73 replies to this topic

[hmfic]

Having unbound PvP rewards encourage buying, and fewer people would actually participate for the items. Why would they risk all those levels, and waste thousands of Stam to get these sets, when they can just drop 100-200 dots for it, or wait for the prices to crash.


Why does everything have to be unbound? People who participate for the gear will have the PVP advantage over others.

This!
If items(and potions) won on the ladder were bound-more people would have to participate in that part of the game,if they want them for themselves.

With new unbound items(and potions) we will have the same ladders won by the same people.
With bound items(and potions) we would surely see levelers,arena players(and others) trying to win the ladder(if the rewards were worth having).
A little change could be a positive thing for PvP(ladder one) in this game,it is almost dead anyway.

I couldn't have said it any better myself

[hmfic]

I see a cow online.....

any insight?

there is obviously still alot of passion for pvp and the ladder. can we get some idea if you guys have plans to improve?

[dowuones]

Bound items only force players to play an aspect of the game they are not interested to play.
Its a game, everyone should play it in his own way, without being penalized for doing what he likes.
FS has many aspects, and its a game, its not a work.
Force players to do something they dont like, and they will go to serch sometthing else where they are not forced to do anything. Let them make what they like, and they will stay and have fun.

Bound Items force people to participate for items they are willing to USE. If they dont see something they like/want, then it wouldnt matter. I recently got a Deep Sea set from a guildmate, because I had no tokens, and didnt want to lose levels getting it. If they were bound, I'd have to get off my lazy butt, and work for it myself. I dont see how thats a bad thing...

If someone doesnt PvP, s/he shouldnt get the PvP rewards. Work for it, or gtfo.

Thats exactly what im saying. You want to force players to do something. And in a game thats for sure a bad thing.
If you bound Ladder rewards than they should be used only in the Ladder and not for anything else, or you should also bound Titan rewards, Arena Rewards and so on (forcing players even more), maybe even skills should be bound.
..and thank you very much for the kind words, very constructive.

[Spitfire666123]

Bound items only force players to play an aspect of the game they are not interested to play.
Its a game, everyone should play it in his own way, without being penalized for doing what he likes.
FS has many aspects, and its a game, its not a work.
Force players to do something they dont like, and they will go to serch sometthing else where they are not forced to do anything. Let them make what they like, and they will stay and have fun.

Bound Items force people to participate for items they are willing to USE. If they dont see something they like/want, then it wouldnt matter. I recently got a Deep Sea set from a guildmate, because I had no tokens, and didnt want to lose levels getting it. If they were bound, I'd have to get off my lazy butt, and work for it myself. I dont see how thats a bad thing...

If someone doesnt PvP, s/he shouldnt get the PvP rewards. Work for it, or gtfo.

Thats exactly what im saying. You want to force players to do something. And in a game thats for sure a bad thing.
If you bound Ladder rewards than they should be used only in the Ladder and not for anything else, or you should also bound Titan rewards, Arena Rewards and so on (forcing players even more), maybe even skills should be bound.
..and thank you very much for the kind words, very constructive.

I dont want to FORCE anybody to do anything. If they see something they want on the Ladder, they CHOOSE to PvP for it. Same with Titans, LEs, SEs, Arena. Only difference is I dont think they should be able to buy PvP items.

Look at other MMOs: you have Raids, 5-Player Dungeons, and quests. Most of which drops BoP (Bind on Pickup). Do you quit those games because you cant sell them for profits too?

PvP gear in those games have less-than-optimal stats for PvE. They also "force" people to PvP to get them. Would you cry foul because you cant get them without PvPing?

Ill ask you again, since you ignored the question: Why does all gear have to be unbound?

I feel its good for the economy if there were some gear that you cant buy. The Fallensword community as a whole has gained the mentality of "Why should I waste time and stam to do it? Ill buy it when the price drops", Which is unhealthy.

