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FINAL SOLUTION for BOTH parties


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#41 Pardoux

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 16:03

Good idea, having the two systems is what I have been asking for, but I am afraid that opt-in to soft or raw PvP will make all players go to soft, so I suggest that it should be open, means you can get attacked by both systems, just my fear of everyone opt-ing in to the soft PvP

 

Sorry, but that's dumb.

 

If you split it into "raw" and "soft", opt for "soft" but can still be attacked by either, then what's the point of splitting it in the first place ? LOL


Edited by Pardoux, 30 September 2014 - 16:04.

Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#42 yotwehc

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 16:19

Currently we already have something reminding of Soft-PvP and Raw-PvP, where Raw-PvP would be the PvP-ladder. The PvP-ladder was supposed to be the playing ground of the hardcore PvP-players; with things PvP-players have requested for a while, like large level brackets. The PvP tokens were supposed to be a bonus, so levelers would have an incentive to try out the ladder too.
I do not understand btw, why the PvP-ladder did not work out for the PvP-players, maybe someone can explain that to me?

I suspect creating a Soft-PvP vs. Raw-PvP as proposed by mary4ever, might suffer the same fate as the PvP-ladder. If anything, i would suggest to keep the PvP-Ladder as it is, while pvpxp gets implemented for attacks outside the ladder.

Wow. Great idea. This would minimize the coding required. If would also be a good test. If active enough, then build the second bb.

#43 shindrak

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 16:29

Raw and Soft PvP?

I don't get it how can pvp be raw or soft... You just hit someone offline or unbuffed and drop down their whatever xp

It is all Player vs Player Victory or Defeat.

 

 

With this op suggestion i would call myself "Raw pvper"and i would like to hit for pvpxp because i know that im hitting another pvper who earned pvpxp by pvping.

not a player who doesnt engage in pvp with 0 pvpxp < this is the soft pvp!

 

 

 

I thought real pvp all about who snatch best gold hits ...


Edited by shindrak, 30 September 2014 - 16:30.


#44 bleacher12

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 17:04

I just had one of the supposedly top PVPers in the game (a player right at the top of one of the Top PVP lists) buy PVP protection and opt out of the ladder on me.

 

This would be the very same player that complained loudly on this very forum about players being allowed to do that. Can we please stop pretending about all this 'real' PVP stuff? What further evidence is required that its dead and the only reason folks want it continuing is to be able to gang up on the BB for smash parties which happens to be a favorite activity of this player.

 

You want XP loss, the new system has it, you want level loss, the new system has it, you want the challenge of playing the best at PVP, the new system promotes it. What exactly does the new system not have that the current does to demand such loyalty from PVPers? The only reason to cling on to what currently exists would be the overly vindictive and petty Player Versus Guild on the BB to strip off leveling XP and levels on a whim.

 

I think Pardoux and Davros have elaborated pretty well where the administrators want to take this game and where this idea would end up, no point in repeating it.

 

Sorry Mary, I really love and respect you but can't get behind this, I like the original intent of the game creators in having the game be Player Versus Player, singular, not Player Versus Guild that it has become and the new system shows some promise in that direction, albeit needing some work. Its time to let the old way go and embrace the change.


Edited by bleacher12, 30 September 2014 - 17:05.


#45 yodamus

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 17:46

I just had one of the supposedly top PVPers in the game (a player right at the top of one of the Top PVP lists) buy PVP protection and opt out of the ladder on me.

 

This would be the very same player that complained loudly on this very forum about players being allowed to do that. Can we please stop pretending about all this 'real' PVP stuff? What further evidence is required that its dead and the only reason folks want it continuing is to be able to gang up on the BB for smash parties which happens to be a favorite activity of this player.

 

You want XP loss, the new system has it, you want level loss, the new system has it, you want the challenge of playing the best at PVP, the new system promotes it. What exactly does the new system not have that the current does to demand such loyalty from PVPers? The only reason to cling on to what currently exists would be the overly vindictive and petty Player Versus Guild on the BB to strip off leveling XP and levels on a whim.

 

I think Pardoux and Davros have elaborated pretty well where the administrators want to take this game and where this idea would end up, no point in repeating it.

 

Sorry Mary, I really love and respect you but can't get behind this, I like the original intent of the game creators in having the game be Player Versus Player, singular, not Player Versus Guild that it has become and the new system shows some promise in that direction, albeit needing some work. Its time to let the old way go and embrace the change.

bingo !!  excellent post..we all just need to get behind 1 system..use everyone's thoughts and idea's to work out as many of the kinks as possible with the new system and go with it..so that it can be implemented as soon as possible..



#46 BadPenny

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 18:05

I just had one of the supposedly top PVPers in the game (a player right at the top of one of the Top PVP lists) buy PVP protection and opt out of the ladder on me.
 
