Posted 08 October 2016 - 00:46
I'm going to leave this update until early next week rather than try and get it out today. I'd rather it was tested a little more than try and rush it out for the weekend
Thumbs up to working out bugs and such. Thumbs down to yet another deadline fail.
Posted 08 October 2016 - 01:02
I have a pvp daily finally! But the reward is 35 allegiance tokens. Seriously? I'm starting to see why people have been complaining. Good thing I like hitting people.
I fail from your post to see why you'd think people would complain.
Heck, didn't you just prove that you are getting something for nothing?
35 allegiance tokens for free because you "like hitting people".
Personally, I think people are complaining because that's... well, I won't explain that.
I have chosen NOT to do many of the DQs based on my personal game play.
In this example (and apologies Cal for singling you out with this quote, but it was just soooo convenient), I've mostly concentrated on the PvP ones.
Some have been for allegiance tokens which I take from your post, you don't care about. I don't really either. But there's a whole FS world out there.
Other PvP quests have been profitable... 3 to 4 (don't quite remember) successful "normal" PvP attacks in exchange for 100 current stam. 40 stam vs 100 gain... 60 stam up. A clear gain.
I've hit aquatic creatures for one because that's what they happened to be in my area. I've gained on the tile moves because I was anyway.
I've done some of the other quests just for doing them.
In a nutshell, if you think it's worth it, do it. If it happens to coincide with what you're doing anyway, hard to see a reason to complain.
I see DQs as a reason to log in. Worthwhile or not totally depends on the player. Is it in line with what they are already doing? Great, reward for free. If not... maybe max stam is close and one would overflow, in which case 1 gold would be a sufficient prize.
Again, I'm low on completion but have seen quite a few who have done every single one.
A player logging in to make their personal decision, instead of waiting for their stam to max, seems good to me.
Posted 08 October 2016 - 01:18
Hi Egami. Having a good day?
I have said in another topic somewhere that we're never going to break even on a quest. Allegiance tokens are a joke to me. When was the last time that was updated? The prestige I got for hitting was worth more. But easily it could well be worth it to the next person. I didn't have to do anything unless I wanted too.
I've been a supporter of the daily quests since they came out. But the rewards are laughable sometimes. This was only the 6th dq I bothered doing, and I felt like I had too since I complained about wanting the pvp daily.
Posted 08 October 2016 - 01:45
Cal... yep... great that it's Friday.
Def not "trying" to single you out and "yes", I've seen you supporting. Thank goodness not everybody is profit based.
The problem I have is with "the rewards are laughable sometimes".
This is not to say that I don't agree for my character personally, but I don't see a positive "solution" to that.
We have medal chasers out there... some have said in this thread that they have done each one every day. I've seen some that have achieved the medal already.
The general vibe I tend to get from complaints, not yours, are: Geez, the prize for the particular DQ I do isn't worth the effort. And by "prize", those people compare the "prize" to the "effort" and don't calculate anything beyond the "prize".
Really the question is: Why don't we just give anyone who completes a DQ 100 FSP? Gee, that would really up participation.
Again, it's my personal opinion that a DQ shouldn't be something that has a prize that supercedes the game effort. And again, that's just my opinion.
All of us play the game so differently, it's silly to think that we all play the same. Our circumstances are also hugely varied.
I'm more apt to spend 1k stam for a pittance of Reserve Stam, for example. I'm more apt to do the PvP ones that cause me way less effort and stam.
I'm happy to spend 40 stam to get 100 stam on a PvP DQ. It seems logical to me that a "leveler" would skip that because they believe that there are other potential costs involved.
In my personal case, if someone bounties and organizes to take 5 levels on one of my 10 stam hits for the DQ, I actually benefit.
Do I think this is the norm? No.
In a nutshell, for every one of those "laughable" rewards, I'm sure HCS could pull out players that have done them.
The contrarian argument is those of us that have skipped them. That said, I still fail to see the "problem". Just skip it.
The base argument is that those of us that choose which to do, will log in to see what the offer is and we'll skip. But maybe they'll be checking the DQ and actually talk to people instead of logging off for two weeks or 6 months or whatever.
I don't think skipping DQs is a negative. I'd love players to think a bit more. More importantly, I truly believe that what could be considered a "laughable" DQ today could be worthwhile at some point.
