255 replies to this topic

[Ryebred]

I believe I have an idea for a GvG update that will encourage more participation, offer recognition for excellence, and level the playing field. I don't think it would be too hard to implement as it would work using the same cool down period, and restrictions of the current GvG system.


Format: In my proposed system GvG would have two successive 5 month ladder periods each ending with a month long tournament called "GvG Seasons", then followed by a reset of the GvG rankings. *Amended*The top 25 guilds from the 5 month GvG period would receive invitations to the GvG Seasons Tournament.*Amended* The top three finishers in the tournament will take home trophies which would appear in guild achievements, and those trophies would carry with them benefits for every member of the guilds earning them. Bronze +1 stam gain per hour, Silver +2 stam gain per hour, Gold +4 stam gain per hour. The trophies, and the benefits from them are temporary and can change hands at the completion of each GvG Seasons Tournament. An additional incentive of being top 25, and qualifying for the GvG Seasons Tournament would be increased RP payout within the tournament -Double RP for outgoing wins, and Triple for successfully defending. GvG for those outside the tournament would remain an option, but no rating awarded for the month, only RP. Guilds inside the tournament would also still be allowed to GvG those outside the tournament, but for standard RP gains, and no rating transfer.

I think this format would encourage participation through potential rewards, and twice a year offer everyone a fresh start through the reset. I also feel the rewards are simple, not over the top game changers, that everyone can get behind.


Recognition: In addition to the trophies above, there would be two new medals associated with GvG. A GvG Seasons qualifying medal for each member of a qualifying guild. This medal would progress from bronze to diamond through repeat qualification at a rate decided upon by the administrators. The second medal would be the GvG dominance medal, awarded for being the number one guild. (GvG dominance medal would parallel PvP dominance in it would require XXX hours or days to achieve, and progress) Note: The medals are pride driven, offering no benefits outside of a duration boost to the "Pride" potion effects

Recognition for effort, and accomplishment in GvG is long overdue in my opinion. These are simple, and sensible additions that again I hope everyone can get behind.


Rewards: Trophies, and potential for greater RP gains for a month are the obvious.

It was important to me not to overdo the rewards end, and try to steer away from the trend many see in FS in overcompensating every game effort made. GvG has always revolved around Pride, and hopefully pride remains the driving force of the venue.

Leveling Playing Field: Resets alone give every guild the same opportunity to make it to the GvG Seasons Tournament, and the tournament itself offers a unique dynamic that could benefit deeper guild ranks, thus potentially limiting smaller GvG prototype guilds within the tournament through viable targets. This may encourage the smaller venue specific guilds to fill their ranks, or participate in the GvG Seasons Tournament potentially handicapped via having less potential guilds to initiate against. Larger guilds who would normally shy from attempting to compete have a set timetable, so jumping into any given reset period to mobilize, organize, and strut their stuff is feasible - can do just enough to get invite to tournament, then really turn it on for a chance at the hardware without having to buff 50+ people 24/7. The time limitations presented inside the month long tournament would require serious strategy; organization, team play, and planning to improve odds of success.

I've put a lot of thought into making GvG better for everyone, and trying to create the most fair system I could think of. I'm sure it's not perfect, but it is a major step in the right direction.


Side Thoughts/ Wish List: It would be cool to see new RP buff packs introduced as well for 1 click cover all buffing. Nothing crazy, just something to benefit the large (lots of members covered), and small (potentially limited human resources) guilds in making for the most possible competitive GvG venue ever. Examples are for 25 RP Invigorate 200, 25 RP KE,Coordinated ATT, Smashing Hammer 175, 25 RP LD,GS,HG,FS 175,....etc..etc. Something like that - I'm just throwing examples, these packs can be subject to community desire, but again it's important that we keep them reasonable - nothing overpowered -

I may add more to this portion. This is second time writing this idea, as first attempt last night was lost unfortunately. So if I forgot anything or think of anything else I'll amend the post. I look forward to feedback, and hope for support from both the community, and the administrators. Thank you ~ Rye

***Amended due to outstanding feedback***Three three month periods each ending with tournament then reset instead of originally proposing two five month version

50% reduced rp gains from guilds who are below the rating baseline of 1k rating. This will encourage a more competitive venue, and strengthen the value of RP. This will reduce farming, and serve a great number in the community who rather not have GvG shoved down their throats. I'm willing to take this concept a step further, and raise RP gains on successfully attacks on the top guilds to further strengthening competition incentives.

