55 replies to this topic

[rowbeth]

I think being able to pause it would defeat the point of it. I don't see that they would need to be bound - on the contary I think they would be good for trading as there should be a constant demand for them due to the items essentially being consumable

 

That depends on how long is on the clock. If it doesn't pause,  the total time would be counted in days/ weeks, but if it is pausable you would count it in hours.

 

A 12 hour item, pausing when unequipped, would cover 6-12 hunts for most people.

 

On the other hand, if you exclude any chance to pause the count down, then you may find these become one-time-use items for people with big stam banks.

 

 

However, I really don't think this will affect the "problem" with the economy people keep talking about. Two big causes of this "problem" are:

 

(1) the continual evolution of bigger and better items rendering items obsolete [+2 stam gain items will never hold their value once +4, +5... items come out) and

 

(2) the lack of an increasing population (when I first started it was a bit like a pyramid selling scheme---there was always more people looking to buy my items when I finished with them than there were com peting with me to buy them in the first place, so the economy for recycling items was very buoyant).

 

This proposal won't nullify either of these factors.

 

Fundamentally, for a stable economy you need a stable population of people in every level range needing to re-equip with existing items, and that is a very difficult thing to do over a long time in any game.

 

You also need to be careful about the cost to the bulk of players who are not very rich. For my first 1500 levels, I could only afford to invest in good gear because I knew I could regain my investment once I had finished with it. This will obviously be impossible with time-limited items. If these items are the best-in-class, then you may end up ostracising lots of not-so-new players. Either that, or providing so big a source of the items that they will not satisfy the desire for a high-value market place that you were trying to assuage.

 

 

[Edited because the numbered-list function seems to show in the composer but not in the forum once posted!]

Edited by rowbeth, 21 August 2015 - 07:03.

[Filletminion]

Personally nothing against the idea but why do we need it ?

[yghorbeviahn]

I really like the idea, some suggestions:

1 - Maybe you can be able to add Time/Duration to the item by adding Epics over it.
- The item never 'disappear' from you, when the time ends, the item go to your BP (or Mailbox if BP is full), but you can pay the Enhancer to add duration to the item, the Enhancer asks for X amount of Gold/FSP and an Epic, bigger the level of the Epic, bigger is the time added to it.

Of course that will not work for items with low price, but maybe for some Special kind of item that can work, and will raise the value of Epics a little.

[rowbeth]

Also, wasn't this part of the idea behind crystal items? Competing demands of players seem to have voided that effect.

 

And, these would need to be sets and not just items, since SH and CordA/D have made non-set items useless for most aspects of the game other than offline stam gain. This would make it even harder for these items to sustain a high-value high-profit market without turning FS into (effectively) a pay-to-play game. They might be able to sustain a high-volume-low-profit market.

Edited by rowbeth, 21 August 2015 - 07:09.

[Morgwyn]

Save yourself a lot of work and improve the crystaline gear. I think that would be better than to add another equipment type. 

 

- Add more (useable) crystaline gear/sets.

- Decrease the durability.

- Consider less/none effect by Unbreakable.

[Bluetail]

I like the idea of these new "Cursed Gear" would add more dynamic elements to the game (Gear that cant be efficiently shared, ect). Another alternative is a version of Crystalline Gear that does not save durability from Unbreakable. Not sure which would work better but I like the idea of expiring sets, in other games Ive played those are the most valuable. The new Cursed Gear would be a great idea, make it inventable with old, outdated PvP gear. The new set can be identical to the old one but have a 20-25% boost in stats. Maybe have the gear come already hellforged + perfect since it doesnt sound economical to hellforge something that will last 2-3 days at best.

 

An alternative would be to just make Crystalline Gear with less durability but again Im sure a timer would do much better in breaking gear. I think 48-72 hours would be nice since a ladder session lasts 48-72 hours most of the time. 

 

The way I see it right now the gear would have to have some decent stam gain if its going to be introduced. It costs 1 FSP for 25 stamina. So if it gave 8 stamina per hour (roughly 3 stam more than any epic out) it would give roughly 8 FSP worth of stamina (if the item lasts 72 hours and in addition to the best epics). The pro is it will give that item a minimum value of 8 FSP which is great. But Im against having this though because it will KILL epic prices. I dont hunt titans so it would be great for someone like me who buys their epics, but could ruin it for titan hunters.

 

My suggestion if youre going to give the new gear stamina gain, is to keep the stam gain along the lines of the epics out at that level (2-5 depending on the level), but make the gear worth equipping/buying by making it have a good amount of extra stats. Players would love to buy competitive PvP gear (perferrably they come in sets, so set buffs work) even if it only gives +2 stamina gain an hour (which is still 5FSP worth of stamina from the upgrades section- which you normally wouldnt get if you were wearing competitive pvp gear).

