Brinmoth

Short and simple feedback: aka the "TLDR"

The part that excites me the most is the pitch to revamp the GvG ladder into a 'War League' style competition with prizes!

GvG has been in desperate need of a revamp for a long time and I hope this gets attention and 'official' feedback from a member of staff sooner rather than later.

Overall I believe the suggestions made in the OP provide a good baseline to work from in order to remedy the issues facing the format currently.

WARNING! LENGTHY POST AHEAD!

Detailed feedback:

Details on the issues I see with GvG and the ways to mitigate them can be found below.

Issue #1

Competitive play is not adequately rewarded

The amount of RP awarded is the same regardless of how 'difficult' each conflict is.

The GvG scoring system essentially doesn't care if you if you shoot 50 dead fish in a barrel or hit 50 moving targets and that is a serious problem!

We can't address RP without a discussion on the Expected Value (EV) of RP itself.

Currently, the use cases are relatively niche.

Some of the RP packs see play today but their utility is fairly conditional.

RP Epics are essentially 'trophy' items which are costly to produce and have low EV per Opportunity Cost (note this can change with the upcoming epic rebalances)

Issue #2

One sided games are too common

Related to issue #1 Lopsided conflicts are actively encouraged by the system mechanics as the win percentage or rating of the opposition is irrelevant in calculating the rewards, meaning the 'optimal' play to get the highest EV per opportunity cost is the line up as many 'soft targets' as humanly possible and mercilessly beat them repeatedly.

One sided games are not just confined to 'RP Farming' however, using the Initiator's Advantage it's actually very easy for the Initiator to put the opposing team in an unwinnable scenario. If you're not misplaying you are guaranteed to complete your hits netting you a draw at worst. 

Now that I've covered the most prominent problems I see with GvG as of right now, let's cover how these suggestions remedy them and some ways they can be expanded!

• Updated RP Packs

Adding value to the RP buff packs without making them overpowered, looking good!

• Notification System + Prep Time for Incoming Conflicts

Something like this would help mitigate the Initiator's Advantage, potentially enabling a defensive scramble which would prevent some those one sided games. All for it!

I'd even just take an automated mass message when conflicts start, honestly.

• Offline Time for AFK Targets Reduced 7 Days -> 2 Days

Seems reasonable, again it would create fewer openings for one sided games, all for it!

• Level Ranges Expanded; +25 Levels Every 1,000 Levels Gained

I don't really know how much of an impact this would have but hey, it could end up giving more guilds more options and more options means more play lines, in theory.

• GvG “Seasons;” 3 Month Intervals with Achievement

I think this is what GvG has needed since RP was made into a dynamic commodity.

Offering practical incentives for people to play competitively is really important for sustaining success. Just look at well, any game people play competitively for reference. 

Rank 1 on the ladder being purely a 'bragging rights reward' is a huge reason the field is pretty much dead. Offering 'Prize support' such as guild upgrades (or equivalent bonuses), bonus RP or exclusive items is what this aspect of the game needs in order to have both a practical reason to play for rank 1 and have rank 1 be a status symbol.

Shout out to you if you read this whole thing!

Hopefully you got some valuable insight from it and hopefully it took you less time to read it than it took me to write!

I spent way too much time writing this....LOL

Personally I've subscribed to the school of thought that the fewer restrictions there are, the better.

I truly believe that the '25% rule' should only apply to those using guild gear.

That is literally the only impact that your choice of guild could have in the matter after all.

The arena is a 1v1 tournament format, not a team fight format.

The investment in backpack slots and gear to reach the competitive level is quite a hefty one!

Those who have made that investment should be rewarded, not punished.

It completely defeats the purpose of obtaining private equity if you cannot fully utilise it as you see fit.

After reading some of these responses though, it would appear the general consensus is that some restrictions are necessary to prevent a monopoly.

Recognising this, I think a bump to 50% (either a blanket or conditional increase) would be a fair compromise between the two schools of thought. 

As Toreth pointed out, the chances of any guild being able to monopolise the arena is statistically impossible within these parameters.

More people from active guilds would be able to play, spurring more activity and competition.

