35 replies to this topic

[HuMoR]

So its old news how garbage the mage class is...the problem is individuals are defining the entire classes effectiveness by 1 individual.
current scale in the game for AOE and single dps below
Single dps by highest to lowest-Assassin,rangers,warriors,templar,mage,prophet
AOe dps highest to lowest=warriors(soon be rangers at 50),rangers,assassins,prophets,mages,templars
why are support classes higher in dps then a dps class supposed to be based on high slow dmg's?
Why does a mage class that is supposed to be ranged distance require half of its moves to be within melee distance? why does it have lower overall dps then all of its fellow dps classes in every single aspect?
why are mobs and dungeons built reducing the dmg of the already lowest dps class in the game?


people are saying...but they can heal? but they have ovl and blizzard to slow/stun/snare
1) half the mobs in this game cast slows on you from a ranged distance anyways...so your slow = useless you will continue to be hit trying to kite.
2) mages snares/slows require melee distance= you can die in the time of casting them...(even limiting to the amount of mobs hit by these!)
3) 1 single heal...in every 30 seconds..isn't a "good source" of healing...hell in pvp its barely even worth using at this point.
4)mages are lowest dps in aoe and single target..and only have what move to make them even seem a competition? PLASMA SHIELD! without this move...mages are useless in pvp too..
5) even if you reduced the cd on db by 50% AND increased Blizzard by 30% its effectiveness would still be below the list above...due to the fact they have to stop attacking to try and flee to live...why? because not only do they have the lowest dmg ever..they also have the lowest armor and defense in the game.
6) its aoe damage moves..have much lower range based attacking then other classes as well....
Why does a class that is a mage ranged class with the lowest armor require its most effective moves to be in melee distance?
7) again...fulmination...im not sure what is going on with this,a move for lvl 50,requires 1k gold and required 3 pnts from tree...and with all that its less them 1/3 as useful as a lvl 24 ish move that requires only 1 pnt from your talent tree...and requires you to be in the dead center of a mob to cast it for effectiveness.


point being made...not only is its dps bad,its armor bad and such..its entire tree is bad...more then 70% of it isn't effective for its class.

Vote for Overhaul on this least balanced class.

Effective moves for classes
Rangers-creeping vines,monsoon,detonate,black fang,blood fang,blazing arrow,envenom,hemorrhage,storm,spectral barrage,celestial recall
Warriors-ruin,bloodbath,bane,rupture,sear,sever,hailstorm,maelstrom,meteorite,frenzy
mages-incinerate,ignite,erupt,dragons breath,plasma shield...boiling blood cant be mentioned..cauterize..is meh


looking forward to feedback or opposing ideas...as anything being said otherwise can easily be countered.

i suggest any mages in the game to just spec hyb into proph or tank or fully respec to a prophet..as prophets can out dps you,have 3x your reductions and heal for 3x-4x.

Edited by HuMoR, 08 July 2014 - 23:01.

[ernzor]

IMO mages >sins for aoe. Sins have one skill for that (in group setting... cant use spires in groups as setups are staitionary) and to use effectively you need to spec 4 pts into it which is quite a bit...

[redsmokeboy]

Rod - 1-h Socery weapon - efective cover most basic issue for mage's - Alow use of shield cover Def issue, As wellcover dmg need for the class spec.

 

Few skill could use few tweek's low cd - on few skill's even with high haste obtaibale some skill effectivly do need some tweek's.

 

Over all Rod - 1-H soccery cover most of basic issue.

 

War - Assin - Ranger both get effect usefull 2 nd weapon.

 

Unlike Mage - Profet use staff - add's mele Dmg - Only gain effect from + Socery not so usefull. most skill effect from ess.

 

Covered most issue Def - adding rod to game solve most the basic underlining issue.

 

Rod - lvl 45

spell dmg 145 - 187

+30 vit

+30 socery

+30 enegry

 

Ranger !-H

Ranger DPS

Stat's as so

 

att like range weapon add small amout of dps

effectivly adding to class option and build options as well.

