35 replies to this topic

[Susej]

unfortunately that just wouldn't work...mages aren't meant to be templar prophets...in any game,can name a few games that tried it and those classes are extinct in those games..mages are the fan favorite styled class that people like to deal damage in unique ways. resurrecting dead to fight along side,summoning a bunch of things to fight with you (that are worth having) or high very slow dmg.

Also the class you are seeking to be made already exists,its a prophank. IMO its a bit over powered...making a class further that process would just throw the entire game off...wouldn't even need other classes. so by making a class such as this they would have to completely defeat the ability for a prophet tank hybrid or else the mage(prophank) would be useless and not played.

Mage needs new mechanics that are unique,and i pointed this out above...mages don't need slows and stuns on all their moves...they need uniqueness to damage. keep despair how it is...add something to blizzard and overload hell even remove one or both if you have to to make something different. but to diffuse an entire tree..just to make something replicate something already existent I don't feel is the way to go. 

The scenario you stated above is already able to be done by current prophanks also.

+1

 

Meleager you need to play mage to understand how weak it actually is.

 

If you want to whine about cauterize take in notice rangers(warriors/sins) can kyte equip essence cauterize and heal 72% with same power(both using fabled essence, only 100 fabled relics) as a mage  and equip bow and continue doing stuff, with higher dps and armor.

 

alas my point is if mages have less armor they should undoubtly have the best aoe dps of the group but mage skills are nerfed to the point that i see no mage around except dasan and ben.

 

And its worse then the other classes, and one of them says everyday i only play mage cause it aint so easy to win and gives me the thrill to do it.

 

and they are always doing pvp cause its the thing mages can do somewhat not that bad 

 

even john respeced to hybrid to have a better dps.

 

as said before mage needs a stronger blizzard and a fixed/improved chilling

 

i would like to see the mage with 2/3/4 summons that would make mage a summoner and give him a different purpose from the other classes. maybe void portal having 3 possible upgrades one per summon or anything of sort, and still be able to aoe decently.

[HuMoR]

Overload- new graphics...mage reaches to the air and shoots up a bolt of lightning the lightning comes down and splits apart hitting all targets in the area for 110%...and giving shock debuff. increased cd to 30 seconds. range 12 yards.
shock debuff= lasts 10/20/30 seconds..in the 30 seconds the shock does 2/4/6% dmg per sec and can randomly apply a damage knock off to the enemy and health regain and mana regain to caster(no more then 15%only once and at random)

Blizzard-mage summons a blizzard giant snow storm with big ice shards falling down impaling the area for 50/60/70% per sec for 5 seconds,blizzard applies cold weather debuff making all fire and melee based damages stronger for 15 seconds. 10/20/30% (this isn't op and also can further the usage of flamelash,db,all those under used fire moves including engulf...maybe even fulmination..while maintaining a positive usage for the melee based classes and templars!

Edited by HuMoR, 11 July 2014 - 17:14.

[Susej]

+1

 

i would like to see the mage with 2/3/4 summons that would make mage a summoner and give him a different purpose from the other classes. maybe void portal having 3 possible upgrades one per summon or anything of sort, and still be able to aoe decently.

I emmidiattly regret this as i see a party of 4 mages and one proph having 16 summons and doing dungeons without tank

[HuMoR]

I emmidiattly regret this as i see a party of 4 mages and one proph having 16 summons and doing dungeons without tank

was gonna say that haha

[HuMoR]

As for dragons breath...this in all honesty is a wasteful skill strictly my opinion..,this generates high threat almost = to ignite..to all enemies and the dmg is lacking and most of the time as stated before you have to flee from using it to attempt healing to survive so you lose the remaining dps of the attack. This move needs slightly higher dps..160-165% dps per sec is what its base should be...also broaden the dang cone >.< can have 3 enemies close up and if at each others side you'll only hit 2..and the timing to get this move to be effective is horrid..drop its cd to 45-60 seconds...90 seconds is very wrong...especially when other classes have higher dps moves with 1/4 that cd.

