132 replies to this topic

[Oops]

I will throw an idea for "pure build" bonus.

First, your "true class" is determined by the highest talent you spent for a certain class.
For example, if you have 20 Warr-10 Ass-10 Temp, in this case you will be categorized as warr.

For "pure build" bonus, you will get a bonus based on total the points spent on "true class". Lets say, for each pts spent on "true class", you will get:
- Templar, +5Armor & +0.2% to block stun/snare (if shield is equipped)
- Warrior, +0.45% of melee attack power & +0.25% to become frenzy (if you have frenzy)
- Assassin, +0.2% of melee attack power & +0.2% of dodge
- Ranger, +0.4% of range attack power & +0.1% of MS
- Mage, +0.6% of magic attack power & +0.35% of haste
- Prophet, +0.2% to critically heal & reduce snowfall cd by -1s

This is just a raw number and raw idea.

Prophets need haste more then mages do lol 

[reinedor]

Hi folks,

Shocked
[LIST][*]Detonate now has a 50% chance to stun up from 25% for 1.5 seconds up from 1 second.[/*]

~The Eldevin Team

I don't think this change is very useful. Rangers already have 2 skills that stun a reliable 100% of the time: crystal blast (single target) and monsoon (aoe), with concussion increasing the stun and damage from crystal blast. By the time stun immunity wears off, both skills are ready to go again.

I could see some appeal in this (if the stun is aoe) since monsoon is targeted and must be timed properly. I could also see the appeal for lower level players to have an aoe stun with detonate, but since shocked is as far down as monsoon in the tree....

Since rangers have so many stun options (gale force, shocked, crystal blast/concussion, monsoon) it'd be interesting to have a talent that lowers stun immunity on targets so those options become valid rather than overlooked.

I like the changes in celestial recall (it's a conspiracy to make me spend ep to respec to a pvp build isn't it ). The changes for templars look great as well and now I'm even more scared of warriors and assassins. >.<

[Narciss]

Prophets need haste more then mages do lol 

 

Yes, but we need something to make mage attractive

[xpwaste]

I'll leave you all to how you think you guys are right.

That was my honest opinion on the pure class buffs.

 

Good luck. hope the decision taken is for the good.

[Alteration]

omg reinedor actually posted

[Simeonus]

In my opinion adrenaline rush and meteor should be buffed for PvP purposes. First skill is so easy to kite and second one impossible to land if target move. Other classes can stun, snare, silence easily.

[Alteration]

In my opinion adrenaline rush and meteor should be buffed for PvP purposes. First skill is so easy to kite and second one impossible to land if target move. Other classes can stun, snare, silence easily.

That's what you have rush + slow + snare

[Simeonus]

That's what you have rush + slow + snare

 

You can't avoid crystal arrow or eclipse. If enemy cast it then you're stunned, so why you can kite rush?

 

Same with meteor, you stay and even if warrior cast it you still can avoid when move 1-2steps away.

Edited by Simeonus, 25 June 2014 - 15:29.

[minddrag]

Those Templar changes make a big difference.  I don't think ill be ranting bout Templars no more.  Xc gotta find a new topic.  As for pure class points.  I think its a great idea.  Love the changes.  This is one thing I cant rand about.

[HolyGhost]

show mage some more love. also i agree with pure class points, elminate some quasi-builds/OP hybrids or atleast have a chance against them. mage needs some sort of talent for more useful incenerate for higher dps so its used more instead of auto attack ignite kite. dragons breath needs a shorter cooldown for sure, and arcane wrath should maybe add a crit effect to any target under 40% health and the dps effect be changed to under 40% health too.

[slipknot84]

dont let rangers be able to just remove snare ffs

[Lahara]

First of all i want to say I'm glad to sse your asking for player input before you do some balancing changes.

As plrimarly playing a healer some of my thoughts might be abit bias toward some classes and skills.

 

-It's good to see some threat changes. I'll leave the speculation out to the tanks out there to whether or not it's productive.

-War and Sin changes seen ok. Not sure of the greater impact they will have yet.

-Ranger changes see ok as well. Not sure about Recall (upgrade from Celestial Recall) removing snars.