Edited by redsmokeboy, 08 July 2014 - 23:47.

[HuMoR]

IMO mages >sins for aoe. Sins have one skill for that (in group setting... cant use spires in groups as setups are staitionary) and to use effectively you need to spec 4 pts into it which is quite a bit...

spires>blind>soul fire>spires>blind its insane dps.
also lethals stack now..
50%init+20% every .5 seconds= 40% per sec for 6 seconds+30% more dps speced +15 slow+20% more dps from blind effect spec.  (can continually grab more mobs to keep them being hit during this entire time..)
and we are talking about for most part aoe itself,which places sins above mages in aoe farming with lethal+spires+blind.

Edited by HuMoR, 09 July 2014 - 00:02.

[redsmokeboy]

Mean surviablite - heavy sin - yes meduim sin has it's issue - as well timing major factor for sin skill usage!

Limited Aoe's Spire's Moving for it to work upgrade add some dmg with out moving but over all wasted skill point's!

Poison con - Limited mean as well.

blind - upgrade for dmg bost - Effectivly Assin still single target dps vs aoe effective!

Blind dmg reduction all can use that, Even mage

 

Mage - aoe skill

Slow + dmg up to 5 target's

Aoe - channel skill + stun effect - stunimute - snear imute - issue with effective use of these aoe's

frost bite speed bost - effect pvp mean's

Many skill are spec for pvp then PvE

 

PvE aspec for mage, very bye skill useagle still effective for bothing down side of issue is Profet healer out DPS mage there is issue there need's be looked at.

 

Main issue, with mage are aoe skill channe;l based unable to move effective deal aoe dmg!

Lowest base def long channel skill's!

 

Many of op skill Close mele range skill's - Frost bite snear - bump - Bump - slince skill

 

Over all Aoe dmg is powerfull issue - Long Chanel time take's cast most of them before get wooped on bye trash mobs

 

Issue, Update Stun, snear , slince imute - created some issue of channel skill have underdersiable effect on mage skill usage.

 

Cover issue!

blizerard

Increase stun effect of blizerard - Chilling 1's stun - increase to 3 sec

20/40 spell make;s 90% spell DPS

Effect of upgrade need's more added stun time - cover channel time before geting killed

Upgrade stun effect 3 sec not much  add to surviablite - chance effect!

 

Increase snear effect of frostbite - as is effective upgrade - 6 sec on par with range's snear issue mele Range vs range skill more ffective for mage!

 

Overpowered:

Increae number of target's for static discharge

As right upgrade 5 target's max - change 8

 

Void walker

  Lower Cool down - Effective change DPS 1.5% to every 1 sec

 

Add new gear option Rod 1-H soccery

Shield's chance soccery

 

Flamelash

skill effective upgrade's added to incerated Splash dmg skill upgrade bitmore effective range - small dmg bost.

Added upgrade most used skill plase dmg 1/2 - upgrade 2/4

giving mage use aoe effeceted add to most use skill's

 

Looking at mage tree look at see what might bemore effective skill usage!

 

Right now adding Rod to game cover some basic issue!

Edited by redsmokeboy, 09 July 2014 - 00:42.

[awollsd]

i have to agree with Guthix here.... 

 

however i wouldn't just start completly changing things. it may end up creating more problems after all..

 

what i would suggest is 

 

1st add 1 hand spell dmg wands

2nd deepen the talent tree's 

 

then review the classes as pure and hybrid and make adjustments then. imo HCS could make these 2 changes then set a month or 2 aside to monitor each class and hybrids and then make small tweaks as needed throughout that time.

[HuMoR]

i have to agree with Guthix here.... 

 

however i wouldn't just start completly changing things. it may end up creating more problems after all..

