Nastasha

Totally agreed. No offense intended to Zorg but I would like to hear a response from Hoofmaster. We've had staff reply to Legacy related threads here in a timely matter about server issues. This is a far more pressing matter than a day of down time.

At the very least if you can't make a proper announcement till you have had a proper discussion with the HCS staff team about this, a post to let us know you will give a full reply later would be appreciated.

This thread has generated enough views to be in the top 10 most viewed threads on the front page alone. And honestly, I refuse to let it die down. Over 800 views later and so far only 1 HCS individual has taken the time to post, and yes, it was the one we wanted to hear from the most. But that doesn't take away from the fact that HCS itself should weigh in on this and be just as, if not more so, honest as Zorg was.

 

If the intent with HCS is to just let Legacy kind of float around just because Zorg is an employee with HCS, then please tell us so we can all stop hoping for something more to happen. Like I already stated, 4 years later and I had to be informed that HCS staff had left the company for reasons (of which I obviously cannot reveal) and I had to remove them from the Wiki as well as the Staff related systems since they were no longer there. Funny thing about that though: not a single person noticed. Because HCS has never had a true presence.

 

Someone logging in long enough to say "Hi" and then vanish literally right after that is not having a presence. 4 years I have been a VH and I have seen 2 different HCS members login and it was for all the 30 minutes. If that.

 

I have officially been a staff member for this game longer than I have been a player. And given the amount of frustration that I have had to put up with, it's honestly a miracle that I'm still around. While I'm not the only member on staff, I'm not going to speak for the others because they can do that for themselves if they so desire. But I have been around since the beginning of the HCS merge and I can honestly say: I am not impressed.

 

I'm sure you have heard this a few times already, but many promises were made. 80% of which were not adhered to. Myself and a bunch of others have given plenty of suggestions to try and rectify this, but we can't even get more than a few minutes of time in the forums to make that happen. Let alone in the game.

 

When LegCon (for those who are unaware, this was the equivalent of a small panel sitting down with Zorg to discuss things that the community would like to see done or added) was cancelled this year, I think it's safe to say that there were plenty of people who were shocked, but at the same time not surprised. That alone showed us that Legacy is literally in the background and on the backburner for HCS. And that the game honestly doesn't matter that much.

 

But there again: so long as there is a community that cares about the game and staff that are willing to help try and keep the game floating, until we are given official word of "Legacy's downfall" and that nothing will be done with it anymore, we aren't going to remain silent on the issue.

 

So please, anyone, at this point it doesn't matter who from HCS, could you PLEASE give us a no joke "this is what we intend on doing with Legacy" response to this?

I'm only 10 months old in this game, but already I am as addicted as I if I had been around for years... I would be heartbroken if legacy disappeared, that's for sure. But I've also played FS for years, where updates are consistent, and tickets are usually dealt with next business day.... Hoofmaster has actually logged into the game to send a lost quest item the day after Christmas, when the offices were officially closed...That, my friends, is customer service, and legacy deserves at least this....

That was a really round about way to ask me to unlock 4 tickets...

 

Jokes aside, 10 years is a long time. I was a teenager back when I started this journey and we've all changed a lot since then.  The code base at this point is very old and working on it is a laborious task, that anyone who has maintained a project for a long period of time will understand.

 

​It wouldnt be so laborious if you had stuck to the timelines instead of putting it off all the time. Heck even if things were a little behind it wouldnt be bad. The concepts for this game are great and that is why people keep coming back. That and it has attracted a strong community that has been supporting it despite your lack of follow through.

 

Major updates and complete system overhauls are just unrealistic at this point, as the large amount of work required is just not worth the poor reception such large changes generally receive.  If I was to take combat and entirely revamp it with new equations, better UI and design, at least 50% of players would hate it and I'd be more likely to kill the game entirely that revitalize it.  As has been shown recently on Fallen Sword with our attempts to revamp PVP Combat to a newer more modern system.  Players think they want updates, but they're also set in their ways and change often just serves to annoy them.

 

This is what a dev server is useful for. Our current Dev server is a joke because so very little is ever developed on it. Players reach avatar and are given access to it and it would be best to let these players actually help you test ideas. Testing on the Dev server gives you free feedback without breaking the game or making people run for the hills if an idea isnt well received.

