163 replies to this topic

[MaximusGR]

hmm, there r guys like me who acutally like Overload the way it is!

Sorry - but the majority of Players did not. They saw the original Attunement as a waste.
I thought it was good skill - especilly when used in conjunction with Crystal Thought.

Original Attunement was a great skill if one knew how to use it...Some vocal Purists without knowledge on game mechanics saw that as a waste..

So the tweak from a great conditional HK/Elite slaying skill to a very weak leveling one is a good lesson for everyone to speak his mind only after thinking through things..


My opinion is to ignore the feedback on Attunement and return it to the way it was.

Or, allow 1HP for MS against Elites

Either of those 2 alternatives will give Purists an option on Elite hunting without groups if they can get the right stats -just like other 3 classes.

[centurion]

description has been changed. MS seems to work on elite now now if you can just get the shard to stack and I think people will be happy

[ecolitan]

You can't do your numbers this way. It will never work.

MS has to come with a MECHANICS cost. That will translate into having fewer stats attainable through sets and skills. Attunement that ALWAYS fires and gives boosts anywhere close to what you are stating will nullify any cost to having MS - which even weakened is the single strongest skill in the game (it now comes with "costs" but still very strong).

It was exactly this line of thought that got us to the point where attunement is pretty useless for closing the gap in Elite and HK. Mechanics involve more than pure numbers, they involve interaction of skills. Because of how MS works, it needs to be countered by a numerical disadvantage from skills in the other usable stats (damage mostly). If you argue that purists should have the SAME skill boosts to stats as all other classes AND have MS (particularly one that works for three hits against Elites) you are arguing for a "win" button.

Again, if I were a purist I'd strongly prefer the Attunement skill of a few days ago. Apparently MS has been reset to 3 hits against Elite. IMO that's too strong as it means any purist can take 3 Elites without a squad each run if they prepare (this without tweaking setups to perfection - just slap on some Elite set from last 30 levels and go). The old Attunement provided a means for purists to remove their damage deficit (at an ammo cost - well, maybe a cost) against particular mobs. This was fair and maintained the dynamics. But, in arguing for "stat" boosts purists now lost this. Making this new "always on" Attunement try to make up for that will create a massive inequity. I still say go back to last Attunement and give MS 1 shield on Elite.

[PointyHair]

@teekill: the old attunement was .2 per point to atk & dmg, it would really have levelled the playing field. it's a pity nobody took any notice of it until they took MS away.
@eco: i know what you mean about the 3 points, especially as i had figured out a way to do it without MS but with the old attunement. i'm not entirely sure how the other classes handle it, repair bots and medi packs? at the end of the day we have to periodically recharge psi whereas the other classes buffs are time based so i'd assume you can hunt almost as long as you like without the need to use intensifier. pure guess work of course

[ecolitan]

i know what you mean about the 3 points, especially as i had figured out a way to do it without MS but with the old attunement. i'm not entirely sure how the other classes handle it, repair bots and medi packs? at the end of the day we have to periodically recharge psi whereas the other classes buffs are time based so i'd assume you can hunt almost as long as you like without the need to use intensifier. pure guess work of course

Yeah - attunement allowed 1-hit kills or 2-hit kills in full armor gear or ... all kinds of interesting combinations at a cost.

I'm not opposed whatsoever to someone figuring out how to solo every single Elite. I do think it's bad if it can be done without any planning or thought. That's what 3 shields on MS is. Done right a full psi bar will kill 15 Elites as it is now. That seems way too overpowering for wearing an old set and slapping on a skill.

EDIT: If I wanted to minimize energy use I could get 27 Elites on 1 Psi bar provided my decay didn't kick in. If it did it would be a paltry 24.

[MaximusGR]

I try to understand why there are arguments against the improvement of purists. Is that just the feeling of not letting those purists that dominate the HK for the last 3 months have a chance on the HK again? I am so surprise that even some mutants who didn't even understand the important of armor for their class now trying to put some opinions on other classes (and past experience showed that their opinions on cyborgs are just purely wrong).

Why didnt you just mention my name as well, it would make it easier for everyone else? It would make your personal attack not just wrong but less sneaky as well

Purists dominated the HK not because they are smart or because they had access to special items and skills, but because a single skill allowed them to..

Attunement was fine as it was because it could give that extra damage needed to 1-hit entities that are 2-hittable with armor sets in other classes..if thats so hard for you to figure out...

P.S. An opinion can never be wrong, because its just that..an opinion..Facts and numbers can be wrong or right..

[ecolitan]

Any more advantage of MS over 150 HP should be equalized by the hassle of self-made bounded ammo of psi weapons. And remember that, purists are stuck with Elite set and psi weapon, then we have no counter-attack to high def creatures (actually yes, we have flexibility in addons to help us have higher atk, funny right ).