 

**The only way to earn RP in my proposed system would be win initiated conflict (no RP for loss or tie, and to further promote activity initiating guild would lose a small amount of rating on tie) and defensively RP can be earned by win or tie, nothing gained for trying and failing.**

I personally don't feel RP should be awarded for failed efforts on initiated conflicts. Defense efforts should be rewarded with RP, but when initiating losses and ties should get nothing. This will further increase Rp's value, as well as add incentive to defend, and waste the efforts of would be farmers.

 

 

Really like Kedyn's idea on an equalizer RP buff exclusive to the venue so guilds can booster defense quickly, furthering the theme of bolstering competition. Would love to iron out the details, and discuss it further.

Edited by Ryebred, 24 November 2017 - 06:18.

[LadyJ]

This is one of the most brilliant ideas I've ever seen, it will really liven up GVGs and give every guild a fighting chance at being the best, I find no flaws to this system, well done Rye, you've really outdone yourself this time!

[Josh1404]

As much as medals being introduced that I will never get bothers me I think this is a fantastic idea. Rewards excellence. The medals themselves besides the obvious pride duration increase will be an incentive to those with a goal orientated play.

 

I don't have the experience or ability in GvG to cut it in these circumstances but I see no reason why those who excel in this area shouldn't be able to compete against one another.

 

Great suggestion.

 

Though I am not sure I like long duration GS or HG buff packs. LD and FS are more appropriate.

[Melons]

There is no doubt the current GvG system needs a revamp. This new system proposed by Rye keeps the same rules as the current GvG system, so it won't be hard to learn. However, it adds more incentives for guilds to participate in GvG. Plus, I think it's about time that GvG got a medal.

 

Personally, I didn't see any problems with this system, besides the issue that might arise between small guilds vs large guilds. The cows should really look at this great suggestion. 

[cucullainn]

Hmm I don't know. It's already so easy for some guilds out there. To attack other guilds that have easy targets. Then you two repeatedly punish that one target for capturing an undefended relic. Now you wish to be rewarded for it. I think this game has already made enough bad decisions.

I believe if they wish to have more players join the game. They should worry about trying to fix problems like they had over Easter. Then get the app up and running

[Ryebred]

Hmm I don't know. It's already so easy for some guilds out there. To attack other guilds that have easy targets. Then you two repeatedly punish that one target for capturing an undefended relic. Now you wish to be rewarded for it. I think this game has already made enough bad decisions.
I believe if they wish to have more players join the game. They should worry about trying to fix problems like they had over Easter. Then get the app up and running

Targeting a guild or player for a relic capture would be dancing on the line of breaking game rules. This I would never do. Do you imagine the other 19 conflicts we were running at the same exact time we're for the same cause? You are obviously just bitter, so I'll disregard the objection to my idea, and chalk it up as a reaching out defense plea that was in light of thinking up an objective criticism :-P

[Chooma123]

I like this idea, although I think the time periods are a bit excessive. A 5 month "normal" season is a long long time, Which doesnt do a lot to encourage people to gvg through all of it, only the end as they try to sneak into the top 25

It would also mean for the winning guilds an "untouchable" period of 5 months where they have a guaranteed bonus without  having to do anything

 

I would suggest shorter seasons, maybe 2-3 months, the 1 month top 25 season is an ok length i think

 

apart from that I like the idea

[Ryebred]

There is no doubt the current GvG system needs a revamp. This new system proposed by Rye keeps the same rules as the current GvG system, so it won't be hard to learn. However, it adds more incentives for guilds to participate in GvG. Plus, I think it's about time that GvG got a medal.

Personally, I didn't see any problems with this system, besides the issue that might arise between small guilds vs large guilds. The cows should really look at this great suggestion.

Where being a small guild can really hurt is tournament time. Only 25 guilds in the mix means there will be an approximate maximum of 100 conflicts where rating can be exchanged, or four conflicts per opponent PROVIDED your guild can even initiate against all of them. This was my solution for small venue guild dominance being an issue.