 

As for getting new players in to the game, I'd say that's impossible at this point.  Back when Legacy started free games were few and far between, players sat and gave considerable effort and leeway to the games they tried, but those days are past.  Today's players give 1-2 minutes to a free game before deciding if they like it.  The bar has been significantly raised and the ocean Legacy now lives in has far more fish in it.  When Legacy launched I could count the competition on one hand, I was 1 guy coding in my bedroom and my biggest rival was a few guys coding in theirs, now there are hundreds of thousands of free alternatives made by massive international corporations of thousands of people.

 

Give us something to work with and new players will stick around. New people are coming all the time. they just arent staying. this is partly because you fail to cater toward new players most of the time. In most of the DTD threads explanations in requests for new player improvements are that Legacy caters to avatars. I will say you did a nice attempts with removing the shops and giving free gear. However I think it had the opposite affect that you wanted. It made the game too easy for them and gave them no variety and cheap mistakes that they could make on their own as they learned by picking weapons that looked great but sucked.

 

Having said all that, smaller changes to entertain the existing players are completely viable.   I'm not remotely against adding new items Steven makes, whenever he is ready, or making tweaks / changes to existing systems that make them more fun and enjoyable.

 

New Items are great but tweaks and the ability for staff to take care of the day to day are important. As is continued development. The best thing that can be done is allowing ideas to be tried in the DEV server to see what works and what doesnt.

 

I know I am not one to shy from saying what I feel and sometimes yea that may piss you off but you gave us all a lot of great entertainment, thank you for that. I just ask that you dont give up on us because we have not given up on you through all these years (even if we may poke fun at your expense ...well mostly westham....omg check his logs lol)

I am also a player that is on his second account. my first account was created in 2007. It got deleted due to inactivity because I was deployed and wasn't able to access the site, it happens and I understand why, back then inactive accounts were deleted to keep an accurate total of people that either cared enough to pay for a permanent account or play enough to keep their account alive. The reason I bring up my past is that Legacy made such an impact on me that when things balanced out a little better for me, I came back to the game. In fact, I even paid rl money to make my current account permanent, until HCS changed it so even the people that play for 5 min and never come back are permanent too. I know I am no longer the most active player, military life will do that, since rl comes first, but I love to come back to legacy after being out for a few months and see how my family in DF has grown or changed. I also hope every time that I see something new with the game, anything new. I would even be excited for a simple logo mod every so often like google does all the time, because at least then I could see that the higher level staff came to visit. I have heard for years that this change or that change is coming and then hear why it has been dropped. I heard a promise that HCS would proudly advertise Legacy and we would see new players join. I have heard many great things....

 

I love this game. I have played many free, browser based games, but at the end of the day, it's leacy that I compare them to and legacy I come back to... I do know what will make it popular or fancy, I have no clue how to make it over shadow all the rest, but what I do know is that having only the volunteer staff present and the appearance of HCS or other paid staff as frequent a Cain telling DF how great we are doing is not the answer.

 

The most evident thing I can use to prove my point is this:

 

Legacy Blog:

 

The latest game news is displayed below, you can also view this on our homepage.
 

« First < 89 90 91     > Last »   Game News - Posted by Scott on Thursday, August 27th 2015

 

that's 20 days ago...

 

and the last blog from zorg...

 

Game News - Posted by Zorg on Wednesday, July 1st 2015

 

.

.

.

:/

Not sure why ancient code is the hindrance to allowing other's help update the code. Wouldnt it be reasonable to work on a revamp as a team rather than take it all on yourself?

 

As well ancient code is a very poor excuse for not updating... it seems as if the lack of ability to make decent updates would inspire an overhaul. That way working on promised changes doesnt feel like pulling teeth.

 

I think whats the most insulting to our community is knowing HCS has heard complaints and yet they put us on the back burner repeatedly. This habitual negligence will eventually lead to this game's ultimate decay.

 

After all, if Will cant ask for some attention to be spared for Legacy with that well-delivered, non-presumptuous, collected approach, then chances are, HCS will continue to ignore the community til the engine can no longer run on fumes.

 

[I dont mind being presumptuous. I figure HCS will most likely equate this forum to the other attempts of inciting Legacy updates and feed us the same nonsense as before]

Have I moved into some alternate reality or imagining things, I am pretty sure at some point wasn't a reason we were not getting updates ........because zorg said he was over hauling code for future updates and did that. Don't we have dev if the sky falls in for certain updates to test before hand. 