Edited by Blue Tail, 21 August 2015 - 09:41.

[johnagod]

Loving this concept

[clock96]

Can you call it "Clock Items" ? XD

[Kedyn]

 

However, I really don't think this will affect the "problem" with the economy people keep talking about. Two big causes of this "problem" are:

 

(1) the continual evolution of bigger and better items rendering items obsolete [+2 stam gain items will never hold their value once +4, +5... items come out) and

 

(2) the lack of an increasing population (when I first started it was a bit like a pyramid selling scheme---there was always more people looking to buy my items when I finished with them than there were com peting with me to buy them in the first place, so the economy for recycling items was very buoyant).

 

This proposal won't nullify either of these factors.

 

Fundamentally, for a stable economy you need a stable population of people in every level range needing to re-equip with existing items, and that is a very difficult thing to do over a long time in any game.

 

You also need to be careful about the cost to the bulk of players who are not very rich. For my first 1500 levels, I could only afford to invest in good gear because I knew I could regain my investment once I had finished with it. This will obviously be impossible with time-limited items. If these items are the best-in-class, then you may end up ostracising lots of not-so-new players. Either that, or providing so big a source of the items that they will not satisfy the desire for a high-value market place that you were trying to assuage.

 

+1 to this information - it's the economy that's the issue. With a lack of players and the "creation" of new gear that supersedes any past sets, it will automatically create a disconnect - whether the gear is "time-limited" or not. Whenever you create bigger and badder sets (aka better stats than previous sets), then you're automatically out-dating something. Whenever you created new 2-item sets, that almost automatically killed most 3+ item sets. Whenever you create new combinations where a 2-item set fits in with better gear than what was originally created (original LE sets), then you essentially reduce the need for those older sets. Those are the ones that sit in backpacks or are composed because they aren't worth anything.

 

If you start to use those older sets for things such as inventing (without allowing the mega inventing potions to work), then you will start to bring value back to those set items. Outside of a lack of a continually growing population and the replacement of older sets with new shiny sets (which definitely is needed), the Inventor potions were the biggest disruptive to the marketplace/economy. While I love the idea of inventors saving items, which then lowers the price for all of the players, it also drowns the economy whenever multiple players invent, even if they hold onto the items. 

 

If you go with "cursed" or time-limited items, that's fine. It won't fix the core problem though. 

 

Edit: Removed double-post

Edited by Kedyn, 21 August 2015 - 13:14.

[Kbyte]

There are some confusion about it IF:

 

I) it will be on new equips, called "cursed equips" [name to chose later]

which can be released on events more often due it's expire time [it could be 10% stronger than legies and crystaline gear], but should not totally replace legies and crystaline gear.

 

II) or if it  will be on all current equips available on the game

which will require legyies, crystaline event to all levels to be run super often [almost full time] to supply players to get another set (they farming for own use) [on ladder for example players need to wear pvp equips almost 24 hours per day when their band is active] for them to use [it would turn guild tagged equips useless super fast] and also would make players which have low "resources" to be unable to buy equips again and again [they may would not like it / the only players that would like that change would be the ah profiters].

 

For some players that can not even supply their equips (mainly low levels) which use guild equips it would make them to be close to impossible to level up or pvp (on pvp event or ladder) without gear [at the beggining most guild would try to supply it for all but on the long run maybe not]. Also normal pvp would be way easier [and no fun] to attack players naked [which is what would happen a lot often if all equips have become with expire time when equipped]

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________

 

what makes equips to worth less faster are the inventable recipes and omacaz pot with invent I and II level 500 [mass inventing] => it would be good to no longer make this pot available.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________

 

And epics are non-recyclable equips => sth should be done mainly to reduce the amount of epics on the game [could even be able to break the epic to gain "special fragment" to buy special potions -> could be those buffs we see on ah but there is no potion or buffs which grants them].

Edited by Kbyte, 21 August 2015 - 16:44.

[tuvok77]

Uhm how about limited items that are "limited" like you can get em from a trader or a special event and theres a limited quantity available. No more of that item will come in. Maybe make it good items that are available for around a month, after which the vendor or event will vanish and make the vendor or event return every 3-4 months and have new goodies. Maybe make the items itself only purchaseable with fsp or being kind of a stamina sink to even get em, they will be limited to being able to purchase only 1 per player, but they will be tradeable

[Kbyte]

Uhm how about limited items that are "limited" like you can get em from a trader or a special event and theres a limited quantity available. No more of that item will come in. Maybe make it good items that are available for around a month, after which the vendor or event will vanish and make the vendor or event return every 3-4 months and have new goodies. Maybe make the items itself only purchaseable with fsp or being kind of a stamina sink to even get em, they will be limited to being able to purchase only 1 per player, but they will be tradeable

 

This would be sth following this line of discussion

 

I) IF it will be on new equips, called "cursed equips" [name to chose later]

Edited by Kbyte, 21 August 2015 - 16:51.

