88 replies to this topic

[Blacky]

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Edited by Blacky, 13 January 2021 - 03:55.

[michael65]

You mean log into the ladder, take a mega pot, smash away with impunity 'cos you know that, unless someone flukes or takes a similar potion, you're safe and then, when the pot expires, buys PvP Protection to opt yourself out again before a reset ?

Afraid not. PvP Is part of the game. Has been since the beginning. Want to protect your XP? Use PvP Protection. PvP is not gonna be opt out.

~ Grim

p says pvp ladder opt out already exists and by your, bg, comments the opt out is confirmed.

cheapest then is 24 hr pvp protection for 200,000 gold in gold upgrade.

since pvp opt out exist, i'm saying formalize the opt out and make affordable. is not a formal opt out more honest and defensible than a secretive relatively unknown opt out. so, where is it publicized? here the second page of a smasher thread. seriously !?



edit: this is about the pvp ladder. there were at the least 5 back-to-back posts on the pvp ladder opt out, so by context i meant pvp ladder. now, some of my posts had a free-association quality by jumping from 1 idea to another which adds to confusion. i believe the argument holds.

Edited by michael65, 19 August 2020 - 02:40.

[Pardoux]

  

p says pvp ladder opt out already exists and by your, bg, comments the opt out is confirmed.

cheapest then is 24 hr pvp protection for 200,000 gold in gold upgrade.

since pvp opt out exist, i'm saying formalize the opt out and make affordable. is not a formal opt out more honest and defensible than a secretive relatively unknown opt out. so, where is it publicized? here the second page of a smasher thread. seriously !?

 

You're mixing up "PvP Ladder" which CAN be opted out from 

 

and

 

"Regular PvP" which can't be, other than by buying PvP protection

Edited by Pardoux, 19 August 2020 - 06:36.

[michael65]

The Prestige system doesn't allow for multiple hits.  Only 1 hit obtains Prestige every third day. After that a hit only nets gold, with XP loss of course for the defeated.  PvP protection negates this XP loss....  Which is available for FSP or gold in upgrades.  And Prestige is not awarded for hitting  those with PvP protection.  If the same rules are set for Smasher ticks in normal PvP, then it's simple to protect yourself from being hit, PvP Protection makes you an ineligible target.  Problem solved.
 
Ofc you could always do it like in the old days:
 
1. Secure your gold
2. Wear a proper defensive set when offline
 
Either way, if somebody is attacking you hourly, constantly, for no apparent reason but to irritate you, then the PvP system isn't your problem, it's a matter between you and that guy.  If you feel this is unwarranted attention, submit a ticket and let BG decide if action needs to be taken. 

the above is referring to smasher medal for 100 stam and defense from possible abuse.

1. if there are 5 players in range, who would get 100 stam hit? how many times? most likely weakest player at most 4 times accross proposed 3 day period. then the hits repeat for next 3 day period.

2. defensive set? so no 400 level players wearing 60 level epic for gaining stam? what about sludge brew (in AH at starting bid 10,000 dark curse 200)? an offline defensive set wouldn't hold up. i now notice deflect is not mentioned. hmm ... there's that smoke again.

[michael65]

You're mixing up "PvP Ladder" which CAN be opted out from

and

"Regular PvP" which can't be, other than buy buying PvP protection

You mean log into the ladder, take a mega pot, smash away with impunity 'cos you know that, unless someone flukes or takes a similar potion, you're safe and then, when the pot expires, buys PvP Protection to opt yourself out again before a reset ?

reads to me quite clearly. there is no confusion nor misunderstanding unless the one post is a misleading personal attack and not a statement of true actions.

i reiterate:
thanks p and active !!

edit:i did not say "regular pvp." i mentioned in previous edited post about context and my free association style. i believe argument holds.

miss the word "ladder" and some start to worry.

Edited by michael65, 19 August 2020 - 03:06.

[yghorbeviahn]

the above is referring to smasher medal for 100 stam and defense from possible abuse.