Edited by HuMoR, 11 July 2014 - 17:27.

[Irradiated]

I like where this discussion is going.  A few points in order of the post I'm responding to:

 

Guth:  The prophTank is not the same as I was describing, but I take your point.  It's just that many of the suggestions have been to make the mage more ranger-like.  But you're correct, there are other ways to make the mage better and still unique.  DOTs and summons, as mentioned previously, are two.

 

Suse:  I understand the problem with mage.  I was not objecting to improving the mage, only saying don't make a ranger clone out of it.  And btw, rangers can't kite equip an essence if we want to do any serious damage, so cannot hope to heal themselves.

 

Guth:  Just making the mage stronger is tricky.  We now have to play a fine line, where it's perfectly balanced with ranger et al, so we don't make mages useful by making another class useless.  I really like your idea for synergies, though.  The mage debuff will also improve Blazing Arrow and Detonate.  Perhaps Monsoon could apply a debuff for magic and cold damage.  In fact, give each class a debuff talent.  After talking with you, leave the debuffs for the mage.  Set them up in such a way that mage improves DPS for all classes.

 

Suse:  Summons can work either of two ways.  The 2/3/4 works if summoning generates threat, but the summons themselves don't.  Or just move all the improved summons talents from Familiar to Void Portal, making at least one of them a damage boost.  (I was going to say make ranger pet more tanky with AOE threat that can be turned on by hotkey, except... four rangers and a healer anyone?  So we'll have to consider new ranger talents in this scenario.)

 

Guth: I don't know if I'd call DB a waste, but it is certainly a big part of the problem.

 

Almost as difficult as writing an MMO is getting the classes properly balanced.  And this is made more difficult when you allow hybrids.  Slowly improving over time, I have faith that the game will eventually get this correct.

Edited by Irradiated, 11 July 2014 - 20:27.

[HuMoR]

I like where this discussion is going.  A few points in order of the post I'm responding to:

 

Guth:  The prophTank is not the same as I was describing, but I take your point.  It's just that many of the suggestions have been to make the mage more ranger-like.  But you're correct, there are other ways to make the mage better and still unique.  DOTs and summons, as mentioned previously, are two.

 

Suse:  I understand the problem with mage.  I was not objecting to improving the mage, only saying don't make a ranger clone out of it.  And btw, rangers can't kite equip an essence if we want to do any serious damage, so cannot hope to heal themselves.

 

Guth:  Just making the mage stronger is tricky.  We now have to play a fine line, where it's perfectly balanced with ranger et al, so we don't make mages useful by making another class useless.  I really like your idea for synergies, though.  The mage debuff will also improve Blazing Arrow and Detonate.  Perhaps Monsoon could apply a debuff for magic and cold damage.  In fact, give each class a debuff talent.  After talking with you, leave the debuffs for the mage.  Set them up in such a way that mage improves DPS for all classes.

 

Suse:  Summons can work either of two ways.  The 2/3/4 works if summoning generates threat, but the summons themselves don't.  Or just move all the improved summons talents from Familiar to Void Portal, making at least one of them a damage boost.  (I was going to say make ranger pet more tanky with AOE threat that can be turned on by hotkey, except... four rangers and a healer anyone?  So we'll have to consider new ranger talents in this scenario.)

 

Guth: I don't know if I'd call DB a waste, but it is certainly a big part of the problem.

 

Almost as difficult as writing an MMO is getting the classes properly balanced.  And this is made more difficult when you allow hybrids.  Slowly improving over time, I have faith that the game will eventually get this correct.

I feel db is a giant waste as more then 50% of the scenarios you can't effectively use it all the way. Yes this game will eventually get it fixed and balanced for most part. As i was saying earlier in this post..mages need uniqueness and a reworked talent tree because right now its just mesh on mesh of talents that don't really go with the class at all..

