84 replies to this topic

[sweetlou]

Any loss while attacking on the Bounty Board by the hunter incurs xp loss. Intentional by the devs? If so, not the greatest communication about informing players about a pretty big change.

 

Do we want to keep it? Please debate civilly. Personally I don't mind, but something should be rewarded/given to the Hunter for the new additional risk imo.

 

Here's a poll to tell Hoof how forum goers feel about the subject.

 

Edit: Spelling

Edited by sweetlou, 05 September 2015 - 21:37.

[Pardoux]

Why shouldn't they incur XP loss when they lose a combat ?

[wil72]

I agree that if this change to the BBoard was intentional then there should have been forewarning from the cows. That said, I personally feel that XP loss should occur for a failed Bounty attack, what goes around, comes around an all that. Therefore I'm sat in the zero reward camp for the "supposed" additional risk. Again, that said, I think that there should be XP gain from a successful PvP hit which you alluded to in another thread Luis as I feel this would go a great way towards giving PvP the shot in the arm that it sorely needs.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

Edited by wil72, 05 September 2015 - 15:01.

[Belaric]

Is it a hangover from the seasons - where they deliberately inserted XP loss for the bounty hunter, or has it just been reactivated in the last week or so? That might help answer the question.

[yotekiller]

  I don't mind the XP loss but as the Seasons showed us, there is a certain segment that wants to pvp without risk.  Having XP loss for the bounty hunter means they won't bounty hunt and I'm pretty sure that's why hunter XP loss was removed a long time ago.  If the hunter does lose XP for a loss I think there should definitely be more benefit than 1 prestige point for a win.  A case on XP loss could be made either way, I just think the cows should be up front about any major changes.

[Maehdros]

I like it, should been that way all along imo. I do recall they implemented it previously when hcs tried the 1 hit - 15 hit bounyboard. It was removed shortly after.


An announcement would have been nice of course, but I still have no issue with this.

[sweetlou]

I also have no issue with losing xp on the BB as a hunter...

 

however it does create an imbalance now. Why should a player have to pay for bounty tickets up front to play the Bounty Board AND risk losing xp? If you aren't the first one to 10 wins you get nothing, not a single BHing point! Bounty hunting has always been unsustainable. The costs far outweigh any reward. These are just a few things that need to change.

 

And lastly and I think most importantly, adding xp loss to the BB will not encourage new participants. I thought that is always the goal. The fact that players who are lower in level will have an even greater disadvantage does not bode well for this change. So much so that I voted against this new surprise that was not announced in anyway. I also suspect that this new challenge was yet again another unintended coding consequence. We will see when Hoof chimes in.

[clock96]

As a low level bounty hunter, I am with the XP loss for the hunter BUT I have faced big problems accepting bounties after the XP loss for the hunter have been added, before they added the XP loss I used to accept high level bounties and swing in a suicide setup but after XP loss have been added I tried swinging in a high level bounty and I have lost a Full complete level doing it, and the reward isn't even worth mentioning, I only kept on with the bounty cuz I started it and I can't stop until I finish, so I spent 1 level, 1 hour, 1 bounty ticket 1 or 2 fsps on buffs and around 2000 stam (Cuz I was smashing the bounty) and I got absolutely nothing, as suggested above, I think having XP rewarded for successful hits you make is the least to do to make it worth accepting a bounty and losing levels clearing it, maybe it can go like this:-

-Player X (lvl 300) hits player Y (lvl 1900) on board and wins
-Player Y loses "insert XP loss here" XP
-Player X gets a percent of the XP the other player lost, let's say 15-20% of the XP lost from the other player ?
-If Player A (lvl 2000) hits Player B (lvl 900), Player A gets no XP because the guy he is hitting is already a lower lvl than his.


^^^^^^Benefits from the above:-
1- Bounty Board gets more activity.
2- Low levels would work hard to accept very high level bounties so they can get more XP.
3- More real fighting on the BB.


~So what do you guys think of this ?~

Edited by clock96, 05 September 2015 - 20:49.

[Egami]

All the following opinions are my own:

 

A bounty hunter should lose XP if they lose. The same should and does happen in PVP. 

 

Why? I often farmed higher players on the BB as a punishment. They lost XP when I managed to break through. I simply lost the stam.

