88 replies to this topic

[Mysticalme]

Not sure if it will be useful, but what about a "whirlwind" attack option? Something like the target whole square with spells.

Thats actually a cool idea!

[Debrutsid]

Super ultra awesome PvP skill so I can kill mages 1/5th my level. For once.

.... pssst, it's called the 'Attack' attribute.

Why should I have to vial up to beat a Mage 1/5th my level that isn't vialed? Sure the vials are
great for warrior
hunting but ever since I've played mages had the edge on heads up pvp.

[drillbeast]

Shauthra, Excelent point! I've added 11,000 levels and am quite happy with the results, But I hope you'll agree Thump penalty reduction is a good idea, I always cursed the 35%/25% to hit penalty, and megathump cant hurt either

[Howard The Duck]

Super ultra awesome PvP skill so I can kill mages 1/5th my level. For once.

.... pssst, it's called the 'Attack' attribute.

Why should I have to vial up to beat a Mage 1/5th my level that isn't vialed? Sure the vials are
great for warrior
hunting but ever since I've played mages had the edge on heads up pvp.

hrmm, if you had more attack you wouldnt have that problem, unvialed i can take on most mages, and the ones that are vialed i take a simple aeon vial and they dont stand a chance, not sure what your alls issue with them is, if you didnt put so much into dmg, and threw a few into att then you would be able to hit them quite nicely.

[Debrutsid]

I have zero, yes zero input into defense as I have UT and I still have to vial to kill mages half my size. My point is WHY do I need a vial to kill a Mage half my size? Balance would mean 50% chance to take out a Mage my size if neither or both of us is vialed. Perhaps 25% to kill the other if one of us was built for PvP. Also I think the person swinging should have a slight edge over the person retaliating. To also add to the balance of the game I think
there should be a circle of edge where water beats fire beats wood beats wind beats earth beats cold beats water. Water would be Titan, fire demon, wind angel, wood elf, earth undead, shadow cold. This would create a lot of interesting pairings in PvP.

[Mysticalme]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Moi here. And I have been an attack whore lately but I still have trouble with some mages half my size. Its been that way for as long as I can remember. If my mage was subbed (will be after the 1st of the year I hope) I would invite you to a little set to and show you just how bad it can be. Not 6 months ago she could still kick my arse!

[Debrutsid]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Moi here. And I have been an attack whore lately but I still have trouble with some mages half my size. Its been that way for as long as I can remember. If my mage was subbed (will be after the 1st of the year I hope) I would invite you to a little set to and show you just how bad it can be. Not 6 months ago she could still kick my arse!

Afraid? I'm just a little Lich!

[Debrutsid]

If you really want to build a warrior for PvP vs. mages, don't build AC, put it all into HP, have your full resistance gear on, and make sure your attack is high enough to hit them. You won't be built to level nearly as efficiently, but you'll have no problem PvPing like sized mages.

Yes, I know HOW. But I don't want to restart my character that was started before there was such thing as magery. And that part about leveling efficiently pretty much seals the deal. You'd have to sacrifice bouchou level ups right now to be able to pvp mages that are built the same way they would be if warriors didn't exist. Warriors should be able to build with the same regard. In my opinion, building a warrior for PvP should give you
an edge, not a snowballs chance.

[Mysticalme]

If you really want to build a warrior for PvP vs. mages, don't build AC, put it all into HP, have your full resistance gear on, and make sure your attack is high enough to hit them. You won't be built to level nearly as efficiently, but you'll have no problem PvPing like sized mages.

Thats easy to say when you joined 3 years after we did. Things have changed a LOT since 'the land before time.'

[Debrutsid]

I can't wait to get to a computer and shotgun blast this retarded garbage.

[Debrutsid]

I have zero, yes zero input into defense as I have UT and I still have to vial to kill mages half my size.

That makes no sense at all. How would your defense protect you from sorcery?

You can't. Which I believe is one of the points we're making. Let me check. Yep, sure is. But if you add to defense, or any other attribute besides ATK or DMG you lose effectiveness to level. HP, though it does not protect against sorcery, may increase one's ability to survive a sorcery attack. You are familiar with HP, yes?

Balance would mean 50% chance to take out a Mage my size if neither or both of us is vialed. Perhaps 25% to kill the other if one of us was built for PvP.

