14 replies to this topic

[ZeusIV]

Doing a bit of questing today and was reminded of this stupid English you have all over the quests.

 

If an npc needs something they can say 'Bring me x'

If an npc wants you to take something and give it to another npc then the word is 'Take' NOT 'Bring'

If an npc wants you to collect something and give it to another npc then the word is 'Take' NOT 'Bring'

 

Hell's bells and buckets of blood, this is simple English and you have it wrong all over the place!!!!!!!

Edited by Anakiro, 29 September 2014 - 09:21.
Language

[redsmokeboy]

Understand there not US English there British english, very in wording as from US english.

[Irradiated]

Zeus is correct, at least regarding proper English.  Can't say how the quests are worded though.  As one of the most misused word pairs, I don't even notice anymore and probably interchange them myself.

 

The rule is, from the perspective of the speaker:

Bring it here, take it there

 

If the object is moving toward the speaker's current location, bring.  Away from the speaker's current location, take. 

"Bring me 15 things"

"Take these to him"

"I'll bring it back later"

"I'll take it with me"

 

(Confirmed on both the Grammar Girl and BBC websites.)

Edited by Irradiated, 19 September 2014 - 04:02.

[Anakiro]

I would agree that it does sound a little off. However, given how much text we have in the game and how many quests/stages it would be incredibly helpful if you could give me specific quests to go and look at. We have a typos thread stickied here in the bug forum where typos and grammatical errors tend to be posted.

[ZeusIV]

I was so bored I went questing in the Sirunax Void and most of them there are fetch and carry quests like that. The worst culprits are the 3 guys  near the door who are too lazy to pass things to the guy stood next to them and get you to 'bring' it to him.

The guy in the middle near the totem wants me to 'bring' his report to the guy hiding behind the rock near the slaves etc

A quick gander at those quests and you will metaphorically be hearing the sounds of fingernails being scratched down a blackboard

The one I am currently on (not the best example) called No Escape 2/7 'Bring the poison components to Shadow Drysdale.' Although in the text he asks me to bring him components this title text should be 'take'.

[Anakiro]

Okay, I'll take a look through that quest book and see about correcting those. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[ZeusIV]

Like i said "All over the place". Right at the beginning!

This should be take. I have the painting, it is not at Sabina's place, it is my quest book, the book doesn't belong nor is at Sabina's place. The word is "take"!

[Bryn]

Okay, I'll take a look through that quest book and see about correcting those. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

I think he is taking it to your attention

[Anakiro]

So, having discussed it with a few other folk in the office, this is what we're thinking.

 

It's acceptable to instruct someone to bring something to someone. "Bring cake to the party" is the same sentence structure as "Bring ten Wisp Essences to Major Dodds". I would say the first one sounds right, so it follows that the second sounds right too.

 

I've been through the Shards in the Night questbook as well as A Study in Blood and changed the brings to takes where appropriate. However, since I see this as being a six vs. half a dozen kind of situation I won't be looking into it further. If you find a specific example then I will be happy to have a look at it. However, it's too much of a time sink to go through the whole game looking for this as it's an acceptable usage the way it is now.

[livingtarget]

Doing a bit of questing today and was reminded of this stupid English you have all over the quests.

 

If an npc needs something they can say 'Bring me x'

If an npc wants you to take something and give it to another npc then the word is 'Take' NOT 'Bring'

If an npc wants you to collect something and give it to another npc then the word is 'Take' NOT 'Bring'

 

Hell's bells and buckets of blood, this is simple English and you have it wrong all over the place!!!!!!!

 

Please don't use phrases like retarded English. Firstly it's offensive, please refrain from using that language, and secondly you in fact mean bad American English. In British grammar this is perfectly acceptable.

 

From the Cambridge dictionary: "Bring means moving something or someone. The movement is either from where the listener is to where the speaker is, or from the speaker to the listener."

[ZeusIV]

So, having discussed it with a few other folk in the office, this is what we're thinking.

 

It's acceptable to instruct someone to bring something to someone. "Bring cake to the party" is the same sentence structure as "Bring ten Wisp Essences to Major Dodds". I would say the first one sounds right, so it follows that the second sounds right too.

This is the problem because they are not the same at all. X is having a party at her house so she says "Bring cake to the party"  This is perfectly fine. It is her party therefore she wants me to get a cake from where i am and bring it to her. She is saying in effect bring something to me.

The sentence "Bring ten Wisp Essences to Major Dodds" can only be right if the person saying it is at the same place as Major Dods. If the questbook is like a personal diary then you would write in it Take ten... It is first person (me) who is not where Major Dods is. If it is like a third person then that third person (not being anywhere in particular) would say Take ten... The chances of that third person being actually where Major Dods is are infinity to 1. And if they are where Major Dods is then all other instructions in other quests  must be wrong because they are where Major Dods is so it has to be Take.

I've been through the Shards in the Night questbook as well as A Study in Blood and changed the brings to takes where appropriate. However, since I see this as being a six vs. half a dozen kind of situation.

This is not a matter of opinion in the office or down the local pub type thing. The rule is very simple. As Irradiated pointed out it is 

The rule is, from the perspective of the speaker:

Bring it here, take it there

[ZeusIV]

Please don't use phrases like retarded English. Firstly it's offensive, please refrain from using that language, and secondly you in fact mean bad American English.