This would be the very same player that complained loudly on this very forum about players being allowed to do that. Can we please stop pretending about all this 'real' PVP stuff? What further evidence is required that its dead and the only reason folks want it continuing is to be able to gang up on the BB for smash parties which happens to be a favorite activity of this player.
 
You want XP loss, the new system has it, you want level loss, the new system has it, you want the challenge of playing the best at PVP, the new system promotes it. What exactly does the new system not have that the current does to demand such loyalty from PVPers? The only reason to cling on to what currently exists would be the overly vindictive and petty Player Versus Guild on the BB to strip off leveling XP and levels on a whim.
 
I think Pardoux and Davros have elaborated pretty well where the administrators want to take this game and where this idea would end up, no point in repeating it.
 
Sorry Mary, I really love and respect you but can't get behind this, I like the original intent of the game creators in having the game be Player Versus Player, singular, not Player Versus Guild that it has become and the new system shows some promise in that direction, albeit needing some work. Its time to let the old way go and embrace the change.

I wasn't going to comment here, I was going to let everybody else give their take on it and reserve my judgment...  This spurs me to speak, however.  
 
This change to PvP is coming... No amount of ideas or protests will change that.  Common sense tells me that these changes won't come till next year, so there's plenty of smashing time left for those that crave it...
 
I don't bully, but I do love smashing, seeing XP and levels drop is oddly fun and exhilarating, however if it has to be removed for the betterment of all, then who am I to say differently?  I care about this game... It's an important part of my life... It saddens me to think that so many are so averse to a change that can only benefit the entire FS community... I don't understand, anymore than I do the hate mail I have gotten lately concerning my position on this very issue.  Please, let's stop the bickering and the fruitless exercises in futility that threads such as these are....
 
Mary, I can't say that I know you.  I understand that you are trying to preserve a part of the game that you feel is precious... In a way, it's precious to me, too... but consider this (the rest of you, too) Fallen Sword is the only game that I play where there has ever been any XP loss involved in its PvP system... It's also the only one without a system for granting XP for PvP... the new changes address this... Who is to say it won't be better? 
 
 
Maybe BG is right... XP loss has become anathema and detrimental to the game, simply because it can be used so easily to bully...  Is it really a bad thing to try to fix this?  Sorry, but I think it can only be good for FS, no matter my personal feelings concerning this issue...


Edited by BadPenny, 30 September 2014 - 18:06.

Just one old lady's opinion

 

 

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#47 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 18:27

I just had one of the supposedly top PVPers in the game (a player right at the top of one of the Top PVP lists) buy PVP protection and opt out of the ladder on me.

Bleacher, I know about who you're talking about, and just want to say that he didn't bought PvP Protection, he just get kicked by the Ladder by some kind of mistake on FS Code, he was talking about that yesterday...He also received 2 times the tokens on the reset before yesterday, with 15 minutes interval between the prizes.

I'm not defending anyone because both (you and him) I consider my friends, just saying what I saw on guild chat.



#48 mimdala

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 18:44

I just have to say, from a leveler's perspective.... the idea of removing XP loss from PVP does not make any sense, I'm sorry. But I respect the people trying to come up with alternatives to make everyone happy, and people being open-minded and trying to roll with the change. However, I feel if enough people are against the change, then it should not occur. This change won't affect me, and as a leveler, it technically is a bonus for me. But I can't help feeling badly for the pvpers who are against this, as XP loss seems to be a rather large part of PVP (I could be wrong - there are documented cases of it happening :P). Just my piece. Kudos to the OP for proposing a compromise.


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#49 fmedic

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 18:58

I think this is a unnecessary change. I am a leveler and think people just need to grow a set and stop whining. Leave the pvp players alone and let them continue as they already are.

#50 clock96

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 19:27

Sorry, but that's dumb.
 
If you split it into "raw" and "soft", opt for "soft" but can still be attacked by either, then what's the point of splitting it in the first place ? LOL

I think you misunderstood me, I said we shouldn't split it, it should be be without opt-in, just the two systems and you choose the attack type, no opt-in system :P BG said he don't like this too and pinned the other thread so anyways BG clearly already made his decision so anything is pointless now, the last thing remaining in PvP will be removed, BG, PvPers don't like what you are going to change about PvP, just so you know, clearly you won't change your mind I know but just wanted to say

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#51 yotwehc

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 19:36

On 2nd thought, that was kinda trolly :P self delete

Edited by yotwehc, 30 September 2014 - 20:13.


#52 wil72

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 20:43

Wait, now I'm a little confused about your idea Mary =P

I'll post here my new (and easier) idea, and you tell me what you think:

 

(My thoughts)

- 2 separated Ladders (Raw and Soft) Ok, get this part.