Posted 08 October 2016 - 02:16
Posted 08 October 2016 - 03:21
The rewards ARE laughable. (most quests really) So I don't bother doing the daily those days. The next guy might decide he needs the medal and he will do the daily. Another might need the reward so they do the daily. And the next day all will get to decide again. It's cool. We actually agree for the most part.
But come on, Egami. 35 allegiance tokens for the risk that comes with hitting multiple players? It's funny! Especially after I griped just yesterday about grim's secret agenda to keep the pvp daily away from me.
Off the record (is that possible?), I did chuckle on that last part.
For the record, I was really surprised that everybody hasn't seen everything by now. The comments did make me rethink a lot, because I'd mostly been focusing on the "thing you need to do". But after the comments here, I began to also wonder about the prizes. Are the tokens, stam, reserve stam rotating with equal "randomness".
I have zero idea. Hoof has pushed back the new DQ releases. I'd really like to create a guide with DQ details included. No promises on my side.
I don't really care about the prizes (obviously) and I, at where I'm at, can get the Allegiance token "worthlessness". On that, I have two things: 1) lower levels might not feel the same. 2) Even I, could maybe use some.
But, what's really going to flip your boat is the following question:
But come on, Egami. 35 allegiance tokens for the risk that comes with hitting multiple players?
What "risk"?
That is to a large degree an extremely complicated, rhetorical and, most importantly, player-dependent question.
It is totally crass in a way, but completely sincere.
The underlying meaning of that question has tons to do with what I have been "pushing" since around my first year in the game.
Nothing is "controlled" in this game. I'm not sure if the 35 allegiance tokens is for 3 or 4 players, but let's go with 4.
The "assumed risk" is a loss of 20 levels based on hitting the four players and losing 5 on each.
This is not a max, something nobody has really contemplated in this game.
However, let's roll with the "assumption" that I'll lose 20 levels for hitting 4 players.
So, it needs to be stated that there is practically zero risk in this situation for me. I can lose 20 without blinking. I simply gain 35 allegiance tokens. In fact, if I lose the 20 levels, in my personal FS world, I actually reap considerable rewards.
I do NOT at all pretend to say that what I do is what the majority of FS players do.
What I'd hope to transmit with this example is that players need to think outside the box.
As I've understood Admin comments, a lot of these DQs are freebies. They are designed to "possibly" coincide with what you are already doing anyway. That said, I have move tiles when I wouldn't have, all good for the game in my opinion AND I would hope that the upfront balance cost of doing is more than the recompense.
But the crux of the question is: if it's not worthwhile for you, then you don't do it. If it's not worthwhile for you, are you sure that it's not worthwhile for others?
I'm quite sure that a good number (be it 10, lmao) have done all the quests so far because they are medal-chasing.
In short, if, in your example, losing 20 levels benefits me and I gain 35 allegiance tokens for nothing... then how can that be wrong?
My point is that we tend, as I guess is natural, to think in terms of personal benefit. Doing that, we look at the effort and the reward, but this tends to obviate the facts.
X stam for Y stam. This is an ignorant evaluation. I can't see any justification for "complaining". How can you possibly complain about your personal decision that something isn't worthwhile for you? Wouldn't the logical response simply be to NOT do it?
Luckily (?) Hoof has agreed on some points. We'll see what changes he'll make (now next week).
The crux in my example is that I'm perfectly willing to lose 20 levels for 35 allegiance tokens. The reality is that I won't lose 20, but I roll my game the way I roll it.
What I do and how I roll can considerably reduce that "risk", which, oddly enough, in my case is counterproductive.
Essentially, I think that most FS things require a huge amount of effort to step back and try to see things from a perspective outside our own personal game-playing.
If one thinks that the DQ is "laughable", then they will choose not to do it and reevaluate with the change a short 24 hours (if that) later.
I'm against creating a "profit" from all DQs, because I would hope that we could force FS to think. And, if not, at least evaluate for themselves.
As a perfect example: my "just in" DQ is to kill 100 Elites for 200k gold. I have chosen to not do it.
My base question is: do you really want to up the prize to make it "worth my while"?
