229 replies to this topic

[onray24]

when  you buff a player a pop up comes up you have to select the buffs then activate the buffs how about if you have a pop up that asks a player wants to buy x buffs for x confirm  that way it defeats auto refresh or not

[maf22]

Why not just add a feature to your profile that you can check if you are selling and uncheck if you are not selling. Kinda like being a Mentor... Then change the search for a player to include the ability to search by certain buff or search for a buffer of a certain level.  You meet a ton of players buying and selling buffs and I would hate to see that go.  This option doesnt solve the problem of auto refresh players but it might be a way to go

[Shadow19231]

The problem in it's most dumb-down version is false positive results on the "online and buffing" list

[Sinho6]

Make waiting time a preference/option.

 

I think the individual player should be able to set how many minutes/seconds ago the player was last seen. So people who are willing to wait longer/take a chance can set their preferences to last 5 minutes, and people who want buffs now now now can set preferences to something like 15 seconds.

[Crzy]

Thinking outside the box:

 

How about if a buff-selling player can list prices and a maximum amount of stam available for buffing (obviously not exceeding current stam at listing time)?

 

If a buff-seller's self-imposed stam limit is overcome (or their paid time runs out), they are then removed from the listing.

 

Seems to me, that this idea maxes buff availability, avoids autorefresh problems, avoids thieving capabilities and still makes Shout Box and FSBox viable alternatives.

 

Thoughts?

 

I would personally be in favor of this idea but I know other players would hate it because of the automation. It would allow players to find buffs at all hours, buffers would get an income, and PVPers would have targets to hit. That would honestly be a win win for everyone other than the buffer when he gets hit for all of his gold when a PVPer finds him/her lol. As everyone says though, everything in the game must have risk. What's riskier than buffing for thousands of stam for gold while you sleep in hopes that a PVPer won't find you.

 

Perhaps we can make the Shoutbox free to everyone then charge people to list themselves as a buffer on the new system?

[Althalus]

Perhaps a way to cancel a request when you are able to find a buffer, but have preexisting requests to auto refreshers.

[grante28]

Just thinking... Maybe one way to combat the auto refresh issue would be to have a system sort of like Leauge Of Legends (not advertising or condoning the game in any way as I don't play it). What I mean is that if the buffer took lets say more than X amount of minutes then the person who put in the buff request would be able to report them and they would receive a penalty... Whether that be

- a couple hour ban

- a stamina/ gold fine

- inability to accept new buff requests for X amount of time

- and so on.

Just one last thought on the issue =)

[Shadow19231]

Just thinking... Maybe one way to combat the auto refresh issue would be to have a system sort of like Leauge Of Legends (not advertising or condoning the game in any way as I don't play it). What I mean is that if the buffer took lets say more than X amount of minutes then the person who put in the buff request would be able to report them and they would receive a penalty... Whether that be

- a couple hour ban

- a stamina/ gold fine

- inability to accept new buff requests for X amount of time

- and so on.

Just one last thought on the issue =)

 

No.

 

Here's my reason for that. To my knowledge the buyer can send multiple requests for one buff. If i were to search for Smashing hammer, i would have numerous people to ask. If that person afk (or auto refresh) doesn't respond to me, that's fine. I know waiting more than 1min and 30 seconds, i would be asking more. I would get the buff from someone else, and when they see the request it will just be void.. No need to punish people. Generally speaking, people on auto-refresh have enough common courtesy to opt-out of a system like this. No need to punish them for accidently joining.

Edited by Shadow19231, 31 December 2013 - 06:35.

[WhamBam]

This sounds awesome!

[bglo]

give us the option to look through a list of buffers currently online that we can break down my minimum and max level like we can when searching items in the auction house or in the find player option and sort it by most recently active. make it so each player has to tick a box or something along that line for them to show up on said list. also a max of 5 mins inactive and your removed from the list. if you come back shortly after that 5 min mark your put back on the list. any inactivity greater then say 30 mins to an hour and you have to click the box again for your name to be back on the list. maybe a mouse-over pop up screen of the players on the list will then give you individual buff prices and package deals and buy all prices if available. also clicking a tab or ticking a box to put you on the list will then redirect you to a page where you can setup your prices/packages/deals that will be seen by the buyers when they mouse-over your name.

[WandKing]

As a buff seller and buyer I know the ropes

I've used the FS Helper "Find Buffs"  not only for my hunts, but also to get buffs for my guildmates.

(Not even gonna try to ask if that's possible to implement - I request a buff for another player and I pay)

 

Find Buffs is very good and I would like it that players that don't sell buffs have the option to opt out so that the search does not include them.

I would also like see that if players do sell buffs they have an open/closed option that will be displayed next to the online widget.

That way if in a hurry I will only message the players with open buff shop or if prowling around I can see what prices/packages the players with the closed shop have for future references. 

 

I've been thinking about the buff packages and my actual experience of receiving request for multiple buffs is this - a guildmate of theirs logs on seconds after the request was sent to me and buffs them with part or all that was requested from me.

