184 replies to this topic

[Pardoux]

I was just messaging with someone regarding the 2xp Composing Event and this thought popped into my head (we were discussing giving the game more of a challenge)

 

The thought I had referred to Summon Shield Imp (aka "get out of jail free" card)

 

My thought was :-

 

For creatures below Level 500, SSI functions exactly as it does now - i.e. 1/6 (from the buff) of the imps is killed in place of the player dying in combat.

 

For creatures between Level 501 and L1000, SSI takes 2/6 of the imps each time the player dies

For creatures between Level 1001 and L1500, SSI takes 3/6 of the imps

For creatures between L1501 and L2000, SSI takes 4/6 of the imps

For creatures between L2001 and L2500, SSI takes 5/6 of the imps

 

and, finally,

 

Any creatures above L2501, SSI is wiped out on a single player kill.

 

(Addendum :- I forgot to add that, if there are insufficient imps to withstand the "hit", then of course the player dies, rather than it just wipe out the remaining imps)

It's not much extra, but hey, ANYTHING that makes players take a little more notice and stop being so blase about hunting has to be a good thing, right ?

Edited by Pardoux, 14 January 2016 - 01:27.

[REDBARON2]

Yes I agree in till I start hitting the bigger creatures lol

[Egami]

Making the game more "challenging" with regard to hunting mobs has been on my mind a lot. For the last few months, I've been in agreement with the old school idea of having to actually switch sets in an area. 

 

In the last few weeks, that's gone out the window in my head. 

 

For the most part, a few people complain about the lack of needing to think (which I agree with) and the blasé aspect of what I call "1-8, r". Really, I'd focus on "few", myself included. 

 

What I begin to think is that the majority of FS players are not interested at all in making hunting more difficult. This is a completely simplistic game. 

 

My internal question to all those clamoring for "challenge" is: would it really help the game? I'm doubting it more and more. For me, I don't think the answer in FS has anything to do with that. Challenge, for good or bad (and questionable), is found in other FS game aspects. 

[Pardoux]

What I begin to think is that the majority of FS players are not interested at all in making hunting more difficult. This is a completely simplistic game. 

 

My internal question to all those clamoring for "challenge" is: would it really help the game? I'm doubting it more and more. For me, I don't think the answer in FS has anything to do with that. Challenge, for good or bad (and questionable), is found in other FS game aspects. 

 

Therein lies the rub, unfortunately. Gear and Buffs have dumbed the game down so much now that most players wouldn't, I suspect, have a clue how to put together a setup to combat "monster A" whilst still being good enough to combat "monster B".

SH / CoAt / CoDe etc have killed the need for any gear other than sets for hunting and, even then, for the most part, LE sets.

I mourn the days where Common items were not only useful, but in some cases, ESSENTIAL.

 

But, I seem to be in a minority

 

So, I'll make use of those buffs, just to maintain my "position" in game and carry on lamenting the game that it used to be

[sweetlou]

Imp is a good place to start. Making it work so that you have a chance to die even without imps running out would make killing mobs and saving gold a little tougher. Next move onto reeling in the power of the composing, global and donation pots. While you're at it make the mobs a little tougher than the same 'ol formula that BG has used for I don't know how many years. I'd come up with more ideas but I'm positive ideas these days pretty much fall on deaf ears... prove me wrong!

[yotwehc]

So people complain the game is too easy yet stick around. Please do a poll before doing something like this. I struggle. My KS is always short (GE's help make it longer then it usually is). Almost seems like people are angling to get me out of the game.

[Pythia]

After reading about the need for more of a challenge and reading the options, might I point out the 2% rule and the fact I get tired of it kicking in at all the wrong times.

 

I still die, the game is still a challenge, I still have to think, I'm still having fun.

 

Those of you that need a challenge, please look in the mirror and ask yourself what you really want before you work at turning my gaming world on its head.

[Pardoux]

After reading about the need for more of a challenge and reading the options, might I point out the 2% rule and the fact I get tired of it kicking in at all the wrong times.

 

I still die, the game is still a challenge, I still have to think, I'm still having fun.

 

Those of you that need a challenge, please look in the mirror and ask yourself what you really want before you work at turning my gaming world on its head.

 

With respect, how does making the game NOW (as in on-going, future content) affect your gaming world ?

 

And, the 2% rule can be negated by the use of the correct gear AND imps. I.E. Haviing enough armour to negate the critters damage, having enough defence to negate their attack AND having imp.

To die in the above scenario is 2% of 2% of 2%

[Pythia]

Under the current suggested guidelines, of this thread, as I level my imp protection goes down. 

 

The power of the potions I will have available for use according to the posts is suggestive of change too.

 

I keep my eyes on the gear lists I use as a guide to picking my gear, I will admit that with the advent of composing  most drops are now fragged.  It's been awhile for any single gear pieces not part of a set has been useful.

