22 replies to this topic

[Railguy]

Hey,

I'm new to the game and am really enjoying it so far.  I'd like to put in my 2 cents on what I think is most important in the upcoming updates.

 

First of all, I really like the progress this game has shown so far.  The devs are showing incredible dedication to adding new features, and I thank them for it.  As the game grows and more people join, I think one feature becomes more and more necessary.  Guilds.  I don't know what the timeline is for new features, but I feel like at this point a basis for people to come together, whether it be for high level raiding, pvp groups, or trade companies is essential.  With that would have to come a guild bank for shared supplies.

 

One other thing I wanted to note was that the game seems very pay to win at this point.  Now, don't get me wrong, considering the game is free, if the devs want to make it pay to win they have every right.  And I'm not suggesting anything like getting rid of eldevin points or subscriptions.  However, I think it would be nice if there was a way to convert gold into eldevin points so that people who work hard can get some of the same benefits as people who buy EP.  Again, this is my opinion, and if the devs don't like it, they can ignore my ranting.

 

Anyways, thanks for listening.

[Dasan]

Well, guilds was suggested v long time ago. HCS are working on it. About buying ep wiht gold, u can do it atm with no problems, cause people who needs gold are selling ep with no problems for gold. So its no real p2w,  cause with gold u can  buy enough ep. I never bought single ep with cash and i have enough of it just by trading gold for ep's.

[Neon]

It is pay2win and many new players will realise this when checking the game out...

[ernzor]

some people view 'pay 4 convenience' as 'pay 2 win'

 

I dont.

[redsmokeboy]

Very on term pay to win = to you

 

Pay to win mean's Take out CC get in game cash shop point Elevin point's buy way thought with almost no effefort on your part.

 

For most part EP - Buy all but 2 skill's

Gem's

 

For most part buying high lvl gem's is more less pay to win with little effort on your part collect the gem's

 

 

thought thought cash shop very little in way of item's you will wont to buy Bag space + Sack's only pay to win mean's realy need for skilling or holding number of item make some in game gold start with.

 

Limited bag space lack over all mean's hold alot gathering item stack size small. more less leaning more pay to win.

 

Pay for coviance more proper meaning as bag space sack's vantie pet's mount's for most part can be gained in game thought trading gold for EP or doing free offer's for ep.

 

As well many item via cash shop have don't effect game game play time take get to end game or help much in way make you any better in pvp other then buying gem's from other player's no option in cash shop buy gem's so not realy pay win, Pay for conviancce

 

Term in it self, very on how defiend - Pay to win vs Pay for covaince - Don't have spend any thing game get every from cash shop via trade's - free EP offer's

 

Many way's Free player get these take little longer in term but very easy obatin
 

 

 However, I think it would be nice if there was a way to convert gold into eldevin points so that people who work hard can get some of the same benefits as people who buy EP

 

Open trade window with another player see 2 option gold - EP - There is option in game trade EP - Gold thus what asking for is in game.

Edited by redsmokeboy, 08 August 2014 - 23:54.

[Dasan]

It is pay2win and many new players will realise this when checking the game out...

its not p2win many people are missunderstanding this, im bit surprised that u not understanding difference between p2w and pay 4 convenience..

[lester]

its not p2win many people are missunderstanding this, im bit surprised that u not understanding difference between p2w and pay 4 convenience..

But when is the line crossed? When you can be filthy rich , buy a crap ton of EP turn that into gold and when the auction house comes out , you will buy a ton of mats getting to level 45 in many stats in a single day. Basically meaning that you are buying stats with real money, which would take others a weeks or months  to do the same legitly.

[Irradiated]

But when is the line crossed? When you can be filthy rich , buy a crap ton of EP turn that into gold and when the auction house comes out , you will buy a ton of mats getting to level 45 in many stats in a single day. Basically meaning that you are buying stats with real money, which would take others a weeks or months  to do the same legitly.

Why someone would want to do that is beyond me.  Go for Progress Quest if you want to win without actually playing.

 

And yes, maybe not in a day but if someone wanted to buy their way to the end and buy all the best they could.  And everything that person did can be done by the f2p gamer, just takes longer.  And anywhere in between.  You decide how much ~convenience~ you want to buy, if any.

 

The line is crossed when players cannot reasonably be expected to ever 'win' (reach end game) without spending money.  And many have proven that is not the case.

