After reading this I do not feel this idea will work nor do I feel this idea would be good for the community., I feel the O.P. has noble intent - but with that said " The road to hell was paved with good intentions"
Hi Chazz. Let me address your points. This is going to take a while.
Yes the victim gets to post the attacker. exactly as happens now. Except the victim can get redress, which does not always happen now.
All that said I can see that their are a couple of pros to this idea - and lot's of cons I will share my thoughts and explain them.
O.P.'s 4 point plan.
Point 1
1) The victim of an attack sets the punishment required. <----- Let's label this as the first CON vs Pro idea.
The reason why this is bad and listed as a CON:
So anyone attacked in game via this idea would post a bounty up using gold - the amount of gold would reflect how much XP the Poster would want removed from the attacker for such an attack or attempted (deflected attack) I would be happy setting aside deflected attacks as bountyable, as no harm is done. I know BG has always said the intent is there but in this system if punishment is more active perhaps it should only be reserved for those who do actual damage.. This idea is not detailed enough to explain if the punishment is set at a low or medium rate of XP loss for the PvPer that is posted is it possible that the person that is on the board could risk more XP loss exceeding the punishment via multiple hitters?
I believe it is quite clear - there is ONE punishment set by the injured party. Once that ONE punishment is met, the bounty is done. If a person says they want 3 levels taken, no more and no fewer levels can be taken. Different bounty hunters do not all take 2 each leading to 6+ levels lost. Only 3 levels can be lost. The BH that does the most damage wins the prize. So it is NOT possible for the punishment to be exceeded by multiple hitters. In terms of amounts of gold required to create the bounty and given as a reward - I have an idea about it - but getting lost in that argument is secondary to the soundness of the overall idea.
Example I post Joe on the bounty board and I want Joe to lose 1 level - but 50 people take Joe's bounty is Joe capped at losing 1 level not matter what or can the 50 people tear Joe to shreds and take all 3 or 5 levels? If Joe's bounty is capped than you are proposing using the Bounty Board very much like Titan Rewards and secures by whom secures the most out of what the bounty is capped at. If Joe's bounty is set to lose 1 level and can be exceeded than this whole plan from the start is biased and completely unfair to the PvPer.
Joe loses one level. Whoever did the biggest % of that 1 level's worth of damage win the fee. If they do over 50% of the damage - they get a tick towards their BH medal in addition to the fee. It does have some similarities with the Titan securing method in that a set amount of XP is set to be lost (1 level's worth) and BH's hit until that amount is gone, rather like a titan's HP. Once the XP required is taken - the bounty ends. I do not believe the system demonstrates bias in this. A person who posts the bounty gets what they pay for. If only we had 50 BH's competing over a bounty!
O.P.'s 4 point plan.
Point 2
2) The bounty hunter (BH) cannot in any circumstance be bountied. Don’t freak out before reading on – I think this can turn into a good thing. <----- This element contains 1 PRO - and a few CONS
The reason why this is bad and listed as a CON:
So by eliminating counter bounties ( taken them away and preventing anyone from ever using them) ALL Players are free to do as they want - They can and will 100 stam everyone that goes to the bounty board as their would no longer be a " Cause and Affect in A DO WHAT YOU WANT SYSTEM. Yep. 100 stamming will be the most efficient way of completing bounties. Nothing wrong with that if the punishment is set and fixed. It is no more a Do What you want system than now - now players get to 100 stam their enemies, 10 stam pillow hit their pals. Under this new system - you can still do that - off the board, but once on the board you are there to be punished for a transgression. If you cannot own up to the fact that hitting someone else is a punishable offence then why do we have the BB at all? Players would and will run around rampant in this " DO WHAT YOU WANT SYSTEM" Why? Under this system if you hit someone you get punished. Every time potentially. Say what you want - do what you want - anything goes cause their would be no penalties for Bounty Hunters. If you say bad things to other players the solution is a ticket, not PvP. PvP play is not a form of morality policing. If a BH takes your bounty and trash talks you at the same time - report the guy. <---- This is to increase PvP Participation? LOL Really ? Who is or would be crazy enough to PvP with such measures? People who want to bounty hunt and not be driven from the board by counter bounties - that's who, and a few have already said they'd go for it if bountying the BH was no longer allowed. Even with 200% chance of always taken the gold per attack - we can create a new buff that drops the defending players stats to zero so there is no chance an attacker can lose - we can remove deflect from the game - and even then this would not encourage PvP activity - Your Bounty Hunters would have no targets in this world There are precious few now, in case you hadn't noticed - and those that venture the BB would know any trip their is a 100% chance of losing all 3 levels so unless it's a crazy and insane amount of gold even with 200% Master Thief with a guaranteed win for the Attack - most will not get involved in this. You know, I've heard it said many many times that PvP players do not care about their levels, and that they are easily gained back, stam and XP regenerate - and yet here you are being worried about losing 3. Currently you frequently discuss the 'risk' of losing 5 every time on the board. You are making me question how realistic that 'risk' of losing 5 is in this concern over of losing 3 you are demonstrating. I assume you PvP for the love of it - the thrill - losing levels is a side effect of that - I'm offering a system where you will get more play, and you are concerned about losing levels. You'll only be losing levels if you are dancing on the BB - I thought that was what you