- You can Opt-In into the Raw Ladder, but you're always inside the Soft Ladder. Why? You make a choice, if it be "Raw" then play Raw. You can hit "Soft" players for gold but nothing else. Surely you would have your own PvP lvl system in the Raw ladder?

- A player who Opt-In the raw Ladder will be part of BOTH Ladders, and will gain/lose XP and PvPXP aswell.

You should only be able to opt into one or the other in my opinion.
- If player X on the RAW Ladder hits player Y on the Soft Ladder, player Y will lose Gold and PvPXP only.

Only gold loss in my opinion, 2 different ladders 2 different types of PVP level.
- If player X hits player W at the Raw Ladder, player W will lose PvPXP and XP aswell. And gold, no PvPXP loss only XP loss I would have thought, why PvPXP loss surely that's purely Soft Ladder stuff is it not?
-

The rewards will be applied 1x for the Soft Ladder and 2x for the Raw Ladder, yes, same player can be 1st at both Ladder at the same time, receiving 3x the prizes.

Lol, talk about "cake" and eating it.

- Open Ladder as we had in the past, maybe we can work on new PvP Ranges. Explain please wasn't here then.

The Bounty Board:
- If you're on the Raw and hit a Soft for gold, he can post you, and you'll lose only PvPXP and Gold. Nope, this canny be right. You do realise that one of the biggest arguments for keeping XP loss in the game was to dish out sufficient punishment for gold theft. If you are a Raw player you play "RAW" XP loss bounties always PvPXP doesn't come into it, surely? 2 Ladders two diiferent types of PvP level ?

 

- if a Raw hit a Raw for gold, he can post you, and if the hitter is on the Raw too, you'll lose XP and PvPXP, if the hitter is on the Soft, you'll lose only PvPXP. So is a "Raw" players gold more shiny? lol. And no PvPXP, loss or gain, if both players are Raw why should there be aren't these two different Ladders? If a Raw player hits a Soft player for gold then Raw rules must apply ie XP loss bounties otherwise it's really just like switching from one ladder to the other when hitting a Soft player for gold.

 

- Just to clearify, all hits should be able to be posted, like in the past.

Soft player hitting for gold:
- No Prestige on any Soft PvP hits (only players who lose XP should be able to get 10% XP bonus).
(No idea how to deal with that to be honest, how to prevent Soft Players who don't care about PvPXP to hit for gold all day?)

What you think about it?
 

 

Cheers.

 

wil72


Edited by wil72, 30 September 2014 - 20:44.


#53 Pardoux

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 21:05

Good idea, having the two systems is what I have been asking for, but I am afraid that opt-in to soft or raw PvP will make all players go to soft, so I suggest that it should be open, means you can get attacked by both systems, just my fear of everyone opt-ing in to the soft PvP

 

 

Sorry, but that's dumb.

 

If you split it into "raw" and "soft", opt for "soft" but can still be attacked by either, then what's the point of splitting it in the first place ? LOL

 

 

I think you misunderstood me, I said we shouldn't split it, it should be be without opt-in, just the two systems and you choose the attack type, no opt-in system :P BG said he don't like this too and pinned the other thread so anyways BG clearly already made his decision so anything is pointless now, the last thing remaining in PvP will be removed, BG, PvPers don't like what you are going to change about PvP, just so you know, clearly you won't change your mind I know but just wanted to say

 

See the yellow part for my "confusion" ;)

 

RE: the cyan part ... I think that's the PvP'rs biggest fear - that the majority of players WILL go to the soft side - because they want little to nothing to do with PvP.

 

But, thankfully, it IS getting changed so your side of the fence will have to adapt :)

 

There are still goals for PvP so I still fail to see why this is SUCH a big deal ? - or is it, like others have said, that you (the generic you, not the personal you) just like annoying other players ? :)


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#54 Algoa

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 21:55

Well ill put it to you non-pvp players this way....i will care nothing for pvpxp, and since i care nothing for it, i will be going from hitting players with 400 to 500K gold on hand (since less isnt worth the xp lost on the BB), to hitting playerrs with ANY gold in hand....after all i can steal your 1000 gold and care nothing for the consequences......maybe loosing xp loss is a good idea, i can steal gold all day long, hit EVERYONE in my range, collect it all up, deposit it, and let you post your lil hearts out for my worthless pvpxp, (then get my friends who do want pvpxp to clear me and get your goldz again :D ) it is more exciting with xp loss, but i guess ALL YOUR GOLD will just have to comfort me.......dont get me wrong ill work the system long enough to get my good gearz it gives, but then its off to the races 100's for everyone holding ANY gold LOL :D ILL NEVER HAVE TO DONATE AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!