Offensive to whom? The adjective retarded means "stupid or foolish" according to dictionary.com so is the word "stupid" offensive to someone?

I wasn't inferring that this problems was from any language group in particular. Certainly not English or American English although possibly Scottish or Scouse.

 

In British grammar this is perfectly acceptable.

 

From the Cambridge dictionary: "Bring means moving something or someone. The movement is either from where the listener is to where the speaker is, or from the speaker to the listener."

 

Quite. It is the same rule in both English and American English. To use your example of Major Dods. It is not Major Dods speaking to me it is the Book. Now do you see what i mean?

[Irradiated]

I love grammar, and can't resist weighing in again on a couple of points.

 

On the main topic, "bring vs. take (vs. get)", mistakes actually add flavor to the game.  In real life, these words are confused all the time.  Most people aren't even aware of the distinction.  And even those that are, such as myself, make occasional mistakes when conversing.  I'd expect it used correctly if reading an internal Arcane Council memo, but don't object to mistakes in conversation.

 

Regarding "A Study in Blood".  The real mistake is the word "back" in the main text.  Sabina never had it, therefore there is no bringing, taking, or getting it "back".  Again, such a common error in real life I never would have noticed had it not been for this thread.

 

Using "Bring" in the title sounds wrong to me.  But I really don't know how the rule works, what is the location of the 'narrator'.  Also, see the paragraph two up.  It's not formal writing here.

 

Regarding "get vs. take" (not "bring vs. take") in the main text, I had to look this one up.  The rule is flexible depending on context.  In the context of delivering an object to a third person, "take it to" means direct action, "get it to" means insuring the person receives it by any method, direct action or Fed Ex is fine (they do deliver everywhere, correct? ).  Using "take" might be more clear as that is the only way for Sabina to receive the painting, but "get" encompasses "take" so either is fine.  ("bring" would have been incorrect due to the above stated rule.)

 

(Talk about a fantasy.  A land where everyone uses correct grammar and spelling all the time.  No chat speak or "1337".  It could be boring, but personally I think it would be g8 .)

 

One last point for Zeus.  You are correct, nothing wrong with the term 'retarded' by dictionary definition.  It is a shame when this happens to a perfectly good word.  But, in the U.S. at least, 'retarded' has become a slang insult and therefore no longer used in regular conversation.

Edited by Irradiated, 29 September 2014 - 18:43.

[ZeusIV]

Regarding "A Study in Blood".  The real mistake is the word "back" in the main text.  Sabina never had it, therefore there is no bringing, taking, or getting it "back".  Again, such a common error in real life I never would have noticed had it not been for this thread.

Yeh good point

 

Using "Bring" in the title sounds wrong to me.  But I really don't know how the rule works, what is the location of the 'narrator'.  Also, see the paragraph two up.  It's not formal writing here.

 

Regarding "get vs. take" (not "bring vs. take") in the main text, I had to look this one up.  The rule is flexible depending on context.  In the context of delivering an object to a third person, "take it to" means direct action, "get it to" means insuring the person receives it by any method, direct action or Fed Ex is fine

Take, get, carry, deliver, anything but 'bring'

(I was under the impression i was working for El Ex with all the fetching and carrying i was doing in this game )

 

One last point for Zeus.  You are correct, nothing wrong with the term 'retarded' by dictionary definition.  It is a shame when this happens to a perfectly good word.  But, in the U.S. at least, 'retarded' has become a slang insult and therefore no longer used in regular conversation.

 

Yeh pity that. A bit like 'spaz' which now seems to be acceptable as people who used to be called spastics and now better known as physically handicapped (and now cool, bladerunner) and something that is spaz is just a useless object. Or gay which means happy, was held hostage by the same sex relationship people, and now means something crappy, pants or spaz which is quite opposite to its meaning but at least some can use it without being called an 'ist' or a 'phobe' (precede by appropriate word)

People get far too upset by words because the PC Brigade have brainwashed them into thinking they are 'wrong'.

Bit like the N-word, P-word, S-word or C-word, all are just words but some people have decided they are 'wrong' and demand to be outraged. Kazakhstan is where the Kazakhs come from, Uzbekistan is where the Uzbeks come from, Afghanistan is where the Afghans come from but one can't say Pakistan is where the P***s come from without receiving a tirade of abuse from the PC Brigade. The C-word was used liberally by Shakespear and describes a wonderful thing but try and use it in polite conversation...

In another thread it was suggested that saying that Gypsies steal things was racist but in most fairy stories that is what they do. The same as Trolls troll in the shadows, Elves seduce people and Dwarves are short stumpy people (ahem people of a vertically challenged nature.)

People should be more tolerant and not assume the worst about people (unless they are dirty thieving Magpies in which case it is ok  )

Edited by ZeusIV, 30 September 2014 - 11:54.

[Fizban]

I have a Pakistani friend who put his name in my Phone suffixed with the 'P' word, as my phone speaks the name of the caller, it can be difficult explaining to people who put the name there, also the street speak for good (Sick?) is humorous, last time i saw someone projectile vomiting, it wasn't good for the person, the carpet or for the persons wife who had to clean up, unless sick as in unwell but still can't be good. as for something being bad (sucks) my vacuum cleaner must be bad then because it sucks hard, and Dysons must be up there with the worst 

Edited by Kezza, 30 September 2014 - 12:53.