A win/win as far as I'm concerned.

I know , im just afraid they will leave it at 15 min like they did before on 10 mins then after lots of asking they made it 5 mins it is not like before in the past but 5 mins acceptable . 

I hope they look for it 

I'm afraid too... I'm afraid I may just have to walk because my passion keeps getting the shaft. 

With 2 minute intervals you can have tournaments done in 5 minutes, you could get results and make adjustments within a reasonable timeframe.

However currently it takes 45 minutes minimum!

Which is far too slow for a simple turn based game like this...

This really needs to be addressed now that things are online again.

Arena is slow again!  the more high level tourneys spawns the slower it becomes...

 

Seriously it should be 2 tourneys for every 100 level i have said and many agreed on it , it is fair for all players not only high level players .

 

We need this modification on how tourneys spawn ,just increase number of tourneys won't help as the tourneys will spawn at higher levels.

I agree, this really needs to be addressed!

How can Arena be a balanced playing field for all players when low levels are not represented at all!?

Additionally, I believe for the 2 per 100 level range ratio to fulfil its function it needs to have 1 tournament at 1 - 50 and another at 51 - 100 for each 'division' of 100 levels.

At least someone make a freaking guide to help us newbies.

There's lots of useful information on this very forum.

Bug. It's being fixed at the moment. We'll be posting news with everything else we've changed later today

I hope that list includes a wider array of levels for arenas as there currently a grand total of 6 levels that matter which are hundreds of levels apart, this really stifles any creativity in arena and will only lead to widespread complacency.

Also small "thanks for coming" prize for the runner up as the tokens were originally intended to serve that purpose to attract and retain players...

Keeping the the "winner takes all" system does nothing to address the real problems that are present with the arena.

Bumping so this topic isn't forgotten, some good information here.. Be a shame if it were to disappear.

This should be pinned IMO

It just makes me sad there has been no official word on any of the fine ideas raised here being considered for the supposed improvements that Arena is said to have according to the development roadmap.

Makes me feel like my favorite part of the game is getting the short end of the pixie stick again!!

For once I just hope my feelings are wrong.

-snip- 

 

people advertising at all should be 24 hour mutes, and that almost never happens, which is another reason global chat is dead. Minimal enforcement of advertising is what killed the chat moreso than even the creeping amount of active chatters who were banned or left due to others being banned.

 

-snip-

As a regular in the chat I can attest to this. 

I must say nothing annoys me more than people using it as free add space and I know I'm not alone with those sentiments.

Only real reason I didn't mention earlier that was because I didn't know there was a rule against it..

I hope you find your huge ass.

 

 

 

 

 

So Crip is a chubby chaser   ... I knew it!

The OP has done a good job covering most of the basics I think I'll expand on the play styles in the arena

We'll start with an overview Armour play styles.

Armour Attack

This style while rarely used can be a very powerful option in ranges where many people use defense.
The crux of this style is boosting your attack to hit defense foes while you take negligible damage from them, be aware that other armour players will be very tough match ups (though not impossible to beat) due your low damage.

Suggested moves:

SA: This is your main move against defence users. Depending on the range you can win against defense users with only 1 or 2 spins.

Deflect: You're going to want to use these the reason you want to do this is for the fact that this nullifies armour reduction from PS it can also save you from taking a big hit from PA or CH, which is good because most armour users will try to nail you with one of those moves after they use PS.

Dodge You should consider using this move for the same reasons you'll want deflect.

(optional) Block Once you get a feel for how your opposition plays you might want to use this to predict people using PA.

PS Have 1 or 2 of these handy for armour foes.

Crush can be used follow up PS. You can use CH if you wish for better damage matchups I just find CR better because it no-sells the defensive options your opponent has. No point in using PA with this type of set.... The damage boost wont really help you.

Armour Damage

This style is highly used... For good reason, it has an answer for most other play styles.
Which stat you make your primary matters quite a bit more with armour damage as they follow two different styles.

If your primary stat is damage you're looking to hit your oppontent with a big attack, or use PA boosted damage for a big attack.

