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#1 Alteration

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 05:56

This is not a quit thread, I was pissed earlier so that was the title I made, but I edited it now.  

 

Anyway, dailies are not solo content.  They are a chore.  People do them for rewards, not for fun.  Adding more and more dailies just makes the game feel more and more like work.  Sure, people will do them.  But they will not stay for them.

 

And yes, many people leave at early levels.  That is true for all games.  Majority of players that download and try out a game are just people trying it out.  Even if you make it the best, most beautiful, most addictive starting game ever, you will still lose the majority of your players at the early levels.  

 

But there are also those players, who will speed through content, and reach end game in 2 weeks.  These are the competitive players, who want to enjoy end game fun.  Currently, the end game content in Eldevin has little replay value.  

 

There is already a very low population.  Many end game players are leaving.  There is a lack of tanks and healers for end game.  Yet every new content is forcing players to group.  There is no solo content.  

 

I do not intend to quit.  I'll still play for dailies and ASV/ARG.  Yes, just the dailies.  I don't have fun from these, and I'll choose to randomly skip them.  Once I get fabled gear, I doubt I'll even log on more than once a week (for world bosses).  But if I ever want to play again, I don't want to fall so far behind so I am doing them.  A chore.  

 

But I am done spending hours upon hours everyday looking for a group for a run.  


Edited by Alteration, 11 June 2014 - 14:42.


#2 ComradeLewis

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:44

I feel you. I haven't done anything in game for a month or so. I did check out Trappers for the day that it had a good gathering rate, but there is no reason to go back.

 

When I initially complained that TOC, Trappers, and Arena needed attention, it was along the lines of making them soloable and interesting. I was assuming since Trappers was a PvP area, that it should be focused on large group battles, but what we got was another boss. Another cookie cutter boss to do once a week. Don't we already have 5 of those? More dailies? Don't we already have too many of those?

 

As I have said before, nothing short of solo TOC and Arena with glimmering gem drops and prestige points will get me to play again. I've been pretty patient. Although there have not been any games that interest me since November, that's changing on the 20th. So, you could say that my patience is really, really close to being at an end.

 

I mean, does it really take months and months to change the entry requirements for TOC, or is it just such a low priority that no one cares? It's sad something so simple can drive away their customers.


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#3 onray24

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:58

ya i feel you im lev 26 and have yet to get a worth wile set for my lev i can get the lower ones if i solo them or help a lower lev player but finding a few to help me takes way too long wish there was solo



#4 l3fty

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:14

We've said we are going to add the solo dungeons and other solo content.

 

The problem is, there are only 7 or 8 full time developers working on Eldevin at the moment. We can't do everything at once, and some of these changes take more careful work than you might appreciate.

 

We're starting this process at the beginning. This may not benefit you immediately, however it is the intelligent thing to do as we lose the most players very early on in the game. Othalo Guardhouse has simply been rebalanced for one player, the other dungeons will have an actual solo mode; which is another system for us to make.

 

Stop making quit threads as they are against the rules of the forum.


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#5 xpwaste

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:01

Change the priorities before it's too late. :)

 

My views on twitch is more than the total online players, and youtube is more than the total players you have. been trying my best to get some people to get in, but they gradually quit.

I am not showing off, just telling the facts. :)


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#6 PhurieDae

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:22

Change the priorities before it's too late. :)

 

My views on twitch is more than the total online players, and youtube is more than the total players you have. been trying my best to get some people to get in, but they gradually quit.

I am not showing off, just telling the facts. :)

 

And that is why we are focusing on improving the game from the beginning and then moving up the levels - to keep as many players as possible. If people aren't having fun from the start, they're not going to stay until level 45.


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#7 xpwaste

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:29

Yup, that's why staying and supporting till now.


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previously:

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#8 Grimwald

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 11:11

Maybe, just maybe, you might take an look at games who also has an rather low EOC level (a level easily achieved within a couple of weeks) and how they keep the players active. Some time ago, I spoke with a friend about this game and he said "this really looks like XYZ, I am max level for ages there, and I am still playing it, as I have constantly some new things to do"

 

Yes, I can still max out some of my professions, but standing near a tree cutting it or standing nearby an fish deposit fishing it, is BORING. I want quests and task to do.