Edited by Algoa, 30 September 2014 - 21:58.

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#55 Mister Doom

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 21:59

dont get me wrong ill work the system long enough to get my good gearz it gives, but then its off to the races 100's for everyone holding ANY gold LOL :D

 

Except the plan is to link a players current amount of pvpxp to their ability to steal more gold.

So you'll have to care about your pvpxp if you want to do as you plan.

 

Which coincidentally will make you care more, so you won't end up hitting for *100's*. lol


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#56 justinian9

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 22:06

Except the plan is to link a players current amount of pvpxp to their ability to steal more gold.

So you'll have to care about your pvpxp if you want to do as you plan.

 

Which coincidentally will make you care more, so you won't end up hitting for *100's*. lol

Current plan?  Did I miss a post by BG? 



#57 Mister Doom

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 22:11

Current plan?  Did I miss a post by BG? 

 

I think you may have.

He made an approving comment when the idea was put forward (by Yotwehc) and has also mentioned it in other places, as the preferred option.


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#58 mary4ever

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 22:27

Wait, now I'm a little confused about your idea Mary =P

I'll post here my new (and easier) idea, and you tell me what you think:

- 2 separated Ladders (Raw and Soft)
- You can Opt-In into the Raw Ladder, but you're always inside the Soft Ladder.
- A player who Opt-In the raw Ladder will be part of BOTH Ladders, and will gain/lose XP and PvPXP aswell.
- If player X on the RAW Ladder hits player Y on the Soft Ladder, player Y will lose Gold and PvPXP only.
- If player X hits player W at the Raw Ladder, player W will lose PvPXP and XP aswell.

- The rewards will be applied 1x for the Soft Ladder and 2x for the Raw Ladder, yes, same player can be 1st at both Ladder at the same time, receiving 3x the prizes.
- Open Ladder as we had in the past, maybe we can work on new PvP Ranges.

The Bounty Board:
- If you're on the Raw and hit a Soft for gold, he can post you, and you'll lose only PvPXP and Gold.
- if a Raw hit a Raw for gold, he can post you, and if the hitter is on the Raw too, you'll lose XP and PvPXP, if the hitter is on the Soft, you'll lose only PvPXP.
- Just to clearify, all hits should be able to be posted, like in the past.

Soft player hitting for gold:
- No Prestige on any Soft PvP hits (only players who lose XP should be able to get 10% XP bonus).
(No idea how to deal with that to be honest, how to prevent Soft Players who don't care about PvPXP to hit for gold all day?)

What you think about it?
 

this might look like a good idea at FIRST glance BUT if raw gets Pvp xp too then this can easily be EXPLOITED, for some pvpers the PvP xp holds hardly any value and they can "feed" their friend/s on the "soft" side with the pvp xp rating until the next reset and then change pvp systems so that this time the other one can "feed" him with pvp xp + I fear the bullying would still not be solved, besides I can see other EXPLOITS too :(


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#59 Algoa

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 22:40

Except the plan is to link a players current amount of pvpxp to their ability to steal more gold.

So you'll have to care about your pvpxp if you want to do as you plan.

 

Which coincidentally will make you care more, so you won't end up hitting for *100's*. lol

i hit for hundreds now so how wouold loosing pvp xp stop me if loosing xp dosnt, and im quite sure i can keep rating long enough to rob everyone, then not care if i loose it back on the BB, ill just take it back from the BB and use it to go on a crime spree again.....ill only need a high rating long enough to rob and plunder, then who cares let it go back down and i can have fun building it back up...........and where is this "preferred option" id like to see it, so i can figure out how to make the levelers cry more then they do now and want the old system back :D


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#60 mary4ever

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 22:44

This seems like an idea for the sake of an idea so we can have raw pvp as a title........ also this is like doubling the work load on the developers. But for what. Both groups can be catered for in XPpvp.

NO, you are misunderstaning things here, raw PvP does not get any xp pvp rating !!! raw pvp gets "pvp" rating (the name is up to HCS to decide) , soft pvp gets "xp pvp" rating , therse are 2 different kinds of ratings and that is why we have 2 different kinds of bounty boards (RAW BB and SOFT BB) please read my 1st post in this topic, it's written there

 

Also what happens to all the inactive accounts etc or people who don't log in. What ladder side are they on or are they perm opted out until log in. That will drain the number of participating accounts on both sides and with splitting hard and soft pvp ........ both ladders will be lesser.

I posted: """" Once this suggestion gets approved and then implemented you will be asked to choose a side (pvp system, raw PvP or soft PvP) after your next log-in under your preferences !!! """" that means upon your next log-in you will be asked to choose a side and if you are inactive and have not logged-in after the implementation then you will not be on any PvP system until your next log-in!!! (this is to counter farming inactives)


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