come here of late, not like the old days when it was our primary form of interguild communication.  I estimate roughly 15% of the FS community comes here and comments ever.  So for the debate to be limited to mostly those from ACTIVE GvG guilds cannot be surprising to anyone.  

 

To really gauge who cares or doesn't care about Rye's proposal, more people need to throw in their 2 cents.  I suggest we all have people at least come read the thread (I have done so, of the people I spoke to, many have come and read, none have commented, one being on strike, the rest uninterested in GvG as a whole.)  

 

Whether this idea or something completely different are implemented, GvG definitely needs a shot in the arm.  I think we can all agree on that.   


Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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~Love, Penny

 

Have you hugged your Quango lately?


#153 Spider0007

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 12:47

I miss the good old GvG days when you didn't need a partner to gvg.. GvG was active back then... but ey what can i say oldies are goodies ;) ...

I agree! Having the ability to complete 1/2 the hits or less can be very frustrating and certainly slowed down GvG across all guilds. I would not be opposed to reverting back to the "gold old GvG days" myself.

 


Spider - supports your idea...oh shock..wait this can't be right...hes a member of a top GvG guild

If you had comprehended what I wrote, perhaps you would have realized that I am not in full support of this idea but rather adding it as an addition to the current GvG rating system as a tournament style of play. Much like the PvP seasons that could occur occasionally and breath life back into this aspect of the game.  Adding Rye's idea in this manner might possibly take care of your concerns and others.



#154 Chooma123

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 16:01

Just being the devil's advocate here, but that little list up there basically subsists of those who are active ON THE FORUM.  Few come here of late, not like the old days when it was our primary form of interguild communication.  I estimate roughly 15% of the FS community comes here and comments ever.  So for the debate to be limited to mostly those from ACTIVE GvG guilds cannot be surprising to anyone.  

 

To really gauge who cares or doesn't care about Rye's proposal, more people need to throw in their 2 cents.  I suggest we all have people at least come read the thread (I have done so, of the people I spoke to, many have come and read, none have commented, one being on strike, the rest uninterested in GvG as a whole.)  

 

Whether this idea or something completely different are implemented, GvG definitely needs a shot in the arm.  I think we can all agree on that.   

Your right, although Im afraid I can't read minds to post the thoughts of those who don't comment on the subject xdd



#155 Chooma123

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 16:04

If you had comprehended what I wrote, perhaps you would have realized that I am not in full support of this idea but rather adding it as an addition to the current GvG rating system as a tournament style of play. Much like the PvP seasons that could occur occasionally and breath life back into this aspect of the game.  Adding Rye's idea in this manner might possibly take care of your concerns and others.

"I really like the ideas and system you have developed Rye. I think anything that would breathe life back into GvG would be an overall positive for the game. "

You added a suggestion, but you seem pretty happy with the idea, therefore in support



#156 Spider0007

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 17:02

You seem to be pushing a single agenda and justifying it anyway you can including taking partial quotes and turning them into whatever pushes said agenda forward. I have zero respect for you or your RP farming needs and quotas.



#157 BigGrim

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 17:04

Can we please keep things civil?

 

~ Grim



#158 Chooma123

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 17:23

You seem to be pushing a single agenda and justifying it anyway you can including taking partial quotes and turning them into whatever pushes said agenda forward. I have zero respect for you or your RP farming needs and quotas.

Of course im pushing my agenda, isn't that the point of this thread, to discuss your thoughts? 

 

"I really like the ideas and system you have developed Rye. I think anything that would breathe life back into GvG would be an overall positive for the game. Without any feedback from admin, its hard to tell if this will gain any traction. The cows seem to avoid these types of threads for some reason.

My suggestion to this whole topic is rather than replacing the current gvg system and rating, perhaps this would be more beneficial to be an addition to it. I could see this type of "tournament" being easily setup as a type of Global event, or Seasonal event that all guilds would have the opportunity to participate in periodically throughout the year. Maybe 1-2 times a year. Perhaps even bringing back PvP seasons at the same time would fun!"

Theres your full quote, the meaning of what I said doesn't change


Edited by BigGrim, 09 May 2017 - 17:25.
Flame bait removed.


#159 Mzzery

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 18:46

I like the ideas suggested in the initial post. I've not bothered reading the rest, since it seems there's been some efforts made to derail the topic, and I don't feel the urge to read trolling posts.

 

Anyway... I like your ideas Rye, so...

 

+1 from me :)



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#160 Chooma123

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 19:51

derail the thread or debate it? All I've tried to do is debate it but for these people everything I type is a direct insult and automatically incorrect without any response

 

anyway Im done with this thread now, I tried but it seems people just arent up for it




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