6 replies to this topic

[Brioche]

Right now, there are two problems I face whenever I want to respec.

1. I don't know if I can trust the talent descriptions of talents I've never used before.

Let's face it, HCS doesn't test the talents. They merely wait for player feedback about bugs before they take action.

Take Chilling for example. The description used to say "Increases the damage of Blizzard by 20/40% Spell DPS", but what it actually did was increase the damage of the spell by 20/40%. (Since Blizzard does 50% Spell DPS, that was 10/20% Spell DPS.) It wasn't discovered until someone felt that the damage was rather low and actually went to test it.

There have been numerous documented bugs about talents already, and there will be more if nobody tests them. However, I'm certainly not going to spend my precious 250ep just to test something that ought to have been tested already.

2. I don't know how talents interact with each other.

If two or more talents affect an ability, are the bonuses stacked additively or multiplicatively?

Impalement increases the damage of Impale by 50% Melee DPS. Bathe in Blood increases the damage of Impale by 30%. If I have points in both, does the 30% from Bathe in Blood affect the 50% Melee DPS from Impalement, or does the 30% just affect the base 80% Melee DPS from Impale?

Depending on the results, I might decide to spend my points elsewhere.

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I know that test servers have been suggested before, and I still think it's a good idea. If that's not possible, then how about creating an in-game instance and call it The Respec Room or something?

Features of this Room:

You can freely add or take away attribute and talent points.
There are dummies with varying levels of armor for testing purposes. Dummies for attacking, dummies for healing.
Another area with Golems of 3 attack types. Base DPS of 1000, and your hp is restored after each hit.

Most importantly: when you leave the room, you are asked, "Would you like to keep the changes you have made and consume your Respec Cooldown?"

- No
- Yes (Respec Cooldown will be consumed and reset to 60 days)

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If there was such a room, I definitely wouldn't mind helping HCS test the talents, and I'm sure there are many of us who would be willing to do it too

Edited by Brioche, 16 January 2015 - 01:54.

[HolyGhost]

*cracks knuckles*
As somebody with over 60 respecs, a severe overhaul would help me a lot.
I've had numerous people come to me asking for build/talent help and my responses have been very limited to some questions people have came to me with.
A good idea would be this respec room, or even unlimited respec's for 12-24 hours after one, a place to save builds and hotbars so you can switch back and forth, a dual spec option, an option to unlock spec's like character slots and freely change between them and respec each individual spec... anything really, but what we have now. It's basic, outdated compared to everything else ingame, and easy to screw up one-two talent points and ruin a build then have to pay 250ep again (yes, even with the confirm button)
 

[sdcrichy]

ok i'm not having a go at you or anyone here but here is a quick example of what you said about this.

 

Take Chilling for example. The description used to say "Increases the damage of Blizzard by 20/40% Spell DPS", but what it actually did was increase the damage of the spell by 20/40%. (Since Blizzard does 50% Spell DPS, that was 10/20% Spell DPS.) It wasn't discovered until someone felt that the damage was rather low and actually went to test it.

 

 

ok say your dps is 1000, blizzard does 50% dps damage. so thats 500dps damage then 20% of 500dps is 100dps damage, and 200dps damage for 40%. which does work out at 10/20% of you overhall dps damage.    it just takes a bit of carefull reading to understand it right.   hope i haven't offended anyone by trying to explain this.

Edited by sdcrichy, 16 January 2015 - 08:19.

[Brioche]

ok i'm not having a go at you or anyone here but here is a quick example of what you said about this.
 
Take Chilling for example. The description used to say "Increases the damage of Blizzard by 20/40% Spell DPS", but what it actually did was increase the damage of the spell by 20/40%. (Since Blizzard does 50% Spell DPS, that was 10/20% Spell DPS.) It wasn't discovered until someone felt that the damage was rather low and actually went to test it.
 
 
ok say your dps is 1000, blizzard does 50% dps damage. so thats 500dps damage then 20% of 500dps is 100dps damage, and 200dps damage for 40%. which does work out at 10/20% of you overhall dps damage.    it just takes a bit of carefull reading to understand it right.   hope i haven't offended anyone by trying to explain this.

 
The problem here is that % of DPS and % of ability have two different meanings, and yet "Increased by % of Melee/Ranged/Spell DPS" is sometimes used to describe both cases, in different talents. Likewise, "Damage of X ability is increased by X%" sometimes refers to being increased by a percentage of DPS. Not only is the description unclear, it's also inaccurate.

 

Edit: double quote

Edited by Brioche, 17 January 2015 - 09:12.

[Alteration]

Should make the talent descriptions clearer.

 

Talents that increase damage comes in 2 categories

1. Increases X talent by 10/20/30% of spell dps = adds 10/20/30% spell dps to the talent (200% dps + 10/20/30%)

2. Increases Y talent by 10/20% damage = adds 10/20/30% of the base damage of the talent by 10/20/30% (200% dps + 20/40/60%)

 

So for detonate for example, it deals 125% damage, and has +15/30/45% of damage increase, and has +3/6/9% of damage increase -> fully maxed, it deals 125% x (100 + 45 + 9)% = 125% x 154% = 192.5% of spell dps

 

Same goes for ignite, it deals 250% x 150% = 375% of spell dps

 

While blizzard deals 50% + 50% = 100% of spell dps

 

 

 

 

Should just standardize, and pick 1 way to describe.  Especially since even the person who type out the talent description is confused himself, and describing talents one way when meaning another.  

 

 

 

Regarding the blizzard thing before sd, it used to describe chilling as increasing blizzard dps by 20/40% of spell dps, so people thought it meant +20/40%, but it was doing +10/20%, which is +20/40% of the damage not spell dps.  It wasn't a matter of reading it carefully, but it was incorrectly described.  

Edited by Alteration, 16 January 2015 - 15:20.

[rowbet]

ok i'm not having a go at you or anyone here but here is a quick example of what you said about this.

 

Take Chilling for example. The description used to say "Increases the damage of Blizzard by 20/40% Spell DPS", but what it actually did was increase the damage of the spell by 20/40%. (Since Blizzard does 50% Spell DPS, that was 10/20% Spell DPS.) It wasn't discovered until someone felt that the damage was rather low and actually went to test it.

 

 

ok say your dps is 1000, blizzard does 50% dps damage. so thats 500dps damage then 20% of 500dps is 100dps damage, and 200dps damage for 40%. which does work out at 10/20% of you overhall dps damage.    it just takes a bit of carefull reading to understand it right.   hope i haven't offended anyone by trying to explain this.

 

I'd have to agree with Brioche on this. "20/40 % Spell DPS" does not tell me whether it is my spell DPS or the spell's spell DPS. Indeed, when I look at my character specs page I find I have a value there for "Spell DPS" that applies to all spells, so I'd have to say that the most reasonable interpretation is that chilling should be adding 200/400 dps in your example.

 

This skill description is ambiguous, and I would say that the most careful reading leads to the wrong interpretation.

[Ood]

One of the better respec ideas out there. To me better than changing cooldown or even a 12-24 hour 'free respec' time.

 

If respec must be changed (popular opinion will likely make it so, despite my disagreement) so far I like this way of doing it best.