 

Bounty hunters: I'll go back to this over and over. Nobody forces a bounty hunter to do what they do. Does anyone really believe that the constant complaint about "countering the bounty hunter" is logical? Does anybody really find logic in the ideology that a complaint from somebody doing something of their own volition and suffering the consequences makes sense?

 

If the price paid on a bounty isn't enough to cover costs and/or risk, why would a bounty hunter take it? 

 

In any case, I feel that bounty hunters should always have lost XP when they take on a job that is meant "to kill" and fail. If they can't do it, they shouldn't try. 

 

Luis may be right that this wasn't "announced". I would argue that it is simply a correction for something that has been wrong for 8 years. I would also point out that there is nothing in FS that says bounty hunters will not suffer from taking bounties. 

 

That said, I "might" agree that a bounty hunter should not have to pay to take a bounty. That never made logical sense to me, but I'm ignorant of whether there was any logic behind it. I "could" argue for it from a logical perspective, but I'm not interested.

 

My most recent experience on the BB was 3 separate players well under my level taking a bounty placed on me for 1 FSP while I was naked and hanging out. 2 of them stopped when I started switching equipment. A third eventually gave up (more honorably at least in my opinion).

 

The crux: I have a specific ideology on what a "bounty hunter" should be. 8 years of deviation from logic does not, in any shape or form, validate an error. 

 

Same as the conserve issue... right? Why would that error save a target's XP? Simply because the error is eight years old? 

 

Hoof mentioned there that he decided to keep the issue because he thought it was "never an issue". I really wish I had had an opportunity to respond to that comment before the post was closed. 

 

A lot of players invoke this "don't fix it if it isn't broken" ideology. The reason my "conserve" reference is on topic is because I believe that the bounty hunter XP loss is actually something that has been broken for eight years and is finally getting fixed. 

 

I would hope that Hoof doesn't commit what I consider to be the same error. Hoof: It was always an issue. The fact that many of us thought there were more important things in game to deal with, does NOT mean that we didn't feel it was a damaging aspect of the game. When you fix the plumbing problem after eight years, don't break the pipes to keep the same problem.

 

In short, something that has been broken for 8 years... and is finally "fixed"... why would you vote for it to be broken again?

[Hoofmaster]

The XP loss was a remnant from the PvP Seasons update, but I think it makes sense and should stay.

We can also look at reducing the bounty ticket costs and potentially rewarding a successful bounty better - maybe addition PvP Prestige? Open to ideas on this

[clock96]

The XP loss was a remnant from the PvP Seasons update, but I think it makes sense and should stay.
We can also look at reducing the bounty ticket costs and potentially rewarding a successful bounty better - maybe addition PvP Prestige? Open to ideas on this

Good to see you are open to ideas, what do you think of this ?

As a low level bounty hunter, I am with the XP loss for the hunter BUT I have faced big problems accepting bounties after the XP loss for the hunter have been added, before they added the XP loss I used to accept high level bounties and swing in a suicide setup but after XP loss have been added I tried swinging in a high level bounty and I have lost a Full complete level doing it, and the reward isn't even worth mentioning, I only kept on with the bounty cuz I started it and I can't stop until I finish, so I spent 1 level, 1 hour, 1 bounty ticket 1 or 2 fsps on buffs and around 2000 stam (Cuz I was smashing the bounty) and I got absolutely nothing, as suggested above, I think having XP rewarded for successful hits you make is the least to do to make it worth accepting a bounty and losing levels clearing it, maybe it can go like this:-
-Player X (lvl 300) hits player Y (lvl 1900) on board and wins
-Player Y loses "insert XP loss here" XP
-Player X gets a percent of the XP the other player lost, let's say 15-20% of the XP lost from the other player ?
-If Player A (lvl 2000) hits Player B (lvl 900), Player A gets no XP because the guy he is hitting is already a lower lvl than his.
^^^^^^Benefits from the above:-
1- Bounty Board gets more activity.
2- Low levels would work hard to accept very high level bounties so they can get more XP.
3- More real fighting on the BB.
~So what do you guys think of this ?~

[yotekiller]

  I don't like the one sided equations for high levels vs low levels.  Just because there is a certain level difference doesn't mean every hit is guaranteed and adding mega buffs into the mix means there aren't many absolutes in pvp.  Not sure rewarding a percentage of lost XP is the way to go either since low levels could easily gain more levels by smashing high levels sitting in epics than by actually leveling.