If the buff package I had was discounted then it should be blocked from activating just the missing buffs.

The player would just have to send another request for the single buffs at single buff price.

 

Below is just additional work for the HCS team

 

A request for buffs sent to a seller should have a time limit of 3 to 5 minutes and an alert message sent to buff buyer asking if they wish to continue request or it will expire. The buff seller could receive a message that a request has expired. 

 

I've noticed that Hoofmaster is steering us away from the auto-buffing idea in the few messages posted, yet, I have an erge to put in my 2 cents worth

 

Now, the automatic buff selling would be kinda cool...no telling how many buff requests I just missed while typing this up

 

My opinion on that is it should be a gold sink and another character upgrade should be added to make it

un-exploitable!

 

FS is a superb game!

Thanks HCS

 

 

 

  

 

 

[rowbeth]

All it should be now, given that there's not going to be any offline selling, is ...

 

JUST ...

 

A secure trade for buffs. Checks to see if vendor is online (within 30 seconds?) , checks to see if vendor has the correct buffs required, checks to see that the buyer has the wherewithal to pay - and done. ST done and everyone is happy.

 

Doesn't need to be anymore complicated than that ..

 

Personally, I think the most important thing is a mechanism to find the buffers.

 

If you already know your buffer, then you don't need secure trade.   If you can't find a buffer, I guess you don't need secure trade either.

 

I'd be happy to see a secure trade mechanism implemented, but think that what is most needed is a way for people to find reasonably priced buffers who have what is needed without having to look through 400+ online pages.

 

The FSH routine does this well enough, but it would be better to have that functionality as part of the main game - not least to avoid the functionality being lost in subsequent upgrades.

[rowbeth]

This sounds awesome!

 

After 8 pages of forum discussion, what sounds awesome?

[Tastria]

After following this through 8 pages of discussion, I haven't seen anything to convince me that this is an idea whose time has come

     I WILL take this opportunity to wish everyone a Happy New Year though

[koenvdv]

I would suggest to add a search option like http://fallen-empire...ind-buffers.asp with buff level, price, seller and last online. Above that I would offer a instant buff shop where u can buy buff instantly at a price determined buy the buffs offered or sold in the past on the marketplace.

 

In the list u can obviously find the cheapest buffs and contact the seller, but the instant will offer them instantly at a higher price. Price could be determined weekly and people can decide if they want to offer buffs at those prices. A seller will be selected randomly out of the people optioned in for the buff (online players first, otherwise offline players).

 

The problem is finding a good formula to calculate the "average" selling price:

• Using the amount of people with their prices would increase the average price since people who don't want to sell offer buffs at high prices will increase average price up a lot while nobody is buying them at that price. 
• Using sale prices of the past on marketplace could give false price since people who don't want their stamina will dump it here at low prices and could lower the prices falsly low.

I would use the last way to calculate the "average" price. Dumping prices could destroy the average price to nothing. So watch out when using a formula.

 

 

 

Folow me below on the building of a formula: 

Below I give two formulas to calculate the "average" price for instant buffs. It still doesn't prevent the price from falling to dumping prices over time. 

 

Normaly to find a average from a experiment one would give them a weight depending on how often a value has been obtained. Most often buy squaring the amount of times.

 

But since dumping prices would lower the average redicilously low I would also square the price so that more expensive ones bought have a higher influence on the price.

 

Here are some numbers with a distrubution around the price of 100k.

x: amount sold

p: price

 

x	p	x²	p²	p²*x²	         p*x²
6	5	36	25	900	        180
12	10	144	100	14400	        1440
25	20	625	400	250000	        12500
50	50	2500	2500	6250000	        125000
100	100	10000	10000	100000000	1000000
50	150	2500	22500	56250000	375000
25	200	625	40000	25000000	125000
12	250	144	62500	9000000	        36000
	SUM:	16574	138025	196765300	1675120

If we use only amount squared: SUM(p*x²)/ SUM(x²)  then the price would be 1675120 / 16574  = 101k. 

If we use also the price squared: SQ.ROOT(SUM(p²*x²)/SUM(x²)) then the price would be SQ.ROOT(196765300 / 16574) = 109k

 

____________________________________________________

 

Notice that the price of the second is a bit higher. That's cause we weigh higher priced buffs sold in the past higher. One would thinkg that the first formula is better, but look what happens if someone dumps 200 buffs at dumping price.

x       p       x²      p²      p²*x²           p*x²
200	5	40000	25	1000000	        200000
12	10	144	100	14400	        1440
25	20	625	400	250000	        12500
50	50	2500	2500	6250000	        125000
100	100	10000	10000	100000000	1000000
50	150	2500	22500	56250000	375000
25	200	625	40000	25000000	125000
12	250	144	62500	9000000	        36000
	SUM:	56538	138025	197764400	1874940

SUM(p*x²)/ SUM(x²)    = 33k

SQ.ROOT(SUM(p²*x²)/SUM(x²))  = 59k

Notice that the price of the first one is dropped dramaticly and the second one has dropped less.A formule like the second could hold back the price from dropping hard by dumping prices. But, it still doesn't stop the price falling over time. 