Also, what part of my last post was unconstructive? The gtfo? That was added for emphasis, and to get my point across. Which apparently failed

[dowuones]

So we can make SEs, Arena and Titans items unbound cause you are not interested in those parts of the game, but we make Ladder items bound, cause you want more people to play your play-style. Isnt it?

Choose? Force? If im level 950 and my main interest is leveling i have to "choose" to play the the ladder to be able to use Helhearts and Elaborate? So the choice is to "choose" to play a part of the game im not interested to, or to go on playing the part i like being limited (and honestly its not fun). Its not a choice, its an attempt to force players to do something they dont like.

If you want the Ladder to be improved, you better suggest something to make it more fun and attract players because they like it, not because if they dont do it they will be penalised in other parts of the game, rewards wont change the situation, are only a band aid.

If there is a 10,000 stamina quest and the reward is a Pick Axe, i go for it, cause i have fun. If theres something that i dont like and you want me to do it, you just ruin my game experience (and you dont fix yours)

[Jose]

Choose? Force? If im level 950 and my main interest is leveling i have to "choose" to play the the ladder to be able to use Helhearts and Elaborate? So the choice is to "choose" to play a part of the game im not interested to, or to go on playing the part i like being limited (and honestly its not fun). Its not a choice, its an attempt to force players to do something they dont like.

Wait wait, i think the point is, that the players that play the ladder they can invent new items obviously with pvp based stats and those would be bound. I think nobody said that Hellhearts would get bound. Same with potions.

[hmfic]

Titan items begin their lives as guild tagged items....(minus elementals). Team effort and the team gets the reward

PvP is a solo act and the PvP'r should get the reward. Not everything in the game has to be about profiteering.

NOBODY forces me to titan hunt or SE hunt but when I want an item I have to go hunt it because I can not afford to buy them. I risk my xp,lvls and gold every time I opt into a ladder or hell even when I titan/SE hunt. why should anyone else profit because I worked my arse off risking my xp,lvls and gold?

If anyone wants newer pvp gear(if bound) then they should opt in and earn it. hell I'd be happy seeing some sweet leveling gear/pots introduced thru the ladder to generate some interest in it.

[Spitfire666123]

Choose? Force? If im level 950 and my main interest is leveling i have to "choose" to play the the ladder to be able to use Helhearts and Elaborate? So the choice is to "choose" to play a part of the game im not interested to, or to go on playing the part i like being limited (and honestly its not fun). Its not a choice, its an attempt to force players to do something they dont like.

Wait wait, i think the point is, that the players that play the ladder they can invent new items obviously with pvp based stats and those would be bound. I think nobody said that Hellhearts would get bound. Same with potions.

Im not suggesting the old gear being bound... only the new stuff.

So we can make SEs, Arena and Titans items unbound cause you are not interested in those parts of the game, but we make Ladder items bound, cause you want more people to play your play-style. Isnt it?

Make it all bound, i really wouldnt care. It would make players self-sufficient, and not depending on their wallets for success.

If you want the Ladder to be improved, you better suggest something to make it more fun and attract players because they like it, not because if they dont do it they will be penalised in other parts of the game, rewards wont change the situation, are only a band aid.

Bound items WOULD attract people to the Ladder. If they didnt participate, they dont get shiny gear.

If there is a 10,000 stamina quest and the reward is a Pick Axe, i go for it, cause i have fun. If theres something that i dont like and you want me to do it, you just ruin my game experience (and you dont fix yours)

If there's something you dont like, then dont do it. Its not like im suggesting that PvP be integrated into everyday hunting, "You have to PvP 100 times per day to get your XP". THAT would be forcing people to PvP. Not binding gear rewarded from PvP activity.

[Lahona]

Bound new PvP ladder gear?

Scenario:

Player A has played the PvP ladder for some time and has a stack of ladder rewards waiting for new gear to invent with it.

Player B has not played the PvP ladder before, so has no ladder rewards. Player B would like the new gear OR would like to play the PvP ladder.

