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#1 paingwin

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 14:14

     Why are titan epics only purchasable through a guild with TKP, yet we earn a personal titan kills medal? Why are there so many different values to TKP when purchasing an item? Why do some items cost the value of the HP of the titan whereas some cost up to 3x the HP? And last of all, why the hell is there "the secure"?  I propose an overhaul of the titan system, that should fix some of the major problems involved with titan hunting as a whole.

 

 

     1.) Remove secures: this is no longer a needed or necessary mechanic to titan hunting. Not really sure if it ever really was. In most cases it simply means that some of these titans are going to sit in the realms until someone decides to come along and clear them for the TKP and the medal ticks. And so far I have seen a few inactive accounts receive the titan item after their account has went inactive (30 days with no activity).

 

     2.) TKP to individuals: TKP should be an individuals "resource" not a guild "resource". It just doesn't make sense to award TKP to a guild, yet award a player with a medal for titan victories. Those 2 things should be connected if you ask me. 

      

          a.) If TKP is to remain a guild controlled "resource", then the titans victories should be a guild achievement.

          b.) If players are going to continue to earn the individual medal for titan victories, then TKP should be a "resource" that players earn and control.

 

     3.) TKP based on HP of Titan: All titans should have a universal amount of HPs or there should be a set amount of HPs for each titan. Accordingly, all titan gained Epic items, should cost the amount of TKP that a titan has.

 

         (Example #1) Skaldir the Chill has 4500 HP (kills until defeated). Skaldir the Chill should award 4500 TKP, awarded to everyone who attacked it in accordance with how many kills they had on it. And each item purchased with TKP should cost 4500 TKP from the "vendor".

 

         (Example #2) Currently the Tsukiyaomo has about 5,000 - 8,000 HPs until it is defeated, yet it costs 12,000 TKP to buy it. 12,000 TKP to buy an item, or 2,500 - 4,000 kills to "secure". Seems a little bit of an easy choice to make.....

 

     4.) 7 day cooldown: If all of the items above are taken into account then there is no need for a cooldown since everyone will be hunting for the TKP to buy the items.

 

     Just a few ideas on the way it should be.


Edited by paingwin, 20 August 2019 - 14:45.


#2 LordOfRuin

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 18:59

I have to say I can't agree with most of what you have said.. Here are my thoughts on your thoughts...

 

1 - I view the Secures system as a method of allowing guilds/players with fewer resources a shot at obtaining the drop even though they are effectively 'outclassed' due to e.g. fewer players or less powerful potions. If the Titan had to be killed off entirely by a single guild or player to get the drop we would end up with large guilds monopolising that part of the game, and virtually all rewards would be via the TKP system. The way it stands, once secured there are nearly half the Kills left for someone to collect towards obtaining the drop via TKP accumulation. If a player really cannot wait for the drop after a secure, perhaps they should go back and finish it off themselves. Drops going to inactive players? I put that on active players not being interested enough (*edit* - or too busy doing other things - see sohail94's comments below) to finish the Titan off, not on the system itself.

 

2 - Titan hunting was originally intended to be a guild activity involving teamwork. In addition to the point I make in ( 1 ) the TKP system is so a guild can reward it's team members proportionately. The individual medal was so individual players get a little extra recognition for their contributions. Multiple and frequent Titan spawns (remember when Titans came out one at a a time, weeks apart and were an 'Event'?) combined with the introduction of immensely powerful potions and new buffs (e.g. Titan Doubler) have made solo Titan hunting possible. I see no issue with the current systems unless the player wants instant rewards/drops, in which case see the penultimate part of my response to point 1.

