347 replies to this topic

[SlntScream]

crippla has a point.. I've seen people dropped 5 levels for innocent 10 stam attacks and/or for no reason other than 'their friend asked them to so they complied blindly', so Penny, unfortunately not everyone shares your view

[Davros81]

yup i have seen people delevelled for a 10 stam hit on many occasions, had it happen to myself and when I have cleared someone off the of bounty board using 10 stam hits and conserve thus trying to help said person. So, yes certain people do demand smashings for when a 10 stam hit is done.

[Removed18058]

no no no no.... We don't delevel for  10 stam hits.  PvPer's respect those who hit us.  We are the ones that are disparaged, not the other way around... I've been around this block a few times.... If you're being develed, it's for a more sinister reason

 

how about soft clearing a bounty , getting bountied and being dropped 5?

 

i've had that happen to me a couple of times aswell ...

Edited by crippla, 23 September 2014 - 10:37.

[BigGrim]

People WILL still get beaten down.

 

Perhaps. But they won't find their levels being taken away by silent, vindictive players. They'd lose PvP Rating.

 

But not punishing other pvpers for their mistakes

 

This isn't a punishment. It's trying to fix a glaring issue a lot of people are having.

 

2 questions.. what would be the point of rating ? And, would xp loss be still applied on the bounty board?

 

Rating will be used to purchase the Ladder items (which I shall be expanding regardless of whether XP Loss is removed or not), to show how good a PvPer is at PvP and it'll go towards a top rated list.

 

XP Loss would not apply on the Ladder, no.

 

Leave PVP alone! Where the heck is Hoof? He'll never agree to removing the xp loss.

 

Funny, when I spoke to him about this, he had no problem with removing XP Loss.

 

 

BG, it is not about ruining experiences.

 

If an attacking player gains only a few temporary PvP points that can be exchanged with ladder tokens for a resource item of little to no significance, some are saying that there is no point, because nothing of "value" is gained. 

 

 At the minimum having a losing player lose XP is a result that has an impact and it is THAT impact which gives the victorious player energy and excitement, a thrill.  That too is "value", especially in a game where many have lost that energy, excitement and thrill.

 

 

Except that's what a heck of a lot of people feel happens. They work hard for their levels and someone comes along and takes them for no reason.

 

Buying new items and potions, gaining medals, stealing gold and competing for Top Rating is of no value? 

 

Again, the thrill you are describing is seen as a damaging experience for the victim of the attack. Why should their value from the game be damaged so you can have yours at their expense?

 

seeing there will be no xp lose i think that all hits on a player should count for the smashers medal again !

 

Exactly!

 

[Iago]

Ah, such a complex issue to find a solution in! I recall back on Gothador, players zealed from gaining toes and ears from killing other players. Perhaps that might add some more value to attacking other players, instead of the delevelling issue, which seems to have become an anchor point for trolls.

[BigGrim]

Get rid of Experience loss, be my guest; however, get rid of …

 

1. Honor, Bastion, Deflect, and all the other pvp buffs that come with it.

(be sure to replace them of the skill tree will seem a bit anorexic)

 

2.Bounty Board needs to go as well. Eliminate it along with the medals.

-(Every one how has smasher medal and bounty board medals losses them)

-(Be sure to reimburse all players that used stamina to attack others as an apology for wasting stamina, time, and effort earning what they have today.)

 

3. PvP potions have to go; that includes special containers. That Anti deflect 400 and many others are no longer needed. No one will need to use them to protect them selves since there is no loss in experience, why bother buying them. Just get hit exchange rating and be done with your day.

 

I'm sorry but this is nonsense. PvP will still be here, it's just that instead of adversely effecting another players XP, you'll be earning and losing PvP Rating which, as mentioned above, will be used to gain new items and potions, Prestige, Top Rating, Smasher Medals and gold.

 

A game that i once played where i could play as either the bad guys or the good guys.

 

 

so there kinda is a levelers vs pvp'ers.

 

I disagree. Levelers are not angels. PvPers on the whole are not "evil". However, a fair number of their targets feel their game experience is adversely effected by the place style of PvPers. This is trying to redress that balance by allowing both parties to play as they wish without ill will on either side. Levels get to level in peace, PvPers get to fight and show their combat superiority without ruining other peoples game time. Frankly, I feel it's a win - win situation.

 

Lets go discuss leveling as passionately as we do PVP?

 

Levels don't discuss PvP because they get shouted down in the forums and attacked in game for daring to have an opinion. It happens every time. 

 

If normal XP loss is indeed removed is it possible to add a new PVP Xp system?