1. if there are 5 players in range, who would get 100 stam hit? how many times? most likely weakest player at most 4 times accross proposed 3 day period. then the hits repeat for next 3 day period.

 

ONE HIT every THREE DAYS will give the attacker ONE SMASHER COUNT.

 

Attacking the same player again before the 72 hours are gone will result in no Prestige or Smasher tick.

It takes about 20x100 hits Stamina to take a level outside the BB, 1 attack every 3 days is 10 per month, 1 level lost if you get attacked every 3 days for 2 months.

At the same time that's a possible 5 levels lost for the attacker on each bounty, it's a possible 100 levels (very unlikely, honestly, but for sure twice more than what the defender lost).

Any other question? Makes sense for you now? Or do you still think PvPers are going to ruin the game?

Edited by yghorbeviahn, 19 August 2020 - 03:03.

[michael65]

This game has always been a pvp game from Day 1. No amount of crying over the years has changed that.
What magic win button are you looking for in pvp (and elsewhere) that doesn't involve risk, trial, and error? Your comment about 2 ladder players driving away the third is ridiculous, as rewards are given to finishes other than first place. You aren't forced into the ladder by default, so no playing the victim here.
If you're not a fan of pvp, there are many outlets to protect yourself, but they will not and should not be free. With risk comes reward though, and the people playing the ladder you're so adamently against see their work rewarded every reset. Don't belittle their accomplishments by expecting them to go easy on you out of pity. Try engaging them, and you'd find they're a helpful, talkative bunch.
And if you don't like engaging in a friendly bit of combat, there's plenty of other online games for you to explore, like solitaire.

your argument is great and can be applied against the 100 stam hit normal pvp with pvp prestige.

what do you want? a win-win-win again button by getting smasher medal through 100 stam normal pvp, along with pvp prestige.


thanks m. your argument works better for my side. cows, they want a win-win-win again button !!

p.s. gold can be considered as converted stam. nothing "free" with the proposal. now, the other side wants a free win-win-win again button with their 100 stam hit normal pvp.

thanks again m !!

[BadPenny]

your argument is great and can be applied against the 100 stam hit normal pvp with pvp prestige.

what do you want? a win-win-win again button by getting smasher medal through 100 stam normal pvp, along with pvp prestige.


thanks m. your argument works better for my side. cows, they want a win-win-win again button !!

p.s. gold can be considered as converted stam. nothing "free" with the proposal. now, the other side wants a free win-win-win again button with their 100 stam hit normal pvp.

thanks again m !!

I fail to understand why those opposed to PvP (for themselves) think if PvP gets something new (or something returned, such as this smasher tick) it's an inherent danger to them.  One of the new players I know won't even do a PvP DQ, because they are afraid they'll lose tons of levels because of it.  

 

Even in the old days, before the ladder, when EVERY hit exchanged PvP rating between the two, it was rare that anybody was hit repeatedly, with the exception of the odd guild war (kinda miss those) or disputes between a player or 2 that got carried too far.  

 

Face it, 99.9% of all updates to the game revolve around leveling, but leveling is just one facet of the game.  Seems to me that all the win-win-win is going to that area.  PvP has been long neglected to cater to those who detest it whether through fear or lack of knowledge.  It's time it got some attention......

 

So...

How is this win-win-win?  It's something just for PvP.   

[michael65]

ONE HIT every THREE DAYS will give the attacker ONE SMASHER COUNT.
 
Attacking the same player again before the 72 hours are gone will result in no Prestige or Smasher tick.
It takes about 20x100 hits Stamina to take a level outside the BB, 1 attack every 3 days is 10 per month, 1 level lost if you get attacked every 3 days for 2 months.
At the same time that's a possible 5 levels lost for the attacker on each bounty, it's a possible 100 levels (very unlikely, honestly, but for sure twice more than what the defender lost).
Any other question? Makes sense for you now? Or do you still think PvPers are going to ruin the game?