In addition to that guilds with thicker ranks have more potential buffers, scouts, and ability to have more hitters at once potentially for quicker side completion of hits.

I know it's not a 100% solution, but in my opinion it's an improvement and that was my goal by design.

Edited by Ryebred, 24 April 2017 - 16:36.

[Pythia]

You have to opt in to this season?  That would be a good thing, or being able to opt out of it. 

 

I'd hate to see small guilds hit so hard they give up and quit. 

 

Wish there was a way to see that all members could be online for most of the hits.

 

PS.The reason for that last comment is most of the GvGs are now done on offline players and that's a bite. Don't like it.

 

PPS. Otherwise, this is a pretty good idea.

Edited by Pythia, 24 April 2017 - 16:52.

[yotwehc]

I've always liked this tournament idea but it has to be opt in and I think you point that out in your rules above where tourney points are collected only from those within the tournament however the 5-6 months while qualifying has to also be opt in. Otherwise the guilds that qualify will be the best farmers and farming will be epic. You may also get a few guilds who defend but don't necessarily participate.

The other major issue you have is targets for those that do qualify. May not have enough. Say guild with mostly <lvl100 vs lvl 2k+ guild.

anyway, as long as farming isn't increased, kudos

[Emperor Sidd]

I can see you are trying make GVG rating into the Ladder-esque situation but 

 

 An additional incentive of being top 25, and qualifying for the GvG Seasons Tournament would be increased RP payout within the tournament -Double RP for outgoing wins, and Triple for successfully defending.  GvG for those outside the tournament would remain an option, but no rating awarded for the month, only RP.  Guilds inside the tournament would also still be allowed to GvG those outside the tournament, but for standard RP gains, and no rating transfer.  

 

This will break the RP items market and a lot of people who play solely to earn fsp might stop depending oh how bad the prices drop. So very possibly a detrimental factor, but I like idea for extra stam gain seems and its far fetched considers HCS stance on more stam gain but even max stam would give a solid benefi. 

 

 

Leveling Playing Field:  Resets alone give every guild the same opportunity to make it to the GvG Seasons Tournament, and the tournament itself offers a unique dynamic that could benefit deeper guild ranks, thus potentially limiting smaller GvG prototype guilds within the tournament through viable targets.  This may encourage the smaller venue specific guilds to fill their ranks, or participate in the GvG Seasons Tournament potentially handicapped via having less potential guilds to initiate against.  Larger guilds who would normally shy from attempting to compete have a set timetable, so jumping into any given reset period to mobilize, organize, and strut their stuff is feasible - can do just enough to get invite to tournament, then really turn it on for a chance at the hardware without having to buff 50+ people 24/7.  The time limitations presented inside the month long tournament would require serious strategy; organization, team play, and planning to improve odds of success.

 

This is one paragraph that doesn't add up, what do you mean by 'leveling' ? You say reset as if it is the kill streak counter we are talking about and everyone has equal chance against a "dumb" creature. If we do implement this in this specific design, it will simply achieve your desire to prove RA No1 and throw you an extra medal and rp. If you really wanna follow a leveled playing field. Integrate the Ladder system even further, instead of level brackets make it based on number of members in the guild. So RA can prove themselve against sizable opponents and leveler guilds against leveler guilds. 

 

 

Side Thoughts/ Wish List:  It would be cool to see new RP buff packs introduced as well for 1 click cover all buffing.  Nothing crazy, just something to benefit the large (lots of members covered), and small (potentially limited human resources) guilds in making for the most possible competitive GvG venue ever.  Examples are for 25 RP Invigorate 200, 25 RP KE,Coordinated ATT, Smashing Hammer 175, 25 RP LD,GS,HG,FS 175,....etc..etc.  Something like that - I'm just throwing examples, these packs can be subject to community desire, but again it's important that we keep them reasonable - nothing overpowered -

 

 

 I like this idea very much, if you don't mind me suggesting an idea, and I know its already flawed but, instead of double or triple RP rewards, create a new reward point currency that can solely be used to by a new set of buff packs. But the flaw is people will complain outside the 25 , that its unfair since they don't have access to it.