How is Player B going to be able to compete on the PvP ladder if Player A has the advantage of the new gear and Player B cannot win against it?

If all new PvP ladder reward gear and potions are bound, then only those already playing the ladder will continue to play it. There are unlikely to be many, if any, new participants.

[Spitfire666123]

Bound new PvP ladder gear?

Scenario:

Player A has played the PvP ladder for some time and has a stack of ladder rewards waiting for new gear to invent with it.

Player B has not played the PvP ladder before, so has no ladder rewards. Player B would like the new gear OR would like to play the PvP ladder.

How is Player B going to be able to compete on the PvP ladder if Player A has the advantage of the new gear and Player B cannot win against it?

If all new PvP ladder reward gear and potions are bound, then only those already playing the ladder will continue to play it. There are unlikely to be many, if any, new participants.

If they use different tokens, or wipe all current tokens from player's inventories, nobody will have any advantage over anybody.

People will join for the gear, if the gear is shiny enough to be worth it. Nobody plays Ladder NOW because they dont have to. Its easier to buy stuff from those people who DO Ladder

[Anemie]

Bound new PvP ladder gear?

Scenario:

Player A has played the PvP ladder for some time and has a stack of ladder rewards waiting for new gear to invent with it.

Player B has not played the PvP ladder before, so has no ladder rewards. Player B would like the new gear OR would like to play the PvP ladder.

How is Player B going to be able to compete on the PvP ladder if Player A has the advantage of the new gear and Player B cannot win against it?

If all new PvP ladder reward gear and potions are bound, then only those already playing the ladder will continue to play it. There are unlikely to be many, if any, new participants.

You don't need the best items and buffs to win the ladder.
I'm pretty sure that a lot of PvP-ers would be more than willing o help new players on the ladder.
Also,cows could just add new type of tokens which would be used for new and old items,with old tokens you would only be able to buy old items.

[yotwehc]

I dont want to FORCE anybody to do anything.

Haha... Love this quote.

[Maehdros]

Bound new PvP ladder gear?

Scenario:

Player A has played the PvP ladder for some time and has a stack of ladder rewards waiting for new gear to invent with it.

Player B has not played the PvP ladder before, so has no ladder rewards. Player B would like the new gear OR would like to play the PvP ladder.

How is Player B going to be able to compete on the PvP ladder if Player A has the advantage of the new gear and Player B cannot win against it?

If all new PvP ladder reward gear and potions are bound, then only those already playing the ladder will continue to play it. There are unlikely to be many, if any, new participants.

I suggest player B start playing the ladder now while the ladders are quiet to gain some tokens for the *new gear and potions* , gain some skill, learn how buffs work, and realize xp loss is not the end of the world.

Once the new rewards come out, I'd bet theres going to be ALOT more activity , meaning more hitting, more xp loss, more stamina sunk.

No ones Forced to participate in the ladder, just as no ones forced to join global events, same as no one's forced to do quests ( other then those ones which confine you to a realm >_< ) . If a player wants the bound rewards, opt in, dabble in pvp, gain some tokens, lose some xp, maybe make a few friends, and get some prizes for their trouble.

[michael65]

...
Why does everything have to be unbound? People who participate for the gear will have the PVP advantage over others.

As said before, bound items have a reason: cheap (special auction), quest (rune for air elemental), or special offer (usually potions).

...
No one will be forced to Compete in the ladder should they want any bound items or potions.
However, should they want these items they can personally and willingly, by no one else's accord, opt in and battle to the death. Well, I try to imagine my foes slain on the ground dead...

What with the politician speech? ie, no taxes will be raised except all of them OR no rights will be curtailed just limited.

[michael65 editing]...
Bound Items force people to participate for items they are willing to USE. If they dont see something they like/want, then it wouldnt matter. I recently got a Deep Sea set from a guildmate, because I had no tokens, and didnt want to lose levels getting it. If they were bound, I'd have to get off my lazy butt, and work for it myself. I dont see how thats a bad thing...