What do you consider to be a "Mage your size"? Certainly not a mage of the same level- It takes much more AP to get a mage to the same level as a warrior. Perhaps then, given that there are more wariors than mages, the #1 mage should be able to kill the # 1 and #2 warrior 50% of the time, and vice versa? Don't worry about having to equip resistances, or putting a bunch of level ups into HP for warriors. And how pray tell does a mage build for PvP? I can level my defence, but that only protects me from attack. A warrior is able to actively level his or her attack, as has been pointed out twice or so in this thread. Maybe if mages could level anti-res it would be comparable, but we cannot.

A mage my size. Hrmm, I don't know, someone that's maybe at least 2/3rds of my level. That would suffice in comparison to a mage that's 1/5th my level that would still whollop me PvP if I was in my hunting gear or even attack gear. How does a mage build for PvP? Let me ask if you remember a mage called Ax. Was top PvP for longer than Sephidroth or Capadocous. Don't want to level defense? Don't. Put your levels into MP so you can level more efficiently. A mage will inevitably win out over a warrior every time. If we level attack we lose the chance to level damage. I'm not sure if you realize you can only put a level up point down once. It would be fantastic if I got 1 level and could add 1 to damage and 1 to attack. Perhaps if damage was similar to wisdom, however it is not. A mage gets an increase to their equivalent to damage each time they teleport, heal, attack without killing, etc. Warriors do not have such a luxury.

Also I think the person swinging should have a slight edge over the person retaliating.

They absolutely do. If they kill first, they win.

Doesn't do much good to retal against someone you can't hit. Or try to swing at someone else in a PvP realm that you can't hit.

To also add to the balance of the game I think
there should be a circle of edge where water beats fire beats wood beats wind beats earth beats cold beats water. Water would be Titan, fire demon, wind angel, wood elf, earth undead, shadow cold. This would create a lot of interesting pairings in PvP.

This is Gothador. Rock, paper, scissors will be held at 14:45 during recess.

Fantastic. Everyone and their mother is calling for balance, yet when someone brings up one of the oldest forms of historic balance in the entire world, you decide it's childish. Perhaps you should brush up on Eastern philosophy. It's been around since Jesus was a Corporal.

Yes, I know HOW. But I don't want to restart my character that was started before there was such thing as magery. And that part about leveling efficiently pretty much seals the deal.

10 000 level ups into attack, and you'd be able to kill most. Sure, it will cost your xp/ap, but you have a choice, and mages do not.

You contradict yourself in less lines than a coke addict preacher.

You'd have to sacrifice bouchou level ups right now to be able to pvp mages that are built the same way they would be if warriors didn't exist.

Huh? Look at the top huntables. Attack is less than 20K. My base is 31K, and I couldn't compete with some of the warriors around when I was playing. I don't want to waste levels in D, I'd rather have them in MP, so I didn't have to hit a mana shrine every dozen kills or so. I lose a ton of AP each time I hunt because I had to put useless levels into D to guard against poor, disadvantaged warriors.

In my opinion, building a warrior for PvP should give you
an edge, not a snowballs chance.

There you have it. The final word. If a warrior should so choose, he or she should be better able to kill a mage, should they build for it. Truth is, that is the current case. So, this offends on two levels: One, that it is actually possible, and two, that the uninspired, unwashed and low functioning should expect such a thing.

Offends? Sir, I do protest. There will be no doubt when I am offensive, and it will be far wittier than this "rhetoric" you're trying to pass as valid. A warrior built for PvP should be even against a mage that is built for PvP. A warrior that is built for PvP should have the edge against a mage and warrior built to level. A mage built for PvP should have the same edge.

Now, while Moirai and MM spend the next week trying to figure this all out, we could propose a system like this where mages and warriors of a comparable level (skill or otherwise) were able to kill each other equitably. Problem is, that it would negate the idea of resistances as well as HP, and so it would only benefit the sub-par; again, Moirai and MM.

Since MM and I are warriors and we seem to have a more viable place in the Darwinism of Gothador, perhaps the sub-par is related to one's pocketbook rather than ability to allocate time and budget AP. We, however, are still going; still invested in a game where we input our opinions and knowledge. Instead of clinging vehemently to a past glory. Maybe since there's 2 of us it will take less than a week to figure this all out, while in your drunken stupor you've began to ramble, but continue to berate the person rather than pit flaws in the ideas.

I don't think mages in general are opposed to the threat of PvP, it is just that if you are hunting, you don't want to attract a cloud of gnats around you, following you here and there, especially in xp loss realms. One of the big failings of the current PvP system, in my opinion, is that if you lose the initial confrontation, you may continue to attack without penaly for the next three days. So, the lesser may attack without fear of loss , knowing that if they lose first, they will lose a small amount of PvP points, and if the get lucky sometime in the next hour, they'll get that back, plus interest.