 

Also is the code not ancient as hell on fallen sword, yet you manage just fine working around that ??

 

It has been to be fair even before hcs, vampire mode, for as long as humanly possible drain the game for money, then when the pressure cooker goes boom, do something or say something and plat sale time etc. I have no idea what happened to getting the scythe upgrades etc out the door, is that reliant on a code upgrade ? There are numerous tiny bits that can be done to polish up legacy.

 

Also the forums should have looser restrictions and be more free flowing, not lock lock lock. They seem to have had the life drained from them as not much can ever go astray/off topic. Over haul of rules and some mergers maybe to freshen them up. We could do with a staff over haul if some have become inactive and a chamber of elders review. 

 

I still think if your heart is not in it, let some players while we still have some left try and pool money together and buy you out. Be realistic on the cost. Probs will never happen. 

 

But I would imagine if a LEGCON ever occurred again and we all had a sit down and hashed out some stuff, if it was truthful and honest and everyone had a say, that your plat sales would go up as I know some players who do not buy anything anymore involving real money because the trust is lost and the promises and stalls that occur through out the years. 

 

Morale is game with players is low. 

 

But I still think being walled into this site is a killer also, this is not the paradise that was portrayed when merging with hcs. How many years now have we gone without advertising. Nothing is put back in, the odd bit of code. 

 

It was even a running joke on the game going around at one point how hcs don't deal with legacy, it is thrown to zorg, then to scott. Is that a good way for the way even if untrue for the players to feel how legacy is viewed by hcs.  

 

Also I still strongly believe even if a counter was put on legacy saying if we reach certain goals we get certain work done on the game. It would motivate people and give them something to at least view as tangible and work towards. Like once x amount of plat is bought by the player base you get this update AND IF IT WAS NOT A TRICK. I would buy plat to help that goal, at least you know if you chip in you get work on the game done and you help keep it alive. Not plat sales and uncertainty on when the next update comes or how long more we go before the next thread and more life is drained from the game due to never seeing anyone around the game. 

I can understand that the coding is ancient and something just short of what cavemen would've used at one point. I can almost sympathize with that to a degree as well. But at the same time, I have to ask: how difficult would it be to recode the game so that the coding you have is simpler to work with? I believe it'd also allow for new/different things to be added that you were unable to do before as well. And I'm sure one of the HCS coders would be happy to work on it with you. And you could do it safely as well. Just recode the game elsewhere and when it is stable, have a couple of people as "testers" to ensure that things don't break when moving around. And once it's confirmed to be safe and stable, move everyone over. Which, I am sure in and of itself would be a task. Because the playerbase is coded the same way. So finding a way to convert everyone would be tricky as hell.

 

But honestly, given the content of Legacy and how the game works, I think it's realistic to state that nobody is looking for you to wave a magic wand and change the look of the game entirely. And as stated before, it's mostly those who have stuck around the longest and the every so often new person who comes along and just likes the game. So really, it's just adding little things here and there to refresh things. Even if it's just a few different NPCs, weapons, armor, or upgrading system. At this point, everyone would be happy with just about anything really. And it doesn't have to be huge. As I stated, it could just be a couple hours here and there to let everyone know what is being worked on, where little projects are at, and potential things that can be expected.

 

I know you still love Legacy, Zorg. It's your baby. Something you created on a whim and frankly, you created a very unique community because of it. Show your face to it every once in a while would ya?

Just a heads to anyone reading, you can 'like' the post at the top which will help HCS see and hear that this is an issue near and dear to our hearts. 

 

HCS- stop letting Legacy die. We might not be the prettiest browser game, heck, we aren't even the most fun- but we're here, we're queer....wait, wrong chant.

 

I would like to echo Will's sentiment, though- Come back Zorg, we miss you. And bring Hoofmaster and the other HCS staff with you to visit from time to time.

Greetings to HCS in general. You may not know who I am, but I am Will. One of the Volunteer Helpers over at Legacy. I am here to express a few concerns that I, myself, have that I wish to bring forth and hopefully have addressed. Some of these issues, I know the community as a whole has as well, but they feel it's pointless to even mention it. Which is something I intend to cover as well. Which, unfortunately, means that this post will be quite a read. So I apologize in advance for that.

 

What my concerns are stem from 3 specific things: Staff, Player, and the Game itself.