[xpwaste]

at the end, the thing that makes it pay 2 win, is that point where A f2p no matter how hard he tries can never reach the same level as of a player in a time period which he can endure.

With the ep being trade able , it really makes it very very "convenient"[if that is how you guys want to quote it] for payer to get what they want rather easily. I am not saying that it is wrong, after all you are supporting the game through it. Though it matters how the rate of ep/gold is.

Some one with EP can buy any mats he wants/any gems he wants with just spending 0 minutes grinding in the game. 

Let me explain it further. 

• Gems are a commodity , that at end game matter a lot and are the most valued item of the game. So you spend 10$ or 50$ you get your gems, you get you FP by trading EP to someone. VOILA! you've just made yourselves the highest tier gem in the game with just spending 50$ and not grinding for it.

Another example can be the professions. 

• Someone who grinds [a f2p guy] for money so that he could by the mats he wants to level up the profession. has to grind for days to even get 500gold.
• Finally he gets that much gold and posts " WTB x item, paying in gold"
• A payer goes to the shop spends 5$ or 10$. get's the ep. And posts " wtb x item paying EP"
• Now who do you think will get the mats first? the guy with the EP. someone who grinded is just left like a dead fish waiting for someone who will prefer gold over EP. [some of you can go on saying htat we sell for gold or w/e but in reallity no one would prefer gold over EP.]

This just devalues the ingame currency and making the buyable currency the easiest damn way to get anything you want at an instant , hence avoiding the grind that others have to go to get the same thing.

• Same is with the sets, double relics means your spending half the time as a payer.

I am not saying it is wrong, you are payers and you support the game.But the current situation is very disheartening for anyone who joins the gmae or has played it.The ratio of EP/GOLD plays a major role in this too. since the rate is 1gold = 0.5ep.[when i used to be active in game]. And in no way unless someone like mongo who can grind 24hours a day and enjoy it......people would just rather quit than be over taken by people who have big wallets. 

 

I'd leave it upto you guys to decide if it is pay2win or not.

Edited by xpwaste, 09 August 2014 - 04:31.

[Alteration]

You guys are forgetting that EP is just a currency, there is actually nothing worth buying in cash shop with ep, aside from repair kits.  The main reason people trade in EP is cuz of convenience, it has no cap.  I at one point, had 10k ep, and absolutely nothing to do with it, so I just converted it back into gold and bought bag slots/bags, pets/mounts, and abilities.  And gems yes.  But mostly gold for the things I mentioned above, and to upgrade gems.  It takes 3.5k gold just to upgrade to a tier 10 gem.  

 

Point is, it's a currency, with nothing worth buying with it.  Gold is actually more versatile, and a lot of things are needed with gold.  If there are too much EP sellers (P2Winners as you guys call it), then EP price will drop.  There are less people running stuff, so price of gems is going up.  If more P2W players join the game, EP price will drop.  It will cost a lot more than 200$ just to catch up to where all the free players are at this point.  

Edited by Alteration, 09 August 2014 - 08:53.

[Kiriito]

But when is the line crossed? When you can be filthy rich , buy a crap ton of EP turn that into gold and when the auction house comes out , you will buy a ton of mats getting to level 45 in many stats in a single day. Basically meaning that you are buying stats with real money, which would take others a weeks or months  to do the same legitly.

That sounds like a Pay for Convenience not Pay to win all the current cash shop features just speed up your leveling and progress there is nothing a none paying member cannot do the same as EP buyer its just they get it faster.

[Fizban]

What is there to win? let me know so i can buy it with RL money how can anyone say this game is P2W when there is nothing to win, at the moment maximum level is 45 and will be raised to 50, so reaching cap is not part of the P2W culture, i would really like to know what is P2W in this game if anyone can explain and i don't mean fast tracking to level cap or skills equipment etc, as others have said, it may be pay for convenience but then fast track to cap and sit and moan about lack of content?

[Neon]

It's already evident that the current "active players" will defend the state of the game. My post:

 

 

It is pay2win and many new players will realise this when checking the game out...

I was simply stating like this new player questioned that others will try the game and realise that it is.

 

Theres really no need to go into why it is pay2win, it's obvious. There is of course nothing wrong with this model if the devs want it to stay like this. But many mmorpg players despise this model and it's typically associated with Chinese mmorpgs which have a reputation for being bad.

Edited by Neon, 09 August 2014 - 14:44.