  Lowering acceptance cost and more prestige ticks is a step in the right direction but not the complete answer.

[sweetlou]

The XP loss was a remnant from the PvP Seasons update, but I think it makes sense and should stay.

We can also look at reducing the bounty ticket costs and potentially rewarding a successful bounty better - maybe addition PvP Prestige? Open to ideas on this

If you want less activity on the BB, it's what you will get. We haven't had pages of players posted since guilds used to go to War and then were forced to stop by being threatened by HCS staff.Gold hits have never been harder to find then now! I don't even bother looking much.

 

  I don't like the one sided equations for high levels vs low levels.  Just because there is a certain level difference doesn't mean every hit is guaranteed and adding mega buffs into the mix means there aren't many absolutes in pvp.  Not sure rewarding a percentage of lost XP is the way to go either since low levels could easily gain more levels by smashing high levels sitting in epics than by actually leveling.

  Lowering acceptance cost and more prestige ticks is a step in the right direction but not the complete answer.

I'm in agreement. A cost should remain for higher levels to take lower level bountys just as there is now. However I'd like to see a per attack cost instead of an up front cost that we have now. In fact I think the cost should increase past 10 bounty tickets per attack if a player a thousand levels and higher wants to take a bounty. I'm not sure why it was capped at 100.

 

Hoof if you want to add additional Prestige, such as 10 Prestige points for 100 stams, I have no problem with that. If you do, you might as well make a Prestige medal since players with 10s of thousands of Prestige will be the norm. I still would like to be able to buy Prestige pots with my earned Prestige points! And the BB will turn into a real punishing ground. Automatic punishment is what players who can't are after, isn't it?

[clock96]

^^^^^^excellent idea by luis here, medal for prestige, that's a really good one which will sure get more activity to PvP

[kitobas]

I liking bounty hunter losing xp too when losing but problem is low players will now not try taking high players bounty because risk is too high for them losing many xp, level

 

this was good years ago because eoc was not this high and setup stats not this big difference

 

if you lucky you getting 1 fsp reward for bounty lol

maybe can doing new medal or something for helping low players doing bounty?

[Calista]

I have zero issue losing xp when clearing a bounty. I'm a pvp player and went into it knowing that my level and xp would be fluid because of it. But the way I started was by bounty hunting. I learned as I went, because that's really the best way. If I had to face xp loss on the bb for losing a hit against someone who is on the bb to be punished,  I never would have been brave enough to start.

 

I'm with the others in that this is not going to inspire people to get involved in the bb. This is another kick to the teeth of PvP. Those of us already fine with playing the bb aren't going to care. But no one new is going to want to figure it out now.

[Egami]

I'm in agreement. A cost should remain for higher levels to take lower level bountys just as there is now. However I'd like to see a per attack cost instead of an up front cost that we have now. In fact I think the cost should increase past 10 bounty tickets per attack if a player a thousand levels and higher wants to take a bounty. I'm not sure why it was capped at 100.

 

I like this thinking. I'm guilty of not having time to go through and put input on all the PvP posts. Before, I would have suggested the same for lower levels attacking highers. Now that the XP loss for bounty hunters that fail in their job has been implemented, I think (perhaps mistakenly) that things have been evened out.

 

 

Automatic punishment is what players who can't are after, isn't it?

Luis... could you define what you consider is "automatic punishment"? 

 

You throw that out a lot. I simply don't get the gist.

 

I liking bounty hunter losing xp too when losing but problem is low players will now not try taking high players bounty because risk is too high for them losing many xp, level

 

This is one of things I haven't had time to make constructive suggestions about. To the portion I quoted... the logical answer is that they shouldn't take the bounty.

 

In my post #9, I make an allusion the fact that they can take me down, but if I fight they can't. 

 

For me, I'm sad about not having enough time to talk about what I liked about the Seasons. In my opinion, neither the Seasons nor the Ladder are "efficient" and it all ties into the BB. 

 

Here, I would only say one of things I liked about the Seasons: a victory did mean some type of payment. 

 

This might respond to the idea behind kitos' post: A low level hit me... maybe a payment is due. They quit when I come up... they can't do the job. But the "damage" they did is what the person placing the bounty was looking for. 