 

The Staff Side:

When I first applied for staff 4 years ago, almost everyone that was currently staff had to step down because Zorg joined HCS. The reason given was because Legacy would now be part of HCS. Which meant that staff from HCS would join in and help on the staff side of the house. I decided that I would stick around since I just joined the team and I would be able to easily mold into whatever needed to be done.

 

A short time after the merge, we were introduced to a few individuals. They hung around, chatted with the community, posted in the forums, it looked great. But then something happened. Everyone vanished. Almost literally to never be heard from again.

 

Why is this a problem for me and the other staff specifically? Well, we are no longer allowed to do certain things or be able to view certain things. Such as assist players with account issues. Reason being, we are not allowed to see the emails attached to accounts. We have a harder time catching potential multiple accounts (something not allowed at Legacy) because we are not allowed to see passwords.

 

This is all fine and good and I fully understand the reason behind it. Privacy related issues and etc etc. But the problem starts when there is nobody around to solve the issue. I can only hope when someone comes to me with an "account issue" is that it's an old, returning player and that they just have to make an HCS account to merge with their Legacy account. And if that's not the case and say they need an email change, that brings up an entire new problem. Relying on the ticket system.

 

I cannot speak for the other games that HCS own and how their process is done, but I can speak for Legacy. I have went 3, 7, even as long as almost 21 days waiting for tickets to be approved before I can view them. This part, I can also understand because the reason I was given, again, was it could pertain to email specific issues and that is something that I as an unpaid employee to the game, cannot view for privacy reasons. But again, if a person is forced to wait 21 days before they finally get a response, chances are they have just sucked it up and moved on. Or have found something else to do with their time and figured Legacy is no longer worth the time.

 

And it's not just account based issues. People have flat out told me that they don't bother with the ticket system anymore because the response time is horrid. And whenever I explain to them that it's not our (the Legacy staff) fault because we have to wait for HCS to approve it first, they honestly become appauled that it takes that long before they finally get a ticket approved so Legacy staff can come in to try and help. Which means all kinds of player harassment and abuse are left alone to never be dealt with because...the players feel they can't rely on staff to handle it because it takes so long for them to finally get a response.

 

The Player Side:

Hard as it is for me to believe these days, I was a player at one point. But even though I haven't been a player for the past 4 years, I have seen the growing frustration of the community. And this extends beyond the normal rants that Zorg has grown accustom to from the community over the last 10 years this game has been around.

 

First off: like I just said, this game has been around for 10 years. 10...solid...years...Despite all the ups and downs it has had, including a server move that damn near wiped out the entire database Zorg had, people are STILL around from the first days of the games release. Whether because they still enjoy the game itself, the community/friendships they've developed over the years, or even if it's just a part of their ritual to login and see what's going on, the fact is this game has some of the most hardcore dedicated players you will EVER have. Almost no game can hold a person's attention for more than a year. This game has managed to do so for 10. That alone should inspire a company to put some attention forth.

 

This game, despite having one of the most loyal communities I have ever seen and being promised numerous times that it would get more attention.......it has fallen by the wayside. "Once Eldevin has launched and is on it's feet." "Once I'm done with this project." And I'm not even going to bother going over all the plans and roadmaps that were given to the community. While yes, they were upheld to almost exactly what was stated, as soon as it was done, all presence from HCS and Zorg vanished entirely. And we only see him again every 3 months to rotate our Wasteland Map.

 

Everyone at Legacy knows full well that there are some very talented artists at HCS. Even having a somewhat dedicated graphic artist would be a step in the right direction because this neglect has went on for so long that our longest standing graphic artist has abandoned the game due to...well the game being abandoned.

 

The Game itself:

Like I have said before, this game has been around for 10 years. Any game that can claim it has been around for a decade, especially a text based game, is definitely one worth investing into. There are groups of people on Legacy that would group together and buy Legacy from Zorg just to keep it alive and do frequent updates because they love the game that much. So it's understandable why people are upset right now. Frustrating as it is for me to see it day in and day out from players, I can't help but sympathize with them at the same time.

 

One of the excuses could be, "Well Zorg is the only one who knows how to code it." That might be the case...but that can only work for so long. And after 4 years, the community no longer wants to hear that excuse. In 4 years time, surely someone could have been brought up to speed on how things are done. But nobody probably has. Because no effort, no TRUE effort, has been put forth.