-As everyone says, Mages need alot of love at this point. With the worst dps (of the 4 dps classes) and weakest armor they are probibily played even less than tanks at this point. With current stun machanics, the stun from Scald seems abit pointless. Would it not be better if it reduced the cast time on Boilind Blood? Or maybe make it last longer? Mages don't have any other DOT's anyway, other than from Blazing Embers. Which btw, isn't that great either if your smaming Incinerate. You will get 1 tick from DOT before it's reapplyed, So really your only getting a 10% bonus from it. An increased crit dmg might be a better use for this tallent, even if it's only from Incinerate.

-There's always room for improvement in healers. Life Breather... There has to be the worst skill somewhere and this is it. Unless it can make Resurrect instant cast no one will probibily ever put points there. Healing Touch is an ok talent though 2 points for it is alot for healer builds. Holy Vengance, not sure how i feel about this chamge. The current movement speed is ok, but no one really uses it because 1)it's pretty worthless in PVE and very few people spec into a PVP let alone a PVP healer build 2)in PVP if your being hit even running at normal speed can get you out of a fair amount of trouble, and when you can't it's because your stunned or snared and a movement increase isn't going to do you any good. As for the proposed change to increased healing power, it could be ok as well, but again, worthless in PVE as your not ussaly going to be taking hits (atleast in groups, solo play is a different story). As for PVP, it could be useful, but you run into the same problem where if your silenced and being hit your not casting anyway. I'm not sure the reason behind the change in Dogma, but if it can trigger other tallents I'll call it a win for now.

 

As for the other 2 questions reguarding ranger pets and medium sin armor..

Any changes to the ranger pets should consider the mage pets as well

One change i would like to see for all armor are the stats. It doesn't seem balanced when all of them have the same atribute points but medium has higher defence rating and armor, and heavy has even higher still. Wouldn't it make sence that for sacraficing armor you have have slightly higher stats, maybe not more vit, but more mana and sorc/range.

 

Other Issuses/Changes

8.5 sec silence with a 6 sec snar is abit op for the warsins in pvp (coupled with 2-2.5k dps) Nothing like standing there for 10 sec being able to do nothing

Give people a reason to play mages(BTW why does Ignite need to cause high threat)

Why does the Prophet tree have so many scatered points for mana regen? (I'm not going into detail about them atm)

I know 50 content is aways off, but has there been some thought on balencing for it?

[slipknot84]

without the silence and snare theres no way to kill you 

[ChelseaBrick]

How about if a player has ALL their talent points in a single tree... they unlock the pure class bonus talent "Infuriation" or something like that. (would only unlock at max level with all points assigned, so lvl 45 now, lvl 50 when that comes).

 

It would be a passive talent (would not need a point assigned to it either), then a player with infuriation would enrage when under 10% HP? kinda like bosses do.

 

When a player is infuriated, they would deal X % more damage, take X % less damage.. their regen could increase for a short time, X % move speed increase. Stuff like that.

 

I dunno, may be overpowered? but sounds like fun. 

I was going to say 100%, but I listened to Guthix and said 90% lol

[HuMoR]

First of all i want to say I'm glad to sse your asking for player input before you do some balancing changes.

As plrimarly playing a healer some of my thoughts might be abit bias toward some classes and skills.

 

-It's good to see some threat changes. I'll leave the speculation out to the tanks out there to whether or not it's productive.

-War and Sin changes seen ok. Not sure of the greater impact they will have yet.

-Ranger changes see ok as well. Not sure about Recall (upgrade from Celestial Recall) removing snars.

-As everyone says, Mages need alot of love at this point. With the worst dps (of the 4 dps classes) and weakest armor they are probibily played even less than tanks at this point. With current stun machanics, the stun from Scald seems abit pointless. Would it not be better if it reduced the cast time on Boilind Blood? Or maybe make it last longer? Mages don't have any other DOT's anyway, other than from Blazing Embers. Which btw, isn't that great either if your smaming Incinerate. You will get 1 tick from DOT before it's reapplyed, So really your only getting a 10% bonus from it. An increased crit dmg might be a better use for this tallent, even if it's only from Incinerate.

-There's always room for improvement in healers. Life Breather... There has to be the worst skill somewhere and this is it. Unless it can make Resurrect instant cast no one will probibily ever put points there. Healing Touch is an ok talent though 2 points for it is alot for healer builds. Holy Vengance, not sure how i feel about this chamge. The current movement speed is ok, but no one really uses it because 1)it's pretty worthless in PVE and very few people spec into a PVP let alone a PVP healer build 2)in PVP if your being hit even running at normal speed can get you out of a fair amount of trouble, and when you can't it's because your stunned or snared and a movement increase isn't going to do you any good. As for the proposed change to increased healing power, it could be ok as well, but again, worthless in PVE as your not ussaly going to be taking hits (atleast in groups, solo play is a different story). As for PVP, it could be useful, but you run into the same problem where if your silenced and being hit your not casting anyway. I'm not sure the reason behind the change in Dogma, but if it can trigger other tallents I'll call it a win for now.

