15 replies to this topic

[richell]

Professions are too hard to level. You should be able to level them as you increase in combat levels. the way it is at the moment means that you can be level 10 and if you're lucky have 3 or 4 weapon smithing. This of course means that you'll have no mats for armour making. This means that players have 3 choices. 

 

1. Rush to the maximum level and ignore professions until you reach it and probably never actually bother getting very high level professions before you quit.

 

2. Spend 100s of hours (and it literally is hundreds) grinding as you level which will means you'll see barely any of the content before you get bored and quit.

 

3. Don't bother just quit as it's not worth your time.

 

Another problem is one that was highlighted in a thread I read yesterday. Some one was complaining that his lvl 10 helms he had created were not selling or that he was getting terrible offers. Well guess, what, those helms are dead content. People are either doing option 1 and therefore there's no point in paying for a helm that they will out level quickly or they are going to do option 2 and make it themselves. Lets also not forget the terrible economy. Nobody has money, repair costs are ridiculous and you get barely any money from monsters or quests.

 

You may say to me that you don't want easy crafting, and that's fine for hardcore players with founders packs but as soon as you ignore casuals the game is dead. Casual players make up the bulk of the player base, they still pay for cash shop items and they will be the ones who buy your lvl 10 helms. They'll make up the bulk of the games economy (if it ever develops one) and it will put potentially new hardcore players off joining if the game is depopulated.

 

Please sort out crafting and the levelling process in general.

Edited by richell, 07 December 2013 - 14:00.

[Loaf]

Disagree.

 

The situation people seem to want with easy-mode crafting will lead to a stagnant economy where no one needs to buy gathered materials due to easy self-sufficiency.  Since the crafts become faster to raise, more people will do so which then reduces crafted item value.

 

If you are leveling a craft to keep up with your character level you should be prepared to:

1. Invest time into gathering materials yourself

2. Invest gold into acquiring materials from other players not interested in comitting to the crafting long-haul

3. Invest EP in booster potions if that option is available to you, reducing the need for #'s 1 and 2

 

If you are not hardcore, just focus on gathering professions so you can sell to the more dedicated players.  You will then have currency and/or materials to get the items you want crafted by someone else.

 

Making crafting casual will kill the game's longevity.

[Marre]

if you dont want to train professions, dont waste time on it - focus on lvling instead.

 

Crafting and gathering is time consumed as it is, and after this update its enought fast in my opinion to train it.

[richell]

Disagree.

 

The situation people seem to want with easy-mode crafting will lead to a stagnant economy where no one needs to buy gathered materials due to easy self-sufficiency.  Since the crafts become faster to raise, more people will do so which then reduces crafted item value.

 

If you are leveling a craft to keep up with your character level you should be prepared to:

1. Invest time into gathering materials yourself

2. Invest gold into acquiring materials from other players not interested in comitting to the crafting long-haul

3. Invest EP in booster potions if that option is available to you, reducing the need for #'s 1 and 2

 

If you are not hardcore, just focus on gathering professions so you can sell to the more dedicated players.  You will then have currency and/or materials to get the items you want crafted by someone else.

 

Making crafting casual will kill the game's longevity.

 

You can let people level crafting without it stagnating the economy. You can still make rare items require a grind, that's fine but why lock away normal craft able green gear for players that are not even worth selling. This still doesn't cover gathering professions though. Why should a foraging level take longer to level than actually getting a combat level? 

 

And what sort of game leaves crafting only for hardcore players anyway? This is exactly what will make people play for a few hours and quit.

Edited by richell, 07 December 2013 - 15:05.

[gui]

I don't understand why gear crafting starts at level 1. Does anyone even need gear from levels 1 - 10? It should start at level 10 (but be treated as crafting level 1 obviously). This would make it so you feel like you're crafting something that people will actually desire - and that you yourself will want to use -  and if the exp curve is kept the same, you can easily make gear for around level 20 without dozens of hours of gathering and crafting. 

 

 

 

And what sort of game leaves crafting only for hardcore players anyway? This is exactly what will make people play for a few hours and quit.

 

This is key. I remember when I would log on to Runescape for about an hour to cut some trees and at the end of my session I was about halfway through to the next level. The "casual" players make up a lot of the population of just about any game, and driving them away is not a good thing if you want a populated healthy game. 