 

what i would suggest is 

 

1st add 1 hand spell dmg wands

2nd deepen the talent tree's 

 

then review the classes as pure and hybrid and make adjustments then. imo HCS could make these 2 changes then set a month or 2 aside to monitor each class and hybrids and then make small tweaks as needed throughout that time.

agreed,but they also need to actually make the points spent in mage tree worth it...blizzard and overloads effect is useless as all hell...and frostbite will get you killed in 50 content+ all of their dps's blow.

[awollsd]

true enough indeed but that should be subtle changes made during the testing/montioring once the tree is extended to 45 and (hopefuly) 1h wands are added.

[HuMoR]

I don't see wands ever being added tbh..i seen the rejection of a 1 handed crossbow...and Im pretty sure a 1h wand is in the same category.

[awollsd]

maybe but i think it would help a lot of the issues mages have as it'ld give them more versitility...  there are 1h weapons for rangers yet none for casters. 

 

range has the options to use 2 1h OR 1h and a shield only losing some of the hand weapon stats while castors either lose them all or use staff no option to keep SOME of the stats. 

 

also they can make the wands themselves hit for melee dmg so cant be using melee attacks at range (much like the knives for ranger)  but should have a + sorc 1h weapon for option to dual wield or 1h + shield or 2h weapon.

 

doing that would open more build veriety and SHOULD help atleast a little with the balancing. add to that the deepened talent tree's then we could start seeing gaps close and then should start making the tweaks here and there to close them even further.

[ultramus]

The biggest problem with the mage is a lack of dps damage coming from aoe attacks. It's rendered the mage a backup healer with some dps in dungeons. However, if you stack a team with high dps classes (warriors/rangers) the mobs drop much faster and the chance of needing off-heals in case of the prophet falling is lessened considerably. Runs are simply much faster when a mage isn't present (everyone knows this    ).

 

PvP wise mage can be great if specced properly, but pve needs some work.  I can grind mobs effectively right now, but I worry future content will be designed with warsins in mind and mobs will have tons more hp...

 

Buffing Blizzard, Dragon's Breath and Overload would help balance things out pve wise without doing anything to make a mage op in PvP since they aren't very useful there.

[Alteration]

current scale in the game for AOE and single dps below
Single dps by highest to lowest-Assassin,rangers,warriors,templar,mage,prophet
AOe dps highest to lowest=warriors(soon be rangers at 50),rangers,assassins,prophets,mages,templars

i suggest any mages in the game to just spec hyb into proph or tank or fully respec to a prophet..as prophets can out dps you,have 3x your reductions and heal for 3x-4x.

Single dps is actually Sin, ranger, warrior, templar, prophet, mage (prophet with 2 points in incinerate has 300 more dps than mage, and more crit)

Aoe dps is actually Warrior, ranger, Sin, templar, mage, prophet (if blizzard was actually fixed, prophet would overtake mages here too)

Edited by Alteration, 09 July 2014 - 09:13.

[HuMoR]

ehh...i was testing my builds and my prophet was doing better aoe then the mage build not even speced into it..and as for single dps i didn't fully test that one yet. but the point is easily made that mages are at the bottom where dps is concerned,with  this problem existing that will kill off a LOT of players who start out on this from steam live as mages are a nice fan favorite class for majority of games.

[Susej]

Fixes for mage

 

Blizzard initial 60% dps

Chilling this talent makes blizzard deal 50(non specced) /70/90%, instead adds 50(non specced)/60/70%(now), fixing this will help mages in dungeons, still a bit beh make it maybe just maybe 30%/60%

 

SCALD- change this talent to increase bb duration by 2/4 secs

 

DB duration increase and cd decrease and make it a cone its measleading hwo i is now.

 

Breakdown to also deal 40%/80%, damage jolt deals damage why not despair

 

More incoming

Edited by Susej, 09 July 2014 - 13:34.