[Bryn]

As a current F2P player, double relics feel a bit P2W to me.  Maybe it is the lack of guilds or the small player base, but when others are getting their sets in half the time and then deciding not to run anymore, it left the rest of us begging for the occasional run.

 

A little off topic, but what concerns me most about Gems is that those who have farmed or bought full sets of Tier 9 and 10 gems will be complaining about how easy newly released content is...  Those that follow us will not be sitting at level 45 for months!

[xpwaste]

A little off topic, but what concerns me most about Gems is that those who have farmed or bought full sets of Tier 9 and 10 gems will be complaining about how easy newly released content is...  Those that follow us will not be sitting at level 45 for months!

+1

[Mongo]

I was kinda on the fence before double relics were added. After double relics, the game is clearly P2W. I will try to explain why I feel this is the case, don't hate me. 

 

If you feel you can not "win" this game, then you are taking the phrase P2W too literally as it means different things to different types of players. This is what I think makes the game pay to win, in my opinion...

 

Take 2 players, we will assume they both want to get their new fabled relic set asap and both have the same exact time in equal groups grinding a dungeon.

 

Player A (free to play), skill level 10/10, hours playing per day 6.

Player B (supporter), skill level 10/10, hours playing per day 6.

 

Can Player A compete with Player B?

 

Nope, not a chance!

 

Player B just paid to beat Player A to their new sets. Hell, they got their set twice as fast! 

 

Gems are the second example of clear P2W:

 

Player A (free to play) spends hours, more hours, a few more hours, then loads more hours to grind out their gems, trade their gems, grind out the gold and powder to fuse their gems.

 

Player B (paying) joins game and hits level cap, buys EP and grabs a perfect gem in every slot within minutes.

 

Now lets assume both these players have the same class/talent setup for their PvP and again, the same skill level. Player B just PAID for a big stat advantage. It might take Player A years to catch up and get his perfect gem in every slot.

 

Can Player A compete with Player B?

 

Hell no!

 

I will end with this though...

 

What people define as P2W is up to them. My advice to everyone considering this... play the game, and make your own judgements if Eldevin is P2W or not. Do not let others make your mind up for you.

 

Just because I think it is P2W does not mean you will, the same way as just because ernzor thinks it is PFC (pay for convenience) does not mean I have to agree. 

[Mongo]

Forgot about the remnants and flakes too, paying player can buy all they need... in an instant. Free player would have to grind for days, weeks or even months to get/trade them 

[ZooksterGaming]

Forgot about the remnants and flakes too, paying player can buy all they need... in an instant. Free player would have to grind for days, weeks or even months to get/trade them 

As long as someone can supply them
But yeah in a way I have begun to agree with this game beeing p2w. Even if not intended by HCS themselves, but made p2w by players.
But then a true p2w model isnt anywhere near what Eldevin is. Paying for a constant boost over f2p players (usually stuff like the best weapons and gear in a game, which Eldevin doesnt have at all).

The only reason why I still would say Eldevin is Pay for Convinience (spelling ) is because any player, Premium or Freemium can get the best stuff in this game.

(For HCS I suggest making EP bound and remove gold from shop to remove all this problem. There is already Free EP offers to get)

[Bryn]

Double relics...  I would suggest double relics only for the final boss.  Supporter gets Fabled set 17 days faster than non-supporter from ASV runs.

 

Gems are THE tradeable/sellable commodity in Eldevin, so making them bound is not a good solution.  I offer two other possibilities:

1.  Cap gem benefits in PvP.

2.  No gem benefits in PvP, but introduce PvP Gems that are bound.

[Railguy]

there is actually nothing worth buying in cash shop with ep, aside from repair kits.

How about 16 slot bags?

 

Look, it was never my intention to start a battle on whether the game is pay to win or not.  Actually, what I view as the more important part of my post is guilds.  Yes, I know its been suggested before, what I am suggested is that it comes in the next patch or too instead of the generic "Soon" ™ 

 

And I guess my p2w views are different than most.  Basically if a game lets you trade real money for any sort of competitive edge, even if it is obtainable by normal wins, I view that as pay to win, because basically someone is able to use money in the place of time, and I like it when progress in a game reflects the amount of work you put in.

 

That being said this game is offered to us completely free, so while I may not agree with the pay to win mindset, it is ultimately the developer's choice if they choose to make their money that way.