 

Untill this moment all of the events you had where based on group activity, whcih is a real bummer. At this moment I am still playing (about an hour per week or so) while in the past I was online for at least 10 or more hours per week :( Don't get me wrong, but the global events from Fallensword was wayyyy more fun then your easter event with that stupid bunny that slaughtered me, just because I didn't had dungeon gear....


Edited by Grimwald, 11 June 2014 - 11:16.


#9 ChelseaBrick

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:27

And I'm quitting...until I get home from work. Stupid work.  :ph34r:


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#10 CastChaos

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 17:59

I was very happy reading in the this week patch thread that a low level dungeon or quest or what becomes soloable. Fixing things from the beginning to upwards? Sounds perfect.

 

An MMO has a long way to go while it's still in its first years. So, after the hype of the first few days was gone for me and I started to see the flaws or such, I already started to hope that Eldevin will also be on the route like many other MMORPGs were, being better and better. My only concern is that after this uphill fun, all MMOs I checked out had their downhills and eventual fall. However, while Eldevin game content is free, I won't feel that I wasted my money (since I paid no money if it's free). Unlike at other MMORPG... ... ...

 

So, best of stregth, devs and owners!



#11 Irradiated

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 18:21

Another point to remember about end game.  We are not truly at end game, that will be level 50.  As for the content developers, if I understand correctly the priorities are as follows:

1)  Redo current content to retain new players

2)  Complete 50 cap

3)  New and improved endgame features

If this is correct, I have to agree that it's probably the best overall.  Of course I'd personally like to see endgame now, but the game needs to get and retain new players.  With this upcoming patch, we see significant improvement on the current game.  And I would guess work continues on 46-50 while the rework is in progress.

 

Once the first two items are complete, I'm sure we'll see most or all of the endgame issues disappear.  Some just by the fact we are at the real endgame.  Others because HCS can then focus their full attention.  While the discussion regarding endgame improvements is valuable, it shouldn't be the focus until we are there.

 

 more fun then your easter event with that stupid bunny that slaughtered me, just because I didn't had dungeon gear....

I loved the bunnies.  Wandering around questing or gathering, breaking it up with the occasional golden egg.  The small ones did not require dungeon gear to solo.  While taking on the boss bunny with an underpowered group led to some of the most interesting battles in the game.


Edited by Irradiated, 11 June 2014 - 18:24.

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#12 ComradeLewis

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 18:46

None of the above excuses tell me why someone couldn't spend an hour to make TOC soloable. All that needs to be done is changing the admittance requirement. Why should your senior players wait until every dungeon is revamped and other obstacles get finished a year from now in order to have some fun on their own. That's basically saying that the founders need to move on; that we are only investing in the Steam community now.

 

I had a strange thought: perhaps HC doesn't know what TOC stands for. That would be, Trial of Champions. There you go. Problem solved...


Edited by ComradeLewis, 11 June 2014 - 19:22.

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#13 Alteration

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 03:53

Another point to remember about end game.  We are not truly at end game, that will be level 50.  As for the content developers, if I understand correctly the priorities are as follows:

 

There is no true end game.  Level 50 is the end of chapter 1.  Who is to say that there will not be a chapter 2?  3?  MMO's do that all the time.  Expansions.  If level 50 is truly the end game, then Eldevin will be dead 6-12 months at most after 50 is released.  Game over.  Literally.  

 

And the areas that we are seeking improvements from are not limited to end game.  World boses, ToC, Arena, solo mobs, these are all content that scales to level.  And available to all players (or should be in the case of world bosses), not just end level gamers.  Unlike level 45 dungeons, which are fine now (except for the final boss in ARG which is still impossible to do, more than 1 month from being released).  


Edited by Alteration, 12 June 2014 - 03:56.


#14 ComradeLewis

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:01

TOC, Arena, WB and PvP are all aspects of end-game because they scale up when new content is released. Therefore, whether they work on these now, or wait until all the original players are gone, the end-game items need to be worked on. The only fuctional end-game areas all require a team of 4-5 players. Therefore, players stand around in town all day waiting for a team. That is exactly why we need one or more of these to be a solo activity. Eliminating the 2 that can't possibly be soloable, we are left with TOC and Arena.

 

TOC only needs to allow entry for 1 individual. That should be easy to program. Arena allows 1 player, but the spawn rate needs to scale to the number of players for it to be soloable after 30. Furthermore, the drops need to be worth the time invested, or no one would bother wasting their time.