 

At one point, the game had an accurate playerbase. This was due to the fact that inactive players would simply be automatically deleted for inactivity. But this was removed for some reason. A reason, that honestly, was never given publically. So people were left to theorize why. And the one everyone went with was because a game with no accounts/players looks bad next to the other games. So a bigger number must mean that more people play, right?

 

There are currently 9180 accounts.

 

And most of these are people who make an account, look around for 5 seconds, and logout. Never to be heard from again. While yes, the way it use to be meant that at most you would see maybe 800 accounts, but at least that was a more accurate picture. At least those 800 were dedicated enough to keep playing or at some point have supported the game by making a donation at some point so their account became permanent. Which this overall thing looks to me as an easy out for Legacy getting no attention. As long as that number of accounts keeps increasing, it must mean that the game is good enough as it is and there's no reason to put any attention towards it. Which that is anything but the case.

---------------------

All 3 of these issues tie into each other to some degree. But there is no denying that they are issues.

 

I'm not here to demand anything. I'm not here to try and cause issues. I'm not here to start drama between anyone.

 

What I am here for, is to try and be the voice that starts the process of Legacy getting some actual attention from not just HCS, but the creator that has managed to create a game that has brought people together and has kept a loyal fanbase for so long. And continues to grow to this day.

 

At this point, I believe the community would be happy even if they had 1 day where there is a little chunk of time set aside specifically for Legacy. Even if it's just 3 hours of that day. There are ideas being thrown around in game all the time to try and make things better. Whether it's to better balance the gear or something totally new. So it's not like much has to be considered. Just what is willing to be worked with.

 

As for me, I would personally love to see some sort of presence of HCS at Legacy. Just to show that Legacy DOES matter and we're not just some addition that was added on when a certain person joined the ranks.

 

Thank you for your time and hopefully we (myself and the community itself) will hear from HCS/Zorg at some point. Because as this forum has shown, with a majority of the threads being about Legacy, those at Legacy do pay attention and care about Legacy. And I intend to let them know that I created this thread.

• Gang balance - Balancing gangs via level and not by members would help, limit gang max lvl to avoid gang hopping.
• WFP weapons - Coming soon anyway.
• Huge Plat update - There is so much that could be added, impliment a plat store admin that can do weekly deals etc.

List of small updates that can tweek and help:

 

• Double fatigue for none avatar kills, for avatars.
• Double radiation for entering enemy sqaures in a 9 square radius of their base.
• Increase movement time in WL to 20 seconds.
• Increase move time with fatigue.
• No move restriction for lvl 50 and below.
• Increase daily revive to 3.
• New jobs.
• Lower Level weapon exp for none av weapons by -80%.
• Add a new hunting tier 80-85 that drops small and mediums.
• Allow hospital to stay open via platinum.
• Allow energy refill via platinum once a week.
• Inventory stacking.
• Multi IP accounts should not be allowed to be in the same gang.
• Cap platinum at 75c (LOL)
• Triple reputation and add new gang items.
• Make better gang loyalty rewards.
• Make 'Quick Information' on the main screen stand out more, you can't even tell when a vote is on.
• Add some of Rod's script to the game

@Nastasha

 

Follow-up question A: "Why did you have fun as Rogue compared to being in a gang?"
Not answering because you didnt read my answer correctly so it is pointless

 

Follow-up question B: "Would it truly upset you if transition from Rogue to new gang was slightly more enjoyable (able to enter wasteland for those that choose to)?"

 You're choice of words is astounding to get your point across. It reminds me of the lawyers I know.
Personally, ya it honestly would upset me about the wasteland thing... Should being rogue be a lil ore enjoyable sure why not.. but wasteland.. NO

Follow-up question C: "In either case, do you feel your view is a reflection of every single new player we might get into the future?"

again, your choice of words is astounding,. No obviously I am not going to have the same views as every single new player...(As you can clearly see our views are not the same here), \
But the same could be said about your views.  If YOUR view a reflection of every single new player we might get in the future? Goes both ways.

 

Follow-up question A: "Can you try and imagine if you were actually able to choose your initial gang?"

Ive answered this somewhere before. I dont like to choose my own gang. I would rather be put somewhere, i honestly would. Ive imagined it and i dont like choosing. end of story
 

Follow-up question B: "Might you have had a better player experience early in if you felt more in control at the start?"