If someone doesnt PvP, s/he shouldnt get the PvP rewards. Work for it, or ...

So the rest of FS game economy is fine, but PvP token gear (this gets complicated since tokens --> resource and recipe --> luck --> then gear) is wrong!?!? This makes no sense. The only argument that does make sense is bound work in other games, but how does FS and theses other games compare? If honest in the first place, we could be having a significant discussion. Instead, we get complaint about buyers (spending fsp - ie cash) getting gear that has always been the case (and apply to other games).

Before others think bound is a good idea, apply it to hunting, farming, scavenging, inventing, and potion making. The FS game economy would collapse.

Unless the EU is giving grants to providing games for free, the bound argument is a bad idea.

The bound idea best represent the views of FS (HCS) competitors than loyal players (imo).

[hmfic]

The bound idea best represent the views of FS (HCS) competitors than loyal players (imo).

so you're saying that because I want to see MORE players playing the ladder and want to see more fsp spent on buffs,pots,etc that I'm a competitor of HCS and not a loyal player? WOW. you might want to look and see who's been playing the game the longest and who's done more in the game before throwing out such things. might upset people.

You want to buy pvp gear without risking your levels. we all get it. but not all of us agree.

The arguement that bound gear would make the current players invincible is moot. NO set is unbeatable. I beat players 1200-1300 lvls above me on the BB ALL the time, sometimes buffed,sometimes not. The point is its only a matter of knowing how to do it. If players simply took time to learn the mechanics instead of slapping on the same set that 90% of people where in the ladder and buying every buff imaginable without knowing the mechanics of what they actually do.

I still suggest making some of the new gear based around leveling that way hunters would possibly want to dabbling in pvp to earn some shiny new gear. PvP'rs are constantly leveling and we do NOT complain about it. So I don't see the problem here. If you want something new and shiny then EARN IT

[EvilTrace]

I have one question:

Does pvp cost stamina?

Answer: Yes

So: Sometimes the ladder will cost me upwards of 5k stam per ladder. To buff and hit and actually work for tokens when my ladder is active is very difficult. To sometimes do this and at the end be sleeping when the ladder resets to gain 1 token is well lets just say not very rewarding. So if someone were to theoretically get 1 token per ladder reset...the ladder were to reset every 2 days...and they were to have to spend 5k stam per ladder...that is 40 days of the ladder...100,000 stamina...to receive 20 tokens. 20 tokens gets you 1 gwyrd hatchling. Which isn't enough to make 1 high level item worth 70 fsps. I am not even going to mention the xp loss and the stamina needed to get back up to a level. 70 fsps is 1750 stamina. Doesn't seem that profitable now does it.

Now I am going with the worst case senario here. But when ladders are active. Players have to fight for them. Just because people see inactivity...like my ladder at the moment, I think thank god even if I lose I can get 2 tokens. After all those rounds of fighting and working hard for the tokens...its more of a breather and a chance for me to explore other parts of the game whilst still been able to make a small profit if any. I would say more likely I would make a small profit if that. The ladder is certainly rewarding in more ways for me than just making items with tokens. I enjoy the banter with my ladder and the uncertainty of playing it.

If people are unhappy about the ladder...get in there and fight people for the tokens and make it harder for them to get the tokens. No one minds a good fight for it...thats why you are in the ladder (well hopefully it is anyway!)

Woops..forgot to add my point...bound gear no way. Potions...unless they were pvp useful...why there are already many useless pots out there...new rewards...yes please!

[miichael65]

First, I had to create an account so i'm now miichael65. I hope this is not permanent!!!

so you're saying that because I want to see MORE players playing the ladder and want to see more fsp spent on buffs,pots,etc that I'm a competitor of HCS and not a loyal player? WOW. you might want to look and see who's been playing the game the longest and who's done more in the game before throwing out such things. might upset people.

You want to buy pvp gear without risking your levels. we all get it. but not all of us agree.