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#15 Alteration

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:37

All they have to do for a quick fix is CHANGE THE LOOT TABLES.  All they have to do to make it soloable is CHANGE ENTRY REQUIREMENTS.  It's not like we are asking for ToC/Arena to be completely redone from the start.  The current system is actually quite playable already, it's just that no one wants to waste 1 hour for nothing.  Literally.  You would think this is faster and easier to do than completely revamping entire areas.  But this is a very very low priority for them.  My patience is almost up with this game.  


Edited by Alteration, 12 June 2014 - 04:38.


#16 huhbum

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:39

TL:DR version:

 

All they have to do for a quick fix is CHANGE THE LOOT TABLES. 

^ Incentivize use of current solo/smallman content by improving itemization of non-dungeon areas.

 

I agree that dailies are somewhat of a chore when they are required for progress in every aspect of the game. While I thought that the crafting dailies were an excellent boost, the dungeon daily/weekly quests, on the other hand, are something of a flawed fix for areas that have limited replay value.

 

The problem? Daily quests for dungeons actually further limit replay value, as now instead of players willing to run dungeons many times over until they acquire the necessary resources from them, they will now only run them when daily/weekly quests are available, as per the requirements to obtain rewards. This is not a good quest mechanic, however hindsight is 20/20.

 

Solo and group content life expectancy can be increased exponentially by re-visiting itemization. Why did players grind for months and years on end in games like Diablo 2, Ragnarok Online, and the like? Because of the rarity of exceptionally good items as a real reason to grind. Eldevin has great potential for a robust itemization system:

 

-Item rolls on weapons are a fantastic start, but they are only available via dungeons, and the World Boss rolls are simply not competitive in most cases.

-Armor is extremely generic, as is stat distribution on all equipment. Make these more varied, more random, and more awesome, and suddenly you go from having exhausted current content to having people hungry to grind out the best rolls for the best gear. Most importantly, at least some of these new items should be available for solo players, and there shouldn't be only one best equipment option for each armor type.

-Jewelry suffers from the same issues of being craft-only, too generic, and too limited. Offer players a chance at finding super-rare jewelry that's at least competitive with the crafted option.

-As an incentive for crafters, give them an option to modify gear to an extent, with some limitations/risks.

 

Give players a reason to go out and grind world zones like Taranuka and Azraq, and all of a sudden you don't have to spend developer time on creating solo dungeons because you've made world zones better for solo players to enjoy and be rewarded for playing.

 

I don't have much time to play these days, but I agree wholeheartedly that the requirement to group in order to obtain content gear is obstructive and not so fun when the current dungeon mechanics greatly limit who is capable and/or willing to do certain dungeons, due to the limitations of daily/weekly dungeon quests and DPS requirements versus incentive.

 

However, rather than exhaust developer resources by making brand-new solo content, I suggest instead modifying existing content through good itemization changes and drop changes to make adventuring in existing zones worthwhile!


Edited by huhbum, 12 June 2014 - 05:41.


#17 xpwaste

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:45

However, rather than exhaust developer resources by making brand-new solo content, I suggest instead modifying existing content through good itemization changes and drop changes to make adventuring in existing zones worthwhile!

There are over 40+ chapions or bosses out there in open world, and they are almost per level, they could decrease there respawn time, add some stuff on it tables or something.

Or just start working those instead of revamping the dungeons to solo mode [which forces players to grind even longer as a solo player, rather than a team player. talking about the solo dungeon mode]


Edited by xpwaste, 12 June 2014 - 05:46.

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#18 EJK

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:12

The solo dungeons are nice as long they are not better for loot, dungeon gear, dailies and such. The only reason to play those is the issue with finding no groups. (and maybe the fun to solo)

 

Even if you are working on some solo content, I got a suggestion for even funnier solo fighting:

add solo only bosses, the area can only be entered one by one, if 2 enters at same, the get split into 2 groups of 1 player. This is to prevent groups from easily getting the loot that are meant for solo.

The bosses bosses would be at 12,17,22,27,32,37,42,47

The hobgoblin and beetle are good for soloing, but they can be easily done in groups. So I expect they to be enough for the new players as they usually don't group up. 

I.e.

The level 12 boss would be some sort of beast. The entrance would be a pile of rocks. You need to click on the small hole in the pile to enter the area where the boss dwells. The boss would drop some rare weapons from the dungeon and some brand-new items i.e. a skeletal shield(level 12) that would be the best shield for that level.