 

As for the other 2 questions reguarding ranger pets and medium sin armor..

Any changes to the ranger pets should consider the mage pets as well

One change i would like to see for all armor are the stats. It doesn't seem balanced when all of them have the same atribute points but medium has higher defence rating and armor, and heavy has even higher still. Wouldn't it make sence that for sacraficing armor you have have slightly higher stats, maybe not more vit, but more mana and sorc/range.

 

Other Issuses/Changes

8.5 sec silence with a 6 sec snar is abit op for the warsins in pvp (coupled with 2-2.5k dps) Nothing like standing there for 10 sec being able to do nothing

Give people a reason to play mages(BTW why does Ignite need to cause high threat)

Why does the Prophet tree have so many scatered points for mana regen? (I'm not going into detail about them atm)

I know 50 content is aways off, but has there been some thought on balencing for it?

Mages need a big rework in general the class doesn't even fit the class description anymore,it needs a ranged stun/snare,and higher damage for the most common attacks.

I've pointed out the giant flaws in the lvl 50 skills a billion times,so I hope there is a rough idea how they are planning to fix those.

[KeS]

I know for a fact the pet talents for rangers its an issue of a lot of talents points being put into it for the wolf hence only a few uses it.

 

I see that some of these changes make certain skills more appealing. From playing as a warrior, some of these changes look nice. Mage however (played that as well), needs some love.

 

For assassin, there is no shop for them; only shops for rangers, mages/prophets and warriors/templars.

 

I guess for those who go the medium armor assassin route, there should be a tiny boost to dodge ratings or attack. I'll let those who actually play assassin speak on that.

[Alphamale]

Templar

 

Flame Rush

• Dmg increased to 200% up from 125%.
• Mana cost increased by 1 per level.
• Flame Rush now generates additional threat. (+100%)

Look in the Mirror

• All damaging attacks generate an additional 4 / 8 / 12 % threat.

Zealous Defender

• Stun increased to 2/3s up from 1/2.
• Damage increased to 60/160% up from 40/80%.

Bathe in Blood

• Current talent ability removed completely.
• Now Increases the damage of Impale by 15/30/45% Melee DPS.
• Each point will additionally reduce durability loss on armor pieces by 5/10/15%.

 

 

No idea why i'm even posting a suggestion but whatever... I'm only talking about templar changes as I have no idea how other classes work and what they need.

 

First off: Flame rush sounds legit, but as it's a pvp move I don't think you should let it generate aggro. 

 

Look in the mirror: This could work but keep in mind 12% is a shitload of aggro, I think it's better to do 3/6/9 instead and add the repair bonus in this (add a defensive bonus into a defensive skill (and it's less high in the templar tree, because high lvl tanks have the economy anyway and this might result in people lvling as a tank)

 

Zealots defender a longer stun? I don't think that's going to be smart as pvp templar can do a 8.5sec jolt and a 4 sec stun? That's 12.5 sec of pure death.

 

Bathe in blood? I don't think you should improve impale even more as this way you'll make tanks way to strong and to easy to generate threath. Why not make it so to allow it to hit Everyone around you. Bloodbath is barely used by tanks atm because it only hits 3 mobs. People might invest talents in it if it becomes a real AOE spell (This might help assassins in doing aoe: tip tip)

 

Taunt: to max it, it requires 4 (8 with spiked armor) That's alot of talents points for a 10 spell that's so needed as it's now.

 

Repair cost talent: Why don't add it to defensive stance? This way you assure that it's tanks benefitting from it. Because I guess that's what you'll try to achieve. To make tanking more desireable. But the way you do it now people will just be forced to go pure templar to benefit from it. And maybe you try to improve pure templars but with this changes you'll just make it not worth it to go hybrid as a templar: Because it will just make it so that hybrids will have to weaken their hybrid build to keep the templar needed bonusses (as I saw boosts in warriors who're already op)

 

Also the only people who will benefit from this changes will be pure templars. As look in the mirror is only specced in now by pure tanks as hybrids will be needing those 3 talents to hybridize and also the OP making of bloodbath will force nearly every tank to find 3 more talent points they can spend in that as how they're now the talents will be to good to deny I as a 41 templar talent will have to rework my build with 5 points now to be able to use all those op talents (the threath ones and impale/repair boost) 

 

And we asked templars to become stronger but if you add them like this you can aswell add a talent which generates 95% health of the damage you gain making it the ultimate tank. 