This favors warriors how?

Anyhoo, just your average Saturday night rum rant. Maybe someday they'll fix the mage/ warrior imbalance, and I can post constructively, instead of lambasting the ignorant.

I wouldn't go so far as to claim this was average. Sub-par at best.

[Debrutsid]

out of boredom,i decided to read the long posts and noticed something along the lines of "how does a mage build for PvP exactly" or something like that,well,usually,when a mage decides s/he wants to build up for a big pvp person,they usually cut back on their MP a bit,increaseing atk,usually increaseing their def as they would to lvl,sometimes a bit more,but of course,that sets them at a disadvantage because they need to go back and heal their MP more often than normal while hunting,but it is their choice to build that way,orrrr,they would be smart and become either an elf (so they cant be located) or undead (for their unholy terror) so that they dont need as much def.

(now lets see how many complaints i get :mrgreen: )

:idea: *gasps* :idea: Oh nose. Are you saying that if they so choose they can sacrifice one attribute to be better at PvP? This is a travesty. The by-laws of magery state that it is impossible to be good at PvP. According to some that is. :roll:

TBA- EXACTLY! This was my succinct point when I was speaking of Ax. Thanks for elaborating for the masses that may not be familiar with him.

[Howard The Duck]

the reason the rest of you warriors cant kill mages half your size is you dont want to sacrafice a few dmg for a few attack, i have been ever since i hit lvl 25k an effective mage killer of mages 3 times my size and now there is not a mage in the game i cant kill, keeping in mind i have been able to kill all mages in game when i was lvl 50k. and dont sit there and say it takes alot of attack to do this, because i had only a 14k base attack until the soul kraken was released and i started putting more into it. ok so you have to lose say 4k base dmg, thats only 40k vialed dmg if not less then that. for an extra what 14-20k vialed attack. i mean come on its not that hard to do, place points here instead of there. i have lost on a few occassions to mages but very rarely, and it was usually because i wasnt on the right vial to pvp with them, where as now it doesnt matter. basically if your going to bitch about not being able to kill mages its because you havent built your char properly to kill them. and if you have then you just plain dont know how to pvp. whats even more funny i find about this is my 20k miner can kill my 35k mage, but a 40k-50k warrior can not. its not because the mage has a high def. because he only has a 36k def vialed atm. itsd because the warriors only want to put into dmg to be able to hunt effectively. so to the rest of you warrior who want to complain about dying at the hands of a mage put forth the effort and put your points into attack and then you might have a snowballs chance. otherwise quit your bitching, its your fault you cant kill them.

[Debrutsid]

the reason the rest of you warriors cant kill mages half your size is you dont want to sacrafice a few dmg for a few attack, i have been ever since i hit lvl 25k an effective mage killer of mages 3 times my size and now there is not a mage in the game i cant kill, keeping in mind i have been able to kill all mages in game when i was lvl 50k. and dont sit there and say it takes alot of attack to do this, because i had only a 14k base attack until the soul kraken was released and i started putting more into it. ok so you have to lose say 4k base dmg, thats only 40k vialed dmg if not less then that. for an extra what 14-20k vialed attack. i mean come on its not that hard to do, place points here instead of there. i have lost on a few occassions to mages but very rarely, and it was usually because i wasnt on the right vial to pvp with them, where as now it doesnt matter. basically if your going to bitch about not being able to kill mages its because you havent built your char properly to kill them. and if you have then you just plain dont know how to pvp. whats even more funny i find about this is my 20k miner can kill my 35k mage, but a 40k-50k warrior can not. its not because the mage has a high def. because he only has a 36k def vialed atm. itsd because the warriors only want to put into dmg to be able to hunt effectively. so to the rest of you warrior who want to complain about dying at the hands of a mage put forth the effort and put your points into attack and then you might have a snowballs chance. otherwise quit your bitching, its your fault you cant kill them.

Again I'll ask the questions: Why do I need to use a vial to kill a mage? Why do I need to mold my character into a PvP machine to kill a non-PvP built mage? There's a big difference between level 33k and 55k. That's, uh hold on lemme do the math, 22k levels. And while we're at it, why can't a mage kill a warrior when they're vialed? Seems when both are unvialed warriors are the underdog, while when both are vialed the mages get the shaft.