 

I'm not sure if a payment is due.... they saw me weak and the 1 FSP price and went for it. They didn't get what they expected. But... well, I admit: I'm not sure.... this kind of leads to:

 

If I had to face xp loss on the bb for losing a hit against someone who is on the bb to be punished,  I never would have been brave enough to start.

 

I'm with the others in that this is not going to inspire people to get involved in the bb. This is another kick to the teeth of PvP. Those of us already fine with playing the bb aren't going to care. But no one new is going to want to figure it out now.

 

Would a "portion of payment" be a solution? That is a completely sincere question I'm not sure about.

 

I feel ya Calista... but what you're talking about is exactly one of the issues that I've always... and talking seven years or more... is a part of the problem.

 

OSBH was created and then started making "rules" about the BB. I had allies there and never agreed with any of them.

 

Somehow, bounty hunters became these cool people doing somebody a favor. The really weird thing to me was that favor that was being done was always to the target and never to the poster. 

 

So, to avoid talking about all that and to get back to your post: Do you think that if some type of partial payment system (similar to the Seasons, but not exactly the same) was implemented that lower levels might get interested? 

 

I voted against seasons due to the lack of punishment capability. That is for the most part what I have always used the BB for. I follow my personal guidelines and have always had clearers. 

 

 

The XP loss was a remnant from the PvP Seasons update, but I think it makes sense and should stay.

+1 

 

We can also look at reducing the bounty ticket costs and potentially rewarding a successful bounty better - maybe addition PvP Prestige? Open to ideas on this 

 

Hoof, I like the open-mindedness. Prestige, especially, I'd be against. But really, any game given award, I'd be against. 

 

I don't have a "solution", but here's my personal thought process:

 

Someone placing a bounty wants a player to lose XP. They believe it's a punishment. 

 

Someone who has a bounty placed on them tend to have people that will clear it. (have to read further down, but... definitely a part of the problem. I think bounties should stay and not "dare" be taken as an option). 

 

Players often don't place bounties. For the most part, that is because we are wise enough to discourage it or because players know (not "think") that nothing will happen. A one FSP bounty causes more players to go for it. It does not assure efficiency and it does not guarantee "maximum punishment". 

 

Currently, maximum punishment only occurs when we are efficient enough to exact that "punishment". 

 

To increase BB activity, players need to think (within their mindset) that a "punishment" will be served. 

 

In my opinion, a person in RL only hires a bounty hunter to kill someone. A RL bounty hunter would not get paid for putting a shot through a shoulder for example. 

 

But this is FS.

 

Your idea of a bonus for the kill shot is good. 

 

There needs to be some balance. That's my opinion. 

 

I'd open a discussion on that... there are tons of possible options. Among those needs to be included the fact that a bounty does NOT, nor should in my opinion, need to concluded. Apart from those of us that can efficiently take five as punishment, there definitely needs to be a "possibility" (and I believe it has actually happened, rarely) that a bounty is not only not taken, but not completed. Personally, I'd love to see a bounty not completed and the player be notified that their offer sucked, lol. 

 

Start a post and I'll be happy to give input if I have the time. 

[Calista]

There is already a payment for clearing a bounty. That isn't the issue. The issue is that HCS keeps saying they want to encourage people to take part in PvP, but they continue to punish anyone who wants to learn. It's beyond clear that those who already enjoy PvP are just leaving with each new punishment. Most who do not PvP are scared of or dislike the xp loss. The bounty board is used and there to 'punish' or get revenge on an attacker.  How is punishing the bounty hunters instead going to encourage anything? It makes no sense to me.

[Belaric]

The bounty board is used and there to 'punish' or get revenge on an attacker.  How is punishing the bounty hunters instead going to encourage anything? It makes no sense to me.

 

Sounds a bit like an argument for getting rid of counter bounty right there!! That tends to punish bounty hunters too! LOL!!

[Calista]

Removing counter bounties would eliminate players ability to respond to being dropped on the bb. Do you really want to give us bounties we can drop and then not allow you a chance to respond? Yet another way to further limit pvp activity. The most fun I've had in this game was guild wars. I've even met some of my best friends in the game by stomping each other. But sadly, the changes in the game have killed most of that activity.