 

where normal XP is gained from creatures

 

PVP xp is lost and gained in PVP (I would normally go into more detail at this point, but I will see if this has any traction 1st)

 

It was something discussed but I'm not sure how this would differ from PvP rating. In the end, it got the same kind of reaction that XP Loss removal did. It is an option I would consider and will be bringing to Hoof.

 

Does this answer your question, Big G?

 

Sorry but no. Not in the slightest. All those can be covered by PvP Rating with players can fight over and gain new gear and potions, as well as earning medals, top rated, Prestige. All without negatively effecting other players experience.

 

Dropping 5 for a 10 stam hit isnt something a pvp player would do, its something a bent out of shape leveler would do.

 

Sorry but that is completely wrong. Plenty of PvPers have done this. I have seen evidence of it. Especially for daring to clear soft clears on the BB. While some PvPers are honourable, not every one is. Trying to claim otherwise is daft.

 

I recall back on Gothador, players gaining toes and ears from killing other players.   Perhaps that might add some more value to attacking other players, instead of the delevelling issue, which seems to have become an anchor point for trolls.

 

I honestly wouldn't have a problemwith suggesting a trophy page to show such an addition if players asked and Hoofmaster agreed.

[Iago]

My thoughts:

 

Why was the XP loss even included in PvP?
I don't believe it's grossly negative impact could have been foreseen upon implementation. The frequency at which we're receiving complaints regarding random de-levelling from players in a troll fashion has becoming a huge problem, and is ruining the efforts of players who often keep to themselves and do their own thing.

 

I can personally understand the concerns coming from all sides of the fence (I'm a huge PvPer myself!), and I understand the legitimate reasons how XP loss can be used to punish players from certain actions they peform, however you must understand we need to make adjustments to game features which are currently resulting in player's efforts in the game being destroyed at the hand of one or more other player's sole intent on randomly de-levelling other players for no particular reason.

 

Again, we're interested in hearing all your concerns but also welcome constructive suggestions on how we can keep those things which make PvP fun, but won't detract too much from the efforts player's have made in the game. I can also confirm Hoofmaster has been concerned regarding this issue, and echoes much of what BigGrim has said already.

 

A massive thanks to all those who have provided some awesome feedback and suggestions already!

[Removed18058]

 

I disagree. Levelers are not angels. PvPers on the whole are not "evil". However, a fair number of their targets feel their game experience is adversely effected by the place style of PvPers. This is trying to redress that balance by allowing both parties to play as they wish without ill will on either side. Levels get to level in peace, PvPers get to fight and show their combat superiority without ruining other peoples game time. Frankly, I feel it's a win - win situation.

 

 

i just said that i have this feeling of a levelers vs pvp'ers situation

 

fact being that levelers goal = gaining levels and pvp'ers goal currently seems to me as people who are trying to take those levels and stop the progress of the levelers.

 

i personally rather have the pvp'ers with a goal of indeed showing superiority being the best in their band etc etc. (this feeling i can't find anywhere i might not be looking in the right spot but i've done some searching and just couldn't find)

 

i just made the connection with good and evil i could also have made it the moon and the sun.

 

i never ment to say that pvp'ers are evil  i just wanted to make a comparison so i apologize if i mislead you there.

 

 

 

sorry i did find some pvp that did have a struggle for who would be the best here.

 

http://forums.hunted...hl=one fine day

 

 

sadly the way of pvp illustrated above is not how it actually happens ... well atleast in most cases ...

Edited by crippla, 23 September 2014 - 12:27.

[avvakum]

Why remove XP loss, just make it cost more stamina with each hit, like instant finish in Composing. It will save your time.

[RebornJedi]

Why would the current ladder be removed?

[BigGrim]

Why remove XP loss, just make it cost more stamina with each hit, like instant finish in Composing. It will save your time.

 

Which fixes exactly nothing. The attacks would still occur.

 

Why would the current ladder be removed?

 

Because it's broken and abused. With these changes, it simply would not be required.

[Mzzery]

I already said in the post you quoted on why your statement is not a fact, and felt the need to dispute your so called fact. I also said that "your statement holds true for you and anyone that views your opinion" as your opinions are not facts. 

I also already agreed that boredom would be a factor in any games downfall. So why you needed to state this again to me I don't know.

 

FS does have a "kill-ability" factor in the sense that I attack you, you then win/lose, and we rinse and repeat. Are you not killing the person you attack by bringing their health to zero? Those other games just don't cost exp as a result of your loss. I don't remember claiming that keeping it this way was a bad thing.

 

I however feel that getting rid of level exp loss, and replacing it with a system that has pvp exp that can be gained/lost with pvp attacks would be the better way to go. Yes a reward system would need to then be added  that would add value to this gain or loss of pvp xp. This would separate the pvp and leveling aspect of the game, and you wouldn't have levelers against pvpers. What would be bad about separating them if there was a system that had value for the pvp exp? Or do pvpers care to much about taking exp from a leveler?