[Howard The Duck]

the reason the rest of you warriors cant kill mages half your size is you dont want to sacrafice a few dmg for a few attack, i have been ever since i hit lvl 25k an effective mage killer of mages 3 times my size and now there is not a mage in the game i cant kill, keeping in mind i have been able to kill all mages in game when i was lvl 50k. and dont sit there and say it takes alot of attack to do this, because i had only a 14k base attack until the soul kraken was released and i started putting more into it. ok so you have to lose say 4k base dmg, thats only 40k vialed dmg if not less then that. for an extra what 14-20k vialed attack. i mean come on its not that hard to do, place points here instead of there. i have lost on a few occassions to mages but very rarely, and it was usually because i wasnt on the right vial to pvp with them, where as now it doesnt matter. basically if your going to bitch about not being able to kill mages its because you havent built your char properly to kill them. and if you have then you just plain dont know how to pvp. whats even more funny i find about this is my 20k miner can kill my 35k mage, but a 40k-50k warrior can not. its not because the mage has a high def. because he only has a 36k def vialed atm. itsd because the warriors only want to put into dmg to be able to hunt effectively. so to the rest of you warrior who want to complain about dying at the hands of a mage put forth the effort and put your points into attack and then you might have a snowballs chance. otherwise quit your bitching, its your fault you cant kill them.

Again I'll ask the questions: Why do I need to use a vial to kill a mage? Why do I need to mold my character into a PvP machine to kill a non-PvP built mage? There's a big difference between level 33k and 55k. That's, uh hold on lemme do the math, 22k levels. And while we're at it, why can't a mage kill a warrior when they're vialed? Seems when both are unvialed warriors are the underdog, while when both are vialed the mages get the shaft.

well it seems to me that either way you look at it you get the shaft, neither my mage nor my warrior have problems in pvp, and neither osiris nor vaprak was really built for pvp, they were both designed to take on any critter in the game, hence why vaprak has such high att now, because soul kraken and gargantuan require high att.
as far as building a warrior to pvp with a mage you dont have to build them to just that, yet for a mage to be successful in pvp with a warrior the mage has to sacrafice alot of mp to put lvls into def and hp if they expect to survive, and they have to put 2 times the amount as a warrior into hp in order to get the same amount of hp as a warrior does. on top of that a warrior hit someone they have a small amount of dmg removed from ac, a mage hits someone and 98 percent on the dmg is absorbed because of resistance. therefore if you want to keep bitching saying warriors are getting shafted why dont you try adding some att, and changing your set so you have a higher res set. then take on a mage and see what happens i gaurantee results will be different then using your normal hunting set, unless you are like me and have a shit ton of attack anyways.
and the difference between lvls doesnt really mean anything because my warrior that was attack based for so long, had very little dmg, but yet when he was only 25k he was killing players that were lvl 45-50k. and yet again i remind you my 20k miner who has a 10 percent attack deficet can still kill my lvl 35k mage and do it with style. its all in how you build the char, you build it right and you can kill pretty much anything, you build it wrong and you cant kill shit.

so now ask yourself this if you built your char right how come you cant kill those mages, yet when i was half your current lvl i had no trouble smacking the crap out of a mage that was 2-3 times my size and most of the time i won.

[Howard The Duck]

what i cant understand is what the heck are warriors moaning about jeez , they( and i dont care what anyone else has to say ) are and have been the favoured class by the gods for over 18 months ... you ever stopped and wondered why mages are a dying breed ? nope coz you dont give a damn about them . get the gods to give you 500% att vials give the mages a miniscule amount hey presto you win we lose ... even and i tell you this in all sincerity bring boots out and put attack on them and crap all def ............ you hunt on 98% resist so me with 20k wiz can hit you for 2k dmg more if i get mana surge and more if i get overcharge all you lot need to do is hit me once with your uber inflated att% and dmg % it doesnt matter one iota if you give me 1000% magic bonus coz we still got to find a way around the 98% resist and the 2 million or so hp that these lovely vials give you .

nah this thread is total bull what warriros need is nothing what so ever apart from maybe items with less att less hp less dmg and god damn - resist .

pray tell me what the heck you got to moan about when mages are getting shafted all over the place..... and i have read all the moans you,ve posted in here and they are all total bull and barely worth my time replying in here but unless i miss my guess then im damn well sure the gods will look favourably on you lot again and continue to stick two fingers up at the few mages that are left .

well not sure if you understood my post right fizzler but as someone who has a mage and a warrior that are top lvl i know where your coming from and im defending mages on this one.