I loved my player experience so no, i dont think it could have been better. It has nothing to do with control. Its the people that make the experience


Follow-up question A: "Am I to believe that one can not both read about there gang politics, as well as experience it first hand? (is it a matter of either-or?)"

Did I say that anywhere in my post? No, I didnt. Your questions asked SPECIFICALLY about MY experience. I have already explained my stance on this when it comes to learning about the gang.
You can read all you want in a damn library book about a gang, and fall in love with what is written on the pages... but then shattered when you get there and find it completely different.
For example Ill use TC this time.
They are corrupt, or at least meant to be. Yet last time i was there it was constant Penis jokes and the like.. Not at all like it was in the "research" you would find.


Follow-up question: "Do you still answer or have you answered on side-chat or in messages questions of how to switch gangs?"

Actually if asked I will answer, but majority dont ask actually because I have a feeling its pretty easy to find


Follow-up question: Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a screen-shot walk-through of how to "leave a gang" and "join a gang" of any variation is less then 10 clicks? If so, please show. If not, why not?

Yes, I can as I have explained before. When Rep is not taken into account. (Which it shouldnt at the levels you are claiming are leaving (1-5), or if you are higher then that if you have enough rep to not be able to join a gang.. you are not a new player anymore
I cannot show you the how to join a gang as I am not leaving y gang to take screenshots for this.. sorry cant do that


So if everyone is different, might it make sense to plan for new players to have a low-capacity for learning/patience instead of a high one?

I said I had low, very low patience... if I can get through it many people can..

Yes or no. Is it a matter of fact that presently Side Chat is an unreliable/inconsistent source of important information for brand new players?"

BOTH, it has gotten a lot better since I was a newbie. They actually help now, so no.. presently... its not unreliable source of information.



Follow-up question A: "Might a secondary use of wasteland be possible, such as to show new players a glimpse at what gang territory and the wasteland is in the first place?"

Anything is possible really... so yes it would be possible, but it is not something that would better enhance the game.. sorry it just wouldnt be


Follow-up question B: "Might a hypothetical Rogue Wastelander realize his Rogue option is not as cool as moving to a gang of their choosing, and interacting on the Wasteland help in their decision?"

If there was no rogue wastelander.. then this question wouldn't even need to be asked. |
Already there is no rogues allowed in wastelands, so they would join a gang to join wastelands...what your suggesting is adding an unnecessary step to the equation.
Wasteland is for gangs..Not rogues


My question A: "Yes or no? Is it common practice for gang welcome messages to make switching gangs simple for every new player?"

No, why would a gang advertise how to leave their gang. IF asked they will answer but its not in their welcome message that's just idiotic to be honest

My question B: "Yes or no. Doesn't communicating with a rank 11 take additional perfect clicks for a player to perform their desired goal, rather then if they knew how to do it on their own?"

I dont understand how being rogue is going to teach you all these new things, and in a quick time, faster and more efficiently then another player..Unless I'm missing this thing about clicking ( because honestly the clicking point is about as moot and pointless as they come),
I found it easier to have a fellow gang member tell me where to find things, ( or guides) then it did for tutorials.

My question C: "Yes or no. Would it be a bad thing if rank 11's were able to focus more on polishing player's advanced learning/playing, instead of basic game mechanic teaching?"

Rank 11s job are to introduce the newbies to the gang, its politics, and basic game mechanics. I dont quite know what you mean about this first part though.. But from what i understand.
I think it would be more detrimental then helpful.


My question A: "Yes or No? Do you mean to say that you believe Rogue Viability would mean no new players are ever able to leave Rogues?"

Ok for one this cannot be a yes or no question because You word it so that if i said one thing, it proves your point, and if i say another thing it makes me look like an ignorant idiot.
Ive said this from the start, my experience was best learned by interactions not stupid library books. I AM NOT LIKE EVERYONE, I dont know how you can just lump all the newbies together in
these questions.. I really dont.
I dont understand where you go the " No new players are ever able to leave rogues" idea came from.. I never said it, nor did i Insinuate it...


My question B: "Yes or No? Do you believe Rogue Viability would make moving to a gang of their choice impossible?"

Im about to skip some of these questions based on the fact your wording questions and making them yes or no only answer but yet you word them that the only plausible answer that doesnt make me look like an idiot is the one you can run with to make your point.
Lawyers, again do this all the time.. they're called leading questions...