[HuMoR]

dragons breath shouldn't be a cone tbh...that ruins this aoe move,costs time to make a good placement for full effectiveness,and more then half the time during aoe farming (attempting) you have to stop using this within 2 seconds to flee so you can live O-o

[xpwaste]

Every class should have enough talents to make both specs pve and pvp.

and For who ever disagrees.

no just cause your a assassin it doesn't mean your bound to ST DPS.

Just because your a warrior it doesn't mean you bound to AOE DPS.

That's all i got to say. 

[HuMoR]

Every class should have enough talents to make both specs pve and pvp.

and For who ever disagrees.

no just cause your a assassin it doesn't mean your bound to ST DPS.

Just because your a warrior it doesn't mean you bound to AOE DPS.

That's all i got to say. 

Indeed and mage lack in pve and barely fit into pvp. only thing as stated before that truly keeps a mage lethal in pvp atm is plasma shield..without it...they would be all too easy to kill.

[Simeonus]

I've made PvP/PvE WarSin hybrid and since Rush is trash if they make 2 builds then war will be really useless I would rather do WarSin PvE and Sin PvP

[Irradiated]

(PvE)

I fully agree the mage needs some TLC.  Right now they are very effective soloing quests, but not so much in groups.

 

Not sure I like the wand, let's not start copying mechanics.  The ranger requires the flexibility because they are so glassy when solo, but require dual-wield mastery for maximum DPS in groups.  (I'll trade ranger ability to use a shield for Plasma Shield, better mana regen, and the various healing spells mages do get.  Deal?)

 

I also want to avoid situations where the classes homogenize.  We already have a best AOE, a best single target, and an almost as good at both.  The mage shouldn't just be another ranger.  Slightly different spells, but serve the exact purpose.  I see two ways to handle this.

 

Simple (homogenized, but at least they all have clear purposes):
Balance the classes for single target as:  Assassin, mage, ranger, warrior

      AOE as:  Warrior, ranger, mage, assassin

 

Better (IMO):

I mentioned this in another thread.  The mage could become the 'jack of all trades'.  Less DPS then the other classes, but effective off-heals and off-tanking (including ability to group taunt).  Able to fill in any roll for a short time (at least long enough for tank or healer to be resurrected).  In this case the DPS could be left alone; instead up the healing and short term survivability.

 

This would be immediately useful in helping to prevent wipes (mistakes do happen even with the best).  And the extra heals allows the tank to make larger pulls, offsetting the lower dps.

 

But we also need dungeon mechanics that make this desirable.  For example, if the tank crystal trap in RG was harder to break an off-tank could hold aggro rather then having everyone run around.  Or a boss could have archer adds that refuse to be taunted and shoot everyone.  An off-healer would not be required, but takes the pressure off the prophet keeping the group alive.

 

This could actually make the mage the most desirable class for groups (after tank/heals, of course).

Edited by Irradiated, 11 July 2014 - 16:04.

[HuMoR]

unfortunately that just wouldn't work...mages aren't meant to be templar prophets...in any game,can name a few games that tried it and those classes are extinct in those games..mages are the fan favorite styled class that people like to deal damage in unique ways. resurrecting dead to fight along side,summoning a bunch of things to fight with you (that are worth having) or high very slow dmg.

Also the class you are seeking to be made already exists,its a prophank. IMO its a bit over powered...making a class further that process would just throw the entire game off...wouldn't even need other classes. so by making a class such as this they would have to completely defeat the ability for a prophet tank hybrid or else the mage(prophank) would be useless and not played.

Mage needs new mechanics that are unique,and I pointed this out above...mages don't need slows and stuns on all their moves...they need uniqueness to damage. keep despair how it is...add something to blizzard and overload, hell even remove one or both if you have to to make something different. but to diffuse an entire set of class trees..just to make something replicate something already existent I don't feel is the way to go. 

The scenario you stated above is already able to be done by current prophanks also.


Other then that..liking the post,at least you're posting ideas for such things.

Edit for grammar


 

Edited by HuMoR, 11 July 2014 - 16:23.