I won't talk about individual evo points as those are set up for lots of reasons. But, as to your question should any advantage of MS be countered by self-made bounded ammo.... NO. It needs to be countered by MECHANICS. Therefore the point reduction suffered on normal leveling. The attunement skill as it was a few days ago wiped out this deficit at a cost of ammo that meant it would only be used on a few special mobs. That was fine.

But, you continuously have asked for stat points to "equate" to the skills of other classes while maintaining MS. That would be totally unbalancing. As I pointed out, it seems that HCS has given purists back the ability to kill 27 Elites from a single Psi bar without wearing ingenious sets. I think that's a mistake, giving them an attunement that allowed parity in stats (even close) with other classes while leveling with MS would be an even larger one.

[MaximusGR]

You wont find any reason in the answers you are hoping to get sirona

Game knowledge and number loving are 2 vastly different things, good thing classes are distinct according to the former rather than -as some are asking for- the latter.

[MaximusGR]

Well, I don't think you understand me correctly (or I have presented it so poorly, sorry ). What I said is to have 150 HP in EVOLUTION POINT (at around level 200). Now, any cyborgs/soldiers, if you have 150 HP in evolution point, wearing Elite set and appropriate addon, will you survive 2 hit from most creatures? Yes, I understand the concept of armor/HP very correctly to go to that conclusion. And yes, those 150 points are not affect by duration, just like MS

150 evo points in HP are comparable to MS? Mutants, Soldiers and Cyborgs would have to kill 50 less creatures before repairing/dying in order to have 150 HP coming from evo..There are item setups to allow survival after 2 hits from most entities anyway..

And when I ask for "So why can't purists have something at least equal to aug+interface+overload (even works only against Elite/HK)", I did explicitly said "even works only against Elite/HK" right? Now I think it should be limited to HK. And I must keep repeating myself: currently purists HAVE NOTHING to go against HK except 10% reduction from MS, which I thought should be 50% at least!!!

You do have something comparable to aug+interface+overload against entities and Elites..MS and all evo points in damage should you choose to..
This would work against HK if you had Attunement as it used to be but no one could see its value apparently...so using squads from now on for 90% of the purists(i am sure some will be able to use the 10% damage reduction quite effectively) balances out beautifuly with the long domination of the mindless skill in HK soloing.

Talking about health stim, I think I forgot to mention this. How do you think about this: if you don't wear class weapon, you can't use healing? We purist are having that problem. So let say at lvl 105, purist won't be able to use the famous super atk weapon at that level. And that on top of bounded ammo. How is that equal to having some tradeable health packs? Btw, you have health packs to SUPPORT your skill bar to heal, do you think purists should ask for something like that ? (some packs to make MS when we out of skill bar? just kidding, big no from BG already )

If Cyborgs dont use their class add-ons they dont get any bonuses out of them..If soldiers dont use Class weapons and sets they almost cant level properly..So your "problem" has been a 1.5 year reality for others, welcome to it

Health packs are helpful, and using 1 of them whenever we get hit is not much different than casting a class skill on ourselves (should FINALLY be available in Quick-Buff) every 3 times we get hit..

@maxgr
Can you at least TRY to contribute to the thread rather than to attack personally?

A thread in which a purist asks whatever other classes have on top of MS? I am already, by disagreeing fully Even when under sneaky references to what my knowledge on use of armor is, lol

[ecolitan]

Purists have "nothing to go against HK" because of a change to Attunement that was argued by purists in here. Many purists have found setups that allow soloing of the HK with that version of attunement so it must have achieved the goal. I said WAY back in one of these two threads "be careful what you ask for". I really think this is a case of purists wanting stat boosts because they didn't understand that by definition they'd have to be "weak" or MS would become overpowerful again. So, AFTER asking for them they realize they were better before (some purists didn't realize - not all).

[centurion]

wow, such a lively discussion. LMAO.

I have near 200 hp(105 into evolve hp plus 50 in att), and it really depends on mob and state of repair for how often I die. most mob, I can take 2 hits before needing healing (which means large med pack) lot of the mob, I can only take 1 hit. also durability loss affect this, so I really have to repair fairly often. (so 2 hit setup becomes 1 hit setup as I go down) overall, i am sure I die more often compared to purist. (I was purist for a while, so I do have experience with it)


I posted comparison between myself and acidic and it pretty much show that acidic has very similiar combat stats . (with soldier having about 10% higher with full buff and I am betting purist will similiar att/dmg stat to mutants with muties getting rad dmg/no ammo) overall, I am not sure why people are complaining. Only real penalty that purist have is the non stackable empty shard. got back 3 hit elite, which more than make up for attunement change. lets call this a good start and thank the cows.


armor set is cool, but if I was playing borg, I may consider putting my evolve into def. you already get large att and decent dmg. I would put all my spare evolve into def and play suicide otherwise.