 

For example in week one the dumper would sell lot of buffs cheap. The average instant price for next week would drop. If he keeps doing this over time the average price would be so low that only he sells at instance price and everyone buying instantly would buy at this price so price will be fixed on this price.

 

Normaly the price of instant should be more expensive than the normal going price. This formula is therefor not usable. 

 

____________________________________________________

 

We need some protection from dumping prices. This could be achieved by only accepting prices above for example 75% of last weeks "average" price.

 

(If the price is initialy not set right then it it starts in dumping price and never leave it. Also if this percentage is known then the dumper could deliberately set his price to this number every time and still lower the price over time.)

 

Let's say protection of 60% and last week price was 80. Only prices above 48k (80*60%) will be accounted for.

 

x	p	x²	p²	p²*x²	        p*x²
200	5	0	0	0	        0
12	10	0	0	0	        0
25	20	0	0	0	        0
50	50	2500	2500	6250000	        125000
100	100	10000	10000	100000000	1000000
50	150	2500	22500	56250000	375000
25	200	625	40000	25000000	125000
12	250	144	62500	9000000	        36000
	SUM:	15769	137500	196500000	1661000

SUM(p*x²)/ SUM(x²)    = 105k

SQ.ROOT(SUM(p²*x²)/SUM(x²))  = 112k

 

I think this should protect average from dumping prices and also set the instant price above the normal going rate.

Edited by koenvdv, 31 December 2013 - 18:04.

[koenvdv]

I think that before you start this new thing you should finish what you have already started, the composing page. It is appallingly badly done and needs repair immediately. If any of my students of computer science ever presented me with this bad work they would flunk miserably.

 

Virtually yours,

Zennaro

 

What's wrong with it? It is not one of their best work (guild store, aution house, new map were better done) but it does all that it needs to do well.

 

The only thing I find bad is the Experience earned. That formula is just horribly built.

[Kedyn]

I'm not entirely sure why this needs to be a 2-way street in terms of a buff marketplace. When comparing to the current marketplace - someone posts a price per FSP, and if it's good enough, someone buys at that price. Shouldn't this be set up the same way?

 

For example: 

I want to buy 4 buffs that are selectable on a screen (ie check box like blocking buffs), fill out the amount that I want to pay in gold/FSP, and hit a button that says "Place Order". A seller will check the buff marketplace and see my order for the 4 buffs and the total I plan to pay for it. If they like the deal, they buff me, if not, then they move on and I hope someone else does. I know this can get tricky in terms of large purchases that can range hundreds of levels (hunting buffs including Smashing Hammer, Coordinated Attack, Stalker, Librarian, etc), but there has to be some idea that would work to fulfill these. Maybe allow buffs to be purchased only for gold and the total amount paid is split among the total stam of the order (ie a level 1600 gets on to buff 3 buffs of an order- SH, CA and Stalker), but the remaining buffs needed are still there. Payment and buffs will not be received until the order is completed.

 

I'm just throwing an idea out there, but if this is made into a two way street, I don't see any way to really implement this in an organized manner.  I don't see any reason to really implement "packages" for sellers as there are thousands of different combinations based on sellers, the number of packages each one has, and the buffs that they have distributed points into. Also, I don't see anything wrong with advertising in the FSBox or homepage if you're online to sell your buff packages. I would like to see this marketplace as a way to get certain buffs quickly. 

 

Maybe implementing a way to do the "search for buffs" like FSH has would be a great way to allow a second element to the marketplace. Players can check a box in their preferences that allows them to be searched for buffs/buff packages maybe?

 

There should be no automation within it allowing offline players to continually sell buffs - that just doesn't make sense. Players should have to be online to sell the buffs - however that is done. 

 

Anyway I think I'm just rambling on now, but we'll see where this marketplace goes. 

[Egami]

@post 155... sorry, no need to set prices and don't think anybody is really interested in that.

[Orbit420]

It would be nice to see potions invented by players (composing) NOT be "bound", although it's nice to have the capacity to 'invent' these potions, I have had to collect them from our guild  store and store them, which reduces my ability to stow guild gear and/or acquire other potions I might want/desire for my hunts....if players could offer the potions they compose for sale, mayhaps any profits gain from said sale could be used for character upgrades or other guild amenities....

[Pardoux]

It would be nice to see potions invented by players (composing) NOT be "bound", although it's nice to have the capacity to 'invent' these potions, I have had to collect them from our guild  store and store them, which reduces my ability to stow guild gear and/or acquire other potions I might want/desire for my hunts....if players could offer the potions they compose for sale, mayhaps any profits gain from said sale could be used for character upgrades or other guild amenities....

 

If you're making more than you can store, then make the basic ones, just for XP and bin 'em - s'what most folk do I suspect