[Ryebred]

The problem with an opt in GvG system is that the game lacks the active population to support such.  It would however skyrocket the value of RP, given it would be than only attainable through opt in.  So while I'd get rich, I would hate to see the venue I enjoy most become as lifeless as the PvP ladder.  

[Chooma123]

This is one paragraph that doesn't add up, what do you mean by 'leveling' ? You say reset as if it is the kill streak counter we are talking about and everyone has equal chance against a "dumb" creature. If we do implement this in this specific design, it will simply achieve your desire to prove RA No1 and throw you an extra medal and rp. If you really wanna follow a leveled playing field. Integrate the Ladder system even further, instead of level brackets make it based on number of members in the guild. So RA can prove themselve against sizable opponents and leveler guilds against leveler guilds. 

this is actually a very good point

[Chooma123]

also the problem of a decrease in RP value is to simply add new RP items, which have been needed for a long time...

[Ryebred]

I can see you are trying make GVG rating into the Ladder-esque situation but 

 

Because of the suggested Dominance medal?  Should there not be one?  If I said scratch that would the system not seem ladder-esque

 

 

This will break the RP items market and a lot of people who play solely to earn fsp might stop depending oh how bad the prices drop. So very possibly a detrimental factor, but I like idea for extra stam gain seems and its far fetched considers HCS stance on more stam gain but even max stam would give a solid benefi. 

 

This would hardly break the RP market, but scratch the double, and triple reward opportunity - is it than a better system then what exists?  What would an opt in system I see people desiring do to the RP market?  Would that be a better alternative?

 

 

This is one paragraph that doesn't add up, what do you mean by 'leveling' ? You say reset as if it is the kill streak counter we are talking about and everyone has equal chance against a "dumb" creature. If we do implement this in this specific design, it will simply achieve your desire to prove RA No1 and throw you an extra medal and rp. If you really wanna follow a leveled playing field. Integrate the Ladder system even further, instead of level brackets make it based on number of members in the guild. So RA can prove themselve against sizable opponents and leveler guilds against leveler guilds. 

 

RA is the best, I feel no desire to prove anything in my idea.  Medal, Trophy, RP mere incentives to make GvGing more attractive, something fresh.  RA beats them all - leveling, GvG, Big, Small, we straight up start at the top of the GvG rating list and hit EVERYONE we can on the way down to 20 conflicts.  Do you have an idea for GvG yourself, or thinking the current system is better then the proposed?

 

 

 

 I like this idea very much, if you don't mind me suggesting an idea, and I know its already flawed but, instead of double or triple RP rewards, create a new reward point currency that can solely be used to by a new set of buff packs. But the flaw is people will complain outside the 25 , that its unfair since they don't have access to it.

 

I don't mind the suggestion at all.  Goal is to improve the system overall.  Feel free to suggest or expound on any of my idea points.

[Ryebred]

I've always liked this tournament idea but it has to be opt in and I think you point that out in your rules above where tourney points are collected only from those within the tournament however the 5-6 months while qualifying has to also be opt in. Otherwise the guilds that qualify will be the best farmers and farming will be epic. You may also get a few guilds who defend but don't necessarily participate.

The other major issue you have is targets for those that do qualify. May not have enough. Say guild with mostly <lvl100 vs lvl 2k+ guild.

anyway, as long as farming isn't increased, kudos

The Issue with opt in is the game population doesn't support it.  What I would gain in FSP's would hardly be worth the damage it would do to the venue overall.  

 

Your next issue is one I did think of.  I believe the tournament, and desire to be competitive would create incentive for the smaller guilds like my own to fill in the ranks more.  A dynamic of the tournament is limited number of overall conflicts possible exist, 25 guilds inside a month with a 7 day cooldown is about 100 conflicts max.  If you are not able to compete with X number of guilds due to human resource restrictions, then you as a guild are making a choice to handicap yourself.  It works at the top of the mountain, and trickles all the way down.  It would be very difficult in the proposed system to dominate both the regular season, as well as the Tournament without making concerted changes to improve your own odds as a guild.

