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Help Promote PvP and make Fallen Sword GREAT AGAIN !


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#101 yotwehc

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 17:32

I think this was misunderstood, 

 

People log on to the game with the purpose of : 

Leveling - PvP - Chat - Inventing - SE hunting etc. 

 

Right now the state of PvP is and has been in a very claustrophobic state. People years ago 5 to 10yrs ago would log in chat - about who they would de-level - if they would and what not. People would log on to see if they were attacked.

 

However who get's PvP'd anymore? 

Who get's GvG'd anymore? 

How often is the bounty board lit up?

 

 

I'm not looking for a no holds bar game system where 1 attack will drop someone in levels No, no,no. I would just like to see people play more. I'd like to see higher level players have optional attacks and go on the bb more. Overall I just want to promote activity and PvP does all of that and more. 

It does... but at what cost? You still keep ignoring the prior failures... Smasher medal was a very simple one... People got PVP'd tons... BB was litup... There was mass outcry... similarly, PVP Seasons resulted in more pvp... more BB lights... mass outcry. How do you avoid mass outcry? Opt In but that is never on the table... why? I wonder?

 

Why not try? Have an open world PVP opt iin... PVP'rs will have tons of fun and hopefully draw more people in... I have suggested no xp loss pvp event (or perhaps endorsed someone elses idea about it) just to give people a taste for what it's like but it was crushed as an idea since it would be pillow fighting. Hard core won't let it happen. :/



#102 Kedyn

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 17:36

It does... but at what cost? You still keep ignoring the prior failures... Smasher medal was a very simple one... People got PVP'd tons... BB was litup... There was mass outcry... similarly, PVP Seasons resulted in more pvp... more BB lights... mass outcry. How do you avoid mass outcry? Opt In but that is never on the table... why? I wonder?

 

Why not try? Have an open world PVP opt iin... PVP'rs will have tons of fun and hopefully draw more people in... I have suggested no xp loss pvp event (or perhaps endorsed someone elses idea about it) just to give people a taste for what it's like but it was crushed as an idea since it would be pillow fighting. Hard core won't let it happen. :/

 

It all depends on how the game was set up. As has been said many times by Grim and Hoof, PVP is part of the game. While I understand not everyone enjoys that aspect of the game, we also saw the issue with having an open world PVP where it didn't last in SS. 

 

The ladder is an opt-in. The seasons tournaments had turned into an opt-in. PVP is part of the game as Hoof and Grim have said. PVP is fun when PVP'ing other players, but it's also a way that some players are able to make a living (ie bounty hunting, gold stealing, etc.). Why diminish an already dying aspect of the game, outside of to remove it from the game completely as a player who may not be interested in said area. 



#103 yotwehc

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 18:03

It all depends on how the game was set up. As has been said many times by Grim and Hoof, PVP is part of the game. While I understand not everyone enjoys that aspect of the game, we also saw the issue with having an open world PVP where it didn't last in SS. 

 

The ladder is an opt-in. The seasons tournaments had turned into an opt-in. PVP is part of the game as Hoof and Grim have said. PVP is fun when PVP'ing other players, but it's also a way that some players are able to make a living (ie bounty hunting, gold stealing, etc.). Why diminish an already dying aspect of the game, outside of to remove it from the game completely as a player who may not be interested in said area. 

Never said that PVP isn't part of the game. Some claim it's the only part... I think this is an MMORPG with many parts. But I think Chazz is looking for a sincere path to increase activity. HCS is in a tough spot... how do they increase pvp activity without the outcry? Study the successes and failures. Determine the root causes of the failures and try to figure out how to mitigate it. Your statement is interesting... "It's a way for some players to make a living" yet it's "dying." So what's your idea to make it vibrant without ruining the game for others?

 

Bounty hunting is failing because most don't post bounties... why? I do my part but most don't even when I offer to pay them to bounty the player.

 

Stealing gold is fun and can still be done. No one asked to remove this function so not sure why this is even brought up. Protection was changed so gold can be stolen regardless of protection.

 

I disagree with you about PVP is fun. I find it fun only when both parties are online "dancing". Hitting an offline target is shooting fish in a barrel especially in "normal" pvp. Calling that fun is disingenuous... It's easier to hit an offline target that is not prepared for an incoming attack (which most players aren't sitting in stam gear or with no buffs) then hitting monsters.

 

I think some find it fun because it gets other players mad... kinda sad that enjoyment is at the expense of other players. The real ones are the ones that want a true challenge.



#104 Pythia

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 18:46

There are still PvP hits and there are still GvGs, but both, for the most part are done against offline players in stam gain gear just trying to rebuild in a reasonable time frame.

 

When the attackers decide to run their attacks against online players that are prepaird  for the attack with gear and buffs as well as wanting to take part in it, then and only then might things become more successful. Gang bangs suck.

 

Maybe people will be happier too. 



#105 Kedyn

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 19:25

Never said that PVP isn't part of the game. Some claim it's the only part... I think this is an MMORPG with many parts. But I think Chazz is looking for a sincere path to increase activity. HCS is in a tough spot... how do they increase pvp activity without the outcry? Study the successes and failures. Determine the root causes of the failures and try to figure out how to mitigate it. Your statement is interesting... "It's a way for some players to make a living" yet it's "dying." So what's your idea to make it vibrant without ruining the game for others?