liked and wanted more of. You can get those levels back - and in doing so earn gold!! What am i missing here? This would be the end of the game as we know it. I like you dude, but this is hyperbole. I could flip this on its head and say currently PvP is dead because there is no point people using the BB as the people policing the board are the people who get posted to the board most often - no-one else bothers as they have, over the years, been pushed out. The inmates run the asylum on the board, and that is no good for anyone but the inmates, and now even they are running out of things to do. If no-one is doing gold hits now - then PvP is dead anyway - what are you defending? I have offered ways to increase gold haul. PvP players lament the lack of activity - your own success in controlling the BB has caused it to wither. If you want to play - if you want to indulge in competition - you have to let other people back in. Or you can stay in your fishbowl and see nobody but your mates and wonder why no-one wants to play in your bowl with you. It is because they get torn apart in 3 seconds flat and you go back to being bored. This system allows new blood to enter, and not be out-competed and demoralised by people who have years of experience under their belts. You say you want more folk to play, but are resistant to an idea that has people saying that they will play who have not participated either before, or in years. As I said early on the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
The reason why this listed as a PRO:
Those who hate the back lash or repercussion of PvP would have nothing to fear in this " Do what you want system" It is not do what you want - it is retribution upon the guilty. Anyone on the board is there for a hit. No shrinking violets get on the board. Once there punishment is fixed. Nobody gets off easy - the injured party sees justice done. The victim of the hit is no longer punished twice - the community gains more faith in the BB as a punishment system - WHICH WAS ITS ORIGINAL purpose. More people post, more people BH, more people play PvP. Win Win Win. - there for - anyone found on the BB can be smashed with little to no reason they are smashed because they hit someone first Chazz and many will participate in this event - but the best part is without having to fear that the player that is posted can do anything about it. Currently the player posted being able to counter bounty has led to a dead board. Is that what you want? Is that the preferred state of play for you? The counter bounty has been used as a weapon to drive BH's off the board. Or so it seems to me now. So a Player level 1980 can smash anyone - make fun of them while doing so - berate the players guild - and nobody can do anything about it. You submit tickets to support - it is what the rest of us do. You seem inordinately concerned about people bad mouthing you - why is that? I have often said that a surprise attack stealing gold and XP is likely to irritate the victim, and in the heat of the moment they may dash off an unfortunate message to the attacker. I think a 30 min cooldown on communications between attacker and victim after the attack would minimise this. Why is the attacker surprised by a PO'd message after they have stolen gold and caused XP loss? Why are you so ready to take offence? is it because in taking offence you give yourselves licence to hit people more? As I said above PvP is not the morality police. Bad language and insults are not acceptable and should be reported. Yup I see this working out well ..... *Sarcasm* =/ Another controversial PRO to this it would completely put an end to any and all guild wars - outside of normal PvP - nothing can be done - so any guild war would or have to be settled by waiting a few yrs to see if anyone goes to the bounty board. Guild wars as they stand are popularity contests - who has the most allies to delevel the other guild on the BB. The BB was not designed as a weapon in Guild wars, it has been appropriated for that purpose. It is not essential that the Bb etain that purpose to my mind, but it still can be in this system. As I said to vastilos - this system actually allows guild wars to be more direct by allowing guild mates to take each others bounties. In a guild war both sides will be hitting each other, both sides can set take and clear their own bounties. The war will end when one side gives up on hits. The other side will have one last round of bounties to finish out and we have a winner. Direct, clean, no reliance on networks of allies.
O.P.'s 4 point plan.
Point 3
3) Guildmates can clear each other’s bounties. <----- This element contains 1 PRO - and 1 CON
The reason why this is bad and listed as a CON:
It is said from the O.P. that bounties posted will have a 7 day time duration prior to their expiration. I have agreed it can be cut to 48 hours potentially. So not only in the " Do what you want system will someone that's posted be forced to stay active and online for 7 days trying to defend their bounties if they attempt to do so but in addition to defending all the incoming attacks from outside players the posted individual will have to defend against his own guild mates most likely resulting in less buff support while they are posted. Only if the guildmates choose to take the bounty - I have no problem with an unwritten code within a guild that you do not take your guildmate's bounty - it has no effect on the wider game - as current unwritten codes of behaviour do on the BB. Chazz - I'm looking for clarity and consistency here, and I think the system I imagined has much more of that than exists now where folk are can fall foul of unwritten rules and BB etiquette. Everyone deserves to know where they stand. I believe doing guildmates bounties is a bonus in a guild war as I said above. You can be cleared by a guildmate, you can clear a bounty your guild mate puts up. Fair for all. <--- So more or less turning brother against brother here in short. Nothing of the sort - bother can help brother by taking a bounty posted by a guild mate. If you want to hit your guildie (a suggestion asked for at times by PvP players if i recall correctly) you can do so and potentially finish the bounty faster and or earn the bounty reward -which may lessen the sting of the initial bounty if you split it with your brother.