 

3 - I also wondered about this, but there does appear to be a (loose) relationship between Kills required and item value (there ARE exceptions, e.g. The Hunted Cow) - again I have no issues with this.. variety is good, if someone doesn't like the total required, simply don't hunt it. It is the same for everyone, so the playing field is level. If all titans were identical that would homogenise the activity. Not sure that is a good thing. This also backs up my argument for Secures... Big, powerful guild/player stops after a secure, leaving the rest of the TKP for a less powerful player or guild to have a chance at earning the drop via collecting TKP when they cannot compete to achieve the secure. Using The Hunted Cow as an example again - not everyone can afford the potion which when combined with ZB gives instant teleport regeneration - so if a player stops after securing it using said potion, everyone else still has a chance at a few kills, eventually resulting in obtaining the drop via TKP accumulation.

 

4 - Cooldown was introduced to prevent monopolisation of Titans, especially seasonal Titans, by large, well-resourced, powerful guilds. It is a good thing.

 

 

I would suggest the current system works fine, and although some tweaking (nothing actually springs to mind) or additions (Guild TH Achievement for example) might improve it, I for one am generally happy with the way it is and would suggest that an 'overhaul' is unnecessary.

 

*ADDENDUM*

 

I can barely believe I am on HCS' side for once!!! There are quite a few things I would change (or change BACK to the way things always were) about the game but Titan hunting is not one of them. My vote is leave it alone, or make minimal additions (Guild Achievement?).

 

PS - I am an active Titan Hunter and regularly finish off Titans that have been secured by others if there are no 'fresh' ones available... Although less profitable than securing, it is still more rewarding than gold hunting!!

 

*EDIT* - by 'active' I mean regular and consistent.. today (day of original post by paingwin) I secured 4 titans (zeroing my stam or it would have been 5) - a first for me, an accident of spawning times combined with other activities distracting players I imagine.... one of which has already been cleared and has re-spawned -  it was a fuvy.. so hardly a high value drop... nuff said


Edited by LordOfRuin, 21 August 2019 - 10:16.


#3 sohail94

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 20:59

Agree with above post, system works, titans still keep getting killed - not as quick as before but not as many active players as before either.

Just the hunted cow + seasonals where it is contested since they have the most value, the rest still get hunted since everyone has a different idea about worth/value, for those who see stamina as free then any titan drop is rewarding regardless of how little most sell for nowadays, the problem that's talked about is how long they take to get cleared up - never seen an actual titan hunter complain about this - they either solo and wait or clean up to get a fresh spawn - complains come from the guy who missed the chance to solo and doesn't want to clean it up for a new spawn or impatient.

Sometimes a titan will sit for a really long time, usually becuase a global event or a double xp event is more important than clearing a titan that's not going anywhere, this a natural response to the low prices, not worth clearing up, once prices rise a bit it becomes more feasible to clear and is cleared.

 

The TKP requirements are already based on titan HP - roughly 1.85 x Titan HP, tsuki and anything above it usually have 6100-6700 HP, all need 12000TKP for the drop, same formula for the rest - about 2x the HP = TKP needed - seasonals are half what they would be, in practice you would need 3 second place finishes to obtain a drop, could maybe revise the TKP requirements downwards to make it only need 2 hunts - would need to drop the totals by 25%-30%.

 

Individual TKP sounds good but something BG has said is not happening, it would mean removing titan hunting from guilds and having some sort of individual TKP store for players, I think it works well how it is now, a guild titan killing achievement would be welcome, more of a guild thing to hunt titans than rats lol.



#4 activeh1

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 00:05

still think titans should be a guild thing ,and solo players should never of being able to solo them

 

pointless trying to get cooldown removed ,has being argued to death and it there for a reason 

 

i agree it should be a guild achi,instead of a solo one


Edited by activeh1, 21 August 2019 - 00:07.


#5 paingwin

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 12:31

I have to say I can't agree with most of what you have said.. Here are my thoughts on your thoughts...