 

Bounty hunting is failing because most don't post bounties... why? I do my part but most don't even when I offer to pay them to bounty the player.

 

Stealing gold is fun and can still be done. No one asked to remove this function so not sure why this is even brought up. Protection was changed so gold can be stolen regardless of protection.

 

I disagree with you about PVP is fun. I find it fun only when both parties are online "dancing". Hitting an offline target is shooting fish in a barrel especially in "normal" pvp. Calling that fun is disingenuous... It's easier to hit an offline target that is not prepared for an incoming attack (which most players aren't sitting in stam gear or with no buffs) then hitting monsters.

 

I think some find it fun because it gets other players mad... kinda sad that enjoyment is at the expense of other players. The real ones are the ones that want a true challenge.

 

I'll walk through your points, as I agree with many of the things that you've said. First, PVP in a way is dying, but I know plenty of lower level players who still use it to fuel their FS life (it's not the only thing, but one of many). I will definitely agree that HCS should study the successes and failures of the past (seasons, smasher medal for all hits, PVP ladder and the many iterations that mostly are failtures, etc.). I've tried to suggest items in the past that might increase activity, but not turn to either extreme (non-PVP vs full-PVP). 

 

I agree that most people don't place bounties. Some people understand that PVP is part of the game (many of the players that I talk to that get hit whether I'm stealing gold or completing dailies). Others have hit back, and then there are others who feel that it's not worth their cost to post. Each player has had a different experience while playing, so there are plenty of reasons, but it might be worth it for HCS to look into ways to increase the BB activity. They could bring back the auto-post bounty system once again with some modifications. They could make it easier/cheaper for players to be posted while finding a way to increase the reward given (so it doesn't have to 100% come out of the posting players pocket). I'm not sure I'd be in favor of bringing back the uncapped bounty loss, or the minimum stam usage per hit rule. 

 

Gold-stealing was just brought up as part of PVP. It's one of the reasons that players partake in PVP. I'd personally like to see thievery / master thief rates increase slightly, but that being said, I'm perfectly content leaving it the way it is. 

 

And I agree with what you said about when you find PVP fun, and I would completely agree. PVP isn't about the hitting an offline/unbuffed player. However, that is still part of the game. While no one can be buffed all the time, or compete against someone using composing potions and fully covered, it's still a risk within the game, and I respect that. I don't think that risk should be taken out, unless that's truly how HCS wants the game to move forward. 



#106 rowbeth

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 22:28

**covered by intervening posts**


Edited by rowbeth, 02 December 2016 - 22:32.


#107 wazzimoto

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 03:46

Not 100% sure if this falls in this category....BUT.. ....

I think getting rid of the "PvP Protect Buy Out Option" on PvP Ladder should be removed.....

Opt In ...Smash for hours....THEN....when Ladder Players come back online.....Buy PvP Protection and leave????  LOL   REALLY??   OPT IN or OPT OUT....NO PVP PROTECTION once opted in...

SERIOUSLY....take your licks or don't opt in ? PERIOD!!

 

lol....exploiting smasher ticks??????????????

 

GRRRrrrrrrrr...

 

(this didn't happen to me.. but to a friend on a different ladder level......but i would be (bad words) if it did happen on my ladder 1000%)


Edited by wazzimoto, 03 December 2016 - 03:47.

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#108 mary4ever

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 23:01

Not 100% sure if this falls in this category....BUT.. ....

I think getting rid of the "PvP Protect Buy Out Option" on PvP Ladder should be removed.....

Opt In ...Smash for hours....THEN....when Ladder Players come back online.....Buy PvP Protection and leave????  LOL   REALLY??   OPT IN or OPT OUT....NO PVP PROTECTION once opted in...

SERIOUSLY....take your licks or don't opt in ? PERIOD!!

 

lol....exploiting smasher ticks??????????????

 

GRRRrrrrrrrr...

 

(this didn't happen to me.. but to a friend on a different ladder level......but i would be (bad words) if it did happen on my ladder 1000%)

totaly agree with you

this BUG appeared years ago, been reported back then too by some PvP Ladder participants BUT nothing done so far :(

it is on the list of BUGS I submitted ....

 

unfortunately there is another worse BUG tied to this BUG which will hopefully get fixed ASAP too !!! :(

 

please report this BUG, the more players report it the higher chance it will sooner get fixed


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#109 Bluetail

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 13:27

I agree that ranges need to be expanded. I find it hilarious that on the ladder we are expected to play competitively with a 500 level gap but can only hit players outside that are within 10 levels. If you are placed with players 500 levels above you and its implied that PvP is 'fair', where is the logic that PvP outside of the ladder beyond 10 levels isnt fair? Of course you can argue that those players are opting in with the intent to PvP, but that surely does not correlate to an entire X50 level difference between the two attack types. You cant say one is justified while the other isnt, either bring one up or the other down.