I never said it would make their choice impossible.. never even mentioned it.. where did this even come from ?

 

Follow-up question: "Yes or No? Do you believe a majority of players of any given game would prefer to be confused, over having a seamless experience?"

This is the worst leading question I have ever seen.
OF COURSE people don't want to be flippin confused.. doesn't mean that this game is  as confusing as you keep saying it is. I would be stupid to say " ya! thats totally what people want"..because obviously they don't...

so the only plausible answer is no.. and therefore you think it proves your point.. but in truth. It shows you can have a proper question and answer debate without trying to make the odds in your favor..

 

My question A: "Yes or No? Did every player you speak to stay playing the game?"

No, obviously not. Since i said some of the players have told me why they LEFT...so if they left.. they didnt stay playing the game did they..

My question B: "Yes or No? Might the players that did leave not have told you exactly why they left?"

Leading question.
Well considering majority of the players who have told me why they left were people were people i have continuous contact with through the guide job (answer questions sending revives, etc etc) I would have to say they have no reason to not tell me


My question C: "Assuming players left, did you remain in contact with those that did and have them answer why exactly they left in detail?"

Uh no. Some, yes because they were people I knew offsite
Others that were random sign ups, nope, no way to contact them.
this is a silly question. Im not a stalker...

My question D: "Might what you heard from some players be a poor reflection of why all players stop playing?"

No, it's the reason why they stopped playing. I dont group a certain group of players together like you seem to be doing through this entire debate. Ive never said the reason for all lowbies leaving was because of this, I have said the ones I have spoken to.


My question E: "Yes or No? Might more players stick around, if doing things they want to do in-game was easier?"

nope, if it was too easy they would get bored and leave... oh wait.. some already have



Most important question: "if you realized you were incorrect in your earlier assumptions, would you admit you made a mistake? Would it contribute to you forming a new opinion?"

If i realized I was incorrect I would admit it, But I stand by my opinion I have more cons in regards to this rogues viability, then mistakes ive made.



 
 

@Nastasha, I will split this into 2 parts-

answering your questions comes after

 

RE: I am curious of why you had fun as Rogue?

 
You seem to have misread my comment. You asked a two-part question... My yes, was to the first part... "have you ever been rogue"

 

 

RE: Sorry, it wasn't obvious to me. So I am correct in assuming the auto-assign algorithm did not in fact place you in the gang you had hoped for? Also I am curious if you had less initial patriotism to said gang you were in before you made the choice to move, and more for the gang you did move to?

I assumed it was obvious because in my previous stated comments, I had already mentioned I was not in my home gang... and we were also in DF together. yet Im not in that now, so it should have been obvious

No, you are not correct in assuming, since I hadnt hoped for a certain gang at all. I shared the same amount of "patriotism" as you call it in all gangs that I was in. I spent over a year in each gang before I settled here in OC.

 

 

That leads me to believe the customs and expectations of you were not immediately obvious to you as a new player. It required further reading, or further learning. I can see that and that makes sense. However I am confused why you mentioned your last sentence

 

Let me rephrase this so its better understanding.. I could read the books all day. and it would NEVER prepare me for the gang. I started in Bod, which is the gang of honor. It never confused me

what that meant. One look at the forums or even chatting with a rank 11, showed me the personality and if the rank 11 does their welcome message right, you will also get a feel for what the gang stands for. The customs and expectations were never not obvious to me. For the record.

 

 

RE: Well that is fortunate. Given that during that flurry of everyone (making their own choice) moving to the gang of their actual choosing, a lot of people were moving so it was a hot topic in SC. I am sure you can agree it is no longer a hot topic, so your experience is different now then new players.

 

 

I dont quite understand what this has to do with me... There was never an abundance of "moving to the gang of their actual choosing"...It was the same amount of people moving when I started that there is now.. Nor was it a "hot topic" so no, I will not agree with that statement. and It is not different from when I was new..


RE: I am skeptical, and I do not believe this is the case. I will go on record and say that if you prove this with screenshots that it is that easy to "Leave Gang", then less then five clicks to "Join Gang" of any selection (reputation included in this discussion) I will admit I am incorrect if you prove this point. That would make my argument about this being too complex for new players a moot point. Please prove me wrong?