 

I look at gear all the time at all the levels with a mind to what it'll be like when I get there. I look at stats, and enhancements and most all other aspects for learning.

 

Depending on what higher level players are able to convince management to change will probably impact all players down the line.   That includes me. 

 

This game is still a challenge for me, I'm not unhappy with it.

[yotwehc]

I also think it's a bit unfair that those at or near eoc are making suggestions to change things to make things harder for those that will traverse the path behind. Sure, make changes going forward but to make things harder for everyone else? :/

[Pythia]

Let the admin change things for you from your level forward and I'll read your progress reports here, and know what to look forward to.

 

Should be interesting. lol

[REDBARON2]

I also think it's a bit unfair that those at or near eoc are making suggestions to change things to make things harder for those that will traverse the path behind. Sure, make changes going forward but to make things harder for everyone else? :/

I agree wholeheartedly I want to hit EOC too and I want it to be a challenge but I don't want it to take years.

[Pardoux]

I also think it's a bit unfair that those at or near eoc are making suggestions to change things to make things harder for those that will traverse the path behind. Sure, make changes going forward but to make things harder for everyone else? :/

 

If it was just from this point forward, I'd be JUST as happy - but it won't happen ...

[yotwehc]

If it was just from this point forward, I'd be JUST as happy - but it won't happen ...

But your OP is to apply it to all folks behind you. Make it harder for them after you breezed through. I'm not sure why the game needs to be changed for the few that have mastered the game. I've been laughed at for having far too many buffs and using far too many epic potions but that's what I need to be successful. You could hunt without SSI since you are such a master of the game... but instead of that, you want to make it harder for those who don't have the mastery... really?

 

The focus should be on how to grow the game... not to make it exclusive for only the pro's to succeed.

[Pardoux]

But your OP is to apply it to all folks behind you. Make it harder for them after you breezed through. I'm not sure why the game needs to be changed for the few that have mastered the game. I've been laughed at for having far too many buffs and using far too many epic potions but that's what I need to be successful. You could hunt without SSI since you are such a master of the game... but instead of that, you want to make it harder for those who don't have the mastery... really?

 

The focus should be on how to grow the game... not to make it exclusive for only the pro's to succeed.

 

I expected better from you Chewy

 

You know yourself that players behind US have access to potions and buffs that we never had when we were those levels so making it easier and easier. Did we have SSI ? Did we have SH ? Did we have CoAt, Did we have CoDe etc etc ? - I think making something that I "breezed" thru a little harder is good for the GAME ... Heck, I didn't even say REMOVE SSI, I just suggested altering how it works somewhat.

 

Yes, that was ONE suggestion to making the game more challenging, but can't the thread progress and diversify somewhat ?

 

The game has gotten simpler and simpler with more overpowered buffs and, especially, potions. What's so wrong with making it a little bit challenging again ?

 

Maybe, who knows, making the game more challenging could grow the game ? - after all, does everyone play games these days with the "cheat codes" enabled ?

(that's referring to making the game too simple, not scripting etc which is another topic .. )

[Egami]

I also think it's a bit unfair that those at or near eoc are making suggestions to change things to make things harder for those that will traverse the path behind. Sure, make changes going forward but to make things harder for everyone else? :/

 I think Pardoux's response at 13 is a good one to this. 

 

The problem in my book is two-fold: 

 

1st of all... EOC is not some eternal thing. To simplify my explanation: level 400 was "EOC" once. The "EOCers" now need to remember that in one thousand levels, the decisions made will NOT be for EOCers. Well, if HCS creates another 400-plus levels in 2016 like they did in 2015.

 

2nd: I got some "crap" recently due to a misunderstanding of my comment, but hey. The gist of the the jive was that EOCers are an extremely small population of the game. I'm stating here that I have zero resentment for players at EOC. I also happen to think they are key and I'm really happy when some new content comes out for them. And hey, it's because EOC now is where I might be eventually. It's good. 

 

The "issue" for me is that EOC is (and yes, you can look at the top 250) less than 250 players in a game that according to the HCS statistics (which I don't really believe but seems dubious and I have no idea how it's evaluated) on their page says has over 700k players. 

 

So while writing this, the following popped into this thread (edited for my own ends): 

 

The focus should be on how to grow the game... not to make it exclusive for only the pro's to succeed.

 

I don't agree with the entire post or even what I've quoted. I would have stopped at "the game..."

 

I will apologize openly and admit that my recent thoughts are unformed but I truly hope this recent text wall is on topic.

 

Over and over again, I hear some people stating that the game needs to be more challenging. I myself believed that. I miss the days where I was required to "think" each level. 

 

Personally, I do think a lot about what I'm wearing or will wear and what buffs to use. But what I probably should have realized ages ago and am only now getting a grasp of is that I don't believe that players here want to think. 

 

What I'm beginning to think is that all this talk of over-powered buffs/pots, blah, blah, is an ignorant whiner stance. 