I'm done trying to explain to you why the things I mentioned are facts. Yghorbb and Luxferre summed it up perfectly. 

[BigGrim]

I'm done trying to explain to you why the things I mentioned are facts. Yghorbb and Luxferre summed it up perfectly. 

 

Can we drop this please? This is solving nothing. They are your opinion, gained from your experiences, which you are welcome to. That does not make them more or less valid than the opinions of others gained from their experience. Now no more!

[clock96]

BG, after seeing your posts responding to everyone against removing XP loss, I hace to ask a question, are you "discussing" this with us or you already made your decision ? Just to save our time posting about it

Edited by clock96, 23 September 2014 - 12:52.

[BigGrim]

I'm asking for reasons as to why XP Loss is so important. Thus far, there are no reasons that are not covered by my posts up to this point.

[RebornJedi]

How is it broken? What's abused? I believe its just been iggored and has mediocre prizes.. Can you give me a reason why you would opt in and fight for those tokens?? What sets would you invent? Will it be worth the dedication and funds spent to make it to the top each reset?

I like the PvP bracket system.. Let's those in a span of levels to battle each other outside their small attack range.. Gives players a chance to actively fight against future equipment. Both attacking and defending.

Why wouldnt the regulated level range of the PvP bands not be required with the loss of XP loss? Do you plan of expanding the attack range? What happens to the tokens earned over the past couple years? What happens to the dominance medal?

[Iago]

BG, after seeing your posts responding to everyone against removing XP loss, I hace to ask a question, are you "discussing" this with us or you already made your decision ? Just to save our time posting about it

The XP loss is a critical issue which needs to be addressed. I think BigGrim has just been explaining why XP loss is such a plague right now to players looking simply to play the game, and not be victimised and have their gaming progress reversed by a few PvPers intent on de-levelling them as much as possible.

 

The issue to me seems to be:

- Players who aren't interested in pvp are being targeted and massively de-levelled, as an example, for simply stating an opinion on something. As such, they become frustrated and leave the game. (A de-leveller "troll")

On the other hand...

- Players who, for example, steal from a guild, can also be targeted and massively de-levelled for their actions.

 

Which is more vaild? Lets consider options here.

[BigGrim]

How is it broken? What's abused? I believe its just been iggored and has mediocre prizes.. Can you give me a reason why you would opt in and fight for those tokens?? What sets would you invent? Will it be worth the dedication and funds spent to make it to the top each reset?

If so worthless, why to players still join it just to amass the tokens by sitting there? They are aware we will be adding more to the prizes in due time. And don't claim it's ignored. We have a hell of a lot of things to work on for this game and it all takes time.

I like the PvP bracket system.. Let's those in a span of levels to battle each other outside their small attack range.. Gives players a chance to actively fight against future equipment. Both attacking and defending.

Why couldn't the brackets continue to exist for normal PvP attacks?

Do you plan of expanding the attack range? What happens to the tokens earned over the past couple years? What happens to the dominance medal?

We could well expand the attack range since this would not be impacting leveling XP. Tokens? The ones you claim are worthless? If worthless, we probably wipe the slate clean. Medal? Not sure.

[yodamus]

wow..did this explode...and from what i see in this thread.. is that many players are threatning quitting the game because they will not be able to take xp from players..meaning that is the only reason they are playing fs, it to take xp form someone and hurt their game.....if that is the only reason you are playing fs ...that is pretty sickening..there is so much more to the game..and so much more even to pvping...why is this one thing- xp loss an absolute must..or you cant play the game..mind-bogggling..

Edited by yodamus, 23 September 2014 - 13:24.

[BadPenny]

wow..did this explode...and from what i see in this thread.. is that many players are threatning quitting the game because they will not be able to take xp from players..meaning that is the only reason they are playing fs, it to take xp form someone and hurt their game.....if that is the only reason you are playing fs ...that is pretty sickening..there is so much more to the game..and so much more even to pvping...why is this one thing- xp loss an absolute must..or you cant play the game..mind-bogggling..

It isn't the removal of XP loss so much as the continued watering down of PvP in this game.  I know that FS is unique in having the XP loss for PvP anyway.  IDK why it's so much fun taking a level, but it is.  Granted, some abuse of this function of the game occurs, and sadly with frequency... and that is unconscionable... That said.  if taking XP loss out of the game comes about, I will still be here.  I will adapt, as I would hope the other PvP vets would.  Change isn't always bad, I know this.... This one is just a little hard to swallow atm.