If your primrary stat is armour then you're looking to use PS to lead into a big attack.

Regardless of your primrary CA will be the key to winning matchups against defense players.

Suggested moves:

CA these are needed if you are using armour damage! No exceptions! It's your only answer to defense players. Defense players leave them selves vulnerable to CA when they use SA (to get the edge over other defense users) or when they use PS to handle armour users.

Deflect  same reasons as Arm/Atk players, you might consider using 2 or maybe even 1 though depends on which optional moves you want to use.

Dodge (optional) You should consider using 1 or 2 of these for the same reasons you'll want deflect.

Block (optional) Same reasons as Arm/Atk players.

PS Have these handy for armour foes. Have a strong follow up like PA or CH for at least 1 but don't feel obligated to do so for all of them if you are running more than 1 PS.

Now that you have a good idea how armour sets play. It's time to cover defense play styles.

Defense Attack

Another widely used set type because like armour damage it has and answer for pretty much everything. Esentially you'll be using SA/Weaken to take down other defense players and a freeze/PS/Crush combo to deal with armour players.

If defense is your primrary stat then you're relying on weaken to take down other defense players.

If attack is your primrary stat you'll want to put that attack stat to use by using SA to beat other defense players.

Suggested moves:

Freeze: 25% chance to give you a free turn (for 2 free turns if your opponents are using BL) The real draw of this is that fact if can disable almost any move if it lands. Use this before PS It can save you from dangers like CA or make PS effective on the defensive move options of Armour players.

PS: Have 1 of these to handle armour users. You genereally don't need more than one if you're using Freeze before it.

Crush: Use 1 of these the follow up PS. Others are to be used to follow up weaken.
 

Weaken: these in your move slots even if you make attack the focus having these can be useful in case you miscalculate on atk/def values in the range. also good moves to fill up slots with as armour damage have no way to punish you outside CA.

SA This is your main move if attack is your primrary stat. A good atk primrary can take out most def sets in 1 or 2 spins.


Defense Damage

Crush :  To hit your opponents tand  use that damage stat.

PA: To boost that damage stat, this risks being countered bu armour users

Weaken: Same reason as  attack defense players, might not be as effective due to your lower attack stat.

I've been keeping away from this thread from a while but after seeing the issues raised  I'll say my piece here.

Firstly seeing all the negativity here makes my heart dip as a regular of GC. At first I was cynical, I was thinking it was implemented as a distraction for those people "with not enough to do in game" But I tried it just for fun... and those views quickly changed. I saw it as a new frontier to explore which gave me a chance to interact with many people that otherwise  would have gone sight unseen. I seen many folks gain new friends, strengthen existing friendships and even ignite some old rivalries! (and I personally have experienced all 3 first hand...haha!)  All things considered I think it's overall a positive thing for the game sure there's a good and a bad side to everything but you wouldn't toss out a whole bushel of apples because it had a couple of bad ones would you?

As for the subject of moderators I'm in favor of expanding the roster as I rarely see them, thus I will readily admit some gaps can be filled. As for their performance? From what I have seen  its fair in all honesty. Moderators as a rule are usually pretty good about giving fair warnings for infractions, given the tough thankless job they do. Sometimes we humans make mistakes, it's part of life and Moderators are only human after all.

I'm against a community vote for deciding this stuff though.... dav has explained why in much better words than I could...haha!

Guild leaders, while respected probably wouldn't be the best fit... Running a guild is like a full time job (and some people juggle that responsibility with an actual full time job). I just don't think they'd have the time or want the additional responsibility.

Ultimately the only people with that kind of power and the courage to use it fairly are the folks at HCS! (said dramatically)

Maybe this will get the COWS attention ...OVER HERE BOYS! 

SHAKE IT Shhh ShsSh - SHAKE UP THE ARENA! =)

 

Now, if she does it like this...Will you do it like that?
Now, if she touches like this...Will you touch her right back?
Now, if she moves like this...Will you move it like that?

Come on!!!

Shake, shake, shake, shake, shake it!!!
 

Make it happen!

Command > Drop topic  > Initiate > Now

I know... Wrong syntax but it's worth a shot