[Bryn]

I noticed y'all haven't really said anything about Boiling Blood.  If it wasn't for the long cast time, this ability, along with the talents, would be almost useful, almost.  That brings me to Stuns and Stun immunity.  2 points in Scald gives a 20% chance to stun 1s for each tick of BB.  Not awful until you consider stun immunity that is twice the length of the Stun (i think?).  That leaves about a 22% chance of stunning for 2 seconds, the minimum guaranteed stun length of every other class...

[HuMoR]

BB is moderately useful in pvp while attempting to kite dps,but i did state in the other thread that it require a nice buff.

[awollsd]

we've asked for BB cast time reduction since early beta  unfortunatly doesn't seem to be going to happen

[EJK]

we've asked for BB cast time reduction since early beta  unfortunatly doesn't seem to be going to happen

If BB gets a smaller channel time, the ability will seem like a ranger ability. I use BB as the first ability I cast on mobs, because it does good damage and on mobs I can wait the time, because they attack when the first hit comes.

 

Shouldn't mages specialty be long channel times, weak amour and powerful abilities? That's how I've understood it should be.

Edited by EJK, 12 July 2014 - 10:46.

[HuMoR]

If BB gets a smaller channel time, the ability will seem like a ranger ability. I use BB as the first ability I cast on mobs, because it does good damage and on mobs I can wait the time, because they attack when the first hit comes.

 

Shouldn't mages specialty be long channel times, weak amour and powerful abilities? That's how I've understood it should be.

unfortunately that isn't what the class actually is atm. Also,i wouldn't ask for the channel time to be reduced,just the dmg increased a little bit. maybe boiling point be 25%/50% tbh..even 30/60% wouldn't be top for that cast time + fact it can be ignored a little bit with the current state of the game.

[Bryn]

Another reason Mages are the last DPS picked for dungeons.  Poor talent interaction with group's damage:

 

Warrior - Crushing Blows can be up ~constantly with AoEs and affects everything in range

Assassin - Shock Trauma can probably be up half the time? with Blind and affects everything in range

Ranger - Eagle Eye can be up ~constantly with the AoEs and affects everything in range

Mage - Static Discharge can be up constantly with Overload, but only affects 5 targets... 

[EJK]

Another reason Mages are the last DPS picked for dungeons.  Poor talent interaction with group's damage:

 

Warrior - Crushing Blows can be up ~constantly with AoEs and affects everything in range

Assassin - Shock Trauma can probably be up half the time? with Blind and affects everything in range

Ranger - Eagle Eye can be up ~constantly with the AoEs and affects everything in range

Mage - Static Discharge can be up constantly with Overload, but only affects 5 targets... 

Maybe a talent that gives blizzard something similar to what the other classes have.

[Irradiated]

Maybe a talent that gives blizzard something similar to what the other classes have.

Please, not what other classes have.  Games with that philosophy end up with homogenous classes.

 

Guthix (especially), myself, and others have presented a number of excellent suggestions for making the mage far more desirable in groups while keeping (or even furthering) its uniqueness.

 

(I still believe my idea for Engulf would make a good stop gap, so I'm going to repeat it .  Cannot be removed, player or mob cast on receives the aggro.  Helps tank with threat in groups while doing respectable AOE damage.  Cast on mob an interesting form of CC.  Would require longer CD.)

[EJK]

Please, not what other classes have.  Games with that philosophy end up with homogenous classes.

 

Guthix (especially), myself, and others have presented a number of excellent suggestions for making the mage far more desirable in groups while keeping (or even furthering) its uniqueness.

 

(I still believe my idea for Engulf would make a good stop gap, so I'm going to repeat it .  Cannot be removed, player or mob cast on receives the aggro.  Helps tank with threat in groups while doing respectable AOE damage.  Cast on mob an interesting form of CC.  Would require longer CD.)

Bryn said that every other class had something similar, that would require you to make up unique abilities to replace abilities of other classes too.