13 replies to this topic

[ComradeLewis]

I generally like the Pass/Greed/Need system, but a lot of players run into others that either don't understand how the system works, have 2 different perspectives on the issue, or they simply Need everything to get a better chance at loot.

 

My suggestion: If a player chooses Need, then upon winning the item, it becomes bound. Any item won under Pass or Greed would then be unbound and sellable.

 

This would eliminate Need Ninjas that think it's OK to make a few enemies as long as they make cash. It would also make more of an economy with regards to bound items that people can do nothing but NPC at the moment.

 

I believe the issue is most apparent with Gems and Remnants. Some players Need every one of those drops, because they feel that anyone would "need" the cash from selling them. Those players would have to use a Greed roll in order to make any profit, leaving teammates that actually could use the item to obtain it.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by ComradeLewis, 03 March 2014 - 01:10.

[Malshun]

Weed them out of groups by never running with them and telling others that might be in groups to be aware of that behavior. Even if bound they would still make some cash from selling to npc for item drops.

[Truth]

How about if someone needs an item, it informs the whole party with a message asking if they agree to the "need" from that individual. If at least 2 other members agree (60% of total votes, including the individual), then he will receive the item, if they don't, it'll be considered as a "greed" roll?

 

2-3 members: 2/2 (100%) or 2/3 (67%)

4-5 members: 3/4 (75%) or 3/5 (60%)

Edited by Truth, 03 March 2014 - 01:49.

[Swiggity]

Another option would be to, every time someone "Needs" an item, have their chances of subsequent "Needs" be reduced?

[Praetor]

Another alternative that may be easy for the dev's to implement (because mainly a UI change). Once an instance is reset for entry (or "set" for initial entry) a popup appears that lets group vote to disable Need. Majority or tie wins (3/5, 2/4). Groups of 3 or less no popup -- this lets high levels farm low level instances for flakes.

 

How it works: once vote goes against permitting Need, the Need button is disabled for drops for the entire instance run. This takes care of the issue for random pickup groups. Now for groups that all know each other, they can vote to keep Need enabled so that particular members can Need certain items.

[Akadria]

There's no need to make it overly complicated. In fact it could be made simpler, just have two options: 'pass' and 'want'.

[Irradiated]

There's no need to make it overly complicated. In fact it could be made simpler, just have two options: 'pass' and 'want'.

Sounds good for gems, rems, and flakes.  But doesn't solve the issue of someone needing (wanting) all gear.

 

How about a visible popup stating exactly who needed/greeded/passed?  If it's very visible who the ninjas are rather then flashing by in chat, it becomes easier to deal with them.  (This would also work for gems/rems/flakes.  But I prefer Adadria's idea for these.)  The  popup would have to be optional, as it's just a waste of time when running with friends.

[Neon]

Just keep the system how it is, there's always going to be minor community problems, if it was the simple system a "need" and "pass" there would still be complaints about people not getting their gear. 

 

If one guy needs something it's not like it changes your bank or wealth drastically, they need one item, you kick them. Pretty simple.

 

 

There's no need to make it overly complicated.

This ^

Edited by Neon, 03 March 2014 - 20:58.

[WowRefugee]

IMO, 'Need' should simply be disabled* for Gems, Remnants and Flakes.  That would deal with 90% of the problem, not require a lot of talk-talk for random groups, and it's easy to code.  If you want to give one of the above to a particular group member, then everybody else should "Pass" on it.

 

(*Or maybe disabled for LFG-mediated random groups only.)

 

P.S.  I have heard some people claim that "Greed" is bad, and "Need" is good, so people should "Need".  In addition to the category error of bringing RL politics into the game, it just goes to show that some people will just be completely out of sync with the general social context, even while operating in good faith.  So it's better to limit the possibility that they will make a really disruptive mistake (I have seen groups fall apart over these issues).

Edited by WowRefugee, 04 March 2014 - 16:22.

[Akadria]

IMO, 'Need' should simply be disabled for Gems, Remnants and Flakes.  That would deal with 90% of the problem, not require a lot of talk-talk for random groups*, and it's easy to code.  If you want to give one of the above to a particular group member, then everybody else should "Pass" on it.

 

(*Or maybe disabled for LFG-mediated random groups only.)

Or this, yeah. Pass and want for gems, rems, and flakes; pass, want and need for equips.

Drop "greed", it's confusing to everyone who isn't familiar with the system.

[WowRefugee]

Or this, yeah. Pass and want for gems, rems, and flakes; pass, want and need for equips.

Drop "greed", it's confusing to everyone who isn't familiar with the system.

 

If the meaning of "Greed" could be clarified by relabeling it "Want", then that should be done too - and it's trivial to code.

[Susej]

The system is good, you just nned to talk it up and if someone wants a itens he just asks if he can "need", though a message saying x player won an item by needing or greeding that would kill need ninjas.

 

In another note truth gave a good suggestion since i already used all my daily likes i will quote him

 

How about if someone needs an item, it informs the whole party with a message asking if they agree to the "need" from that individual. If at least 2 other members agree (60% of total votes, including the individual), then he will receive the item, if they don't, it'll be considered as a "greed" roll?

 

2-3 members: 2/2 (100%) or 2/3 (67%)

4-5 members: 3/4 (75%) or 3/5 (60%)

[Geoh]

Starting to experience this... minimally add the option to auto-roll loot without priority (no pass/greed/need) set by group leader. Great convenience when going in for gem/remnant/flake runs and bypassing ninja looting.

 

Probably needs more thinking through (like what Comrade mentioned about bound/unbound, etc...). Some systems provide personalized loot and group loot.

 

I want the option for auto-roll cause we are trying to improve our dungeon run times. That fraction of a second pop-up is really inconvenient. For those that trust each other we can divvy loot up after.

[Fizban]

This is exactly why i only run instances with players i know and trust, i've been in groups where a warrior was trying to get boots/gloves drop, but an assassin kept needing on them, no consideration for other group members=no group for them in future, i already have a mental list of players i will not run with in any circumstances, though for low level players and those running their first instance i will try to explain the need/greed/pass system.