[Medi3vil]

Disagree.

 

The situation people seem to want with easy-mode crafting will lead to a stagnant economy where no one needs to buy gathered materials due to easy self-sufficiency.  Since the crafts become faster to raise, more people will do so which then reduces crafted item value.

 

If you are leveling a craft to keep up with your character level you should be prepared to:

1. Invest time into gathering materials yourself

2. Invest gold into acquiring materials from other players not interested in comitting to the crafting long-haul

3. Invest EP in booster potions if that option is available to you, reducing the need for #'s 1 and 2

 

If you are not hardcore, just focus on gathering professions so you can sell to the more dedicated players.  You will then have currency and/or materials to get the items you want crafted by someone else.

 

Making crafting casual will kill the game's longevity.

 

completely agree.

[DirkaSnivels]

Disagree.

 

The situation people seem to want with easy-mode crafting will lead to a stagnant economy where no one needs to buy gathered materials due to easy self-sufficiency.  Since the crafts become faster to raise, more people will do so which then reduces crafted item value.

 

If you are leveling a craft to keep up with your character level you should be prepared to:

1. Invest time into gathering materials yourself

2. Invest gold into acquiring materials from other players not interested in comitting to the crafting long-haul

3. Invest EP in booster potions if that option is available to you, reducing the need for #'s 1 and 2

 

If you are not hardcore, just focus on gathering professions so you can sell to the more dedicated players.  You will then have currency and/or materials to get the items you want crafted by someone else.

 

Making crafting casual will kill the game's longevity.

 

I don't understand the point of professions if they aren't rewarding. I love professions. The first game I touched was RuneScape and skill based games are kinda my thing. But here is the issue with Eldevin so far (besides the fact it isn't a skill based game yet crafting takes exceptionally long) - there is very, very, very little incentive to invest in professions. Quests and dungeons are not only more rewarding, they take one tenth of the time it takes to level one crafting profession.

 

In vanilla WoW, professions were not tedious at all to level and because of this, the economy was actually good. The real grind came in when it involved recipes to make superior to epic quality gear. Even when you crafted regular items, you were making things that were usually quite useful to your character or someone else. There was a market for basic materials such as leather & ore as well as the products.

 

In Eldevin, people are crafting so much of the product that they are completely valueless, forcing people who care about crafting to spend tons of money or hours farming for basic materials with no chance of breaking even. And what do you really get out of it when you compare this to other activities you can do for gear? A loss. Questing and dungeons are profitable + you get gear whereas professions are the least rewarding aspect of the game.

 

Given these facts, can we really say the "crafting economy" of Eldevin (if there really is one) is more important than the actual incentive to craft? I'm okay with hardcore aspects to any game, but when those aspects aren't very rewarding and the majority of the items you make are completely valueless, there is very little incentive to continue with them. The only reason I do is because I'm insane.

 

Edit: Also, crafting doesn't have to be casual to improve the current system. Adding some rare end game recipes that require rep grinds will fix the issue. Grinding should be reserved for end game, not the beginning when you're just trying to get into it.

Edited by DirkaSnivels, 09 December 2013 - 02:30.

[richell]

Another problem I have is with forestry (this may also be with other gathering professions). Why is sap even in the game? What I don't get is why I end up with 50 wood yet only 30 sap? What's the point in the other 20 wood or what's the point in sap? A more simpler way to do things is to just give wood but at a reduced rate and remove sap entirely. It seems like an unnecessary complication. This is the same with bow strings, tattered stripes and abrasive spirit type items. Sure they make the game more realistic but they serve little purpose and are a nuisance. 

[hussey]

Another problem I have is with forestry (this may also be with other gathering professions). Why is sap even in the game? What I don't get is why I end up with 50 wood yet only 30 sap? What's the point in the other 20 wood or what's the point in sap? A more simpler way to do things is to just give wood but at a reduced rate and remove sap entirely. It seems like an unnecessary complication. This is the same with bow strings, tattered stripes and abrasive spirit type items. Sure they make the game more realistic but they serve little purpose and are a nuisance. 

Same issue with crystal cutting and skinning .

[Irradiated]

Apologies for repeating myself from another thread.  But for a crafting economy to work, not only are the above points valid but we also need a place to buy and sell other then hawking the game or forums.