 

I  will provide screenshots if i really need to... Cuz it does take 3 ( 4 with confirmation screen) to leave a gang.
And also. to join gang is also less than 5, reputation should not have any effect on this because if they have enough reputation to not allow them into a gang... then they are no longer "new players" Imo.
Not to mention you keep talking about levels 1-5... at those levels you would NEVER EVER EVER have too much rep to join a gang.

 

 

RE: Thank you. I tend to agree. I feel Side Chat is a very hit-or miss resource for newbies, and at many times counter-productive and harmful resource for newbies. I think we are all pretty aware of this, so I will see if we can finalize this train of thought.

 

This is what guides and rank 11s are for, Unfortuneatly sidechat is not always going to be a reliable resource. But believe it or not.. its gotten way better

RE: This statement seems like an oxymoron to me. It is a bit ironic. It sounds like you are saying because switching gangs is confusing, reaching out to rank 11s will do the task for them? Or (pardon my confusion) that rank 11s have a magic ability to move new players to any gangs with a simple request? In my mind, one must first realize they are confused (after lots of clicking around), then find out who the rank 11s are, then send the message, then wait for response, perhaps some correspondence back and forth (adding to the click count), then eventually stumble some more to figure it out. Only to find they may be stuck in Roguatory till they lower their reputation, while if they knew about rep and the choice to move earlier before they had to ask about it, this whole process would have gone smoother and they would have been more pleased. That is how I think.

To be honest if you didnt leave out the key point to that paragraph.. it would make more sense.. I said it doesnt take many clicks to FIND OUT ABOUT YOUR GANG, because thats what a lot of the rank 11's cover. I wasnt talking about how to leave a gang.
You must not know about rank 11's or their jobs.. theyre jobs are to message the new players to the gang, introduce them to the funcinality of the gang, as well as help them with any questions or concerns they may have. THey also administer a test to rank up that shows they know how to navigate around the game/gang aspects
So to say they must figure out who the rank 11s are and message them is a little ignorant of you on the system of rank 11s.

 

 

RE: In the best case scenario perhaps rank 11s immediately send a message to new players, and within the welcome message is a direct link to the button to change gangs?

uh no, A rank 11 is not going to advertise how to leave their gang.. thats preposterous.. Now a guide, that is a person who could do that, without the feeling of betraying their gang..Also.. that is what rank 11s do.. they send the message to new players when they come to the gang.. Again please please please, understand ranks before you talk about them.

 

 

RE: I don't disagree in the least. The best way to understand something is to experience it. I am not talking about the best way for players to experience something, I am talking about the best way for new players to learn something in order to make an informed choice. These are related, but still are entirely different things. I personally feel a new player will have more patriotism and a more positive player experience, if the gang they enter first was one of their own choosing. They might also be excited to see how simple making a choice is.

 

 

Again.. they could read all they want about a gang and be like.. you know what.. I LOVE the fact DARKFLAME roleplays, and they serve cain etc etc.. but when they get there they see its not all role play, etc etc... How is that an informed decision? I'll keep it simple.. it's not.

 

 

RE: I am very confused by this statement/point/view. Can you help me understand what you are trying to express? In my mind, one must a.) know they have an option first in order to b.) research said options in order to c.) make an informed player-driven decision. That is assuming they are brand new to the game of course.

 

You brought up the amount of clicks being a negative thing if it takes to long to find, so you used it as a negative towards auto assigning.. well the SAME logic could be used for Rogue assignment.. They still have to click to find things do they not? Still the amount of clicks is relevent to you correct?.. so that makes the clicking aspect. NULL AND VOID. as they counteract each other.





 

Not saying whom, not publicly at least (cow gods know where to find me)  but there is a practice, a trial by fire, hazing, whatever you want to call it.  There are a handful of players that specifically target us lowbies in the WL with the sole intention of running us from the game.  This even had an effect on me, and on a few occasions I thought to leave, yet I am stubborn, and it's hard for me to back down from a fight.  But this fight isn't fair, I have no choice but to run or be killed.  Then a chase ensues, and I am  like a rabbit on the run.  Fleeing to the hive helps, after the initial attack, but still, it makes me feel unwanted.  I am a loyal HCS gamer, and I feel I deserve a modicum of common respect.  There is no respect in this practice.  It is bullying plain and simple and it's bad for the game imo.  

a gang side chat would be great.. don't understand why this was never introduced into teh game