 

If farming is what the GvG ratings are today- then here at RA we farm from the closest competition to us all the way down the ranks - targets provided.  The reset theory would remove inactive guilds from the ranks, and the process from our perspective at RA would not change - Farm from top down.  Outside of here idk, but we would be looking for steady, and most lucrative increases in rating possible - thus making non participant by choice guilds as safe as ever.  

[yotwehc]

The problem with an opt in GvG system is that the game lacks the active population to support such. It would however skyrocket the value of RP, given it would be than only attainable through opt in. So while I'd get rich, I would hate to see the venue I enjoy most become as lifeless as the PvP ladder.

In this case, I am against the idea. With the advent of the simple smasher medal, pvp activity sky rocketed. I think gvg activity will so the same as not only is there a medal but some additional rewards.

I say make it opt in but no rank so all those that opt in can smash each other for the same cost. Otherwise it's just a farming contest.

[Emperor Sidd]

 

I can see you are trying make GVG rating into the Ladder-esque situation but 

 

Because of the suggested Dominance medal?  Should there not be one?  If I said scratch that would the system not seem ladder-esque 

 

I am okay with it being that way.

 

 

This will break the RP items market and a lot of people who play solely to earn fsp might stop depending oh how bad the prices drop. So very possibly a detrimental factor, but I like idea for extra stam gain seems and its far fetched considers HCS stance on more stam gain but even max stam would give a solid benefi. 

 

This would hardly break the RP market, but scratch the double, and triple reward opportunity - is it than a better system then what exists?  What would an opt in system I see people desiring do to the RP market?  Would that be a better alternative?

 

Increase in supply but same demand for the rp items will cause the prices to go down and so guilds will pay out less and and that isvery personal for GVGers aka profits. If max stam was the reward, something like 1k -5k bonus max stam which is useful to every member of the guild, it will also give incentive for the whole guild vs guild experience. If its just an incentive to opt into the system, make like participation reward for being top 25 as 1k max stam for entire guild as long as they are part of the top 25. An extra 1k stam will go so far to help lower levels and give existing members of guild the initiative to hold/ defend position.

 

This is one paragraph that doesn't add up, what do you mean by 'leveling' ? You say reset as if it is the kill streak counter we are talking about and everyone has equal chance against a "dumb" creature. If we do implement this in this specific design, it will simply achieve your desire to prove RA No1 and throw you an extra medal and rp. If you really wanna follow a leveled playing field. Integrate the Ladder system even further, instead of level brackets make it based on number of members in the guild. So RA can prove themselve against sizable opponents and leveler guilds against leveler guilds. 

 

RA is the best, I feel no desire to prove anything in my idea.  Medal, Trophy, RP mere incentives to make GvGing more attractive, something fresh.  RA beats them all - leveling, GvG, Big, Small, we straight up start at the top of the GvG rating list and hit EVERYONE we can on the way down to 20 conflicts.  Do you have an idea for GvG yourself, or thinking the current system is better then the proposed?

 

I agree RA is the best in gvg area, it was just a comment you made on the other thread which made me think, it was your reasoning behind the reset. If you beat them all, then a guild size based rating system shouldn't be problem. And if matching levels is harder in the smaller brackets, in your own words "If you are not able to compete with X number of guilds due to human resource restrictions, then you as a guild are making a choice to handicap yourself."

 

 

Edited by SiddXIV, 24 April 2017 - 18:27.

[Ryebred]

In this case, I am against the idea. With the advent of the simple smasher medal, pvp activity sky rocketed. I think gvg activity will so the same as not only is there a medal but some additional rewards.

I say make it opt in but no rank so all those that opt in can smash each other for the same cost. Otherwise it's just a farming contest.

Big difference in the smasher medal, and my idea...apples and oranges man.  There is nearly nothing lost in GvG, rating, and some gold for gear damage.  The real problem with mass activity like with the smasher medal induction doesn't exist here, or your simply being petty.  

[Pythia]

GvG comes with real damage, I know from being on the receiving end. I've had GvGs that cost me in access of 80k to mend gear.   Times that cost by however many guilds hit in a given day and I'll never get ahead in this game because  a lot of my gold would be spent on fixing gear.  Not cool at all. 

 

All my stam increases come trough my gold from hunts, that's a slow go and the more I spent on fixing gear the less I have for stam or potions.   Double not cool.