4 × 10 = 40 or 2 levels max for my example with your contribution.

thanks for making my case. thanks y !!

and since levellers bemoan the loss of a single xp, what would be the outcome of weeks of 100 stam hits in normal pvp be?

hint:

whine complain whine
complain whine complain

on and on

(that is if we are lucky, those levellers could just leave fs to all our detriment.)

[Tilley10]

and since levellers bemoan the loss of a single xp, what would be the outcome of weeks of 100 stam hits in normal pvp be?

hint:

whine complain whine
complain whine complain

on and on

(that is if we are lucky, those levellers could just leave fs to all our detriment.)

Buy PvP protection if you don’t want to lose XP. Seems like a simple solution to me.

[michael65]

I fail to understand why those opposed to PvP (for themselves) think if PvP gets something new (or something returned, such as this smasher tick) it's an inherent danger to them.  One of the new players I know won't even do a PvP DQ, because they are afraid they'll lose tons of levels because of it.  
 
Even in the old days, before the ladder, when EVERY hit exchanged PvP rating between the two, it was rare that anybody was hit repeatedly, with the exception of the odd guild war (kinda miss those) or disputes between a player or 2 that got carried too far.  
 
Face it, 99.9% of all updates to the game revolve around leveling, but leveling is just one facet of the game.  Seems to me that all the win-win-win is going to that area.  PvP has been long neglected to cater to those who detest it whether through fear or lack of knowledge.  It's time it got some attention......
 
So...
How is this win-win-win?  It's something just for PvP.   

where is this smoke coming from?

levellers will get hit. they might complain or they might leave.

one can 100 stam hit normal pvp now. with the proposed changes, pvpers through normal pvp get:

1. a chance to get smasher medal - a win.
2. chance to get pvp prestige - another win.
3. the chance to blame the smasher medal for 100 stam hit normal pvp - still another win. it's the cows fault for the 100 stam hit normal pvp, not the attacking pvpers' fault (win-win-win).

on to another matter: are you guys and gals like cola fiends instead of caffeine/sugar it's pvp prestige?
i now remember activating pvp prestige and it was wonderful. i earned xp with ease. i tried to replicate the experience, but no avail. guildmates that i asked did not know bc pvp prestige was still new. i could not figure pvp prestige out. other pvp prestige experience did not match that wonderful experience. i did not understand pvp prestige, did not level though in a leveling guild, did waste time and stam, and felt i was addicted to pvp prestige. i dropped my search for pvp prestige when the guild manager told me to.

so, the question is are you pvp prestige fiends?

maybe, the cows can introduce player prestige open to all players.

i hear "win button." if only for pvp then not a win button, but if for all then nasty win button.
being a bit twofaced, aren't we?

i. open to levellers and pvpers - a win.
ii. if addicting as my memory and your behavior suggest, could extend life of fs - a double win.

the diff between my win button and your win button, i believe your win button will destroy fs.

[michael65]

Buy PvP protection if you don’t want to lose XP. Seems like a simple solution to me.

i was hoping this was about pvp opt out, where pvp protection gets one off the ladder - an expensive option for some. and not widely known.

however, the poster is referring to 100 stam hit for smasher medal defense. i think deflect and bb may be better though inconsistant deterrents. some players can't afford protection - would limit ability to do pvp for example. and there is the margin, not unlike marginal cost. change the cost of the marginal player and that player would be forced to leave. the number of players counted as a marginal player could be in the thousands.

[BadPenny]

Edited by BadPenny, 19 August 2020 - 06:56.

[missshiv]

maybe, the cows can introduce player prestige open to all players.

It is, through particiption. You already get allegiance tokens, hourly xp, stam, and gold gain just for logging in. You're crying about win buttons, but how many more handouts do you want?

cheapest then is 24 hr pvp protection for 200,000 gold in gold upgrade.

since pvp opt out exist, i'm saying formalize the opt out and make affordable. is not a formal opt out more honest and defensible than a secretive relatively unknown opt out. so, where is it publicized? here the second page of a smasher thread. seriously !?