The reason why this listed as a PRO:
If the players in the community don't stomp someone and secure the bounty prize first - maybe their is a slim chance a nice mate or friend can save the posted player a level if they are lucky.
O.P.'s 4 point plan.
Point 4
4) Two new Top 250's for PvP are created: An Outlaw Top 250 is created to track those players who have lost the most levels on the bounty board, and a Lawless Top 250 to track those who evaded the posse of Bounty Hunters and survived on the board for a set period of time, initial suggestion being one week. Additionally Outlaw and Lawless medals could be created in addition to the top 250s. <----- I see no CONS or nothing worth mentioning - However their are some PROS I will comment on.
The reason why these are listed as PROS:
The new Outlaw Top 250 will be extremely competitive in the sense that due to anyone taking part in PvP aspect can expect to automatically lose all their levels once going to the bounty board I say again - it has been frequently asserted in PvP's defence over the years that you constantly run the risk of losing 5 - it becomes apparent that you have enjoyed the reality of not losing 5 that often given how concerned you are over losing 3. There is a reason I dropped the max levels to be lost to 3. If you have been playing all these years and claiming more risk than has been apparently getting through to you, then I find it hard to be sympathetic - it means you have effectively cried wolf about these 5's all this time if you are so concerned about 3's. This is what your responses are telling me. - so this ladder can help ease the pain by assuring those players names are on a billboard and that they can also earn a shiny medal for their troubles and willingness to help keep such an aspect alive. NO - you get the medals for playing the way you want when you want and taking your licks for it. You are PvP badasses and you can take it. That is what this top 250 says. That is what you are doing now, supposedly, but are you? For years PvP players have mocked levellers for clinging to their levels. here is your chance to show how different you are, and you are not embracing the chance. I am very disappointed to be honest. You are not supposed to care about levels, you are supposed to regain them easily enough (VL and a champ anyone? a tactic available at any level - not just EOC!) and here you are fretting over actually losing levels. Why? If you lose levels you hunt and gain gold etc. to effect repairs and pay for running costs, just like those who do not PvP.
The new Lawless Ladder will most likely consist of the EOC players who would there be buffed up to evade the XP loss most times - but this will serve as a list of names for players to review and avoid as they would clearly show them selves to be tough to 100 stam and clear. If the duration is shortened to 48 hours the lawless ladder will consist of those PvP players with the skills and the buddies to keep them buffed and intact. Across any level. EOC players have less gear variations to protect them and are vulnerable to EOC hunters. The limit on bounties was introduced after a legend went was it days or weeks without his bounty being captured? This ladder would also show who to go after for more glory! The challenge of it - I thought that was what PvP players craved!? Who better to take down on the BB than someone at the top of the lawless ladder who has escaped many a time before? Or who has a crystal Lawless medal - you will KNOW that player is a tough nut to crack! How will that not be an achievement that causes pride and satisfaction? I think you search for negatives Chazz.
In closing I feel that the O.P. here had the best of intentions here in topic - I'm sorry to say I don't support it and feel this would do more harm than good in the long run. I see view this as PvP Brutality - not a positive incentive for all - I beg to differ I think this system is more inclusive than the current one. I think gold hauls can be increased via thievery and MT, I'm open to the idea of PvP protection being removed if this system is seen to work. I really think everyone in the community can benefit from this. If or by removing the Counter Bounty features from the Bounty Board I do feel many would run around in game rampant - people would disrespect - 100 stam each other - Especially knowing that their are no consequences for such actions. Disrespect - report. Hit - BB. The way it is supposed to be. The politics of the wild west were done away with for a simple reason - they don't work - if society did away with the police - or countries disbanded their armies - the world may seem like a better place for a moment - and that is refereed to the " Quiet before the Storm" be cause when all hell breaks lose it's comforting knowing we have police and armies to defend us. <---- This is not to say that all Pvpers are such neither You are certainly making it sound like PvP players are our police - and self-appointed ones at that. Not a good thing I feel. The BB as I imagine it will actually better police lawlessness within the game that it is currently. I see that you are worried that you can no longer PvP a mouthy player to make them shut up and show some respect. I can see and understand that impulse - but that is not PvP's purpose as far as I can tell in the game. Yes reports are slow, but that is the official mechanic within the game. If we have a wild outbreak of disrespect and swearing left and right then HCS can take steps. I will even say you told me so, but I think holding back an idea because you will not feel as able to hit someone who mouths off is bizarre. - I am speaking about the ability to defend your selves - have friends here in game or mates stick up and help you. We need these Counter Measures - Hoof was right by creating them - they help keep things fun, interesting, and above all else fair within the community. I believe counter measures have been used over the years to reduce opposition on the Bb and it ability to function effectively. I am not surprised you like them if you are sovery concerned over losing the levels you ahve for years insisted meant nothing to you on a BB with actual teeth.
If the BB does not represent risk, and does not accurately reflect the amount of PvP going on in game - what is the point of its existence? If PvP players would rather be lords of an empty castle, why should they care if the castle starts falling down - does an empty and derelict BB actually suit your purpose? You make me wonder about that, Chazz.
Is the current system a Do As You Want system - but only for those in the know?
- Chazz