 

1 - I view the Secures system as a method of allowing guilds/players with fewer resources a shot at obtaining the drop even though they are effectively 'outclassed' due to e.g. fewer players or less powerful potions. If the Titan had to be killed off entirely by a single guild or player to get the drop we would end up with large guilds monopolising that part of the game, and virtually all rewards would be via the TKP system. The way it stands, once secured there are nearly half the Kills left for someone to collect towards obtaining the drop via TKP accumulation. If a player really cannot wait for the drop after a secure, perhaps they should go back and finish it off themselves. Drops going to inactive players? I put that on active players not being interested enough (*edit* - or too busy doing other things - see sohail94's comments below) to finish the Titan off, not on the system itself.

 

     I honestly don't think people understand the backlash caused by the 50% titan secure mechanic. I'll simply use round  numbers just so the math is easier to understand and explain.

 

     If a Fuvya titan spawns with 5000 HP, that means that you only have to kill it 2501 times to secure an item, so with half the effort, a new titan epic is already introduced into the game guaranteed. That leaves another possible 2499 kills as TKP left out there. So lets just say that 2 guilds attack this titan, 1 secures it with 2501 kills, and the other  gets 2499 kills. 

 

                                           Guild 1 = item

                                           Guild 2 = 2499 TKP + 1250 bonus TKP = 3749 TKP

 

     So basically, every third Fuvya titan nets the game 1 extra titan epic because even if the titan is secured, there are still TKP that can be earned. More items in the game, lower value, less incentive to hunt, titan stagnation.....

 

 

2 - Titan hunting was originally intended to be a guild activity involving teamwork. In addition to the point I make in ( 1 ) the TKP system is so a guild can reward it's team members proportionately. The individual medal was so individual players get a little extra recognition for their contributions. Multiple and frequent Titan spawns (remember when Titans came out one at a a time, weeks apart and were an 'Event'?) combined with the introduction of immensely powerful potions and new buffs (e.g. Titan Doubler) have made solo Titan hunting possible. I see no issue with the current systems unless the player wants instant rewards/drops, in which case see the penultimate part of my response to point 1.

 

     Yes, titan hunting WAS originally intended as a guild activity oriented event. BUT, as you said yourself with the introduction of more powerful potions, and the lowered interest and population of players it has very much turned into a solo aspect of the game. And like all other aspects of the game it should evolve with the player base. If you eliminate secures, and award titan epics based solely on TKP gained by an individual, you can ensure that only "1" titan item per spawn is added to the game. 

 

 

3 - I also wondered about this, but there does appear to be a (loose) relationship between Kills required and item value (there ARE exceptions, e.g. The Hunted Cow) - again I have no issues with this.. variety is good, if someone doesn't like the total required, simply don't hunt it. It is the same for everyone, so the playing field is level. If all titans were identical that would homogenise the activity. Not sure that is a good thing. This also backs up my argument for Secures... Big, powerful guild/player stops after a secure, leaving the rest of the TKP for a less powerful player or guild to have a chance at earning the drop via collecting TKP when they cannot compete to achieve the secure. Using The Hunted Cow as an example again - not everyone can afford the potion which when combined with ZB gives instant teleport regeneration - so if a player stops after securing it using said potion, everyone else still has a chance at a few kills, eventually resulting in obtaining the drop via TKP accumulation.

 

     Again, if titan epics are gained solely through TKP and no items are gained by doing half the work (secures), then those smaller guilds are still going to get their small amounts of TKP, and eventually get the item the same as now. There just won't be as many items dumped into the game due to 50% secure items and bonus TKP. And I also understand that not all players can afford big pots, but I also understand that those who work hard to gain FSP in game, or buy FSP keeping the game going do in fact deserve the advantages they have paid for. 

 

4 - Cooldown was introduced to prevent monopolisation of Titans, especially seasonal Titans, by large, well-resourced, powerful guilds. It is a good thing.

 

     And this one I must wholeheartedly disagree with. Cooldowns were introduced to prevent guilds that were exposed to be and proven to be using scripts from monopolizing titans. And again, the bigger, better funded guilds have put in the time, effort and money to be where they are. It's just a simple fact of life that people have a hard time swallowing, that those people deserve the rewards they get. 