Humor me here:

1. What do you consider "affordable?" if < 1 fsp is too rich for your taste?
2. Prior to this forum post, how often have you been attacked lately?

[michael65]

It is, through particiption. You already get allegiance tokens, hourly xp, stam, and gold gain just for logging in. You're crying about win buttons, but how many more handouts do you want?

Humor me here:
1. What do you consider "affordable?" if < 1 fsp is too rich for your taste?
2. Prior to this forum post, how often have you been attacked lately?

your argument supports 2 of my arguments:

i. with all these handouts, why do pvpers need to expand pvp prestige?

ii. not needed, yet seemingly desperate to expand pvp prestige. does not want to share pvp prestige. single minded desire and ignoring obvious problem. all this suggest addictive behavior. i'm saying expand the market. it works for cola companies.

again, thanks m !!
you argue for my position better than i do !!


now to your points:

1. with the lowest rung at levels 25-49, one can clearly see a 200,000 gold pvp ladder "opt out" is too expensive. what you pvpers forgot about these players? bc you pvpers need your "fix?" see cows player prestige could bring life back to fs. so back to pricing ladder opt out, i'm thinking 25,000 gold or 25-100 stam with option to pay when rejoining ladder. one can expend too much resources (gold for buffers and stam for hitting) fighting a losing battle before turning and running away. if allowing to pay on ladder rejoin, then a 200,000 gold ladder opt out could work.

as to levellers: if loss of 1 xp upsets levellers, then 1 gold (a form of converted stam) is too expensive. my position is not that pvp protection price needs to change. some levellers can't afford it. the margin.

2. prior? does that mean i can expect more unwanted attention.

[missshiv]

1. with the lowest rung at levels 25-49, one can clearly see a 200,000 gold pvp ladder "opt out" is too expensive... if allowing to pay on ladder rejoin, then a 200,000 gold ladder opt out could work.

Opting out of the ladder is free. It's literally unchecking a box that must be manually checked in the first place.

This derailed argument might make more sense in the future with proper terminology.

[BadPenny]

[snip]


now to your points:

1. with the lowest rung at levels 25-49, one can clearly see a 200,000 gold pvp ladder "opt out" is too expensive. what you pvpers forgot about these players? bc you pvpers need your "fix?" see cows player prestige could bring life back to fs. so back to pricing ladder opt out, i'm thinking 25,000 gold or 25-100 stam with option to pay when rejoining ladder. one can expend too much resources (gold for buffers and stam for hitting) fighting a losing battle before turning and running away. if allowing to pay on ladder rejoin, then a 200,000 gold ladder opt out could work.

as to levellers: if loss of 1 xp upsets levellers, then 1 gold (a form of converted stam) is too expensive. my position is not that pvp protection price needs to change. some levellers can't afford it. the margin.

2. prior? does that mean i can expect more unwanted attention.

 

I think I understand now.  You have normal PvP confused with the ladder.  One can choose whether to participate in the ladder, and opting in is the only way to do so. If you're not opted in, then you aren't on the ladder.  There is no charge to opt into or out of the ladder.  

 

Normal PvP, however is part of the game, and is open to anyone.   Prestige is also available to anybody that makes a PvP attack.

 

PvP Prestige is awarded for victories over other players (excluding PvP Arena and GvG) on attacks you initiate. Note you can only gain PvP Prestige from active players (last login < 7 days), if XP loss was applicable and only once in every 3 day period. PvP Prestige can be used to activate a skill on yourself to gain an additional xp boost!

 

 

PvP protection is granted to all new players (I believe it's 2 weeks) for free.  This protection only protects XP, and is negated if the user attacks anyone.   And yeah, it costs 200k gold (2010 FSP rate btw) or 1 FSP for 24 hours.

 

If it's too expensive for you, then you can prevent being hit for free by:

 

1. Secure your gold

2. Wear a proper offline set, instead of sitting in epics

3. If somebody specific is hitting you frequently, get your buddies together to peel 5 levels per hit, then level out of range. 