 

We have a lot more at our disposal as players to defend ourselves from PvP attacks than we did 10 years ago. We have all the new pots and composing, Deflect 192, Bastion, Honor, Shame, Erosion, Smite, Fumble, the list goes on. Not to mention PvP protection which removes you from the scene entirely, so if you dont want to participate you have lots of options.

 

Especially now that HCS keeps pushing the levels higher and higher the remaining player base is being spread out between more levels than ever before. When EoC was level 500, you could effectively hit 2% of all levels in the game, which was a sizeable portion of the player base. Today we have over 3100 levels and can only hit 0.3% of levels, this pales in comparison even more when you consider how many empty pockets of ranges there are since there isnt an even spread of players through levels.


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#110 Kedyn

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 14:18

Just a quick bump - Grim/Hoof - any ideas or thoughts on the expanded ranges? I know this is the PVP thread, so I don't want to de-rail, but can we also think through GVG as well? 



#111 yotwehc

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 15:01

Just a quick bump - Grim/Hoof - any ideas or thoughts on the expanded ranges? I know this is the PVP thread, so I don't want to de-rail, but can we also think through GVG as well?


I don't think adjusting the PvP ranges would be beneficial to the game. I am however open to looking at potentially adding more PvP oriented daily quests (within reason!)



#112 BigGrim

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 16:11

Aye I meant more changing the ranges are lower levels - I wouldn't be super opposed to increasing it (a bit) at the high levels of the game.



#113 Kedyn

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 13:41

 

Just a quick bump - Grim/Hoof - any ideas or thoughts on the expanded ranges? I know this is the PVP thread, so I don't want to de-rail, but can we also think through GVG as well?


I don't think adjusting the PvP ranges would be beneficial to the game. I am however open to looking at potentially adding more PvP oriented daily quests (within reason!)

 

 

 

 

Aye I meant more changing the ranges are lower levels - I wouldn't be super opposed to increasing it (a bit) at the high levels of the game.

 

 

Yot, while I'm not looking for the same level ranges that Chazzz may have posted in the original thread, there are some major gaps for people who may want to participate in daily quests or PVP in general. As if currently sits, I have been lucky to have 7 people level within my PVP range in the past week and a half. Two weeks ago, I had 3 daily quests in a row that were PVP related without a single active target within range. Kind of hard to complete a daily quest to hit active players, if there are no active players within range.

 

Again, I'll paste what I had before as a slight increase to the PVP ranges. Would I like to to be increase further, probably, but at least it's a start to expanding the ranges. My guess (and I don't have any stats at this point to prove this theory) is that the game has a reverse bell curve in terms of active player population. There are obviously more players at lower levels and more players at EOC than the 2000 levels in between. 

 

A possible suggestion to adjust the PVP ranges. 

 

1-200 +/- 5

200-750 +/- 10

750-1500 +/- 15

1500-2500 +/- 20

2500 - 3XXX +/- 25



#114 yotwehc

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 15:21

Yot, while I'm not looking for the same level ranges that Chazzz may have posted in the original thread, there are some major gaps for people who may want to participate in daily quests or PVP in general. As if currently sits, I have been lucky to have 7 people level within my PVP range in the past week and a half. Two weeks ago, I had 3 daily quests in a row that were PVP related without a single active target within range. Kind of hard to complete a daily quest to hit active players, if there are no active players within range.

Again, I'll paste what I had before as a slight increase to the PVP ranges. Would I like to to be increase further, probably, but at least it's a start to expanding the ranges. My guess (and I don't have any stats at this point to prove this theory) is that the game has a reverse bell curve in terms of active player population. There are obviously more players at lower levels and more players at EOC than the 2000 levels in between.

A possible suggestion to adjust the PVP ranges.


1-200 +/- 5

200-750 +/- 10

750-1500 +/- 15

1500-2500 +/- 20

2500 - 3XXX +/- 25

Fair assessment. My only concern is that some folks tell players if they don't like getting constantly hit, level out of the range. This change makes it harder. Perhaps the ranges should follow a dynamic reverse bell curve but it still doesn't address my concerns :/

#115 sweetlou

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 19:01

I agree that ranges need to be expanded. I find it hilarious that on the ladder we are expected to play competitively with a 500 level gap but can only hit players outside that are within 10 levels. If you are placed with players 500 levels above you and its implied that PvP is 'fair', where is the logic that PvP outside of the ladder beyond 10 levels isnt fair? Of course you can argue that those players are opting in with the intent to PvP, but that surely does not correlate to an entire X50 level difference between the two attack types. You cant say one is justified while the other isnt, either bring one up or the other down.

The logic above showcases the lack of credible justification beyond emotion and appeasement.


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#116 BigGrim

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 19:05

Actually, it shows that it's okay to have wider levels between those who WANT to PvP. Not so much when people outside the Ladder don't want to PvP. Nice and simple.

 

~ Grim



#117 Calista

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 19:30

Give us targets. I've got 3 active targets in range. People are complaining they are being picked on because I have to keep hitting the same people repeatedly for daily quests. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not trying to upset anyone's game that drastically without a better reason then a medal tick. I get that some don't want the range increased because they are afraid they will hit more. Give us more targets to be able to spread the hitting around better so they don't think we're after them personally.

 



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