 

I would suggest the current system works fine, and although some tweaking (nothing actually springs to mind) or additions (Guild TH Achievement for example) might improve it, I for one am generally happy with the way it is and would suggest that an 'overhaul' is unnecessary.

 

*ADDENDUM*

 

I can barely believe I am on HCS' side for once!!! There are quite a few things I would change (or change BACK to the way things always were) about the game but Titan hunting is not one of them. My vote is leave it alone, or make minimal additions (Guild Achievement?).

 

PS - I am an active Titan Hunter and regularly finish off Titans that have been secured by others if there are no 'fresh' ones available... Although less profitable than securing, it is still more rewarding than gold hunting!!

 

*EDIT* - by 'active' I mean regular and consistent.. today (day of original post by paingwin) I secured 4 titans (zeroing my stam or it would have been 5) - a first for me, an accident of spawning times combined with other activities distracting players I imagine.... one of which has already been cleared and has re-spawned -  it was a fuvy.. so hardly a high value drop... nuff said


Edited by paingwin, 21 August 2019 - 12:32.


#6 kitobas

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 14:50

     Why are titan epics only purchasable through a guild with TKP, yet we earn a personal titan kills medal? Why are there so many different values to TKP when purchasing an item? Why do some items cost the value of the HP of the titan whereas some cost up to 3x the HP? And last of all, why the hell is there "the secure"?  I propose an overhaul of the titan system, that should fix some of the major problems involved with titan hunting as a whole.

 

 

     1.) Remove secures: this is no longer a needed or necessary mechanic to titan hunting. Not really sure if it ever really was. In most cases it simply means that some of these titans are going to sit in the realms until someone decides to come along and clear them for the TKP and the medal ticks. And so far I have seen a few inactive accounts receive the titan item after their account has went inactive (30 days with no activity).

 

I not knowing if good idea or bad idea removing secures

 

 

   2.) TKP to individuals: TKP should be an individuals "resource" not a guild "resource". It just doesn't make sense to award TKP to a guild, yet award a player with a medal for titan victories. Those 2 things should be connected if you ask me. 

      

          a.) If TKP is to remain a guild controlled "resource", then the titans victories should be a guild achievement.

          b.) If players are going to continue to earn the individual medal for titan victories, then TKP should be a "resource" that players earn and control.

your guild mate was writing truth in forum about this many times and showing proving that titan hunting was not guild activity, proofing was one man guilds who trying lying for profit but hoofmaster knowing game and seeing truth

 

season titan event was calling one man guild titan event because they could always joining in event, players in guilds after one player give guild cooldown was getting stopping 100 of other guild members but one man guilld was alone hunting what they wanting many times they wanting

later I seeing over 20 one man guilds closing and they joining guilds for hunting titans because hoofmaster changing and making titan hunting for all community can doing, that very good

 

now everyone can joining season titan event, that very good

 

     4.) 7 day cooldown: If all of the items above are taken into account then there is no need for a cooldown since everyone will be hunting for the TKP to buy the items.

bro, if you was experience titan hunting and hunting many titans you would not saying removing cooldown

 

hcs putting cooldown because of one guild getting all secures and cheaters was all in same guild at beginning

 

all old titan hunters remembering titan cheater who was calling 'santa', he was using script that giving him teleporting before hcs give community skill teleport

santa alone was destroying all titan hunters in community and getting secure, if we was not having cooldown santa would continue getting same titan everyday, he getting banning

 

in last titan event I doing I sawing player very fast, 2 second to all titan location but player was not having teleport, I only winning because I using teleporter chest, if we not having cooldown then cheaters and players who having teleporter chest will getting many epics and other many community will be very bad for them

 

cooldown need staying for titan hunting is for all community


Edited by kitobas, 21 August 2019 - 14:51.



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