4. Do not engage in trash talk, including responding to any you have received.  

 

Just doing these 4 things will minimize your chances of being hit.  

This is what we did before Hoof finally agreed to have PvP protection.  

Edited by BadPenny, 19 August 2020 - 19:24.

[Pardoux]

I think I understand now.  You have normal PvP confused with the ladder.  One can choose whether to participate in the ladder, and opting in is the only way to do so. If you're not opted in, then you aren't on the ladder.  There is no charge to opt into or out of the ladder.  

 

Normal PvP, however is part of the game, and is open to anyone.   Prestige is also available to anybody that makes a PvP attack.

 

 

 

I tried saying that earlier Penny - hopefully he'll understand your post better

[michael65]

reads to me quite clearly. there is no confusion nor misunderstanding unless the one post is a misleading personal attack and not a statement of true actions.
i reiterate:
thanks p and active !!
edit:i did not say "regular pvp." i mentioned in previous edited post about context and my free association style. i believe argument holds.
miss the word "ladder" and some start to worry.

  

I think I understand now.  You have normal PvP confused with the ladder.  One can choose whether to participate in the ladder, and opting in is the only way to do so. If you're not opted in, then you aren't on the ladder.  There is no charge to opt into or out of the ladder.  
 
Normal PvP, however is part of the game, and is open to anyone.   Prestige is also available to anybody that makes a PvP attack.
 
PvP Prestige is awarded for victories over other players (excluding PvP Arena and GvG) on attacks you initiate. Note you can only gain PvP Prestige from active players (last login < 7 days), if XP loss was applicable and only once in every 3 day period. PvP Prestige can be used to activate a skill on yourself to gain an additional xp boost!
 
 
PvP protection is granted to all new players (I believe it's 2 weeks) for free.  This protection only protects XP, and is negated if the user attacks anyone.   And yeah, it costs 200k gold (2010 FSP rate btw) or 1 FSP for 24 hours.
 
If it's too expensive for you, then you can prevent being hit for free by:
 
1. Secure your gold
2. Wear a proper offline set, instead of sitting in epics
3. If somebody specific is hitting you frequently, get your buddies together to peel 5 levels per hit, then level out of range. 
4. Do not engage in trash talk, including responding to any you have received.  
 
Just doing these 4 things will minimize your chances of being hit.  
This is what we did before Hoof finally agreed to have PvP protection.  

  

I tried saying that earlier Penny - hopefully he'll understand your post better

as mention, i missed the word "ladder" in paragraph. there are three edits made. i believe my arguments still hold.

if pvp prestige is as settled as your post purports, then no need to change pvp prestige. right? unless one is urged to by some psychological need.

so all others can suffer as long as you get what you want. not what you said? pvpers get 100 stam hit normal pvp for smasher medal with pvp prestige. levellers have to change gear and seek protection, by context costing stam and gold. levellers suffer.

you pvpers claim a need while claiming there is no reason for similar need (see previous posts in this thread, argues for expanded prestige for pvpers but deny form of prestige for all). further, you pvpers argue for harming of fellow players and you can't see that is your position. "it's the game" but that is the point the game won't allow you to 100 stam normal pvp hit to get smasher medal with pvp prestige. the "it's the game" does not apply to pvpers?

the first step is admitting you have a problem. pvpers you can beat this.

[michael65]

You mean log into the ladder, take a mega pot, smash away with impunity 'cos you know that, unless someone flukes or takes a similar potion, you're safe and then, when the pot expires, buys PvP Protection to opt yourself out again before a reset ?

  

Opting out of the ladder is free. It's literally unchecking a box that must be manually checked in the first place.
This derailed argument might make more sense in the future with proper terminology.

thanks to p and active, it has already been established that an opt out in pvp ladder exists. cheapest form cost 200,000 gold.

i'm suggesting to formalize the process.

your "counter argument" offers little to the conversation.

i'm deeply deeply disappointed.