 

I love crafting, but even if I make something people want to buy I dread selling this way, guessing at the prices and coordinating times.

[Elnestor]

Imho the biggest problem is, that there isn't any Market System (Auction House or Player Stores) yet. That should have been implemented at the launch.

 

Like Irradiated said, trying to sell your goods is pretty annoying at the moment.

 

For the lack of By-Materials (Wood Sap, Crystal Powder ...), you can always use some of your logs and quartz for the Daily Profession Quests. At least you get Artisan Points for that. Unfortunately that's not working for Tattered Hides.

[richell]

For all the people who think that only having crafting for hardcore players is a good economy then you're wrong. If anything it's an incredibly stagnant economy. For example, if there are 2k players and only 20 have a high level of crafting then  it effectively gives those 20 players a monopoly over craft able weapons and armours. There's no competition so what's stopping them from charging ridiculous prices or when guilds come along, only sell to guildies to stop competition from other guilds.

[Zshmaendal]

It seems like the current difficulty is just in repetition. I'd like to see some mats that are harder to find and a bit less time needed to level the crafting professions. Mind you I don't think they need to be EASY - I just think that they currently don't provide legitimate reward for time and energy used. 

Also, high level professions should give some other kind of bonus. Tailors can make really good bags. Or small buffs. Or something. 

 

Also, I think each profession should have a few bind on pickup items.

[ComradeLewis]

 

In Eldevin, people are crafting so much of the product that they are completely valueless, forcing people who care about crafting to spend tons of money or hours farming for basic materials with no chance of breaking even. And what do you really get out of it when you compare this to other activities you can do for gear? A loss. Questing and dungeons are profitable + you get gear whereas professions are the least rewarding aspect of the game.

 

Given these facts, can we really say the "crafting economy" of Eldevin (if there really is one) is more important than the actual incentive to craft? I'm okay with hardcore aspects to any game, but when those aspects aren't very rewarding and the majority of the items you make are completely valueless, there is very little incentive to continue with them. The only reason I do is because I'm insane.

 

Edit: Also, crafting doesn't have to be casual to improve the current system. Adding some rare end game recipes that require rep grinds will fix the issue. Grinding should be reserved for end game, not the beginning when you're just trying to get into it.

I completely agree. Crafting is broken in Eldevin. For every 6 days spent crafting, you are allowed 1 day of actual gameplay. This ratio is totally off and is what is driving people away from the game. After only 1 day of leveling and gaining 3 levels, I can't drag myself to craft for 6 days straight again just to match my crafting level to my character level. Furthermore, what real reward is there for tailoring anyway? Only the hats are any good; everything else is pathetic in comparison to something that I could easily acquire in a dungeon from 30 minutes of labor (which also gives exp, gold, crystals, and allows me to actually play with others).

 

I chose this game because I love crafting. I'm no slouch either, about 90% of my game time has been spent crafting. Yet I have to ask myself, "was it worth it?" Absolutely not. It was a total waste of my time. Furthermore, the people that say crafting should be left the way it is, generally have spent all of their time leveling and dungeon grinding. I guess they are scared that there will be no crafters left to make their socketed cap when they get to 40 to complete their set. People that have relatively no experience in crafting a thing since the beta version has ended.

 

Furthermore, 99.999% of items crafted are total garbage items that no one would ever want. How exactly do you create an economy based on disposable junk that everyone just NPCs first thing?

Edited by ComradeLewis, 08 December 2013 - 15:17.

[Phelim]

Another problem I have is with forestry (this may also be with other gathering professions). Why is sap even in the game? What I don't get is why I end up with 50 wood yet only 30 sap? What's the point in the other 20 wood or what's the point in sap? A more simpler way to do things is to just give wood but at a reduced rate and remove sap entirely. It seems like an unnecessary complication. This is the same with bow strings, tattered stripes and abrasive spirit type items. Sure they make the game more realistic but they serve little purpose and are a nuisance. 

You can buy sap (and/or any of the other "secondary" gatherable crafting materials) from the vendor for 5 Silver each. Of course, this will require you to purchase gold from the developers, since it's impossible to accumulate any in-game currency.

[Phelim]

... At least you get Artisan Points for that..

Super-noob off-topic: Does anyone know what Artisan Points are for?