[handitover]

One of the common themes of the request for new rewards throughout all aspects of the game seem to be that items lose their value over time as more of each of the items get added to the game. This is less so with consumable items (ie. potions) as they get used up and hence a demand is (generally) always there for them.

 

So I was thinking we could add a new type of equippable item that is essentially only usable for a certain amount of time. By that I mean that once the item has been equipped, a timer is added to it and when that runs out the item is destroyed. The item could still be unequipped and traded once the timer is activated but it would show how long the item had remaining on the item details. This would keep a demand for the items as they would essential be consumed after the timer runs out.

 

Thoughts?

Love the idea Hoof

[Jenne]

One of the common themes of the request for new rewards throughout all aspects of the game seem to be that items lose their value over time as more of each of the items get added to the game. This is less so with consumable items (ie. potions) as they get used up and hence a demand is (generally) always there for them.

 

So I was thinking we could add a new type of equippable item that is essentially only usable for a certain amount of time. By that I mean that once the item has been equipped, a timer is added to it and when that runs out the item is destroyed. The item could still be unequipped and traded once the timer is activated but it would show how long the item had remaining on the item details. This would keep a demand for the items as they would essential be consumed after the timer runs out.

 

Thoughts?

I can't imagine how people with 50k stam+ will make the best out of it. And I find it disturbing that this is the only game that forging doesn't have risk, "Hell Forge" in FS term. Imagine 1 forge item has a x3 value vs of a non forged item if some risk is applied (You'll see FF items differently now).. So going back on topic I think once the item became broken as you say and can become frags, shouldn't it be also powered by frags? Using frags to add more time thus adding more value? Idk, just a thought.

[Hoofmaster]

Can you call it "Clock Items" ? XD

 

Lol no

[Hoofmaster]

I'd think a duration of between 7 and 14 days for an item once it's been equipped - it could be variable depending on the item though. They wouldn't replace existing Legendary items, but using (or combining) existing Legendary to invent them may be an idea.

[clock96]

Lol no

ok LOL

I'd think a duration of between 7 and 14 days for an item once it's been equipped - it could be variable depending on the item though. They wouldn't replace existing Legendary items, but using (or combining) existing Legendary to invent them may be an idea.

that is a very good duration

[yodamus]

Hoof i would like to personally thank you for all the effort your putting into the game!

ditto...much more direct involvement lately, quick involvement, repeated involvement..super kudos..keep up the good work

 

and an excellent idea you put forth, really like it

Edited by yodamus, 21 August 2015 - 21:35.

[rowbeth]

I'd think a duration of between 7 and 14 days for an item once it's been equipped - it could be variable depending on the item though.

 

That would make it a single use item for me. So as a hunting item it would need to sell for no more than a few FSP (especially if there were 9 of them) and give good bonuses---or remain ignored.

 

PVP defense might be more of a market, as it would get the full 2 weeks use.

 

So if you do go with this you would need to match stats to purpose carefully.

 

 

Personally, I think I'd prefer to see HCS spend its time on other things.

[Kbyte]

I think itens [non-ecpis] would only keep their value if only 1 set per player could be gotten [all other auto fragged => player staying with the best crafted one] and when that player don't need that set could sell, and sb that don't have that item would buy it [so no mass accumulation of itens from players with huge bp - they would only get different equips to sell once and not many of the same type dropping the equip value]

 

=> this would be an good way to hold iten's value

 

=> lower level itens which would not be used when player level up would not worth much [and which generally has more on the game], so player looking for frags would still buy it cheap [and when these sold low level equips "end" would still make low level legies good to who wish to get another set to sell later - making low level legies event to have an bit higher participation than now].

 

=> up to three guild tagged itens of the same set [this would also certainly would do good to all guilds]

 

=> that not applying to crystaline equips [since they are replaced reasonabily fast] (or max 3 crystaline sets if prefered) and to common, rare, unique equips which are generally are farmed to sell "as frags" and not to wear on arena / leveling / pvp. [SE equips are hard to get maybe don't need to limit them also]

 

=> During legies and crystaline events to allow players to sell those frags could allow just for the duration of the event them to get an maximum of 5 sets to sell [just an suggestion], so if there be an player farmining legies frags for example would be able to sell those frags, but after the event end it turns to 1 non- crystaline set  max again and the extras auto fragged

 

>>>> creating new "cursed equips" would only let the market even more full with equips an make old equips [which could still be used to arena/ leveling / pvp] to become even more obsolete and less valuable.

Edited by Kbyte, 22 August 2015 - 00:00.