Posted 08 October 2016 - 04:12
What risk? Ask Grim what happens just about every time he hits the bb. (So bummed I missed the other day, btw)
As someone active in pvp, I run a risk every time I hit the board. I make sure I have good reason behind every hit that I do, (Good reason for me, not by anyone elses standards) strictly because I want the risk to be worth it. There are a handful of players who get to feeling froggy a few times a year and jump our bounties to prove how 'brave' they are. I know they're gonna lose 5 for it, but I want to have solid reasoning for why my behind is out there wagging. That way I have solid back up for a response. 35 allegiance tokens for 15 levels is a joke. If I get dropped on these bounties, a daily quest isn't going to be good enough reason to call in my backup. I'm not asking hcs to change anything about the rewards. I'll hit on the pvp daily just because I'm thrilled to see something introduced into the game that gets people to try pvp. But seeing this today makes it easier for me to see why people are upset. Maybe because it finally applied to the area of the game I focus on.
I agree with you, for like the 3rd time, on what doesn't work for me might work for someone else.
I can't pretend to understand why you can say losing 20 levels is nothing. I expect my levels to change and it doesn't 'hurt' me to lose them, but I don't want to lose them. Oh well, you say tomato, I'll say tomato. No...wait.....I'll say tomato and you say tomato. 
Posted 08 October 2016 - 12:10
We need more PvP related quests!
Edit: The same way Arena tokens are rewarded for non-Arena dumb quests, Ladder tokens should be rewarded as well. Why not add a small xp reward component for us level junkies?
There's so much that could be done to these quests. However the game development trend of the past few years is to do the bare minimum. I would like to be surprised with this next update but sadly I don't expect much beyond a few more quests to go with the current 4 types we currently have - kill x mobs y times, join Arenas, walk x tiles and attack x players.
I hope I'm wrong!
Edited by sweetlou, 08 October 2016 - 16:11.
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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM
Posted 08 October 2016 - 13:05
Posted 08 October 2016 - 17:14
@cucu... I'm quite sincere.
I think Calista's "I'll say tomato" is probably the best summary.
In a nutshell, I disagree with "laughable" because many do them.
They find benefit (be it the medal or stam that was going to go to waste or simply coinciding what they were going to do anyway, etc), where some do not.
It's really just a difference of definition. I, perhaps wrongly so, see "laughable" as the idea that DQs should be priced for profit. As a stam use, stam gained, or something of that sort.
If it is "laughable" to you, then simply don't do it. That IS an intelligent analysis for your game style as is lacking throughout the game.
Like Calista said, she doesn't think losing 20 levels is a good trade for 4 PvP hits to do a quest.
Not everybody is the same. So far, I "think" I've done about 5 or 6 of those PvP dailies. So far, I've been posted twice and lost less than 2 levels. In "my" case, I don't care about losing levels and thus there is no risk. There is only a gain.
But that's me and Calista plays differently and values different things.
"Laughable" is a personal definition. So, to delve in... yeah, I'm not doing "most" of the "kill x creatures" and haven't bothered with a single Titan one.
But that's me, I don't think they're "laughable", they're simply not worthwhile to my gameplay.... at this point.
I am relatively certain that many do those that I skip. I don't "think" better rewards are worthwhile. People are already happy to receive them.
Posted 08 October 2016 - 18:17
The same way Arena tokens are rewarded for non-Arena dumb quests, Ladder tokens should be rewarded as well. Why not add a small xp reward component for us level junkies?
You cannot get Arena tokens from the DQ's. Perhaps your confused with Allegiance tokens of which you can get from them. But regardless I disagree completely. If you want Arena tokens then play the arena and the same applies to Ladder tokens.
If you make rewards that are exclusive to different areas of the game no longer exclusive then it removes incentive to play that area of the game. Simply put if someone wants something that is bought with arena tokens they should play the arena to earn their reward. Making it available by other means makes that person less likely to play the arena. Not sure about you but I would prefer to encourage activity than the opposite.
Posted 09 October 2016 - 03:50
You're right. I confused Allegiance with Arena. By why not give players a taste of what they might be missing? This game has always pitted division between players, the largest being PvPing players against those who don't. The game has always needed to be more inclusive. Now we need Hoof to want to invest in that type of change. Let's see!
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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM
Posted 12 October 2016 - 10:43
But why not give players a taste of what they might be missing? The game has always needed to be more inclusive.
This game is pretty bloomin' inclusive. There's nothing wrong with having exclusive items in the Ladder and Arena. You want those items, play those aspects of the game.
However, Since we have Daily Quests which encourage players to join Arenas, those COULD give a few Arena Tokens as a targeted reward. I'll discuss with Hoofmaster.
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