 

This is not at all a shot at Pardoux who I happen to think is a great player who actually cares about the game and is my ally. It's just that I think about the player base in general and I begin to realize that they probably are not at all interested in thinking. 

 

The game itself has moved way past that as far as levelling is involved and that type of evolution seems to me to be something that shouldn't even bother to be turned back. Yes, I'm sorry to say. 

 

In my non-stop game experience, my number one goal has been to "teach" players about the game. This has become increasingly difficult due to the ease of leveling. Trying to convince players what they don't need is the major obstacle. Now I have players several hundred levels above me that insist on getting all buffs and using all potions. It's a bummer.

 

And this conveniently just appeared (also edited according to my whim): 

 

The game has gotten simpler and simpler with more overpowered buffs and, especially, potions. What's so wrong with making it a little bit challenging again ?

 

So basically, I don't disagree with that. But my thought process nowadays (and let me put the emphasis on that last word) is that it's inefficient. 

 

Everything in FS strives to make killing those innocent mobs easy. Leveling is geared towards "non-thinking". In other words, here's your one-hit setup... overbuff and do the "1-8, r". 

 

My doubt is...would making that more difficult really help the overall game? A number of us would enjoy that, myself included, but that is NOT my read of the FS population. And let's face it, there are few of them who would like it. And, only in my opinion, I think we are missing the point: this game is not challenging for anybody that wants to level and making it "challenging" would not make it more attractive. So, really cynical... yeah, let's make that "1-8, r" harder. That would really get me thinking this game rocks! 

 

I've always been about teaching players about stats. With the super sets, buffs, potions, that has become irrelevant for leveling. 

 

The challenge has been transferred to other game aspects... most of them were related to PvP for forever. That's actually how I really learned about them. But now with Titan Hunting, there's a similar impetus. So be it PvP, GvG or Titan Hunting... I think that those are the aspects to concentrate on if we want players to "think". 

 

In short, leveling, for me, is a lost cause. Making it more difficult probably won't do anything to improve the game. Well, that's what I think... since about three weeks ago, lmao. 

Edited by Egami, 14 January 2016 - 05:40.

[mary4ever]

believe it or not BUT I used to enjoy leveling + doing quests

 

before Smashing Hammer (coord att) was introduced (I was around level 800 or so) my hunting setup consisted not only of LE sets but common, rare & unique items too !!!

I used to check out the creatures stats BEFORE my hunt & prepare the setups I needed

 

I had to change setups depending on the creatures stats (defense, armor) + use counter attack (re-adjusting the level depending on the creatures armor stats)

 

I leveled to about 895 without the help of the skill Smashing Hammer, then joined the 800-899 band & started using these skills in order to compete against other players !!!

after 895 I started using SH & coordinated attack for leveling too + stopped using counter attack (only had to watch for the creatures defense stats) + stopped doing quests + stopped using common, rare or unique items (only LE 2 set items for SH + items part of a set for coord att to work)

I only needed 1 single setup to 1 hit kill normal creatures + did not need to change setups during my hunt to 1-hit-kill normal creatures and 95%+ of the champions

 

after the introduction of the "2nd update batch" on composing (distilled KE403, CoA403, SH552, ..) I was able to 1-hit-kill normal creatures, champions, elites, SEs & titans !!!

 

I used to create a group EVERYTIME before I started hunting but it's been a long time since the last time I created a group in order to help kill a champion / elite

 

I am not so sure that changing how SSI works would make leveling more challenging, maybe it will but it would then mean that players would need to buy or cast more times SSI on themselves

I think the "problem" lies elsewhere but maybe SSI can be a start

 

there will be players saying if you want a challenge then just do not hunt with "them", others want to & it's "human nature" ("wisest decision") to take the "short-cut" using all options available

 

the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,R, .... leveling is one of the main reasons why I started doing PvP (was a pure leveler before)

 

unfortunately leveling is not the only thing but in time other game aspects have required less & less thinking ("less" challenge) due to the introduction of certain "elements" to the game BUT I will not go into them because this is a topic about leveling & it's great to see players like Pardoux talking & bringing it up, thanks

[BigGrim]

Or just don't use the buffs? Not everyone has a massive Guild with every structure maxed out. Some players NEED those buffs to actually be able to level.

Just sayin'.

[Mister Doom]

Gimping oneself is not an effective way to add challenge to a game Grim.

You should know this.

 

PS: Structures hardly help at all, you should do a bit more research. lol

 

Also, try not to confuse need with want and level with 1-hit...

Edited by Mister Doom, 14 January 2016 - 17:00.

[yodamus]

i would love to see some variation to the mobs..for sure, making them a little tougher and where you need to change gear often..even at my level i go hundreds of levels without changing..still have on level 200 gear for hunting at level 600...easy mobs make most of the gear in the game worthless ( no longer worthless for frags) ..but i think those get my point..more challenge i like..champions also, need to be tougher to kill....se's, elites, titans all seem to be a good enough challenge as they are.