 

And why don't you check the build of people to see how people actually build. Because to pull strong and big you'll be needing alot of pts in templar already. 

 

Ow ye: There is no class who needs as much of a boost than mages. There is only 2 pve mages i know of: Ultramus and Johndaymon (I probly forget some) But this just proofs how weak they're in comparisson to other classes same goes for assassin they just got the luck they're unstopable in pvp

Edited by Alphamale, 25 June 2014 - 17:59.

[Alteration]

PvP perspective

 

templars - 4 sec stun with 320% dps is too much, a 3 sec stun PvP templar was killing people 3v1 already.  Remember most PvP builds will be hybrids, so PvP templars will hit 1500+ dps.  And even with this boost, avalanche will not become a PvE spell, single target, and stun doesn't work on boss anyway... nah stick with vindicate.

 

warrior - ok.  The 8.5 sec silence, 6 sec snare, 3 sec stun, and rush is balanced by the fact he has to time skills and get close to you.  warriors are very good in PvP... IF they can get close.  Instead of a damage boost after rush, make it a 4 second movement speed boost.  Chances are very very high rush will be kited.  What use is a 3 second damage boost then?  You will spend the next 3 seconds chasing anyway.  

 

sins/sinwars - completely op.  100% first initiate into a real instant cast stun (a person throwing jolt vs a person eclipsing, will have eclipsing do 2 effects - teleport and stun - before the jolter even swings his arm back to throw).  Eclipse also works differently than rushes (cannot be kited) and teleports (automatically targets the victim).  8.5 second silence where no one can actually fight back.  50%/sec dps bleed ground aoe OR 100%/sec dps bleed when try to run away.  75%/sec dps bleed with other single target skills.  Bleeds are uncounterable - ignores armor, ignores damage reduction, cannot be evaded, cannot be blocked, passes through plasma shield.  And now devastating impact will also ignore armor now?  And bleeds to heal?  Assassins have problems in PvE, not PvP, they are undisputably strongest PvPer 1v1 now, and you put in skills to make them even stronger?  Need to find a way to make assassins stronger or more useful in PvE, weaker or at least counterable in PvP, and still maintain balance for warsins and sinwars.  Goodluck with that  *jolt silence upgrades not stacking, maybe*

 

rangers - are strong in pvp, rely on kiting.  celestial recall 15 yard should be a 2nd point upgrade since 15 yards is farther than any spell right now it is basically a complete free pass to escape in any PvP situation, and removing slow is 3rd point upgrade.  removing slows AND snares at the same time is too much, especially against warriors who rely on snare and slow to get close.  

Edited by Alteration, 25 June 2014 - 18:49.

[Simeonus]

Eh.. can't agree with all these post about War/WarSin/Templar PvP OP. You forgot Mages/Prophet can full heal themself in second, their spells got lower c/d than Jolt(30s). If I won't kill Mage/Prophet during silence he use miasma, heal and poke me to death cause I won't reach him again, same with rangers with FF buff and celestial recall. They are nearly impossible to catch and also poke melee classes to death. Only Sin is OP nowday cause you can't avoid eclipse + that silence - he need PvE buff and lil PvP nerf.

 

So you should buff adrenaline rush range and/or speed & meteor cast time.

Edited by Simeonus, 25 June 2014 - 19:25.

[HolyGhost]

Eh.. can't agree with all these post about War/WarSin/Templar PvP OP. You forgot Mages/Prophet can full heal themself in second, their spells got lower c/d than Jolt(30s). If I won't kill Mage/Prophet during silence he use miasma, heal and poke me to death cause I won't reach him again, same with rangers with FF buff and celestial recall. They are nearly impossible to catch and also poke melee classes to death. Only Sin is OP nowday cause you can't avoid eclipse + that silence - he need PvE buff and lil PvP nerf.

 

So you should buff adrenaline rush range and/or speed & meteor cast time.

healings useless when you have 5 bleeds stacked on you.