 

The level 17 boss would be some sort of plagued creature that uses mage and dwells, again, in a blocked room in the sewers. The boss would also drop some rare weapons from the dungeon, along with a essence (level 17) that would be the best essence for that level. 

 

The level 22 boss would be a big wolf up on a hill at huntreal plateau. The small path leading  to  the boss would be blocked by some trees that have fallen, those trees had been a part of a forest on the down hill of the plateau and that's where the big white wolf lives. Once again you have to climb over some sort of barricade to reach the solo area.

Some mechanics the boss would have: +25% speed, as  it's a wolf. Buff 'rage' for 10 sec every ~30 sec. A attack that starts with having the wolf charging for a attack, after charged the wolf runs on the player and deals a big hit, the more the wolf has to run, the less he attack deals, also if you are very quick, you can dodge the whole attack with stepping aside just when the wolf are going to hit you. The wolf can summon some additional help too, the wolf howls and 3 smaller wolves runs on you from the woods.

The loot would be once again, some rare items from the dungeon along with some new items i.e. wolf claws, 1h weapon that would be the best 1h weapon for that level and some wolf fur gear for assassins.

I'm not too familiar with the next dungeon places so I leave it to HCS and you, the community. 


Edited by EJK, 12 June 2014 - 07:14.

IGN: Player. I usually think in longevity point of view.

 


#19 xpwaste

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 13:12

The solo dungeons are nice as long they are not better for loot, dungeon gear, dailies and such. The only reason to play those is the issue with finding no groups. (and maybe the fun to solo)

 

Even if you are working on some solo content, I got a suggestion for even funnier solo fighting:

add solo only bosses, the area can only be entered one by one, if 2 enters at same, the get split into 2 groups of 1 player. This is to prevent groups from easily getting the loot that are meant for solo.

The bosses bosses would be at 12,17,22,27,32,37,42,47

The hobgoblin and beetle are good for soloing, but they can be easily done in groups. So I expect they to be enough for the new players as they usually don't group up. 

I.e.

The level 12 boss would be some sort of beast. The entrance would be a pile of rocks. You need to click on the small hole in the pile to enter the area where the boss dwells. The boss would drop some rare weapons from the dungeon and some brand-new items i.e. a skeletal shield(level 12) that would be the best shield for that level.

 

The level 17 boss would be some sort of plagued creature that uses mage and dwells, again, in a blocked room in the sewers. The boss would also drop some rare weapons from the dungeon, along with a essence (level 17) that would be the best essence for that level. 

 

The level 22 boss would be a big wolf up on a hill at huntreal plateau. The small path leading  to  the boss would be blocked by some trees that have fallen, those trees had been a part of a forest on the down hill of the plateau and that's where the big white wolf lives. Once again you have to climb over some sort of barricade to reach the solo area.

Some mechanics the boss would have: +25% speed, as  it's a wolf. Buff 'rage' for 10 sec every ~30 sec. A attack that starts with having the wolf charging for a attack, after charged the wolf runs on the player and deals a big hit, the more the wolf has to run, the less he attack deals, also if you are very quick, you can dodge the whole attack with stepping aside just when the wolf are going to hit you. The wolf can summon some additional help too, the wolf howls and 3 smaller wolves runs on you from the woods.

The loot would be once again, some rare items from the dungeon along with some new items i.e. wolf claws, 1h weapon that would be the best 1h weapon for that level and some wolf fur gear for assassins.

I'm not too familiar with the next dungeon places so I leave it to HCS and you, the community. 

Hcs wants best loot from ascended dungeons only.

Community [atleast the ones i have talked with] wants from rare drops from non dungeons bosses.

i support community.


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#20 ComradeLewis

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 18:33

 

Solo and group content life expectancy can be increased exponentially by re-visiting itemization. Why did players grind for months and years on end in games like Diablo 2, Ragnarok Online, and the like? Because of the rarity of exceptionally good items as a real reason to grind. Eldevin has great potential for a robust itemization system:

Exactly. However, they would need to remove set bonuses and make heroics better than the typical dungeon set. Furthermore, they would need to add random stat rolls to all gear with the most variation in heroic and fabled. I don't think HC is committed enough to do that; they seem to think that dungeon sets should be their end-game armor for some reason, without any sort of stat variation. That's a far too limited  viewpoint, which has resulted in players thinking that they have "beat the game" or exhausted the majority of things to do in the game.


Edited by ComradeLewis, 12 June 2014 - 18:38.

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