The arguement that bound gear would make the current players invincible is moot. NO set is unbeatable. I beat players 1200-1300 lvls above me on the BB ALL the time, sometimes buffed,sometimes not. The point is its only a matter of knowing how to do it. If players simply took time to learn the mechanics instead of slapping on the same set that 90% of people where in the ladder and buying every buff imaginable without knowing the mechanics of what they actually do.

I still suggest making some of the new gear based around leveling that way hunters would possibly want to dabbling in pvp to earn some shiny new gear. PvP'rs are constantly leveling and we do NOT complain about it. So I don't see the problem here. If you want something new and shiny then EARN IT

More players?!?!

There is no evidence of "more players" in this thread by bound proponents. The one argument that holds isn't being discussed !

 

Loyal ?!?!

Sneaking the name of a non-cow game in your post does not speak of loyalty.

 

Your contribution = best for game always and absolutely ?!?!

Many before contributed and then turn their backs so again your argument does not hold.

 

All gear beatable?

Maybe if your a mathematician, most play to be entertained and/or have fun. Also, by your argument, the buyer of such high price gear is wrong (ie your argument conflicts with an economic concept called Demand).

 

PvPers never complain?

This thread is a complaint. Now your telling jokes !?!?

 

Earn it?

FSP is evidence of earning by any economic definition (save socialism).

 

There is only three reasons for this thread (that I can think of):

 

1. Envy and/or jealousy.

Not likely, since no emotional response from "bounders" when raised.

 

2. "We have ours nobody else should get any"

Possible since argument is ignored by "bounders."

 

3. Working on behalf of Competitors (ie sabotage) 

Also possible since argument against this possibility by a "bounder" is flawed.

 

My 2 cents!! And what happened to my name!!!

[hmfic]

there is no complaining in here except by you. This thread was started as an attempt to see others opinions on a subject matter and possibly show the cows that people have some ideas worth reading.

 

Oh and it takes a mathematician? really? I'm by no means the smartest person in the world nor am I a mathematician. A calculator and some common sense and its quite easy....every computer has a calculator...use it

[Maehdros]

 

 

There is only three reasons for this thread (that I can think of):

 

1. Envy and/or jealousy.

Not likely, since no emotional response from "bounders" when raised.

 

2. "We have ours nobody else should get any"

Possible since argument is ignored by "bounders."

 

3. Working on behalf of Competitors (ie sabotage) 

Also possible since argument against this possibility by a "bounder" is flawed.

 

My 2 cents!! And what happened to my name!!!

 

Not sure how envy or jealousy even play in this suggestion, debate and overall conversation.  The * we have ours* comment is totally unnessesary and uncalled for. Players in this thread have shown, they want to see MORE pvping in the ladders. Lastly, I've no idea  on what you mean by sabatoge?  

[michael65]

Not sure how envy or jealousy even play in this suggestion, debate and overall conversation.  The * we have ours* comment is totally unnessesary and uncalled for. Players in this thread have shown, they want to see MORE pvping in the ladders. Lastly, I've no idea  on what you mean by sabatoge?  

Envy or Jealousy applies when "bounders" argument relies on "some PvPers are getting rich" argument.

 

If "bounders" argument is ridiculous when applied to other aspects of the game, one is left with few conclusions. "We have ours" is a perfectly good conclusion given the poor arguments made by "bounders."

 

Only one "bounders" argument even suggests at more PvPing and that one is not even being discussed!!

 

Promoting an idea that not only fails PvPing but also removes demanded gear from non-PvPers sounds like sabotage to me.

 

You are too good to be supporting these (so far) failed "bounders" argument. I am left questioning your motivation.

 

As to other poster, "some PvPers are profiting" is a complaint and the main thrust (as so far stated) of "bounders" argument in this thread.

 

I have taken engineering classes and I find gear/buff/etc combinations quite difficult. And as general rule I don't like calculators on computers.